You might find this interesting

[whitetips]

http://neblandvm.outdoornebraska.gov/2014/02/blinded-science-february-24-2014/

Daryl B.

[Uplandhuntr]

http://neblandvm.outdoornebraska.gov/2014/02/blinded-science-february-24-2014/

Daryl B.

Daryl,

I know I always seem contrary, but just a straight shooter and nothing personal to you.

Seems like the NGPC has adopted the SDSU info from the National Grasslands to the Sandhills (too bad we can't use some UNL folks out there to do the same thing), and has trout rearing down to a science.

When can we start thinking outside the box with some innovative research of our own?  Or try something new.

Don't get me wrong, love science, but I know some folks in NE are doing things that shouldn't work that are.

What's say we become leaders rather than followers.

Seems that NGPC REACTS a bunch, but doesn't do much for thinking to strive for new.

Just a random thought that won't leave my brain....sorry....

UH

[ClearCreek]

Daryl,

I know I always seem contrary, but just a straight shooter and nothing personal to you.

Seems like the NGPC has adopted the SDSU info from the National Grasslands to the Sandhills (too bad we can't use some UNL folks out there to do the same thing), and has trout rearing down to a science.

When can we start thinking outside the box with some innovative research of our own?  Or try something new.

Don't get me wrong, love science, but I know some folks in NE are doing things that shouldn't work that are.

What's say we become leaders rather than followers.

Seems that NGPC REACTS a bunch, but doesn't do much for thinking to strive for new.

Just a random thought that won't leave my brain....sorry....

UH

Uplander:

Can you explain what you mean by the two statements you made:

What are some Nebr. folks doing that should not work??

What so you mean by being leaders rather than followers??

Just curious..........

ClearCreek

[Uplandhuntr]

Uplander:

Can you explain what you mean by the two statements you made:

What are some Nebr. folks doing that should not work??

What so you mean by being leaders rather than followers??

Just curious..........

ClearCreek

Thanks for the questions, I should have been more detailed, but didn't want to put the same info out there for those that follow such links.

There are folks in eastern NE, central NE, and western NE that have private ponds that have had success with several species of fish that have been said 'it just doesn't work in southeast NE', such as small mouth bass, yellow perch, huge bluegill, etc.

Yes there are a ton of variables, but I am sad that it comes down to what the "public" expects rather than real biology.

To answer your second question, the wildlife and fisheries management has been totally responsive in NE (even with public input....look at the effect of EHD to deer populations of this state compared to our neighbors that actually adjusted ongoing and outstanding tags rather than 'we will wait to see how this harvest is to adjust next year'.)  Really?  Doesn't take a degree to do that, more of a politician and actuary.

Let's start looking at wildlife and fisheries and parks in this state and be proactive to the people footing the bill, not politics.

Sorry for the long response, you asked......lol

UH

[ClearCreek]

Thanks for the questions, I should have been more detailed, but didn't want to put the same info out there for those that follow such links.

There are folks in eastern NE, central NE, and western NE that have private ponds that have had success with several species of fish that have been said 'it just doesn't work in southeast NE', such as small mouth bass, yellow perch, huge bluegill, etc.

Yes there are a ton of variables, but I am sad that it comes down to what the "public" expects rather than real biology.

To answer your second question, the wildlife and fisheries management has been totally responsive in NE (even with public input....look at the effect of EHD to deer populations of this state compared to our neighbors that actually adjusted ongoing and outstanding tags rather than 'we will wait to see how this harvest is to adjust next year'.)  Really?  Doesn't take a degree to do that, more of a politician and actuary.

Let's start looking at wildlife and fisheries and parks in this state and be proactive to the people footing the bill, not politics.

Sorry for the long response, you asked......lol

UH

Uplandhuntr:

So if I am understanding you correctly you are saying that because some pond owners in southeast Nebr. have had success with smallmouth bass or yellow perch then that should be the recommendation for all pond stocking in that area?  Following your logic, I know of a pond in northeast Nebraska that supported trout, at least for a few years, so should Game and Parks recommend trout stocking in all ponds in the northeast part of the state? 

And, that Nebraska should have shut down the deer hunting in the middle of the season because there was deer dying of EHD?  The state I live in had some deer dying of EHD last fall, but it was real "spotty", some areas had pretty high mortalities while other areas there was few or no EHD deer deaths.  To shut down the hunting would have really upset a lot of hunters.

Just because the G&P does not do what you want does not mean they are doing things all wrong.

