Author Topic: Custom vs China  (Read 7356 times)

Offline alaskaruss1

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Re: Custom vs China
« Reply #60 on: Dec 23, 2014, 11:14 AM »
Different strokes for different folks all that matters is that the rod handles and performs to your liking.  For some it is off thr shelf and for others it is a custom rod. Bottom line is that everyone has their own preferences. This subject is starting to make my head  :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Offline tracksnorth

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Re: Custom vs China
« Reply #61 on: Dec 23, 2014, 12:47 PM »
If it's American made I'll spend the money
OEF vet Cco 2/505th PIR 82nd airborne division

Offline kasilofchrisn

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Re: Custom vs China
« Reply #62 on: Dec 23, 2014, 10:55 PM »
I make a lot of my own fishing tackle.
Jigs off all sizes and styles, Quickstrike rigs, Spinners etc.
I just got a wire former for Christmas so I can make my own Mepps and Vibrax type spinners.
Are they custom handcrafted lures and jigs? That is a big part of the question.
Do I cut out my own blades from sheet brass? No I do not. I buy factory stamped blades.
Do I make my own Hooks? No I buy those as well.
I turn scrap lead into jigs but I do not make my own lead molds. Though I have helped design some of them and I have a lot of CNC machined molds.
I even have jig designs nobody else in the world has that were custom cut for me out of aluminum.
But I fill them with factory made hooks and components. Pour in some molten scrap lead and finish them with factory made paints an eyes.
Does that mean I cannot call them handcrafted customs?
We all use some premade parts when we make things.
Even a guy who assembles a rod kit from Mudhole or Janns netcraft still has some input into how the rod is made where the eyelets are placed and what size they are etc. etc.
If you are going to say the guy who assembles a rod from stock parts is not making a true custom then he could also say the same for you if you did not make 100% of all your components.
Your Skull rod looks interesting(I'm personally not into the skull theme) but in reality you just put a cast resin skull on the handle of a rod, you did not hand make the blank or the eyelets did you? So you assembled a blank and eyelets from the store,used epoxies from the store,used a store bought thread etc. then added a cast resin(using resins and silicons that somebody like Alumilite made) skull to the handle?
Kinda like gluing a foam fish to the handle of a rod kit you assembled then calling it a custom design.
IMHO if you made a rod yourself then it is custom.
KasilofChrisN
"I listen to the voices in my tackle box"

Offline Stinkybaits

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Re: Custom vs China
« Reply #63 on: Dec 24, 2014, 02:25 AM »
I don't make the rods I just fish. Skull was first crafted then a mold was made then replicas made. In your example of making lures are you ordering it in as a kit like a model where all the parts come in one box and just replicating the picture on the outside in that case your just an assembler having fun putting a lure together replicating what someone else has already designed and put in a box to be sold as a kit. If your taking the kit but changing the design and puting your own personal touches on it thereby changing the design of it then it becomes custom. Sticking to the original design and just building it for what the designer originally intended it to be without any changes would be just an assembly at that point. Let's say Smith and Wesson offered a gun kit of the M&P15 I put it together. I assembled the gun and had fun doing it? Is that a custom? No its just an assembly. If I order in the parts myself from different manufacturers tricking it all out to the max then at that point it becomes custom. Your bending wires making your own version of spinner baits and other lures using parts from all over sounds pretty custom to me.

