Author Topic: Single Treble Rig  (Read 3224 times)

Offline Iceassin

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #30 on: Oct 26, 2018, 11:27 AM »
OK Iceassin, ask and ye shall receive.

1.) Yep, that on tippys but will run on an Automatic Fisherman I picked up off CL this year. Be fine on a deadstick rod as far as that goes. The hook is most important. Mine are 3x strong so they flex very little, if at all, helping it drive in on the set. Even if it hits bone it's more likely to slide down and catch meat rather than bend outward and spring off. I have the mother lode of #10s in the black nickel finish I got for a virtual song. For big baits or quick strike rigs for deads I'll upsize to #6 but that's as big as I've ever used. Iced fish up to 44" with both those hook sizes. Hooks are Eagle Claw 954L, not a sexy brand but a terrific hook.

Here's why small hooks rule:



Figure 3: Schematic drawing based on X-ray photo from cross-section of pike in the 7090 cm (about 28 36 inches) range.

Small hooks from size 4 and down will often be able to get a grip with the barb in the soft tissue (a) over the hard and virtually impenetrable jawbones (b). Very big hooks often get a grip around the jawbone and down through the soft mouth floor (c). On hooks over size 2 the barb will rarely get a grip in the soft tissue (a) over the jawbone.

Saw this mentioned in a recent In-Fisherman article. This pic and description came from here: https://peerj.com/articles/4744/

It's easy to see how large hooks with longer points or simply hooks with long points get less advantage from barbs depending on fish size and hook placement. For those of you that fish barbless by regulation or choice this doesn't matter as much.

2.) AFW uncoated 20# 7 strand in camo/brown. I twist connections so no crimps (Here's how). I am experimenting this year with some lightly coated 7x7 strand that can be tied with most conventional knots. The uncoated is cheap and dirt easy to work with but curls easily (which doesn't affect leader integrity) and can kink fairly easily as well which does affect leader integrity. The risk is easy to see and can be easily replaced. I keep the damaged ones and repurpose both hooks and swivels and just toss the wire. I expect the coated stuff to be more curl and kink resistant. It also seems more flexible.

My standard length is 18" so if it gets damaged near the hook end (most common) I can cut the hook off and re-twist slightly shorter in less than 2 minutes. I only use Dacron for backing; it stretches very little, much less than nylon and will not dry rot lasting for literally years on the spool. 30 -36# test is about right providing a balance of spool capacity and ease of handling.

3.) Not a question...

4.) I know a few guys that use single hook for pike but not many. I can't work up any enthusiasm for for the 12# fluoro. I always experiment with the latest/greatest in leaders looking for an edge. I have yet to find one. I've had 25# test fluoro cut clean before I could even get to the flag simply from the fish taking off through heavy weeds. Created enough drag that the pressure cut the leader. It actually happened twice in about 20 minutes. Experiment over, back to wire. Sure, fluoro is a superior choice to mono (hard or otherwise) and any superline (absolutely the worst choice) but still a very distant second to metal. BTW, titanium is a metal different from steel only in it's price and reduced flexibility. Remember even though fluoro is really tough it can still be cut (big difference between cutting and breaking) and leader diameter dictates how cut resistant it will be. More diameter = higher # test.

Lotsa folks got setups they swear by, including me. I know I've never had to swear AT mine. Curious, what is the average size fish you catch and the maximum size you might encounter? And which do you wish to target, numbers or size? FWIW, I have never been significantly or regularly outfished by fluorocarbon users for pike.

5.) I'm mostly a dorsal area guy. One exception is using the treble to it's full advantage to hook 2 minnows at the same time. One is usually tail hooked.

6.) Yes. I tote both if I can get 'em. You don't see many suckers here in the south part of the state (at least around us) they are more common up north. I know one dealer that keep some red-tails and when I'm close I get a few dozen and hoard them the last two beers.

Disclaimer: This is stuff that has worked for me over 40 some years of pike fishing. I know that at least some will disagree and that's OK. These are my opinions based on my actual experiences so it will be very difficult to change my mind. I DO like to experiment and do so frequently. Most often I wind up going back to doing what I've done for one reason or another. Sometimes I do get to learn something new  ;D

Ok...

