Hooks while Spearing?

[BuschWhacker]

Was wondering, for how many of you, if it is legal to use hooks on your bait/decoy while spearing?
   I know while I was growing up in Minnesota, it was unlawful to use hooks while spearing ( I have heard this has changed??)
  Here in South Central Alaska, where pike are non-native, they are considered vermin, and you can use anything short of dynamite to get 'em, (ADFG themselves use poison).  So I always have bait on a hook in the hole as well as the decoy. ( This has led to a couple "puppet shows" as I've tried to manuever the decoy line, bait line and the spear when a fish comes in ) I can honestly say, I've gotten more fish coming to the decoy than the bait, but I have hooked several also.
  I'm not a "purist", but I do love to see 'em come into to my own hand carved decoy and drop the hammer on them the most, then again I don't mind pulling one out on the rod and reel either.
  If you're allowed to use hooks, do you? , and what kind of lure are you using?
  One thing we can't do here is use live bait, but a live sucker on a hook would damn near be my version of the "Perfect Pike Bait" for the Darkhouse here.

[darkhousefisher]

In MT I always used a live decoy with a hook through it just in case they took the decoy while I wasn't paying attention in addition to the live decoI always had a jigging pole in the spear hole for perch. 
Here in AK I always have a jigging pole down the spear hole set up for anything else that might want to grab it.

[SkeeterMN]

From the Minnesota Fishing Regs:

• A person may take fish by angling in a dark house if only one angling
line is in use and any fish caught is immediately released or placed on
the ice. For more information see the DNR Web site.
• Nonresidents may not spear from a dark house.
• Using an artificial light to see fish when spearing is unlawful. Lighted
decoys are legal to use. Any battery that is used in lighted decoys new
cannot contain any intentionally introduced mercury.

That's pretty much all there is specific to spearing, other than shelter requirements and such.

I interpret that to mean yes, you can have a hook.

We still can't use dynamite though. 

[BuschWhacker]

From the Minnesota Fishing Regs:

• A person may take fish by angling in a dark house if only one angling
line is in use

So I take it to mean one or the other, ie with hook or without, not one of each.  Or does the hookless deke not count as an angling line?  Here we're allowed up to five lines on some pike lakes, so I've always put out four tip-ups, plus a baited hooked rig and the hookless deke in the hole, so actually 6 lines in the water, perhaps I'm teetering on the edge of lawlessness here....   So far have never been confronted by F&G.
Has that always been the case in MN, and I was missing some of those "smash-and-runs" or is that something that has changed since I left?

[Hard_H2O]

So I take it to mean one or the other, ie with hook or without, not one of each.  Or does the hookless deke not count as an angling line?  Here we're allowed up to five lines on some pike lakes, so I've always put out four tip-ups, plus a baited hooked rig and the hookless deke in the hole, so actually 6 lines in the water, perhaps I'm teetering on the edge of lawlessness here....   So far have never been confronted by F&G.
Has that always been the case in MN, and I was missing some of those "smash-and-runs" or is that something that has changed since I left?

From: http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/regulations/fishing/spearing/index.html

2006 legislative change - Spearing/angling
97C.371 SPEARING FISH.

Subd. 3. Restrictions while spearing from dark house. A person may not take fish by angling or the use of tip-ups while spearing fish in a dark house, except that a person may take fish by angling if only one angling line is in use and any fish caught by angling is immediately
released to the water or placed on the ice.


Frequently asked questions (faq)

WHILE SPEARING, CAN YOU USE A TIP-UP?

Yes. While spearing, a person may use one angling line or one tip-up. The angling line or tip-up may be inside the house or outside the house.


IS IT PERMISSIBLE TO JIG OR USE A SPOON IN THE SAME HOLE USED FOR SPEARING?

Yes. A person may angle and spear at the same time, and may angle and spear in the same hole.


IS IT PERMISSIBLE TO HAVE A HOOK EMBEDDED IN A SUCKER BEING USED AS BAIT?

