What,s everyones oppion on the live bait issues

[stringer]

I called warrensburg today and effective now there will be no live bait removed from ant body of water to another unless purchased certified which is fine but the areas I fish recquire smelt or alewives supposedly you can use dead bait I have a commercial license and if I don't obey this new law I may get a warning and may not because I have already been informed and alot of people have not.  I personally have no problem with them trying to stop VHS but I might as well sell my stick equipment and rely on the vex. They are not sure what they are going to do with the hudson river and tribs as far as herring for live bait???  Iagree with the other post a bout lake Ontario keep letting the comm. boats pollute our waters and destroy or fishing FREE country my but only to money and power the rest of us are just to pay our way !!!

[PWR BAIT]

My opinion is i think everyone should obey the law regardless wether its dead or alive. Are fisheries are very important to all of us and we should not jeopardize them in any way shape or form.

[perchking4ever]

i agree with PWR BAIT 100%

[stringer]

I'll second that or third ,don't worry i'm not trying to pull any fast ones believe me to much to lose just stating what i've found out lately ,this is really messing up my normal habits that were totally legal until NOW . just wanted to see how this was effecting the rest of you guys.

[KingFisher1]

Personally, I will not do anything that might spread this disease to any place that I will be fishing. I agree we must protect our waters. I do' however have a big problem with the 100 minnow limit. I live in an area where there are no bait shops nearby, so I like to make one trip and buy a few hundred at a time, keeping them in a tank in my basement. This law will prevent me from doing that, and I can't run to the bait store every time I want to fish. If you are getting certified minnows, why does it matter how many of them you have? Certified = Certified.

[hunters08]

Personally, I will not do anything that might spread this disease to any place that I will be fishing. I agree we must protect our waters. I do' however have a big problem with the 100 minnow limit. I live in an area where there are no bait shops nearby, so I like to make one trip and buy a few hundred at a time, keeping them in a tank in my basement. This law will prevent me from doing that, and I can't run to the bait store every time I want to fish. If you are getting certified minnows, why does it matter how many of them you have? Certified = Certified.

I agree with you 100 percent!!!!!!!!! when i am perch fishing on lake erie sometimes i go through 200 emeralds so now i have to leave the hot bite and drive my boat back to shore go home get more minnows and drive back out to the hot bite that will no longer be hot and waste 20 dollars in gas what a joke!!!! My opinion on the certified bait is also a joke go look at crayfishes post he has a half million minnnows in a tank to sell.He only has to have 60 minnows tested for the whole half million to be certified!!!!! 

[AugustWest]

BOTTOM LINE...Do your part not to spread the disease

We all used to fish with baits that we trapped ourselves as kids...Right?

Times have changed...as our passing of generations...so do laws to accommodate population!

Get used to it...we haven't seen distruction yet

[crayfishbob]

What my supply compared to real baitfish people that are going through this is less than 10% in comaprision. How about 60 fish vs 10,000 lbs ?  thats like 30,000,000 minnows, one test.

You should read and learn about this before you make any statements. Everything I write here is not only documented somewheres, or I can prove. VHS is very similar to rabies, with the exeption it spreads by cohabitation via urine. The state tests waters within a few yards of where I catch these minnows. Do you think for a minute that the state would miss it ? Or I'd see minnows bumming out after almost 8 weeks being cohabitated ?

I would worry about the outlaws that are hoarding infected minnows into earthen ponds. Earthen ponds can harbor the virus for very long periods of time.I spend a average of four hours every day on vhs, baifish research, posting here, getting VHS meetings together, ect.

I guess my willingness to go ahead and test and telling about it can cause controversy, but where else and who else will tell you the inside scoop of what's going on for real ? Do you think that i'm the only one that is abiding the law ? I can at least say i'm doing it by the book ! ( the blue book , that is !)

[hunters08]

What my supply compared to real baitfish people that are going through this is less than 10% in comaprision. How about 60 fish vs 10,000 lbs ?  thats like 30,000,000 minnows, one test.

And you of all people after all the work you have done to slow this virus Dont think that it is a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I read everything you post and have learned everything about it from you!!!! He asked what we feel about it, i feel the testing is a joke 60 minnows out of 30 million come on the odds are your missing the virus anyways!!!!! 100 minnow limit is stupid if you have certified minnows anyways. its not controversy he wanted opinions and i gave mine

[jmh8098]

It is all a pretty simple matter to me.  I really don't care about any of it (wether the law is enforcable or not, or how relevant it is) except that I can't use bait from the black listed waters, simple enough to me, I go to bait shops that I know with 100% certainty will follow the rules.  And when I catch my own bait in uninfected waters I will use them wherever I please.  It all comes down to doing the right thing.  Understanding where the waters are that are infected and not using bait from them, its seems pretty simple to me.  Mass education rather than comming up with laws to throw out for interpritation would be where you would get the best bang for your buck.  Kids in school should be learning about it, they are sponges, then when they come home they tell their moms and dads and then you have to listen to them, who wants to harm the enviornment in front of their kids?  By putting the seminar listings in the fishing magazines and outdoor newspapers and sites like this it is not going to reach enough people to effectivly get out to enough people.