1) Hooks: #10 Eagle Claw 945 3X Strong Black Nickel...check

2)Leader: AFW 20# 7 strand in camo/brown, about 18"...check
   Backing: Dacron...check

3) Right, not a question...just the facts, sir  ;D...check

4) "No fluoro for you"!! (or me)...check

5) So you put 2 minnows on 1 hook  :-\...check

6) Legend has it that shiners entice more strikes, suckers lure in the bigger ones. As for what I am after, quality or quantity? Depends on the lake. A couple that I am going to hit have a few but they are nice ones ( 30" plus) while the other has quantity that average what I call keepers (under 25")...check

7) You done well sir...lotsa good info. You forgot one though...size of sinker (actually I never specifically asked...but I am now...1/4 oz. ok?...check

Thanks again esox...you've been a big help. Maybe by the end of the season I'll be known as "esox_xtm II"  ;D 
"Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam circumspice."
 

Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #31 on: Oct 26, 2018, 11:44 AM »
Sorry, missed the sinker part. I prefer splitshot, the "non-removable" kind, the ones without ears. They will travel through some of the heaviest weeds without getting hung up or tearing off vegetation. Shotting can be a science all it's own. Smaller or less shot = more bait activity. Heavier or more shot tends to anchor your bait. What's the difference?

If fish are up and chewing they are often willing to chase. A lightly weighted minnow can only go so far but it will likely be chased down. At other times, and seemingly more often, pike are not willing to chase around for their morsel. A minnow struggling in place can be much more effective. A heavy shot or sinker can anchor your minnow like a jig. Shot spaced along the line makes for kind of an inbetween deal. Minnow is allowed to swim but got too far and drag too much weight along and it gets reined in.

The bulk of my shot use are #3/0 (.025 oz.) or #7 (.040 oz.) and I often use two. I also carry a contingency bag of those 3/8 oz. clip on bell sinkers. If I luck into some rambunctious chubs or giant shiners, like hand sized, I'll clip one of those on right to the swivel at the line/leader connection.
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Offline missoulafish

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #32 on: Oct 26, 2018, 01:53 PM »
I dont know squirt about tip up fishing but I use a 3/0 octopus hook, 50# flouro leader and I do as good or better than everyone around me...\_(ツ)_/


Offline Iceassin

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #33 on: Oct 26, 2018, 02:27 PM »
Sorry, missed the sinker part. I prefer splitshot, the "non-removable" kind, the ones without ears. They will travel through some of the heaviest weeds without getting hung up or tearing off vegetation. Shotting can be a science all it's own. Smaller or less shot = more bait activity. Heavier or more shot tends to anchor your bait. What's the difference?

If fish are up and chewing they are often willing to chase. A lightly weighted minnow can only go so far but it will likely be chased down. At other times, and seemingly more often, pike are not willing to chase around for their morsel. A minnow struggling in place can be much more effective. A heavy shot or sinker can anchor your minnow like a jig. Shot spaced along the line makes for kind of an inbetween deal. Minnow is allowed to swim but got too far and drag too much weight along and it gets reined in.

The bulk of my shot use are #3/0 (.025 oz.) or #7 (.040 oz.) and I often use two. I also carry a contingency bag of those 3/8 oz. clip on bell sinkers. If I luck into some rambunctious chubs or giant shiners, like hand sized, I'll clip one of those on right to the swivel at the line/leader connection.

Ok...gotcha. Just gonna take awhile longer to get the minnie down there. Ok Professor Pike, one more question and then class is dismissed. I usually run the bait about 1.5' off the bottom...pike generally look up :-\...or do I set it where I may be marking other (bait) fish ? Thanks again  ;)
"Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam circumspice."
 

Offline Iceassin

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #34 on: Oct 26, 2018, 02:28 PM »
I dont know squirt about tip up fishing but I use a 3/0 octopus hook, 50# flouro leader and I do as good or better than everyone around me...\_(ツ)_/

Hey missoulafish...who asked 'ya? :whistle: :roflmao:
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Offline missoulafish

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #35 on: Oct 26, 2018, 02:56 PM »
The fish gods;)

Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #36 on: Oct 26, 2018, 03:25 PM »
We can run three lines in WI so I vary them a bit until a pattern emerges. My favorite question is "How deep ya fishin'?". About a foot and a half off the bottom is good for the lowest though I sometimes have success dangling a dead with it's nose in the mud. Sometimes 6' off the bottom is right and sometimes in heavy weeds I might set one just under the ice.

You are correct pike look and feed up most of the time. If you set up off a dropoff fish may suspend at the depth of the break even though the water is much deeper. For example, if the break is at 9' and you're over 30' fish will often cruise off the break at that 9' depth.