Yes. A person may angle and spear at the same time, a sucker minnow may be used as bait for angling. If a sucker, being used as spearing decoy, has a hook in it, that sucker/hook will constitute the one angling line which can be used while spearing.

THE LAW REQUIRES ANY FISH CAUGHT BY ANGLING (WHILE SPEARING) TO BE IMMEDIATELY RELEASED TO THE WATER OR PLACED ON THE ICE.


DOES THAT REQUIREMENT APPLY TO FISH THAT ARE SPEARED?

No. That specific requirement is limited to fish taken by angling.


CAN THE FISH BE IN A BUCKET THAT'S ON THE ICE, ON THE FLOOR OF THE HOUSE, OR IN A COOLER?

The purpose of this requirement is to prevent leaving game fish on the angling line in the water serving as bait. "On the ice" means not in the water, and can reasonably include being in a bucket, cooler, or on the floor of the house. The fish can be placed either
inside the house or outside of the house.


IS IT PERMISSIBLE TO HAVE MORE THAN ONE SPEAR OR ONE ANGLING LINE IN THE HOUSE AT THE SAME TIME?

Each person may use one angling line while spearing. If two people are in a house and only one of them is spearing, the person spearing may use one angling line, and the person not spearing may use two angling lines. It is also permissible to have additional spears and angling equipment in possession in the house provided such equipment is not in use.

Rev. 12-8-2006/13:35

[BuschWhacker]

Thanks HardH2O, that cleared it up for me.  I wonder what finally changed MN DNR's mind ?  I spent a lot of my younger years there "wishing" I could use hooks on my live decoys for those days when they'd come in the hole, smash the deke and leave.  Our regs. here aren't as clear when it comes to spearing/angling or the difference between the two, I am still operating under the assumption the hookless deke doesn't count as a line in the water, and will still put out my tip-ups and have a hook in the hole.

[Hard_H2O]

Thanks HardH2O, that cleared it up for me.  I wonder what finally changed MN DNR's mind ?  I spent a lot of my younger years there "wishing" I could use hooks on my live decoys for those days when they'd come in the hole, smash the deke and leave.  Our regs. here aren't as clear when it comes to spearing/angling or the difference between the two, I am still operating under the assumption the hookless deke doesn't count as a line in the water, and will still put out my tip-ups and have a hook in the hole.

Have you e-mailed the DNR? They are usually real quick to answer questions.

The way I read it is that a decoy without hooks plus a spear is being treated as one of your lines. You can put down one additional line in the water if you have a hookless decoy in use with your spear. If you add hooks to your decoy that becomes an angling line and your spear is the other. If your decoy has hooks you can't put down an additional angling line.

If it were me I would e-mail the DNR if I needed clarification. They are the ones who are going to be interpreting the law on the ice.

[darkhousefisher]

Our regs. here aren't as clear when it comes to spearing/angling or the difference between the two, I am still operating under the assumption the hookless deke doesn't count as a line in the water, and will still put out my tip-ups and have a hook in the hole.

I think you are correct in your assumptions.  I called AGF&G in Febuary of 08 and asked if my spear counted as a line and they said no it didn't.  They said I could have my five tip-ups out for pike plus my spear.  Unless something has changed and they didn't put it in the new regs, that should still be true.

[hillmann]

You guys seem to have the same problems I have, for the last five or six years I call the local game worden with questions about wheather something is leagel about three time a year, asking questions about anything from bow huntinh to trapping to spearing and netting. And he has only twice been able to give me a definitive answer every other time he has to look into, call me back a week later(by then I have already done it and gotten away with it so it dossen't matter) and tells me he's not sure it dependes on what laws you are reading and what very specific deffinitions of words mean. Kinda like "that depends on what the deffinition of 'is' is"  So I juist wright down the date and the wardens name that way if I get coughd doing something that another warden thinks is illeagal I have proof that I thought other wise.