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The winter is when most use electronic flashers and the fish are harder for most to catch...In the summer sure the fish are easier to catch but most guys i know do not fish panfish in the summer. Mainly because of increased costs.... you have the cost of a boat and electronics such as a 360 setup, then gas, insurance, and whatever other expenses. Not many can afford setups like that for pan fishing and the ones that can bass fish. The amish do not have 30k rigs to fish out of so really the only time the fish are vulnerable is spawn. Put a limit during the spawn and leave the rest of the season alone.I know you fish bass tournaments and are use to fishing with guys that have high dollar rigs with thousands in electronics. You guys do not target anything but bass 99% of the time. I know because I use to strictly be all about bass fishing. However 99% of all guys that target panfish have small boats with very primitive electronics around here. When Stinky and I go vertical jigging, 1 out of a 100 boats is equipped with the electronics he has. If panfish fishing had the same anglers that fish bass during the open water, then yes I would be worried. So no I do not see electronics causing any issue with panfish populations in Indiana during any part of the season.
Well now I see why you have said what you did, but I don't see that same thing going on in the lakes I fish. Yes I see amish on the beds raping them, but I also see lots of guys in nice aluminum boats with electronics (not SI or 360), that catch a lot of suspended fish. You don't need a fancy rig to catch fish. I fished for gills 3 times last summer. I went out in a pontoon with no electronics, anchored up in an area we know schools of gills frequent over deep water and caught 62, 68, and 68 with my mom in those 3 outings that lasted about 3 hours each. As SI drops in price more will buy them if they think it will increase the catch. 360 will be available thru the ice in the next 5 years and it won't cost 1000's either. That will change the game on the ice too. Nothing wrong with the DNR trying to stay ahead of the curve. Limiting someone to 25 gills should not be an issue for those that are able to find fish. There are plenty of crappie and perch to chase once you have your 25. It works just fine elsewhere, yet some still think lakes are going to stunt because of it. It does not work that way.
You went to a spot that you know holds fish from past experience...completel y different. Going and finding suspended fish on various bodies of water is different and you need good electronics to find them. You also are in the 10% of anglers that catch fish. most do not go out and catch 62, 68, and 68 in 3 outings let alone a season and if they do it is normally during spawn. I take enough fish from the spots to know that it is not hurting a thing. Fishing is on the decline...less licenses are being sold, so the entire electronics debate is still moot because there is less anglers on the water anyway. so even if a certain percentage buys the electronics it's not going to do any significant damage. We can each find angles to support our theory till we are blue in the face. The difference here is some look at the glass being half full the others look at it being half empty.
I haven't read every post. Most do have some good points and should be brought up. Make sure you read the post I stickied at the top with dates of DNR Meetings.
Yes I knew of the area as it has held fish there for 40+ years, but with today's electronics, one drive by with side imaging and anyone could find that area on the lake and see the schools of fish. It is just infinitely easier to find fish today than it was in the past. Heck hummingbird now has technology that when fishing you can hit a button and the finder will highlight other areas on the lake with the same structure, depth, contour, etc....It basically tells you where to look to establish a pattern on any given BOW.I am not a glass half empty person. I will catch fish limit or not. I would be happy if they found a way to protect the gills during the spawn and then left it as is the rest of the year. There are fish to be caught, but I also know that limits on gills DO NOT cause the size structure in a lake to decline unless something else is out of whack like to much spawning area, too many weeds, lack of natural predators (8-14" bass, crappies, perch, pike, etc.). If it did there would be no lakes in Michigan and Minn worth a crap and the reality is the opposite. The Michigan lakes are full of very large panfish. Crappies have a limit on them and yet their size does not diminish due to the limit. The same will hold true for gills.As for less licenses and electronics, I liken that to using rocks as a weapon vs. a machine gun. You can have 100 guys throwing rocks doing little damage, but one guy with a machine gun can wreck havoc. So less fishermen on the water than 10,20 or 30 years ago does not mean much to me, because with today's tools one person can do the 'damage' of 10 to 20 in years past.
I don't think it's because anglers are complaining about a tough bite. After all, this proposal has made the rounds for what, 4-5 years now? I also can't see the DNR instituting a policy that they know would be detrimental, just because folks were prodding them too. I think they have some data that suggests, to them anyway, that the time for instituting a limit draws near.
DNR are just the policing of the laws just like Excise is the policing of the laws sure they have input but it's very little. Look at deer harvesting obviously insurance companies with big money have huge pull on decision making. I'm not saying anyone cares about panfish limits enough to pump huge amounts of money into the pockets of those creating the laws but don't think for a minute the DNR just make laws based on what is best for the environment or any species within.
Again your assuming everyone can catch fish when they cant.
I've caught just as many fish with electronics than without in the summertime just drifting using setups like Bos Bluegill Busters just drifting around. Electronics through the ice has definetely helped but as I've stated earlier 20 guys all with electronics marking fish and only 2 catching.
Michigan is Michigan I'm still not impressed with their size I'd say limits did nothing for the quality of size of fish It's lake specific like you've stated and is dependent on many other factors besides limits. Wawasee produces huge harvests every year and there's nothing wrong with the quality of fish it produces. If it's not broke don't fix it.
