Age of perch question?

[nyiceman23]

I was just wondering if anyone knows how to get an estimate on the age of a perch.  I haven't really thought about it before until I was catching some nice 12inchers.   I know it may vary from water and region, but what would be the aging of a perch in Lake Ontario? 

My guess would be that they are probably a 6 inch dink one winter and maybe a 10 inch fatty the next.  Making it a 3 year old fish?    Any fishologists with any educated answers welcome.

[firefighter]

Depends on how fertile the waters are ie: forage, etc. Fish from waters that are warm most of the year and have plenty of forage will grow much faster that specimens from northerly areas with shorter growing seasons. Also overpopulation with yellow perch and other panfish tends to lead to major stunting. 

[taxi1]

Average growth for yellow perch is about 3 inches per year until their their third year, where it starts to slow down to 2 inches per year, and then maybe an inch a year thereafter. But like Firefighter said it depends on food supply, competition and even strain.

Your most accurate way would be to contact a local biologist who most likely will have actual data on growth rates in your area.

I am purchasing 500 seven inch perch in a few weeks that are only 1 year old! They are feed trained of course and have been selectively bred for about 30 generations now. Originally from Lake Erie.

[nyiceman23]

thanks guys.  Keep it coming.   I fish Sandy Pond and Chaumont for perch which is North Eastern Ontario

[JiggerMan]

Taxidermists pretty much has it right about the growth rates for the average perch and that greater rates of growth go along with the better food resources. 

You might try going to the INHS website.  when i worked there they had a big thing going with studying the perch on lake michigan.  they would do aging and identifying stomach contents, and larval fish counts. 

We aged them primarily by otiliths.... taking them out breaking them in half and burning the one edge to make the marks more pronounced.  we also did some scale samples. 

There were some perch that were 15 inches that were 5-7 years old and then there were some that were that size that were 12 years old.

My guess would be that the 12 inchers that you were catching were 3-4 years old with a good food source and maybe 5 years old with a poor food source.   

JM

[fishman79]

Those 12 inch perch you are catching on chamount bay are between  4-6 y/o also, if you happen to catch a male that is that big he is probably much older. we have some of the biggest perch at age here in the eastern basin, all thanks to the goby.
jiggerman discribed the aging process well, it is also done by pressing the scales into sheets of acetate and reading them on a scope.

[taxi1]

Using the otoliths is better though. Never been impressed with the accuracy of scales.

Interestingly a biology teacher friend of mine that got his hands on perch from Indian netters out of lake Huron sent some otoliths to professor at SDSU for aging. There were two perch in the 16 inch range. One was quite young while the other was quite old, but they were both the same size. Apparently the older one came out of much deeper water and it was speculated it grew slower but probably lived longer in colder water. I believe the younger one was only six years old but the older one was 16 years old. I can find out for sure if anyone is interested.

[fishman79]

you are right on there taxidermist with the accuracy thing, otoliths are much better. we do it with scales because its torture to crack the heads of hundreds of perch outside on a august afternoon while trying to pick and rack gillnets.
this is a good thread, interesting information we all can share and not a arguing match. lets have more like it.

[seaweed01]

Lots of good information here, keep it up guys.

[taxi1]

you are right on there taxidermist with the accuracy thing, otoliths are much better. we do it with scales because its torture to crack the heads of hundreds of perch outside on a august afternoon while trying to pick and rack gillnets.
this is a good thread, interesting information we all can share and not a arguing match. lets have more like it.

Why don't you just whack the heads off, put them in a ziplock back and freeze until you can dig out the otoliths? 

[fishman79]

probably could, but would need a big freezer and lots of time later to handle all the summer surveys. gotta make hay while the sun shines, right.

[nyiceman23]

WoW I didn't think they would be that old.   I know that the goby population will increase the growth rate of the perch around here.   

[ChamplainTigerShark]

I worked up a yellow perch from Lake Champlain 14'' caught in a gillnet set in 15fow right after ice out, scales said she was around 22yo.  screwed up prepping the otolith's (first try ever)  so I couldn't verify, but with the intense intraspecific competition it could be possible.

[taxi1]

I worked up a yellow perch from Lake Champlain 14'' caught in a gillnet set in 15fow right after ice out, scales said she was around 22yo.  screwed up prepping the otolith's (first try ever)  so I couldn't verify, but with the intense intraspecific competition it could be possible.

Although I'm skeptical of reading scales on a fish that old (they must have been really bunched together) I wouldn't be surprised if the otolith had verified that age. Just like other species, once in a while there is a specimen that far exceeds other specimens in age -- especially if it doesn't eat a lot-- and is slow growing in cold water.