[wnybassman]

And when I catch my own bait in uninfected waters I will use them wherever I please.

Umm, I thought that is what was supposed to be stopped?  How do you know the waters are uninfected?  Just because they are not on a list, doesn't mean that they are not.

[JJ]

Exactly right WNYBassman, there should be no transfer of fish from any waters whether the disease has been found there or not.

[crayfishbob]

Yes, Hunters08, I do appreciate your opinion. And I do apoligise for being rash.

Also, my vhs meetings in particular, even though is at only a gander mountain and at a diner, I am reaching imorortant sectors for fishermen and alike. I invited the whole town of constantia, as I posted bulletins in Vella's  ( a grocery store ) , two diners, the post office, and even the state hatchery.

For the gander mtn meeting, I posted on channel 9 news forum.
http://community.9wsyr.com/forums/235/ShowForum.aspx

I would say that i'm trying to reach alot of people, especially if the news show up.

[adkRoy]

I think somehow, this is really going to cost NY millions and millions of dollars. I think this disease is going to spread no matter what because you will still have dumba%% fishermen who will catch bait out of infected lakes and transport them into non infected lakes. It will spread just like the zebra mussel.

The only buying 100 minnows at a time rule is crap too. If the bait is certified what does it matter how much I buy.

[RLWagner]

No doubt something will need to be done to slow the spread of disease. But limiting bait, or restricting it all together may cause a larger problem. Fisherman will begin trapping their own bait, and transferring it from lake to lake which may spread disease faster since these baits will not be certified!

[stringer]

Thanks for some of your words rlwagner thats what i'm stating D>E>C> is supposibly not going to give only one or to warnings thenwith the computer tech. they are going to hand out tickets and what ever follows they said they are not taking this litely by no meens as i stated with my current permits i've already got my warning thats not a problem my problem is with 1000 to1100 dollar testing per time it pretty well shut down my fishing no one in my area is carring the bait i use shops are closing !!! by the way you can not catch any live bait good list or bad and use it any where else than where you caught it if you buy certified then you may go where ever bait is allowed.

[RLWagner]

Thanks for some of your words rlwagner thats what i'm stating D>E>C> is supposibly not going to give only one or to warnings thenwith the computer tech. they are going to hand out tickets and what ever follows they said they are not taking this litely by no meens as i stated with my current permits i've already got my warning thats not a problem my problem is with 1000 to1100 dollar testing per time it pretty well shut down my fishing no one in my area is carring the bait i use shops are closing !!! by the way you can not catch any live bait good list or bad and use it any where else than where you caught it if you buy certified then you may go where ever bait is allowed.

I see black market bait becoming a quick profitable reality! Testing needs to be affordable, and first come first served on bait purchases for the angler, and scrap the limits.
Many local river/lake baitfish populations will become adversly effected if the angler is forced to "find his own" legal or not. This could then impact all of your/our fisheries in a negative manner.

[hunters08]

I agree and some one said they had to pay 5 dollars for a dozen emeralds so thats 40 dollars for a 100 limit thats crazy if the bait shops are charging that they will have enough money to pay for testing. i hate even saying testing cause that is the biggest JOKE of all!!!!!! for 30 million minnows caught they need only test 60 thats not even 40 dollars worth at the 5 dollars a dozen.  Lets figure this out 30 million minnows at 5 dollars for 12 comes out to if my figures are right, something like 12,500,000.00 dollars and they only had to spend 1100.  Crayfish has 500,000 ready to sell that comes out to 210,000 dollars at 5 dollars for 12 how much are you charging crayfish? thanks

[crayfishbob]

Crayfish senses a trap... proceeds carefully...

Ok here's the lowdown. I payed $200.00 for the use of a marina way back in August before this ever came about ( the vhs laws ) I repaired a cage for $50.00,  I then payed $165.00 for a new cage that was not correctly constructed, so I had to send it back. I missed the best run of minnows during this time. I then built another cage at $100.00, then I spent aproxamatly $80.00 on gas . I payed $50.00 for shipping, and I'm about to pay $700 for testing.  I'm the only one that found four testing labs and I deserve this break for my work. It is a state run agency, so there is no backyard lab testing here. So that's $1345.00 , and if not for being perstisant, it would be $1685.

