Electronics Opinions for PA waters.

[markk]

Hi All,
I am interested in getting a marcum or showdown unit and have a few questions for those of you interested in giving your opinions.  My first question refers to the transducer.  The lower cost units offer a 20 degree  and the higher end version offer a dual 20/9.  My question is this:  At what depth does the 9 degree come into play?  In PA, how often do you find yourself using the 9 degree cone?  It seems that from everything I read, almost all of the fishing is in 30 feet of water or less.  Is this true, and if so, is it even worth getting a dual beam?  My other question pertains to the accuracy of the readings given by the different units.  For instance my son has a Marcum LX1 and it has 2 inches of target separation.  The Showdown says it has 1/2 inch of separation.  Where does this come into play.  If you are fishing for perch, for instance, how does the extra precision help you, or really make a difference under normal conditions?    All thoughts, advise and opinions welcome.  Thanks.
Markk

[dkfry]

I use the 9 degree I would say 95% of the time and that includes in shallow water.

[Artjr]

markk
I might be seriously confused but I just got a new Marcum VX-1 Pro and this is what the manual tells you about cone angle

Cone Angle Coverage - The cone angle of all VX-1P transducers is 20
degrees. The approximate area of coverage with a 20 degree transducer is
determined by dividing the depth by 3 (in 30 feet of water your area of coverage
is approximately 10’). 
 Since 9 degrees is less you would have a much smaller coverage area in shallower water. Even in 10FT of water a 20 degree cone is only a couple of feet with a 9 degree you would be down to inches. But I could be wrong?

[dkfry]

The cone angle calculations are not cut and dry. The cone angle is not completely cone shaped and bottom contour can throw a wrench in coverage. I have all three cone angles and as I said before I use the 9 degree the most even in 5 or 6 FOW. If you fish in a lot of cover that is another reason to have the narrower beam angle. I also get a stronger signal with the narrower angle thus have to use less gain. I lent my dad my 12 degree ducer because his 19 degree is not optimal at all. It is nice to have options so I would get a dual beam ducer.

Here is some more info on cone angle.
http://vexilar.com/info/choosing-a-transducer-beam-angle-2/

[chez]

mark a friend of mine bought a show down last year. as soon as he reads this post of yours im sure he will get back to you.he loves his.i have a vexalar FL18. i would never trade it for anything.its 9 years old now and runs like the day i bought it.they are a little more pricy than the showdowns but, i love them.me and my older son both have vexilars my youngest son has a hummingbird it stinks.he wants a showdown.his birthday is in november.we are chipping in to get him one.good luck with what ever you buy.

[bpiatt]

9 degree transducers are not just for deep water. If your in a very weedy area the 9 degree cone will reduce clutter and give you a more accurate reading. The 9 degree cone will also benefit you if there is large rocks underneath you, if there is a boulder, stump, or any type of structure below you then a 20 degree cone could give you an in accurate bottom reading. Steep drop offs can also give you false bottom readings on a 20 degree transducer, the 9 will be much more accurate on steep drop offs. A 20 degree cone might tell you the bottom is the top of the structure when in reality its a few feet deeper. The narrower cone will miss the rock or structure where a wider beam will pick it up. The target seperation is how close two objects can be before the flasher shows them as one object. The better the target seperation the more you can distinguish multiple fish from one fish. It will also let you know that when a fish and your jig turn into one solid line that its 1/2in from your lure and is about to strike. On birds and vexs the jig and fish turn into one line at 2-2.5inches and the fish could just be hovering and not striking. Better target seperation also helps you identify larger fish within schools.

[Byron/PA]

dkfry and bpiatt both hit the nail on the head.

[Chris338378]

I'm Chez's friend who bought a Showdown Dual Beam last year and can't say enough good things about it.  Prior to getting my Showdown I never used any kind of electronics for ice fishing and I spend a good amount of time making my decission on which one to get.  After doing hours of research I was down to a Marcum LX3 and the Showdown Dual Beam because of the features and my budget.  I ended up going with the Showdown Dual beam because it has the dual beam transducer, more power, and it just seemed a lot easier to learn and get use to.  As I said I never used a flasher or sonar before and I liked the Showdown because the screen is simple, top is top and bottom is bottom.  With a flasher you're looking at a circle of flashing lights which seemed confusing to me having to figure out what depth the light was flashing at and so on.  When it came to the power issue the Showdown has 4000 watts peak to peak power opposed to 2500 watts peak to peak with the LX5.  From everything I've read the more power the more accurate the unit.  As for the ability to switch from 8 degree to 20 degree beams I thought of it this way, always better to have and not need rather than want and not have.  Sure the 8 degree beam is narrower and a lot of people say use it for deeper water but you can use it in shallow water, nothing says you can't.  As said before structure can affect how accurate your readings are.  For an example say you're fishing a lake with lots of stumps, the stumps will show up on your display, if you only have the 20 degree beam you're stuck but if you have the 8 degree beam you can, "focus" your beam so you can get closer to the stump and still have accurate readings.  It would kinda be like a maglight flashlight, stand by a tree and adjust the beam of light to flood - you'll see the tree trunk form further away but if you tighten the beam light up you can be closer to the stump before the light hits the tree trunk.  The same thing happens when you switch from 20 degree beam (wider) and the 8 degree beam (smaller).  Another reason I went with the Showdown is because it has 1/2 inch of target seperation.  If you want to see more about the Showdown Dual beam there is videos in Youtube about it and one shows a guy fishing next to a tree with the narrow beam on and explaining the advantage of having dual beams.

[markk]

Hey Everybody,
Thank you for all the replies and all the good info and advise.  I did go on to youtube and found videos that discuss the different uses for the cone angles.  I am really leaning towards the showdown dual beam.  By the way, I also found some pretty good ice fishing videos on youtube under in-depth outdoors.  The guys are from Minnesota or Wisconsin and the show is sort of like in-fisherman.  Thanks again for all the help.
Markk

[Chris338378]

Any time Buddy, glad I could help you out.  As I said you can't go wrong with a Showdown Dual Beam.  The first time I used mine I picked up a four inch perch and watched it rise up and take my jig.  The one thing I noticed is I had a typo on the power it's not 4,000 watts peak to peak, it's 8,000 watts peak to peak.  Please let us know what you decide and no matter what you decide good luck with it. By the way, welcome to the site, glad to have you, and maybe we'll run into you out on the ice.  Have a great year with lots of ice, fish, and flags.   

[Artjr]

Hey thanks guys, I am newbie so I was just reading the manual. What you posted makes perfect sense! Thanks learned a lot!

[Chris338378]

That's a great point that I didn't even think of Artjr.  You can go to Marcum's website and download the manual and read over it to see how easy it is to use.  Here's the link to the Showdown Dual Beam owner's manual.

http://www.marcumtech.com/Portals/1/ShowDown%20DualBeam.pdf

Marcum's website.

http://www.rapala.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-rapala-Site/default/Home-Show?id=10

[Chris338378]

I just found that if you buy a LX-3, LX-5, Showdown, or Showdown Dual Beam you get a FREE Rapal Ice Force Tackle that's worth $79.99.  Here's the link to the rebate form.

http://demandware.edgesuite.net/aagv_prd/on/demandware.static/Sites-rapala-Site/Sites-rapala-Library/default/v1350415113601/downloads/marcum/ice-force-marcum-rebate.pdf?id=20