Offline kasilofchrisn

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Re: Custom vs China
« Reply #64 on: Dec 24, 2014, 04:51 AM »
Stinkbaits I'll try and answer your questions.
For my jigs I have a lot of different molds. But many are stock Do-It molds anybody can buy. I melt the lead add the components to the mold and cast the jigs. Then I clean them up and paint them. But the stuff is available for anybody to buy and duplicate what I make right from Do-It ,Jann's netcraft,or Barlows tackle etc..
I do have some molds I had designed and CNC machined just for me. Nobody else in the world has the mold so I do consider it a custom jig.
But are jigs from a stock do-it mold custom? I paint them how ever you want and can use different hooks if the mold allows. But so can anybody else.
On my spinners they are not kits. I buy the wire and bend it on my wire former. The components are separate and are not a kit though kits are available.
But I don't make most of the parts I buy them then assemble them. I will be making and painting some lead lure bodies for some of these though.
So while it isn't exactly a kit I will be buying most of the components that are made somewhere else and I just assemble them just as if it were a kit.
Sometimes I will be replicating a store bought lure that has proven to work in the past even if there isn't a specific kit for that lure.
Does it matter if I buy a kit or if I buy the exact same components separately and then assemble them?
Seems to me you are making that distinction yet others feel differently.
What if I add a second bead that the original Mepps spinner does not have does that make it custom or just an extra bead on a spinner?
KasilofChrisN
"I listen to the voices in my tackle box"

Offline Stinkybaits

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Re: Custom vs China
« Reply #65 on: Dec 24, 2014, 07:05 AM »
In My book I'd say the molds you buy replicate a product possibly but you change the consistency of the plastics making them softer or harder to suit your needs. You also paint your own colors or possibly offering anglers to ask you for a certain color and you make it for them? Crank baits for instance. I have a buddy that does quite well buying big o crank baits putting custom paint jobs on them and some Gamakatsu hooks and they crush bass with them. A pair of mustang cars both identical except one is factory stock paint job and the second custom painted with a unique color blend with added flaming horse on the sides. I'd call that still a Mustang with a custom paint job. If they sent me the factory mustang in all the same parts they use and I wanted to have my mechanic to build it himself I'd say that's just a stock mustang that my mechanic built. What custom to me is about people wanting to create knew ideas or expand on those that already exist. People approach them with their ideas or needs than the custom guys can create it or willing to try. Approaching a big company asking them to expand on your idea or build something new you had better be part of their R&D team or its not going to be affordable and they wouldn't even give you the time of day unless your KVD, Genz or some of the other legends. I'm glad there's guys like yourself doing your own thing or taking already made products to different levels even of it is just adding a bead. Adding that one bead with a certain color can make a huge difference at times. At least it does with Steel Head in the St Joe! L





Offline rangerbill

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Re: Custom vs China
« Reply #66 on: Dec 24, 2014, 09:35 AM »
Back to the "Custom vs. China" debate and the "Merican Made" comment... this is a global economy which leads me to question which "Merican Made" truck Hawkeye drives and how many Mexican parts it contains.  At one point in time my driveway contained a Ford Mustang, Chrysler Town and Country, Chevy Silverado and a Honda Odyssey.  Which one was made in the US?  The Honda.  The rest were made in Canada.  Which one had the most American made parts?  The Honda.  I sense rod envy and a confused Hawkeye.

Offline Stinkybaits

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Re: Custom vs China
« Reply #67 on: Dec 24, 2014, 10:10 AM »
Good point ranger. Personally I'm thankful for whatever companies choose America to assemble the finished product in. My grandparents both were able to graduate high school and go right into the workforce without the college debt. Nice to graduate and have choices like they did back then. At least good paying choices.

Offline Sherlock

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Re: Custom vs China
« Reply #68 on: Dec 26, 2014, 01:01 PM »
It seems to me that the general consensus is that most of the equipment we use is imported from a foreign country and mostly from China. But the thread wasn't about China made vs. American made it was about China vs. custom. And in this topic I think custom means assembled in America by an American craftsman that is likely an experienced ice fisherman that has the passion to create something even if the raw materials come from another country. I have fished with the over-the-counter equipment my entire life. Only recently have I started to acquire some custom equipment. A lot of what everyone says is true in some form or another. If it works for you and you accomplish what you set out to do on the ice that's great. Sure I can catch fish with a China rod the same as I can with a custom Ryno Rod, but I think it's pretty neat to say that I caught my limit of fish with a rod custom built by my best friend Ryno. For me there are differences both big and small that can be made in the design of a custom assembled rod to tweak the equipment to better fit my fishing style. And at the end of the day if ice fishing and the manner in which you catch fish makes you feel happy, then you truly are enjoying your life. There is no greater feeling than a warm heart on some cold water!!! Peace.

