Georgetown Lake issues

[missoulafish]

A family member talked to a Warden at G-town. According to him there is a known "issue" with the current surviveabilty of Salmon and Brook trout in the lake. This is directly related to the low numbers of both species  being caught the last two years. Anyone heard same or something similar?

[coldcreekchris]

haven't heard that...wonder what coulda happened and if the issue is "known"..what is it?...caught many brookies for years..some monsters..then a few years back they felt good enough to let you keep 2..haven't caught one this year...and the salmon..last couple years real slow....did catch 50 last week..kept 30....but that's been one of the better days in awhile... I wonder if they are still stocking at a past rate....maybe the current put back doesn't take into consideration current harvest.....i'll be interested to see whats going on myself...mfish .inbox full..

[hi_tail]

Hey Fish,
Would you mind embellishing a bit on the "issue?"
From what you've heard, are you insinuating that the Koke & Brook count may be down based soley on harvest numbers according to a GT warden?

[JohnMcN1]

Two years ago, I found a dead northern pike on the ice at Sunnyside. Left it there. I reported it to the game warden. They had a ton of questions verifying I knew what a pike was and made sure it wasn’t a lake trout. They couldn’t locate the fish on the ice. He also said they had reports from other fisherman seeing pike through in their holes. Could this be the “issue?”

[Lsranger406]

oh man pike. That would not be a good thing for the lake. But if true bet theres a couple monsters waiting to be caught

[icefishmissoula]

I know that we have been talking about the difference in numbers and size of salmon being caught the two past years and the people getting out there know when something is off. If there’s pike in there they must not be going near comers or sunnyside  because someone would have seen them looking down their hole. It was clear to me that there didn’t seem to be a new age class of salmon two years ago. I caught good numbers and they were “much” bigger than any years before that I fished. The past two years, numbers have been down the salmon definitely bigger but there were clearly 2 age classes of salmon. If people did bucket biology and put something in Georgetown then it is a sad day for ice fisherman. Georgetown is an excellent place to get people addicted to the sport and conservation. 

[MTmarabou]

If there is pike in there in 2 years we wont be caughting any fish. I fished in nebraska in a lake that had tons of pan fish then they put pike in the lake and it destroyed the fish in 2 years.

[missoulafish]

down based soley on harvest numbers according to a GT warden?

No.   From what i understand there is some other underlying issue(biological) causing low brookt trout and salmon numbers.  Harvest has nothing to do with the numbers being, what appears to be, "down"..
We all know wardens arent biologist but from what he said it sounds like they are aware or something happening in the lake....

[Cold toes]

Looks like the annual gill net survey was down across the board. Only 59 kokes this fall vs 310 in '15, 259 in '13 and 550 in '11. Would definitely say something has happened to the stock: poor recruitment year, introduction of Arlee bows. But seeing as the brookie and rainbow counts are down too suggests some kind of system wide change.

[coldcreekchris]

what underlying biological issue can affect the kokes and brooks?but not the rainbows..not being pessimistic..but man somebody should let us know....i am intrigued and wondering what that could be...could possibly this be Obama's fault..when he left office..did he take the salmon with him?

[vicster]

I don't know what the water temps have been getting to in the summer recently compared to historical averages but rainbows would handle higher temps than Brookies or kokes....  Georgetown is high elevation but it's also shallow and our summers haven't been getting any cooler.

[Zfishes]

I am primarily and by choice a sight fisherman.
Personal observation and catching of some of the smallest and biggest kokes of the last six years. I have observed several age classes of rainbow and salmon.

[WilleyBooger]

If you catch a northern pike, or find a dead northern pike at Georgetown, you should bring it to a FWP office. If you don't have the time to go to a FWP office, bring the pike home and put it in your freezer, and tell FWP you have it and they can pick it up. As a minimum, take a picture of it and email it to the FWP Region 2 office. They'd really like to know if there are northerns in Georgetown.

There was a rumor going around about 10-12 years ago that some northerns had been caught in Georgetown. When FWP was sent pictures of these northerns, they identified the fish as lake trout. A former fishery manager (now retired) for Georgetown said he used to wake up in a cold sweat from a recurring nightmare that someone had stocked northerns in Georgetown.