ClearCreek

[Uplandhuntr]

Uplandhuntr:

So if I am understanding you correctly you are saying that because some pond owners in southeast Nebr. have had success with smallmouth bass or yellow perch then that should be the recommendation for all pond stocking in that area?  Following your logic, I know of a pond in northeast Nebraska that supported trout, at least for a few years, so should Game and Parks recommend trout stocking in all ponds in the northeast part of the state? 

And, that Nebraska should have shut down the deer hunting in the middle of the season because there was deer dying of EHD?  The state I live in had some deer dying of EHD last fall, but it was real "spotty", some areas had pretty high mortalities while other areas there was few or no EHD deer deaths.  To shut down the hunting would have really upset a lot of hunters.

Just because the G&P does not do what you want does not mean they are doing things all wrong.

ClearCreek

I've said my thoughts.  You keep going if you want to.

[whitetips]

I am not going to add much to this discussion, it is a good discussion.  I just want to clarify one thing, we have never said that smallmouth bass nor yellow perch cannot work in southeast Nebraska.  Given the right habitat they can.  Fifty-some years ago we learned that smallmouth bass can do very well in small waters throughout Nebraska as long as they do not have to compete with largemouth bass in those waters.  We have a handful of public waters where we can pursue that smallmouth bass option, but most of them it is easier and more appropriate to go with largemouth bass.  Likewise on yellow perch; yep, I am aware of some private waters even in southeast Nebraska, most of them pits or waters where they have a supply of cool and clean water, aquatic vegetation and are able to control the species mix, where they can make a go of yellow perch.  Again, we may have a handful of public waters where we could do the same thing, but we may not have the resources to invest in the intensive management it would take to pull that off (for example, if we decided to manage a public pit for smallmouth bass and yellow perch would we be able to control access, control who was going in and out, and make sure they did not stock some bluegill and largemouth bass for us?).

I am fully aware that some will think that is excuse-making and we ain't being very innovative, but there are some realities to what can and cannot be done.  We try to produce a variety of quality fishing opportunities according to what the habitats will support while making the best use of our anglers dollars.  I will agree, there are some different, innovative things it would be nice to do, and we will do some of them, but we are not going to be able to chase every "crazy" idea.

Daryl B.

P.S.  We have been doing research in recent years in conjunction with Nebraska-Kearney on yellow perch in Nebraska pits.  Maybe we do know a thing or two about that?  When we have some results from that research I will share it too.  I can tell you right now that largemouth bass really, really like to eat yellow perch.

[hardh2ofish]

Why is there such an emphasis on raising trout in this state?  Does it make rookie fishermen feel better about themselves if they catch one?  They are kind of expensive to raise to 11-13" aren't they?   They arent good to eat.  I'd like to use them for pike bait but I don't want to get caught doing it.  They are clogging up my creek chub holes and I'm kinda tired of it.   Special thanks to the bucket biologist who stocked merrit with pike by the way.  I'm having a blast this winter and for see many great winters to come. 
I don't even know what to say about the conversation cc and uh are having.  Sounds like two dudes who have all the answers yet I don't  have one bit of usefull information that I come away with.  Proactive and innovative?   Neither of you have said what about except maybe adjust deer tags on the fly.  What do you two want that would be new?  Daryl I want to see the state raise less trout and introduce peackok bass.   There that would be innovative. Now I won't have to go to mexico or south america.

[whitetips]

Why is there such an emphasis on raising trout in this state?  Does it make rookie fishermen feel better about themselves if they catch one?  They are kind of expensive to raise to 11-13" aren't they?   They arent good to eat.  I'd like to use them for pike bait but I don't want to get caught doing it.  They are clogging up my creek chub holes and I'm kinda tired of it.   Special thanks to the bucket biologist who stocked merrit with pike by the way.  I'm having a blast this winter and for see many great winters to come. 
I don't even know what to say about the conversation cc and uh are having.  Sounds like two dudes who have all the answers yet I don't  have one bit of usefull information that I come away with.  Proactive and innovative?   Neither of you have said what about except maybe adjust deer tags on the fly.  What do you two want that would be new?  Daryl I want to see the state raise less trout and introduce peackok bass.   There that would be innovative. Now I won't have to go to mexico or south america.

The catchable-size rainbows we raise are very cheap and easy to raise.  We stock those fish in urban and parks waters around the state because they are relatively easy to catch and we hope that there are a bunch of kids and beginning anglers that take advantage of that and "get hooked on fishing".  Some folks like to eat 'em too, especially if they are prepared properly (I like my trout smoked, the hardest part is getting them lit ).