Offline alaskaruss1

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Re: Custom vs China
« Reply #69 on: Dec 26, 2014, 01:16 PM »
This thread has turned into a lesson in semantics.  :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Offline WaterFox

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Re: Custom vs China
« Reply #70 on: Dec 26, 2014, 05:27 PM »
I have been making my own rods for open water and ice for a couple years now.  I started so I could get the quality rods for my boat I needed to match lures without spending so much money.  I have noticed the biggest difference when it comes to the backbone of the rod.  A mass produced rod will just have the guides wrapped on at a certain spacing.  A custom builder will find the true spine of the rod which gives it the most strength while fighting a fish.  If you have ever had a pole break there is a good chance it was assembled off the side of the spine.  When it come to ice rods I have been able to make rods that have a tip soft enough to feel the slightest hit yet have the back to jack a pike and never worry about it failing.  More than anything I enjoy doing it.  I have made some for friends and never for more than cost.  I would rather catch 1 gill on something I made and tell no one but my wife than catch 50 dinks on a factory rod and tell everyone how good I am.  Chinese or American we all need tools for our hobby and the important thing is that we enjoy every minute we have doing it.

Offline IM-POUNDING- R -U

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Re: Custom vs China
« Reply #71 on: Dec 26, 2014, 05:34 PM »
Some people stay with the flock[china] and others don't [custom]   

10% of the fisherman catch 90% of the fish .....im a 10% are you?

Offline cold carpenter

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Re: Custom vs China
« Reply #72 on: Dec 26, 2014, 05:40 PM »
How about custom born out of necessity? With five kids, I have had no shortage of broken soft water rods.
A custom handle spun on the lathe in whatever wood I choose and my choice of length and stiffness based on what I want vs. what the boys broke the previous summer. With some care and a sharp exacto knife even the eyes are adjustable!
I may be lacking  sensitivity compared to some, but rare is the day I don't bring home at least dinner.
Blanks by berkley, shimano, eagle claw, shakespear, etc..
And the best part- every single rod is free except for the reels. I have enough broken rods left to keep my kids fishing well into their 30's and have enough ice rods for our entire family to fish.
These three are my go to choice for perch and panfish. a little worn after nearly ten years, but reliable as hell!




Offline tgskidoo

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Re: Custom vs China
« Reply #73 on: Dec 27, 2014, 10:43 PM »
well said stinkybait.  I'm a firm believer I getting custom rods.  started out with cheap zebco poles and reels to last bought  St Croix granted not custom but will be custom open water rods. Just bought 2 Gaffight rods and are just nothing like big store rods.  Will be getting a Bricker micro liner next year missed the boat getting one this year I think.  I want to start learning how to build rod as of now doing some ice bugs.

Offline Hawkeyefish

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Re: Custom vs China
« Reply #74 on: Dec 29, 2014, 02:27 PM »
Back to the "Custom vs. China" debate and the "Merican Made" comment... this is a global economy which leads me to question which "Merican Made" truck Hawkeye drives and how many Mexican parts it contains.  At one point in time my driveway contained a Ford Mustang, Chrysler Town and Country, Chevy Silverado and a Honda Odyssey.  Which one was made in the US?  The Honda.  The rest were made in Canada.  Which one had the most American made parts?  The Honda.  I sense rod envy and a confused Hawkeye.

My SUV was built in Germany, 100% from the ground up...I can actually pop the hood and see the name of the one man who built the engine, in fact (that's custom). All except the casting, I suppose, which is still done on-site. And there's not much rod envy, as I can probably trade that truck for two or three of your "custom" companies. This isn't a money thing; but, I get how you'd take it there...follows trend with you guys and your posts.

You're still seemingly missing the point, although the guy below your thread gets it...it's not us vs. them on where it's made. This is about the elitist attitude that a company building overseas, versus a company buying every part overseas and gluing them together here, is somehow inferior. When in fact, to counteract Stinky's point, I'm fairly certain those bigger companies provide hundreds, if not thousands more in the way of employment. 