What I find also fascinating is how for the most part fish that grow rapidly with a good food supply have a shorter lifespan than their counterparts that grow slower. Fish in water that is warmer and more conducive to fish growth year around -- as in the south -- tend to have shorter lifespans than northern fish that experience temps that stop their growth for a few months every year. And the farther north you go into Canada the longer the lifespans of the fish. Sometimes a slower growing fish can meet or exceed that faster growing fish that dies earlier.

Then there are those one in a billion fish that have everything going for them and they exceed in size all of their brethren by a longshot. Typically these anomalies are fish that break the record books.

I have to laugh when people criticize my perch that get quite large on pellets in my pond and that one anomaly that got to 16 1/4 inches and almost 3 lbs. To hear them talk it's easy to grow record size fish by just feeding them a lot. I wish it was that easy. Regardless how much ahead of their wild counterparts my pond perch are (and all females which are faster growing), and how much I feed them very few of them exceed 15 inches. 15 inches seems to be a barrier that is rarely broken and it seems to be the same in the wild. Only one of hundreds in my pond has actually exceeded 16 inches. This particular fish had everything going for it as in gentics, growth rate, adaptation to the pond etc.

I will say I'm making some changes (i.e no more bass at feeding time to intimidate the perch) and maybe I can do better but only time will tell.

[taxi1]

probably could, but would need a big freezer and lots of time later to handle all the summer surveys. gotta make hay while the sun shines, right.

yeah that makes sense.

[JiggerMan]

probably could, but would need a big freezer and lots of time later to handle all the summer surveys. gotta make hay while the sun shines, right.

Thats what interns and summer aides are for (removing the otiliths or stacking nets) 

when i was in IL working for DNR And INHS we would have several coolers 100 qt coolers foll of perch from the gill nets and fyke nets and would save them for process back in the lab were there were less bugs.  we would save the freezer space for the perch fillets being saved for the perch frys. 

most of the time it was the low guy on the totem pole that would get stuck tkaing filleting the perch, but sometimes I ould be cause i was much faster.

the oldest perch that i read otiliths from was 15 years old. 

[taxi1]

When I worked for the Indiana DNR as a biologist aid doing fish surveys, we wouldn't dare take any fish back for a fish fry. We would have to dump them in a remote area of woods next to a reservoir. We already had people accusing us of needlessly killing fish in the gill nets. It was a shame they couldn't be put to good use as in a fish fry, but when you've got a cynical John Q. Public breathing down your neck what can you do?

It was and still is amazing the ignorant rumors that go around about taking out all the fish out, or moving them from one body of water to another or even out of state.  Some people really need to get a life.

[nyiceman23]

How does this scale counting process go.  Not that I will try it but just how is it done.  thanks  I really learned alot so far

[taxi1]

How does this scale counting process go.  Not that I will try it but just how is it done.  thanks  I really learned alot so far

Both the scales and otolith bones have rings on them similar to tree rings. The rings form when growth stops in the winter. Scale samples are taken along with weight, length etc. and the scales are cataloged in tiny evelopes. Later in the winter the biologist take the scales out and make acetate impressions with them and attempt to read them.

However its not as easy as it sounds and some folks are are better at it than others. In fact I've actually heard some say it's more an art than science. Also with the scales growth slows down so much in older fish, and the rings get so bunched up it can be hard to get an accurate reading. Unfortunately I can't tell you a lot about the otoliths as we didn't do those in my short career with my DNR, and I would bet they are still behind the times and still don't. I once mounted the state record northern pike and saved part of the clithreum bone to be cross sectioned and aged, and they never ever got around to it. I don't think they had a clue to how to do it.

[fishman79]

taxidermist is right on with the scale ageing process. its also possible with alot of the bony structures of other fish. fin rays in smelt, spine cross sections in perch and walleye, coleithra in esocids, and otoliths in all fish. otoliths are the most reliable as they are internal and are not effected by outside forces like scales are. each agency uses different things, and the methods can vary greatly as well. NYS DEC mostly uses scales, probably because we have always used scales and the data methods should remain consistant to truely compare from year to year. we do spot check our work by having other folks read them and compare ages. Maybe someday we will switch over I'm not sure, wither way its still a ton of work, but fun still.

[jimski2]

I returned a tag from a 25 inch walleye and the return from the DEC said that it was a male 25 inch walleye tagged ten years earlier. Apparently fish are like people, we grow so long and stop getting longer no matter what our age.