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Wyoming => Ice Fishing Wyoming => Topic started by: DeHaai44 on Jan 10, 2024, 09:58 AM
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I had a buddy fishing boysen last weekend. They did not do very well. They did however get an UNATTENDANCE ticket from game and fish though. They got up at 2am. Tried for a night bite. They finally went back to the camper at 5am. They woke up at 830 am and had one flag up. They went out and checked their tipups. While doing so a warden came up and said he had watched them for 2 hours and since they never checked their tipups in that time line he was writing them a ticket for unattendance. I could not find anything in the regulations pertaining to this. I called the casper and lander offices. Neither could give me a definite answer on what is considered unattendance. It's basically its the wardens discretion. Also they were within 300 yards of their lines and had their names on all of them. Just thought I would share that. Personally I think it's a bogus ticket that should never be issued. There is more of a grey area then corner crossing 🤣. Just curious on everyone's thought.
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I will simply repeat what I said on the boysen board here, so it’s all in the sane place.
We went through this same thing a couple years ago. I also find it ridiculous. Do any fisherman agree with that ticket? They work for us, and we need to speak up and get it changed.
Anything left up to that much discretion leaves the door wide open for a lot of things.
I will add that just over the border in Montana, there is not a limit for how far away you can be from your set lines. You have to check them once per 24 hour period is, I believe the law. I’m not saying we should copy other states but in this case, there’s obviously not a reason for someone to receive a ticket having not checked their flag for a couple hours, while being close enough to the lines.
Again I’ll say it…we need to get this changed.
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I agree with you pokes. This specific instance was too harsh and probably shouldn't be left to the warden's discretion. The law should be more specific If the law allows for the warden to write a ticket like this. I do not know of the specific regulation.
I was checked once this season in the first week of December at W3. The Warden was very friendly and was just checking my license. I had five jawjackers set up without my name on them. He said no big deal I wouldn't write you a ticket for that. He then firmly warned me that there are many new wards this year who would definitely write me a ticket. I now have my name on my jawjackers. But if they would write a ticket for no name, they would absolutely write a ticket for unattendance, or if you're further than what they consider legal.
I personally would like to set my set lines much further than 300 yards. Typically if you're setting lines in a new spot 300 yards on some lakes isn't enough to check different areas. I have the vulture systems sensors that Will alert you to a set line going off up to a mile away.
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I think they should Outlaw freekin' JAWJACKERS! Or is that just me? ;D
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I'd say that those two hours wasted by the warden is the biggest crime. Go bust some poachers.
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Game and Fish Commission Regulations, Chapter 46:
Section 4(a) "It is legal to use hand lines, set lines, poles, or tip ups when fishing through the ice
and the angler is in attendance."
Section 4(i) "The use of more than two (2) lines is permitted only during the ice covered
period, and only when the angler is fishing through the ice, on waters listed below as being
included under the Special Winter Ice Fishing Provision.
(ii) No person shall use more than six (6) lines at any time to fish.
(iii) When using more than two (2) lines;
(A) The angler's name shall be attached to each line, pole or tip-up;
(B) The angler shall be no more than three hundred (300) yards from
all lines; and,
(C) Anglers shall check their own lines.
WGFD website says:
Ice Fishing "Attendance" FAQ's answered:
Make sure you are in attendance of your rods/tip-ups while ice fishing (within 300 yds).
Sleeping in the camper/truck is not attendance even if you are within 300 yds.
Going to check in a fish during a derby does not constitute attendance of your remaining lines.
Webster's definition of Attendance: to be present at or to be dealing with.
When fishing with tip-ups or when fishing more than 2 lines (only on bodies of water under the special winter fishing provisions-check regulations) make sure lines or tip-ups are labeled with the name of the person fishing.
Anglers are responsible for checking their own lines.
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I think the safe thing is to never admit that you are sleeping. Law enforcement always has to prove it. That being said, under 4(i), the specific regulation, there is not mention of not sleeping, just that you must be within 300 yards.
Wondering if anyone has challenged the WGFD's interpretation on this.