That's pretty close to $1.00 per lb, into them.then theres my time and labor with a bad back. Going minnow hunting is a everyday event with a routine that gets old, but it has to get done.



I could charge outlandish prices, but obviously, you don't know me. This is the very reason I went and this this is so there would be normal prices. you tell me what normal price is so I can set it !

[crayfishbob]

I forgot. There's polls set up on my site for bait issues. I opened up that part of forum so the public can make thier own polls. I did this before any of these posts came up, BTW.

So you can vote, or make a poll about PWRbait's pink stockings for all I care !

http://www.oneidalake.us/forum/viewforum.php?f=14

[adkman]

As a fisherman who enjoys the sport I think that we as a whole should not depend or wait for the DEC to do something but should take action ourselves by not taking bait that has not been certified from one body to another.  The DEC has moved in circles and ended up right back where they started.  We had a meeting back in December at our club to discuss what and how this would effect our derby held here in February.  We offered our Data base for The Northern Challenge Ice Fishing Derby of 2000 to them for a mailing.  We offered to go to Ray Brook and help fold and stuff envelopes for them.  DEC thought it was a great idea. All they had to do is draft up a letter telling people what they wanted.  As of yet we have heard nothing and don't expect to.  Just another instance where someone dropped the ball and it wasn't the sportsmen.

[hunters08]

I forgot. There's polls set up on my site for bait issues. I opened up that part of forum so the public can make thier own polls. I did this before any of these posts came up, BTW.

So you can vote, or make a poll about PWRbait's pink stockings for all I care !

http://www.oneidalake.us/forum/viewforum.php?f=14

Well bob i posted my opinions on your forum wouldnt let me vote in the poll though.I also wanted to say that i am in no way trying to trap you in anything!!!I am just giving my opinions and waiting for a reply. Thank you 

[hunters08]

I forgot i cant really tell you a  price I have caught my minnows for years !!!and when i didnt i have a little woman over here in jamestown in her 80's that gives me around 50 emeralds for two dollars so i couldnt give you a price But i will tell you she has probably shut her doors over this!!! I dont know because i still have probably 15,000 minnows left.I will find out soon because as you know we are starting to form ice!!!!

[crayfishbob]

Well bob i posted my opinions on your forum wouldnt let me vote in the poll though.I also wanted to say that i am in no way trying to trap you in anything!!!I am just giving my opinions and waiting for a reply. Thank you 

My humor leaves a little bit to be desired, i'm sure. I went into admin panel and fixed the poll vote option. I forgot it was set for registered users by default.

[Bear_Lake_Bob]

I am a commercially licensed Bait Dealer, and have 45 years experience in dipping, transporting, wholesaling and retailing! My experiences in Minnow harvesting has been from Lakes Erie, Ontario, the Niagara River and almost all the  legal l isted tributaries from the PA border to Sodus, New York!

I have seen this condition in Lake Erie Emerald Shiners for atleast the last 8-10 years. The DEC has known about this condition for the last 8 years, and has stood by and done nothing; then one day starts action over this like their pants are on fire.  I know for a fact, NYSDEC  has taken the most expanded regulatory posture of any of the adjoining states who have joined the VHS Band Wagon so far. If you review the regulatory posture, you will see that our agency, the DEC has went ballistic in comparison, as to what is being done by the other states

I petitioned the DEC almost 10 years ago now, to start a Great Lakes reference pannel of Bait Fish, Game Fish, and Non-Game Fish species to include all aquatic life forms from A-Z. This reference pannel would consist of sub samples collected at various areas of ie, Lake Erie and Ontario by species, and the sub samples collected various distances anong the shore line would be composited and frozen in state owned and maintained facilities!

My reason for suggesting this reference pannel was the lack of DNA sample material from the Blue Pike, however one could see how this frozen reference pannel could be archieved, and later tested to determine exactly when any species of Great Lake 
Fish became involved with any occurance such as VHS. The DEC lacks insight, and still has no reference specimens on ice to go back to!
This VHS sampling plan is ajoke as well, the DEC makes these crazy laws like certification and doesn't seem to care how much it costs us sportsmen to procure live bait .The DEC has infected the waters of the Great Lakes by stocking UNCERTIFIED HATCHERY FISH  from out of state sources! This is more so proven by the presence of VHS in fish from Conesus Lake, where years ago the DEC started to stock Western Strain Rainbow Trout The state DEC only started testing brood fish from Western USA sources only after Whirling Disease was found.Forget their theory nonsense of this disease being brought in from ocean  vessels from Europe! They blame everyting on that, give us a break!