Go ahead and use 'em for pike bait.  As long as they are legally captured and you are within the legal limits and following all the other rules, go for it.  You could legally catch trout and use them dead as bait in a lot of places; would not be a bad idea either.

I doubt the pike in Merritt came from bucket biologists.  The sandhills have lots of pike and when the water levels are high there are a lot of fish that move around.  There have been a few pike in Merritt for a long, long time, a few more right now.

Sorry, don't know of any peacock bass habitat in Nebraska,

Daryl B.

[hardh2ofish]

The way I read the law though, you can use legal gamefish and or parts of those fish for bait .   But only in the waters from which they came.  I'm going to have to do some more checking into it.

[Uplandhuntr]

The catchable-size rainbows we raise are very cheap and easy to raise.  We stock those fish in urban and parks waters around the state because they are relatively easy to catch and we hope that there are a bunch of kids and beginning anglers that take advantage of that and "get hooked on fishing".  Some folks like to eat 'em too, especially if they are prepared properly (I like my trout smoked, the hardest part is getting them lit ).

Go ahead and use 'em for pike bait. As long as they are legally captured and you are within the legal limits and following all the other rules, go for it.  You could legally catch trout and use them dead as bait in a lot of places; would not be a bad idea either.

I doubt the pike in Merritt came from bucket biologists.  The sandhills have lots of pike and when the water levels are high there are a lot of fish that move around.  There have been a few pike in Merritt for a long, long time, a few more right now.

Sorry, don't know of any peacock bass habitat in Nebraska,

Daryl B.

The way I read the law though, you can use legal gamefish and or parts of those fish for bait .   But only in the waters from which they came.  I'm going to have to do some more checking into it.

I highlighted the important parts for you.

[Uplandhuntr]

Uplandhuntr:
And, that Nebraska should have shut down the deer hunting in the middle of the season because there was deer dying of EHD?  The state I live in had some deer dying of EHD last fall, but it was real "spotty", some areas had pretty high mortalities while other areas there was few or no EHD deer deaths. To shut down the hunting would have really upset a lot of hunters.
ClearCreek

Deer were dead long before the season started in Nebraska.  While scouting, it was not unusual for it to smell like the stench of dead critters along waterways.  South Dakota, which didn't get hit as hard as Nebraska, offered refunds and cancelled late season in areas affected.  Much better, in my opinion, than taking the money and saying, 'we will just have to see how the season ends up'.  Proactive response vs. reactive.

I was more upset to see 75% of the deer lost in this part of the herd with no acknowledgement from the agency that manages this state's resources.  They averaged it out to 20+% statewide, don't think that wildlife biologists don't know how to use statistics to take the edge off areas that were really hit hard with those that didn't show any dead.

Not to mention several more deer were found dead harvesting corn in my local area this year.

But I digress, sorry I still didn't offer any informative info for those that don't find this interesting.  Nothing to see here, move along....

[Uplandhuntr]

Daryl B.

P.S.  We have been doing research in recent years in conjunction with Nebraska-Kearney on yellow perch in Nebraska pits.  Maybe we do know a thing or two about that?  When we have some results from that research I will share it too.  I can tell you right now that largemouth bass really, really like to eat yellow perch.

Public or private pits?  Thanks for sticking with this, I know you get hit with a lot of this over and over.

[hardh2ofish]

I highlighted the important parts for you.

Would you please go to page 17 of the handbook and highlight the second paragraph that says "sport fish may he used for bait: if they are captured from that body of water by hook and line and used at that body of water.  All length and bag limits apply for that body of water."

[Martinezb9]

You can do anything you want as long as you are following all the rules and regulations.

[doneinne]

Yes they have to be used in the same water they were caught in.  It doe not distinguish between dead or alive.

[hardh2ofish]

You can do anything you want as long as you are following all the rules and regulations.

Really?

[hardh2ofish]

I called one of the game wardens in our area today.   The law as it reads right now says that you can not use sport fish for bait in any water other than that which it came from.  Be it dead or alive.

[whitetips]

Public or private pits?  Thanks for sticking with this, I know you get hit with a lot of this over and over.

Public.

Daryl B.

[whitetips]

So that's what sdsu and G&P were doing on Pelican those years and told us they were harvesting zooplankton into big glass jars. Hmmm?

No "fish98" we were out there with black boats, black helicopters, and black trucks hauling all the fish from Pelican back "east", just like you thought.

Actually, through the research conducted by those "interlopers" from South Dakota State we know a lot about the Pelican Lake ecosystem from the water quality, water chemistry, right up through primary productivity, plankton, a bunch of creepy/crawly aquatic critters, right through the panfish and top-of-the-food-chain, apex predators.  Our sandhill lakes are very unique aquatic ecosystems; we know a lot more about them now, but still have a lot of questions!