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I know when the last warden did this our representative was brought into it and got all the information from people and that the specific warden is no longer here. I know they have tried to push this in the past that you have 30 minutes to check you lines, if the law does not state a time restraint then you just have to be within the 300 yards and being there can be attendance.
But the last warden also would pull tip ups cut the line and take people property. The wardens should not have any discretion in the law, I mean a police officer or sheriff cannot pull you over and say that you are speeding at 30 mph when it is posted at 45. But I have my blue typz to alert me when my flags go off, but I would like to see the yardage increased just because one lake it is a pain to try and stay in the 300 yards and get into some deeper water when.we have the camper out and go back to get warm and watch for flags or wait for the alert a flag is up. I know on the reservation that natives can just leave lines out and check when they want to, but for non natives you just habe to be around the lake no distance ever mentioned that I can find. Would be nice just saying, but I know guys running just poles cannot be that far away so they would argue against the distance being pushed out.
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If you are within 300 yards of your lines you should be able to fish those lines however you darn well please. You paid your hard earned money for the license to do so.
Are you really supposed to pull up all your lines in case you may doze off? Or in the middle of cooking a meal?
I agree with the above. Go catch some "real" poachers and quit wasting your paycheck.
Also agree that this needs to get squared away, and remove the "discretion" element.
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I personally would like to set my set lines much further than 300 yards. Typically if you're setting lines in a new spot 300 yards on some lakes isn't enough to check different areas. I have the vulture systems sensors that Will alert you to a set line going off up to a mile away.
If the fish are biting, I about pull a hammy running to my set lines 30 yards away. I would like to see you running full steam 500 yards to your jj. ;D You are younger. I looked at the vulture systems but can't justify the expense of those sensors. Based on this thread, I guess that I will put my name on my homemade fish traps.
s
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It is sad that this has happened again and that good people are condemned for being good sports persons. Give them a ticket for to many lines or over limits but not for something that is not even clearly listed in the regulations.
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"Webster's definition of Attendance: to be present at or to be dealing with."
"OR", key word here.
Not "AND".
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Okay now how do we get it changed?
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I agree that the law needs clarification, and the ticket is a bit petty. But playing the devils advocate, the regulations are pretty darned liberal for Boysen: 6 lines and live bait! yet people still push the rules. The regulations clearly state that sleeping in a camper does not constitute attendance. From what I heard (admittedly 3rd hand from an angler that was nearby), the guys were asleep in their pajamas when the warden knocked on their camper 🤣.
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I agree that the law needs clarification, and the ticket is a bit petty. But playing the devils advocate, the regulations are pretty darned liberal for Boysen: 6 lines and live bait! yet people still push the rules. The regulations clearly state that sleeping in a camper does not constitute attendance. From what I heard (admittedly 3rd hand from an angler that was nearby), the guys were asleep in their pajamas when the warden knocked on their camper 🤣.
Actually, the regulations say nothing about sleeping. Its the website post, which is not law, that discusses sleeping.
The way to get it changed/clarified is to file a rulemaking petition with the WGF Commission. Or, get the Commission to take up the issue itself. This could start by sending well-reasoned emails to commission members. A rulemaking process could backfire and solidify the position that sleeping is not attendance, but there sure is a lot of gray area as it is. What if you are jigging in your tent and don't notice a tip-up for an hour or so? WGFD would certainly argue that lack of attendance could lead to over-limits of fish if fish are dying on tip-ups.
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Dave, the issue is, it doesn’t clearly state this. It says nothing of the matter. It says you have to be “in attendance of within 300 yards of your lines”
Liberal as it may be, I’ll bring this up again that just across the border, in Montana, you don’t even have to be in attendance of your tip ups. You simply have to check them once in a 24 hour period. So you can’t tell me it’s harmful or all of these different states would be on the same page. We go from one state saying “yea just come by once a day” to our state saying you have to remain awake, alert, and within 300 yards of your tip ups.