If anyone knows what the "issue(s)" is, please let us know! I'd really like to know.

[Wapiti406]

If you catch a northern pike, or find a dead northern pike at Georgetown, you should bring it to a FWP office. If you don't have the time to go to a FWP office, bring the pike home and put it in your freezer, and tell FWP you have it and they can pick it up. As a minimum, take a picture of it and email it to the FWP Region 2 office. They'd really like to know if there are northerns in Georgetown.

There was a rumor going around about 10-12 years ago that some northerns had been caught in Georgetown. When FWP was sent pictures of these northerns, they identified the fish as lake trout. A former fishery manager (now retired) for Georgetown said he used to wake up in a cold sweat from a recurring nightmare that someone had stocked northerns in Georgetown.

If anyone knows what the "issue(s)" is, please let us know! I'd really like to know.

We hear things like this every 5-10 years.  I've lived in Anaconda all my life, and I usually just kind of dismiss the rumors when they come through.  I've heard about pike as well as perch being caught out of GTL, and while I realize how dire the consequences would be, the truth is that if there are enough of those fish in the lake that people are catching them, then the problem is already too far gone to control. 

I would really like to know what is happening to the salmon, though.  I've caught a few this year.  Compared to previous years, the schools that come in are very small, maybe 5-10 fish. 

[pmmpete]

If you catch a northern pike, or find a dead northern pike at Georgetown, you should bring it to a FWP office. If you don't have the time to go to a FWP office, bring the pike home and put it in your freezer, and tell FWP you have it and they can pick it up. As a minimum, take a picture of it and email it to the FWP Region 2 office. They'd really like to know if there are northerns in Georgetown.

There was a rumor going around about 10-12 years ago that some northerns had been caught in Georgetown. When FWP was sent pictures of these northerns, they identified the fish as lake trout. A former fishery manager (now retired) for Georgetown said he used to wake up in a cold sweat from a recurring nightmare that someone had stocked northerns in Georgetown.

A couple of questions:
1. How could anybody mistake a lake trout for a pike?
2. Which would be worse for the kokanee population in Georgetown Lake, having pike in the lake or having lake trout in the lake?
3. Could lake trout get from Silver Lake to Georgetown Lake without human assistance?  Lake trout migrated up the Swan River from Swan Lake to Holland Lake and Lindbergh Lake.  Several years ago I found (actually bit on) a passive integrated transponder (PIT) in a lake trout I caught in Lindbergh Lake.  The trout had been tagged some years earlier in Swan Lake.  But Georgetown Lake might be too shallow and warm to develop a permanent lake trout population.

[Wapiti406]

A couple of questions:
1. How could anybody mistake a lake trout for a pike?
2. Which would be worse for the kokanee population in Georgetown Lake, having pike in the lake or having lake trout in the lake?
3. Could lake trout get from Silver Lake to Georgetown Lake without human assistance?  Lake trout migrated up the Swan River from Swan Lake to Holland Lake and Lindbergh Lake.  Several years ago I found (actually bit on) a passive integrated transponder (PIT) in a lake trout I caught in Lindbergh Lake.  The trout had been tagged some years earlier in Swan Lake.  But Georgetown Lake might be too shallow and warm to develop a permanent lake trout population.

When Silver is at it's fullest there is a creek that connects the two lakes, known as Hardtla Creek.  There are also several ponds that fill up in the space between Silver and GTL.  It is uncommon, but not unheard of, to see lakers pulled out of Georgetown.  I agree that the lake trout would have a very difficult time breeding in Georgetown.

[missoulafish]

 The rate and I hear Macs being caught in Georgetown is steadily increasing over the past few years though ...

[ftownfisherman]

salmon fishing was awesome on flathead lake back in the late 70's early 80's till the macks took over....

[pmmpete]

In Flathead Lake, an excellent kokanee fishery co-existed with a modest lake trout population for many decades until the Mysis shrimp population exploded in 1985-1989, which resulted in an increase in lake trout numbers and destruction of the kokanee fishery.  See a very interesting short article on "Long term consequences of non-native species introductions to Flathead Lake" at http://mtprof.msun.edu/Fall2012/ellis.html .

