Alwives???

[whitetail05401]

So what do people think of all the dead fish on the VT shores. VHS?? ?? ??. Hope not but they are saying the cold weather. Im sure this is not going to help with all the crap going on with bait.. Time will tell....jim s

[Smada_Evad]

This is why we try to keep exotic species out of VT's waters.  Alewives can not handle rapid temperature changes and thats what happens in these northern lakes in the winter, so they start to die off.
And the ones that they are finding are ones that have died and are frozen into the ice. They all seem to be the young of the year fish anyway.

DA
 

[METOVT]

My feeling is let them die. They are no good to the diet of game fish and a steady diet of them results in reproductive issues with trout and salmon. Smelts are the bait fish we need...

[Smada_Evad]

Definately!

[doogie494]

My feeling is let them die. They are no good to the diet of game fish and a steady diet of them results in reproductive issues with trout and salmon. Smelts are the bait fish we need...

While this may be true, Trout and Salmon are a Natural Predetor to the Alewive. 

Smada Evad, You say " This is why we try to keep exotic species out of VT's waters", Do you honestly think that fish give a damn about where the "State Line" is. Remeber Lake Champlain has many tributarys, VT, NY, Canada. The list goes on. While I do agree with you that introduction of species isn't always good, Unless you plan to dam up every lake and stream that runs into and affects other waterbodys you can only contain it for so long.  Both VHS and Alewives infected the Great Lakes via the St. Lawerence, and last i checked Champlain is connected.

[Smada_Evad]

Doggie,  I agree 100%...its only a matter of time...hey just look at the bait we are using now...do you think lakes like caspian and shadow lake have Arkansas Shiners...we are introducing exotics with this new bait law...go figure!

I think that we just have to be mindful about the bait we use and what the potential impacts may be...a little comon sence goes along way.

[doogie494]

I think that we just have to be mindful about the bait we use and what the potential impacts may be...a little comon sence goes along way.

Thats the problem though it is not JUST the bait.  What about Boaters,  How many F&G Officers do you see writing tickets to boaters who have not disinfected their boats? What about the Sail Boats that come up the St. Lawerence and into Lake Champlain?  All of this has effect on our other lakes and streams. Just like the Great Lakes, any river, stream, or inland lake directly associated with it is going to get infected.  I don't think we have a Choice on Champlain as it is such a high risk factor. I think we need to Concentrate on the Inlands that are not connected.

[Smada_Evad]

You bring up a good point...Champlain may be a lost cause that we will have to be mindful of...because your are right...the fisherman with bait are in the sites of wardens to be potential violators...and you bring up an excellent point regarding the big sail boats/cabin crusiers coming from who knows where and dumping bilge in the lake...i am surprised that we don't have more problems with invasive and exotics...or we just aren't seeing them yet.

I am with you....Lets protect our inland waters and preserve these lakes and ponds that we have some sort of "control" over. 

I am still concerned that with new bait regs we may be putting these inland waters in jeopardy...Time will tell...

[fishstalker]

I caught a few Alwives through the ice last week in mallets bay. The largest being 7"

[doogie494]

How can you say that someone brought alewives to Vermont?  Alewives are native to the Atlantic Ocean but migrate to freshwater rivers and lakes to spawn. They are able to adapt to live their entire lives in freshwater and have done so in the Great Lakes and many other inland waters across the country.  Many Lakes have had this problem and have increased their Trout and salmon stocking to rid the lake of them.  The only sucessfull lakes that have done this has also introduced Chinook Salmon who will chase the numbers down to near extinct.  Either way you look at it though you would have to shut off the passages from Lake Champlain to the St. lawerence (i forget the name of the river, Rocheau maybe?)and i believe that Lake St. Catherine is connected also to keep them out.

After reading those articles, its not a suprise that they are not catching the bigger Salmon.  They introduced an Exotic fish to combat an exotic fish. The salmon have done there job by chasing the alewives down and killing them off.  After those were gone they still had to eat, bye-bye smelt and so on.

http://www.uvm.edu/~seagrant/communications/assets/AlewifeSummary.pdf

[fishstalker]

I went to the Sand Bar this afternoon to check on the new ice. The shore line is COVERED in dead 2-4 inch alwives! The Cowbank was the worst. I saw probably a few thousand within a 100 yards of shoreline. The crows were having a ball though, picking them out of the ice.   

[doogie494]

So What you are saying is that the fish are to Smart to stay out of the locks and canals? Sure.  How do you think they made it to the Great Lakes then?  Here is your answer. "Alewives are perhaps best known for their invasion of the Great Lakes by using the Welland Canal to bypass Niagara Falls." Nuff said on that issue.  Just because they decided to swim by the Richileau River when they were first discovered in 1873 in Lake Ontario that they couldn't do it.  I will agree that someone MAY have introduced them, but they would have gotten here anyways.  Here is an excerpt from another study," Q: The St. Lawrence alewife population is ‘natural’. Is it not surprising alewife got to Lake Ontario? Did the 1873 report state that alewives were not found downstream in the St. Lawrence? Why didn’t they make it into Lake Champlain? Some have been found in the Richelieu River". 

I don't like them here anymore then you do, but we all have to deal with them.

[doogie494]

  If they did, why did they take 159 years to do it ? 

Assuming that Alwives have been around for thousands of years, they same way, but were discoverd in Ontario in 1873.  We could argue logistics all day long and not get anywhere.  If you correctly interpreted or comprehended what I wrote, then you would have seen that they would have LIKELY showed up anyway.

[doogie494]

I under stand that you are pissed off for alewives being in the like, I will not contest that.  Read this slow because i do not want you to misunderstand.  Yes They were not discoverd in Lake Ontario until 1873 but have been in The St. Lawrence and other waterbodys that connect to the ocean for thousands of years.  Then why didnt they get in a long time before 1873 in Lake Ontario either.  The First Welland canal opened in 1824 but it was 49 years later when they were discoverd in Ontario.  So going back to my original point while it could have taken a hundred years they W o u l dhave showed up here eventually anyways.  Now, before you start typing, read this again and again. Maybe you will finally see what i am saying.

[Fish Farmer]

Rumor has it that there was a bait dealer in Canada who was selling Alewives(illegally). His operation was on the Pike River, which flows into Missisquoi Bay. Apparently a pipe broke and his bait went into the river during the 1980's. Some alewives were found in the river after this had happened, but not an abundance as is seen now.

[Little Brown Dog]

And the plot thickens...   

[vtpike]

And so it does LBD!