Now, I don’t think we all need to be putting tip ups out and then heading home for the day to check them tomorrow but every single person that I’ve ever known to camp on boysen has left tip ups out over night. Every one. And I see nothing wrong with that.
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every single person that I’ve ever known to camp on boysen has left tip ups out over night. Every one. And I see nothing wrong with that.
But really it's not very sporting. And Its not like they are subsistence fishing. lol
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In Indiana they have to be constantly monitored. My opinion is that this is how all states should be. Any fish left on a tip up for hours is surely dead, whether you want to keep it or not. Just my opinion, don't yell at me
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just my opinion. But isn't fishing a verb? Shouldn't someone be "fishing".
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just my opinion. But isn't fishing a verb? Shouldn't someone be "fishing".
I want to know who they were hurting. Or how they were hurting the fishery by sleeping.
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I guess my point in all this was “who cares”. Evidently a few people do.
Bottom line is I don’t like the grey area. It invites in “well you were cooking lunch and didn’t see your flag.” You were talking too much and didn’t see your flag.” It looks to me like you nodded off in your chair and weren’t in attendance if your lines.”
I would much rather have the RULE very lenient and let people fish how they want.
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The last time this came around the warden even made it so any sleeping was not good, then he changed his mind and if you were in a shanty and sleeping that was OK to do. So it just goes to show the Grey area makes it hard, but like I say running my alarms on my lines anytime they go up I get notified immediately, I spent a lot of money for that convenience so each their own. I remember when I was a kid doing this we would get up every 2 hours and chip the lines out, but no hole covers and such like I have today, and that was always acceptable back in the day. I would hate to see them put a time limit on checking your lines or always having to be sitting there watching and not being able to hang out with the family and such, which is why I enjoy it and getting my kids involved in the sport. If we keep making things harder and more complicated then we are going to lose more people to the sport and make it easier for them to take things away. Just my soap box and .02 worth of complaining. Have a good one everyone and hope to be able to fish with some out on the ice.
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Many years ago we were shore fishing for cats where the river runs into Glendo. Three of us guys each had a line out and rods in holders. It was after dark when the girls hollered at us that burgers were ready so we went up to the campers. We were sitting around the fire eating when we saw a boat pull up on the beach and a couple of flashlights walking further up toward the canyon. About 10 minutes later we hear ''Hey! you got a fish on down here!'' We hustled down to meet a couple of wardens, one of which who had landed a cat. ''Whos' rod is this? the warden asked. I confessed and got a ticket for unattended rod. When I asked what constituted inattendance I was told ''If I can get to your rod before you do you're not in attendance!'' ???
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I don't think these two instances described were "bogus" tickets. They were within the G&F regulations and ranger discretion. I sympathize that it doesn't impact the fisheries in the least and doesn't promote fishing. I wouldn't be happy about getting such a ticket. I don't fish like that; I have no problem with those that do. If it was my 14-year-old son that was inattentive...I would hope he/I wouldn't get that ticket based on ranger discretion. If he did, I would be mad about that. I am from out-of-state; so, my opinion doesn't really count. I will comply with whatever the state wants. I think you would have to remove requiring "attendance" while sport fishing from the regulations all together to get anywhere. Not likely. Otherwise, drawing attention to defining attendance might get a very restrictive definition or interpretation, as previously said. And kids wouldn't get a break, for example.
s
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I have chipped a few tip ups out of the ice at boysen that had been left for weeks. Some even had fish on them. It is a problem, just because you got a petty ticket does not mean you are the problem. It means you "could have" been a problem. We as anglers should call out others for poor behavior that make us look bad. The trash on the ice is astounding. Tip ups being one of them.
Littered amongst the cig butts, plastic snack food wrapping, and other pathetic sh*t. It's the most tangible and ticketable offense issued to fight a bigger problem. You pay them...? Not even close to enough dude. Especially not to take care of a bunch of man children they didn't make.
Btw, slayer loves jaw jackers. 😍
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I guess my point in all this was “who cares”. Evidently a few people do.