There are lakes where good kokanee populations co-exist with significant lake trout populations, such as Odell Lake in Washington. But the outstanding kokanee fishery in Holter and Hauser Lakes appears to have been wrecked by the Walleyes. Every lake is different.

[406fishy]

If that was the case that rumor would already be out there I imagine.

[BK_Fisherman]

As far as any “new” issues impacting Georgetown, I am not aware of any. However, Georgetown is a complex watershed and an anomaly in some regards. It’s important to realize that it’s a reservoir and not a naturally occurring body of water adding to its complexity.

Here’s an article from 2013 that highlights many of the “issues” with Georgetown and many of the unique factors at play:

http://missoulian.com/lifestyles/recreation/researchers-make-odd-findings-at-georgetown-lake/article_963f6a4a-86e7-11e2-abcc-001a4bcf887a.html

[Gone_fishing]

I be no means claim to be a biologist but I  was looking at stocking data for various lakes I fish and noticed they've been stocking "Gerrard" rainbows in GT. I wasn't familiar with that strain so did a quick Google and first article talked about this strain being different fro other rainbows strain because they prefer to eat kokane as supposed to crustaceans and insects. Not saying this is whats up with the kokane numbers but did find it interesting

[icefishmissoula]

Thanks for the update! Group went out last weekend and almost got skunked which is just insane for Georgetown.

[WilleyBooger]

I emailed Mr. Brad Liermann, the FWP fisheries biologist for G'Town, about the "issue". He sent a lengthy response; here is a brief summary:

Kokanees - the numbers of kokanees are not down based on their gill net surveys, even though the catch in 2017 was 2/3 of the 15 year average: "... not out of the normal for fluctuations that we expect to see in wild fish populations and normal variation we see in gill net catch rates." He said he has received complaints from several anglers that the catch rate for kokanees has been down the last two winters. He does not know why anglers are not catching them although the kokanees are there. Large variations in catch rates from year to year of kokanees seems to be common in other lakes in Montana and surrounding states: "it appears that variability in angler catch rates is not an uncommon thing for kokanee."

Brook trout numbers are down, based on their gill net surveys, about 50% down. He does not know why: "I am again unsure about what is going on here." He wrote that the low gill net survey count may have been an anomaly.

He did not mention any particular issue with the survivability of kokanees and brook trout in G'town.  He will continue to monitor catch rates and fish populations.

[missoulafish]

WileyB - thanks for commenting on this. I had some things to add but I forgot to comment.
I talked to a  couple wardens that are working the Georgetown area and Jim Vashro.
I had never heard this but two years ago apparently there was a winter kill or some kind of kill that killed a bunch of salmon. Im guessing it was an oxygen issue as salmon are more affected by oxygen levels than other species it seems ( the reason the stratify at certain depths), but who knows. The warden that saw the dead fish said that he saw thousands of dead fish at the Denton area alone.
I think Jim said he asked Brad about the gill net  surveys as well and he did say the same thing, that fall sampling was definitely low but not out of the ordinary in the big picture.
Jim mentioned a few years ago, regarding fishing LMR, that creel surveys were very, very low and fishermen thought all the salmon had died. The entire winter had very low catch rates and then spring showed up and all of a sudden fishing was great. The fish were just somewhere else over the winter.
Georgetown is a good sized lake and people congregate in 5-6 areas. 95% of the lake doesnt even get fished in the winter. Thats a lot of water to hide fish.
The wardens also mentioned that while they had seen low catch rates they also were still seeing people catching "buckets" of fish...
One more thing... they also as mentioned, are planting a species of rainbow that is more predatory and capable of getting much bigger than the typical rainbows Georgetown typically kicks out.

[Perch-Eye]

''Georgetown is a good sized lake and people congregate in 5-6 areas. 95% of the lake doesn't even get fished in the winter. That's a lot of water to hide fish''.


This sounds like what is going on at Holter this year.


Ken........