Now before anyone gets the wrong idea I'm not a know-it all. I was asked to share what I do and I have done that, plus I like to babble. Guaranteed there's more than one way to skin a cat or catch a pike. Way too many variables involved to pin success on one single thing be it line, hook, bait or tipup brand. Heck, I'd say location is probably 80% of it. The "Hot Hole" syndrome is alive and well. I've seen folks fishing the silliest stuff still catch fish because they got that hole. Seen a guy catch a dozen all out of the same hole and never get a flag on his other two lines. What's that tell ya? Location, location, location...

As for missoula? There's one in every crowd  ;)2 And as far as the "fish gods" asking him for his opinion I don't recall inviting him to chip in...  :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: (Take it in the spirit it's given missoula, the door was open.  :P  If I really believed that I'd be so full of myself I couldn't live with me. What fun is it if you can't have a little fun?)
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Offline Iceassin

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #37 on: Oct 26, 2018, 03:42 PM »
We can run three lines in WI so I vary them a bit until a pattern emerges. My favorite question is "How deep ya fishin'?". About a foot and a half off the bottom is good for the lowest though I sometimes have success dangling a dead with it's nose in the mud. Sometimes 6' off the bottom is right and sometimes in heavy weeds I might set one just under the ice.

You are correct pike look and feed up most of the time. If you set up off a dropoff fish may suspend at the depth of the break even though the water is much deeper. For example, if the break is at 9' and you're over 30' fish will often cruise off the break at that 9' depth.

Now before anyone gets the wrong idea I'm not a know-it all. I was asked to share what I do and I have done that, plus I like to babble. Guaranteed there's more than one way to skin a cat or catch a pike. Way too many variables involved to pin success on one single thing be it line, hook, bait or tipup brand. Heck, I'd say location is probably 80% of it. The "Hot Hole" syndrome is alive and well. I've seen folks fishing the silliest stuff still catch fish because they got that hole. Seen a guy catch a dozen all out of the same hole and never get a flag on his other two lines. What's that tell ya? Location, location, location...

As for missoula? There's one in every crowd  ;)2 And as far as the "fish gods" asking him for his opinion I don't recall inviting him to chip in...  :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: (Take it in the spirit it's given missoula, the door was open.  :P  If I really believed that I'd be so full of myself I couldn't live with me. What fun is it if you can't have a little fun?)

Yup...3 lines in Michigan too...set up different depths most the time...will continue that approach.

Nope...you're right. I asked...you answered. Nobody here is full of anything...well...exce pt for "ol' what's his name". :whistle: But what do you expect? The guy lives in the friggin' mountains!!! Air ain't real plentiful up there.  ;D
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Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #38 on: Oct 26, 2018, 04:25 PM »
Yup...3 lines in Michigan too...set up different depths most the time...will continue that approach.

Nope...you're right. I asked...you answered. Nobody here is full of anything...well...exce pt for "ol' what's his name". :whistle: But what do you expect? The guy lives in the friggin' mountains!!! Air ain't real plentiful up there.  ;D

C'mon man, give the guy a break. He's just as entitled here as anyone else. Besides, like I said, I ain't too old to learn a new trick or two. No tellin' where they might come from either.
To fish or not to fish? That's a stupid question!




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Offline Iceassin

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #39 on: Oct 26, 2018, 04:34 PM »
C'mon man, give the guy a break. He's just as entitled here as anyone else. Besides, like I said, I ain't too old to learn a new trick or two. No tellin' where they might come from either.

Ok, ok...I'll lay off 'im...for awhile. He does have some good pointers as well. Guarenteed he's hoisted more toothies through a hole than I have.
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Offline missoulafish

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #40 on: Oct 26, 2018, 05:07 PM »
 :icefish: <- he might be using a 6# leader and 15/0  treble hook ;D

Offline Iceassin

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #41 on: Oct 26, 2018, 05:15 PM »
:icefish: <- he might be using a 6# leader and 15/0  treble hook ;D

 :roflmao:
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Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #42 on: Oct 26, 2018, 05:48 PM »
:icefish: <- he might be using a 6# leader and 15/0  treble hook ;D

I've seen the other way 'round. Veritable clothes line (tied direct to 36# black Dacron) and a #8 hook. Guy caught fish... Go figure.
To fish or not to fish? That's a stupid question!




"Life's too short to worry, life's too long to wait..."

Offline Iceassin

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #43 on: Oct 26, 2018, 06:06 PM »
Logging chain with a butcher's hook welded on the end. Rod is an 8' length of 2" PVC with eye bolts as guides. Reel is an old block and tackle I found at a garage sale...haven't missed yet.  :thumbsup:
"Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam circumspice."
 

 



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