Bottom line is I don’t like the grey area. It invites in “well you were cooking lunch and didn’t see your flag.” You were talking too much and didn’t see your flag.” It looks to me like you nodded off in your chair and weren’t in attendance if your lines.”
I would much rather have the RULE very lenient and let people fish how they want.
I agree with pok3s on this. The grey area is what gets me. One warden doesn't care on Friday and Saturday. Sunday a new warden is ticked. At the very least the grey area needs to be turned to black and white. Change the regulations to be more specific. Personally I think people should quite worrying about what other people are doing unless they are causing harm. I would love to see it as long as your within 300 yards you are good. To me taking a 2 or 3 hour nap doesn't justify unattendace IMO. I don't care what other guys heard from the guy a 1/2 mile away that told their cousin that told you they were in PJs. That's not what happened hear to clearify.
Now obviously if people are leaving frozen tipups in the ice then they are the same ones leaving trash and everything else behind and need dealt with.
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I agree with pok3s on this. The grey area is what gets me. One warden doesn't care on Friday and Saturday. Sunday a new warden is ticked. At the very least the grey area needs to be turned to black and white. Change the regulations to be more specific. Personally I think people should quite worrying about what other people are doing unless they are causing harm. I would love to see it as long as your within 300 yards you are good. To me taking a 2 or 3 hour nap doesn't justify unattendace IMO. I don't care what other guys heard from the guy a 1/2 mile away that told their cousin that told you they were in PJs. That's not what happened hear to clearify.
Now obviously if people are leaving frozen tipups in the ice then they are the same ones leaving trash and everything else behind and need dealt with.
I don’t really have a strong opinion one way or another about this. But I agree with others that an effort to make things more clear has a good chance backfiring and ending up with a more restrictive regulation.
The topic got me interested in the regs of other ice fishing states (ND, SD, WI and MN) and they are more restrictive. Montana is a bit of an outlier. They also don’t have a detailed descriptive definition of what attendance is: but you must be able to immediately respond to a flag, lines must be under direct supervision at all times, be within 150-200 feet and in direct line of sight at all times! They also only allow 3-4 lines per person maximum.
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I don’t really have a strong opinion one way or another about this. But I agree with others that an effort to make things more clear has a good chance backfiring and ending up with a more restrictive regulation.
The topic got me interested in the regs of other ice fishing states (ND, SD, WI and MN) and they are more restrictive. Montana is a bit of an outlier. They also don’t have a detailed descriptive definition of what attendance is: but you must be able to immediately respond to a flag, lines must be under direct supervision at all times, be within 150-200 feet and in direct line of sight at all times! They also only allow 3-4 lines per person maximum.
I would imagine that is because the lakes, on average are much busier and more popular than ours. In those popular fisheries, those guys are stacked in there like sardines. Any further than 200 feet from a line of tip ups and you’re going to have to run through 10 ice hours to get there!
I believe they’re more restrictive because of the nature of those fisheries and others around, not because it’s causing harm to the fishery itself.
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I would imagine that is because the lakes, on average are much busier and more popular than ours. In those popular fisheries, those guys are stacked in there like sardines. Any further than 200 feet from a line of tip ups and you’re going to have to run through 10 ice hours to get there!
I believe they’re more restrictive because of the nature of those fisheries and others around, not because it’s causing harm to the fishery itself.
Ya, they also seem to mostly (generalizing here) have a 4 walleye limit, and only 1 over 20”.
Kinda beating a dead horse 🤣 but I guess my point is that the Wyoming statute isn’t that different than others. Seems like if you want to leave your tip ups out all night, you just have to check em’.
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i think the easiest way to find out about getting things talked about at the "Wyoming Game and Fish" level is call Cheyenne and ask when/how to get discussion with the commissioners or type in the "Ask the Wyoming Game and Fish" on the Wyoming page how to get regulations reviewed.
I think everyone on this page can give their option or thoughts but really not going to solve anything but hear what the other guy has to say. Hopefully at some point the G&F will take the time to listen what folks have to say and then can give a response to the question.