I have already seen black market minnows for sale, and am sure it will only get worse, and uncontrollable! I have been force feeding my own fish pond with Lake Erie Emeralds for the last 12 years, and have Trout,Walleye,Perch as well as Black/White Crappie, all on the list of fish suposedly effected by VHS; and have yet to see a infected fish!

Finally in all of this mess, I must admit, that NYSDEC law about the 100 minnows per bucket is not unrealistic; look at Ontario Canada, they have had a 50 minnow per person limit dating back to the 70s

Certain large bait dealers in New York have banded together and are going to sue DEC for this nonsense rules/regulations, it will be fun to see what happens. For now, I have renewed my DEC Commercial Netting License, and all other sub netting licenses for certain cities, villages and towns in hopes that this will blow over soon. I would never pay a red cent to test any lot of minnows, you are just falling into the DEC game plan where they think we are stupid, and will do their work for them,and at  no  cost to them. Too many Good Dooers out there, they keep passing unrealistic laws, and keep taking away or rights! First it was shooting crows only on Friday,Saturdays,Sundays and Mondays, then it was no more splitshot to be sold in New York State, now its contaminated bait on a state wide level. Is the DEC really with us, or against us; hard To Tell isn't it!


bearlake_bob

[JeffreyKrow]

How would you know that you are buying "certified " minnows?  Do you have to carry a certificate of authenticity of a minnow with pictures and mug shots of all the minnows? How on earth is DEC going to be able to look into a minnow bucket and say "those minnows are not certified"?
     It sounds to me like the DEC is planning on getting into the live bait for a fortune business.
     If these minnows need to be certified,"tested", why doesn't the state fund and set up testing labs for the minnow mongers to use for free???
     Where is everybody buying the right minnows?? Did it raise the price of minnows by much?? This is the first I heard of it.

                      JK

[Irrgang131]

     I understand that they are worried about VHS and it should be controlled.  It will hurt the bait dealers and it will hurt us.  As far as the 100 minnow limit goes that is something I am used to as I am originally from PA and that is how it was when I lived there.  If you are out on the lake and run out of bait it is quite easy to scoop some emeralds and who is gonna know where you got the 100 from in your bucket.  Though I feel the DEC is doing something correct here maybe they should spend a little more time on rethinking all of theese deer tags they give out.  Cut it back to two or three and give an antler restriction also one buck per season bow, shotgun/rifle, or muzzleloader your choice.  If I saw half as many deer in NY as I see when I go to PA for two days of rifle hunting here would be great.  Instead everyone gets all these tags and though we dont all use all of them there are those that do.  I dont think NY wants any deer around.  Sorry to get off subject. 

[JJ]

I'm glad all of you know more than our DEC biologists, they come up with a plan to reduce the spread of VHS, yet many who disagree offer no effective alternatives.  I commend our DEC for taking bold steps even though they supposedly lack insight according to Bear Lake Bob.  This isn't going to "blow over", in fact we are going to see further restictions on baitfish use, something that has been long overdue.

OUR fisheries departments have been underfunded and understaffed for years (it has been about a year now that we have had a fisheries biologist in the Lake George area, a position was vacant for something like 6-8 yrs), yet some want them to pay for testing?  We do live in a market economy, and if it cost more to provide bait for sale then the price should come up accordingly (yet around here the prices haven't changed?).

[pokerman]

Mousies, baby, mousies.  Seriously, I've caught plenty of nice perch on them.  So, I might have to work a little harder for decent keepers.  But, that's ok by me.  And I haven't heard of any problems with fatheads, either, unless I'm missing something.

I'll be happy to just get out there and fish.  If I catch enough on Saturday for a nice breakfast for the family Sunday, I'm happy.

Pokerman

[crayfishbob]

What everyone has to remember is its the DEC who is in the drivers seat, whether right or wrong. They can stop the sale of minnows alltogether to simplify things. Maybe they should ! Today, I'm trying to reach my local assembly man. What are doing for the future of your fishery ?

It's a daily event, I read, educate myself, then educate others.

I think of VHS as a vampire, out in the woods reaking havok, spreading his little disease unchecked. We can sit and argue all about what his next move is, but he goes on his merry way. I just want to inform people not to give this creep a ride to the next town, try to stop him before theres vampires all over the place.

Hands down, I believe that { besides us that are informed }  the spread of this disease will be by human intervention and the people that does it don't even know what VHS means. Its the weekend warrier with a 6 pack in his hand and a party boat. And if you told this dude you better check his bilge, he'd probly punch you in the nose !

It takes once ! then its over for that lake !