Let's just take those big guys building ice overseas: St. Croix (save that high end series), 13 Fishing, Clam, Frabil...and how many employees do you think those four have, or lives they touch in shipping to big box and every retailer, than the "custom" creators of the most magnificent rods on the planet? Not to mention, I would imagine any one of those companies sells in one series, maybe one sku, what a "custom" company does in an entire season. Talk about economy boosters.

...you're basically insulting 98% of the ice fishing population with the custom glued in the US is king crap. Nothing wrong with being the 2% I suppose, must be nice up there on your perch. Just be sure to not poop on every average Joe on your ascension into ice fishing glory. 

Offline missoulafish

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Re: Custom vs China
« Reply #75 on: Dec 29, 2014, 04:00 PM »
This will be entertaining.....

Offline bryantukkah

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Re: Custom vs China
« Reply #76 on: Jan 03, 2015, 04:22 PM »
My SUV was built in Germany, 100% from the ground up...I can actually pop the hood and see the name of the one man who built the engine, in fact (that's custom). All except the casting, I suppose, which is still done on-site. And there's not much rod envy, as I can probably trade that truck for two or three of your "custom" companies. This isn't a money thing; but, I get how you'd take it there...follows trend with you guys and your posts.

You're still seemingly missing the point, although the guy below your thread gets it...it's not us vs. them on where it's made. This is about the elitist attitude that a company building overseas, versus a company buying every part overseas and gluing them together here, is somehow inferior. When in fact, to counteract Stinky's point, I'm fairly certain those bigger companies provide hundreds, if not thousands more in the way of employment. 

Let's just take those big guys building ice overseas: St. Croix (save that high end series), 13 Fishing, Clam, Frabil...and how many employees do you think those four have, or lives they touch in shipping to big box and every retailer, than the "custom" creators of the most magnificent rods on the planet? Not to mention, I would imagine any one of those companies sells in one series, maybe one sku, what a "custom" company does in an entire season. Talk about economy boosters.

...you're basically insulting 98% of the ice fishing population with the custom glued in the US is king crap. Nothing wrong with being the 2% I suppose, must be nice up there on your perch. Just be sure to not poop on every average Joe on your ascension into ice fishing glory.

Pretty sure way more than 98% of the ice fishing population really could care less.  Global economics huh?  Are you serious?  Ice fisherman arguing economics... Unbelievable.  I wasn't expecting humor, but thats downright laughable.

Offline Hawkeyefish

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Re: Custom vs China
« Reply #77 on: Jan 05, 2015, 11:03 AM »
Pretty sure way more than 98% of the ice fishing population really could care less.  Global economics huh?  Are you serious?  Ice fisherman arguing economics... Unbelievable.  I wasn't expecting humor, but thats downright laughable.

I'm confused...

Are you saying 98% of the ice fishing population are too dumb for global economics? That the two guys who started the topic on grandmas graduating and getting jobs or buying Hondas built in America shouldn't have done so? Or that you're just incapable of stringing together coherent sentences in anything more than texting on your phone form to participate in said discussion?

I'm with Mizzoulah, I thought this would be entertaining. But, it seems when you put the boys in their place, there's not much left to say...

Let me do my best G. Dub


Offline meat sticks

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Re: Custom vs China
« Reply #78 on: Jan 10, 2015, 06:55 AM »
Interesting thread.  I have several custom  fishing poles made by various local builders, mainly steelhead rods.  The thought of shelling out even a hundred dollars for an ice fishing pole makes me gag a little.  However, last I checked we all lived in free countries where a guy can spend his loot on whatever he likes, so even though I'd never spend a nickel on a custom ice fishing pole, I guess anyone else is free to do so!

Offline DawntoDusk

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Re: Custom vs China
« Reply #79 on: Jan 10, 2015, 10:50 PM »
Just my two cents.... but what's the big difference? I think you catch more fish by being a better skilled fisherman, not by the amount you spend on your toys. I know guys who go out with nothing more than a stick with a line and catch fish all day. Now don't get me wrong, having nice gear helps, but if you think it's going to make you a better fisherman, you're wrong.
Tight lines everyone.

 



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