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I would just like to see some indication that we're being listened to! I'd like to know how leaving a tip up that has your name and address on it on the ice overnight is a harm to the fishery. ???
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I would just like to see some indication that we're being listened to! I'd like to know how leaving a tip up that has your name and address on it on the ice overnight is a harm to the fishery. ???
if you gut-hook under-sized fish it's a harm! ???
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if you gut-hook under-sized fish it's a harm! ???
X2, burbot on tipups are notorious for not tripping flags, need to be checked often to not gut hook small ones
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Today I fished the afternoon. Got to the lake and no one was in the area that I wanted to fish. Tracks in the snow and holes in the ice said that someone was there earlier this morning. I find three tip-ups set in holes with smelt hanging below. No one around... and I fished for several hours, and no one showed up. If you go home, and leave your lines out, that is definitely unattended, and your tip-ups become mine! How the heck do you leave the lake and forget to pull any of your tip-ups?
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if you gut-hook under-sized fish it's a harm! ???
How? If you leave tipups out overnight, you take the chance of having to keep some small fish by morning. I would argue that keeping a limit of “undersized fish” is less of a harm to the fishery than keeping 6 “oversized fish.”
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How? If you leave tipups out overnight, you take the chance of having to keep some small fish by morning. I would argue that keeping a limit of “undersized fish” is less of a harm to the fishery than keeping 6 “oversized fish.”
What if the limit on Eyes is 15"? And you gut hook several 12" eyes. =Duh! ::)
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What if the limit on Eyes is 15"? And you gut hook several 12" eyes. =Duh! ::)
Not to mention you can only keep 2 Sauger and 3 Burbot…
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Very good point slayer! Boysen and Pathfinder are my ice fishing spots. Typically I'll leave two lines in thru the night. I've never had an undersized fish on in the morning and never had a fish in poor condition due to being tethered to my tip-up all night come thru the ice in the morning. That being said, I can see the potential for that happening. If one were worried that a fish may be ''gut hooked'' maybe only fish with hand held rods or lines. If that was the reasoning of the Game and Fish then there would be no tip-ups allowed. It irks me to propose more restrictions on sportsmen but maybe the two rod limit should be in place on waters that have length or slot limits :-\ :tipup: :tipup: :tipup:
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Just because a fish swims away doesn't mean it won't die. Check out some mortality studies.
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I would just like to see some indication that we're being listened to! I'd like to know how leaving a tip up that has your name and address on it on the ice overnight is a harm to the fishery. ???
You must be part of the new generation cause this is ridiculous. If I leave my rod out unattended overnight while I sleep I would expect to be ticketed plain and simple. Why does having your name and address on it make it okay in your opinion to do? You want the G&F to make it more clear holy crap they will laugh I am sure.
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You must be part of the new generation cause this is ridiculous. If I leave my rod out unattended overnight while I sleep I would expect to be ticketed plain and simple. Why does having your name and address on it make it okay in your opinion to do? You want the G&F to make it more clear holy crap they will laugh I am sure.
I don’t think the name and address part is the main focus of the comment. The name and address portion he’s talkiing about was simply additional information about his tip up as that is how they are to be labeled.
We want clarification on the rule, and mostly, some lenience on the rule. Ever since people have been fishing they’ve been leaving lines out overnight. To this day it’s trot lines in the “south” and tip ups in the “north”.
If you want to read back through the posts so you can get a grasp as to what we want clarified here, that would be helpful.
But…you must be part of that new generation that doesn’t read anything and just likes to attempt to bash people on the internet. :whistle:
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I don’t think the name and address part is the main focus of the comment. The name and address portion he’s talkiing about was simply additional information about his tip up as that is how they are to be labeled.
We want clarification on the rule, and mostly, some lenience on the rule. Ever since people have been fishing they’ve been leaving lines out overnight. To this day it’s trot lines in the “south” and tip ups in the “north”.
If you want to read back through the posts so you can get a grasp as to what we want clarified here, that would be helpful.