Daryl B.

[whitetips]

I called one of the game wardens in our area today.   The law as it reads right now says that you can not use sport fish for bait in any water other than that which it came from.  Be it dead or alive.

From page 17 of the 2013-2014 Fishing Guide:

"Sport fish may be used for bait if:
•    they have been acquired legally from a licensed aquaculturist or a nonresident fish dealer. The angler must keep a legible receipt or invoice from the dealer listing the date, seller’s name and address, and number and size of each species sold.
•    they are captured using hook and line and used at the body of water from which they were captured. Anglers must follow both the length and bag limits for that body of water."

Have your warden contact Lincoln and get this straightened out.

Daryl B.

[hardh2ofish]

Do you mean by straightening this out .  That they need to change the law?   He did say that he expects to see the law ,in the near fututure, read to where you can use sport fish in other bodies of water.  Dead or in part.   You probably will not be able to use sport fish alive in a different body of water.

[Mr Merritt]

So how about some discussion of what is working!  Looking at the stocking report for Merritt some things are worth high lighting.  In 2011 a much greater number than the normal 1,400 12" muskies (stocked every other year) were stocked in the early spring.  3,547 12" muskies were reported stocked.  Last year with the limited time I had on the water I caught 6 muskies in the 30-32 inch range, presumably from the 2011 stocking (Daryl, would they grow that much in 3 years?).  If so, would it be beneficial and financially feasible to bump the normal stocking number from 1,400 to 3,000 every other year?
Also in  June 2010, 18,465 2" white bass were stocked. In June of 2011 61,184 2" white bass were added.   Last season I caught and released more white bass of 10-11 inches than I can ever remember.  We have always had a few white bass in Merritt that grew to the impressive size of 2-3 pounds, but without stocking, the numbers of white bass present always remained very low.  I thought that the white bass stockings would continue but according to the reports on the G&P website none have been stocked since 2011.  I really hope G&P will continue to stock white bass in Merritt.  Besides the fact that they pretty quickly reach very good size and provide a really good bite during the hottest months of summer when other species such as walleye and pike slow down, if their numbers eventually became significant, they could possibly provide an open water predator to help control young of the year alewife numbers, potentially helping our fall walleye bite.
  Multiple stockings of 10" channel catfish have augmented Merritt's trophy fishery with numbers of "eating size" cats.  Hopefully this will encourage the release of our big cats and further enhance an already exceptional channel cat fishery.
  Also in 2011 just under 20,000 2" smallmouth bass were stocked.  No surprise the smallmouth fishing improved somewhat.  With smallmouth topping my personal favorite fish list I hope that additional stockings are planned for the future.  One suggestion.  There is a really heavy population of smallmouth bass, most running about 8 to 11 inches, in the canal behind the Game and Parks Office in North Platte.  When I was a member of the local bass club there our help was enlisted in catching these undersized smallies which were temporarily held in 5 gallon buckets before being transferred to a hatchery truck and held in the raceway at the hatchery. They were later stocked in local lakes mostly along the I-80 corridor.  With only 10-15 fishermen we were able to catch between 4,000 to 8,000 smallmouths in a day or two of fishing. This was done for 2 years during the mid-80's.  Besides benefitting lakes these better sized fish were stocked into, the average size of smallmouths in the canal also improved, likely due to relieving the overcrowded numbers present in the canal.
  The walleye stocking program at Merritt is also a well documented success.  Annual stockings of 140-150 thousand fingerlings have resulted in putting Merritt at the top of Nebraska's walleye waters year after year.  Since studies have documented little to no natural reproduction at Merritt, all credit is given to the G&P.
  Far too often fishermen jump to the conclusion that fish stockings are the magic bullet that that guarantees good fishing at their favorite lakes.  That is faulty thinking and often results in undue criticism of the agencies responsible for stocking. There are situations where stocking is both appropriate and needed to maintain and improve fishing.  I feel the examples of the stocking programs at Merritt listed above definitely fall into the beneficial category and wanted to complement and thank our Game and Parks Fisheries division for the great results we are seeing.

[whitetips]

Do you mean by straightening this out .  That they need to change the law?   He did say that he expects to see the law ,in the near fututure, read to where you can use sport fish in other bodies of water.  Dead or in part.   You probably will not be able to use sport fish alive in a different body of water.

You cannot use a sport fish alive in another body of water now unless it is one that was purchased from a licensed bait vendor.

And you can use dead or parts of sport fish now.

Daryl B.