But…you must be part of that new generation that doesn’t read anything and just likes to attempt to bash people on the internet. :whistle:
Actually I did read this entire post and truthfully if a game warden is okay being lenient this is a rarity. So you think it is okay to not attend your tip up overnight which is basically an unattended rod overnight?
You need "Clarity" for this?
Yeah you take that to the G&F it won't get you anywhere smartass.
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Well 234, In my humble ''new gen'' opinion name calling won't get you any respect. I have been and, God willing, will continue to fish Wyoming as I have for the last 65 years. I got a late start 'cause we moved here when I was 5 :). Perhaps the states that allow jug lines, bank poles, and trot lines and other ''unattended'' lines have it all wrong. Then again as Trent pointed out there are geographical conditions that make it more feasible to do that. Those methods are not what I would want to see in Wyoming but I would like to see overnight tip-ups allowed with reasonable restrictions and limits or a cogent reason from the Game and Fish why not. Oh, name and address on tip-ups doesn't make anything "OK'' but it does help to identify bad actors as Hillsfisher pointed out. ;D :tipup: :tipup: :tipup:
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So you think it is okay to not attend your tip up overnight which is basically an unattended rod overnight?
You need "Clarity" for this?
Yeah you take that to the G&F it won't get you anywhere smartass.
Yes. I do. Because leaving a tip up out overnight is not the same as leaving a rod out overnight.
AND up until a few years ago, “in attendance” of your rods was simply within 300 yards of your rods.
The first tickets for “sleeping” I ever heard of was not that long ago. So again, clarification is necessary.
And since we’re going around in circles again, I haven’t ever spent the night on the ice with tipups in the water but I don’t think it’s wrong too.
And again what counts as “attendance”. Does an electronic device going off that alerts me that my tipup went off, and waking me up count as being in attendance? Why or why not?
Could the electronic devices not work? Yep.
Just the same as I can screw up and jam my flag into my trigger mechanism not allowing it to pop…which I’ve done before. Does that mistake count as “not in attendance” because technically it was a couple hours before I noticed.
Can you see how clarification would be helpful?
If not, we better not ever catch you nodding off, cooking dinner, chatting with the neighbors or doing ANYTHING that would ever take your focus off those tipups! :nono: :nono:
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Ahh the internet 🤯. this topic has been beat like a dead horse…
No need to be a Dick 234. I will just reiterate that the guys who got the tickets were asleep in their camper, and the warden gave them time to respond to the flags…they didn’t. If wardens start giving tickets for the scenarios you present Trent, I’d agree with you. I haven’t heard of that happening recently. I also know that writing statutes to be clear seems simple, but is not that easy. As mentioned before, any changes will likely result in less liberal regulations.
Some states (I believe SD) say you must be Physically present to check your tip ups, so the electronic alerts don’t count. Not sure we want those kinds of clarifications!
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Sportsman234- If you arent careful with your words someone might just have to ban you from here. There is no need to be disrespectful on here especially to those that are trying to help others out..
So lets all play nice or like I said not so good things might happen!!
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So have we beat the dead horse enough? Giving some thought to nuking it because it’s run it course as useful. I have no problem us questioning the powers to be, I was in law enforcement, in Wyoming for 31 years, retired now I work as a probation officer for a treatment court. Us as sportsmen arguing over someone’s citation is unproductive. If you want change or to see how the law is take it to court, make the state prove their case, (Elk Mountain comes to mind). I’ve fished all around our region. In Montana you can leave your tip ups in all night miles apart. That’s how guys find areas with fish. When a flag is found the area is saturated, by the whole party. Not my way of doing things but it works. I’m not going to judge or suggest WY go that way, but if I go to Montana with friends I’m sure they expect me to play their game.
The other thing that comes to mind in this case is we have only heard one side to the story and trust me there are always two sides. Chances are good there’s a recording of the event, just saying.
So that’s my 3 cents worth if nothing productive is going to come from this post I’m going to shut it down soon.
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I say "Shut it Down". folks have spoken their minds and it's now up to us to speak to the Game/Fish respectively and see if we might get some traction making things better..
Just my thoughts!!