It's just like any other sport. Just because I go out and buy a pair of Jordans doesn't mean I'm going to be dunking the ball and whooping up on the guys at the Y any time soon. I go out and buy the best clubs on the market doesn't mean I'm going out and knocking points off my game. I golf very rarely and if I do it's in a scramble and I'm just enjoying the day. There's a ton of people that go fishing just to enjoy the day if they catch a few it's the bonus. Electronics is just to see if there's fish there just like there's electronics like range finders to show how far away I am from a golf flag. I'll tell you right now that I can't pick up a club and consistently hit the ball to that distance that the range finder reads. I don't practice golf I play once every three years maybe. Fishing on the other hand. I go over 4 times a week on the average I'm guessing and everyday I'm a sponge soaking up mother nature's schooling in my spare time it's fishing videos books and dvds on aquatic insects because if I find the buffets and target the lakes rich in food and the rest of what it takes for big thick panfish then I'm upping my chances of catching quality fish. Even with Humingbird style electronics for boats that's a whole other course that needs to be studied and learned how to be used. Wax makes it sound easy. It is for him because he's used to it. Way more complicated than a flip of a switch from a vexilar. I'm a hard learn though not a computer genius by any means. I just don't see the electronics being the huge factor into catching is just another tool used in fishing the angler first has to know how to catch the fish regardless of the weather or the bite before electronics is going to help their catch rates imo.
I'm just not buying it I see plenty of decked out boats on the lake that cone to the launch with zero fish or barely any. Sure gills will bite when the bite is on but when it's not they don't hit the average bait and bobber setup I know it and you know it. As far as pure Michigan if there's toad lakes there's toad lakes. You guys goto Michigan to chase some big crappie but those same size crappie are in Indiana. You can goto either place with ease no big deal you fish tourneys up there so you already have dual licenses. To drive to Michigan to target 25 gills makes about zero sense unless your looking for ice to fish early season or you live on the border. I haven't seen piles of 9.5s to 10s on any Michigan board. I've seen some pics posted on this board from guys going to Michigan that weren't any bigger than what I'm catching already so I just don't see the toad miracle that you think a limit creates. I talked to hundreds of people at the D&R Ice Show and got the same replies as Indiana oh we catch 8s mainly good days 9s and a few 10s. It's a tough bite though. Same story different state. Your right however guys do laugh at D&R in the rigging department at how many guys think electronics is the magic light switch as its not. It's just another tool. KVD whooped the living crap out of bass tourneys all through out Michigan obviously everyone had the same equipment so I would say skill and knowing how was his secret to winning the tourneys. You think everyone has that skill set and they don't.
Wax, show me pics of all the 9-10.5" + gills you or anybody else caught this year in Michigan through the Ice. I have yet to see any messes caught by anybody fishing Michigan that were nicer then what we have been catching in Indiana. I do agree there are some lakes in Michigan producing big gills but the same goes for Indiana.
Lol one and two 10 inch gills amongst some pig crappie. Catch all the pig crappies we care to catch and a few 10s too so now Michigan's mystery 10s can only be caught in softwater? I thought it was loaded with them wth? Now we have to wait until soft water to see them off the beds?
Never seen any one fishing for pigs and toads , Toads are nasty and pigs don't swim. I don't see crappie having a place in this 'disagreement' due to the fact that there is a 25 fish limit on them in the Hoosier state, and people catch a lot of big crappie 16" plus. One fact remains constant, large bodies of water can sustain fishing pressure/harvest at a far greater amount than a small BOW. I know of several small lakes (under 80 acres) that have diminished populations of gills and crappies. These lakes years past had very little pressure except for locals and the Amish/Menn's. We would go during the week and/or on weekends and not encounter other people fishing. Over the past five years these same lakes so crowded we haven't been able to access because the launch site filled with rigs. Not just bobber flingers; people trolling, vertical jigging, spider rigging, and casting artificials. Have seen the same thing taking place during hard water season. I used to go and maybe see one-two other people. Past three years seeing 20+ people fishing, and they were catching fish. A blanket law that covers all is not answer, should be a lake by lake prospect.
Bah I can go bed rape a lake with big toad pigs gills in Indiana but choose not to. I've seen those pics. It's not anything I'd call impressive it's another fillet for the skillet or carcass for the garden. Even if Michigan fish were a half inch bigger or even an inch overall why would I even bother driving up there for gills? That extra inch doesn't do me any good and the best eaters are the 8s to 9s and many love the 7s to 8s that use the scaling machines. You posted pics of Michigan crappies nice fish but again Slayer myself River Scum Pole Cat Chica Angola Jones and numerous of others catch plenty of pig crappie in Indiana. Like you said why would I leave fish to go to another state to catch fish? Pure Michigan.... I call it pure horse hockey!
Fishgate!! Limits play a small almost non existent part of large fish. It's lake specific not every lake can produce giants. You act like a 25 limit is the answer for endless giants across the board and we all know that's not the case. If you can show me every lake in Michigan has prospered with the 25 limit then great for Michigan. If you can't fish Indiana and catch gills to fry up that's a personal issue. I don't need to drive to Michigan to catch panfish. They are called panfish because they belong in a PAN. I'm not in pursuit of the 12" gill could care less. I'll go steel head fishing for a true fight. Some will whine saying you should turn the 10s back into the lake because of the genetics for future generations. As far as fishing pressure where is the pressure? 60000 less hunting and fishing licenses sold last year than 10 years ago. Kids play online video games the majority dont fish anymore. Crappies are a great example of why limits don't play the only roll in size. There's dink lakes and trophy lakes for crappie. It's all based per lake period imo. Just like there's lakes with great quality bass then there's lakes with so many dinks they lowered the size limit.Add this to your finger count of 10" fish. Just cause most don't catch them doesn't mean they don't exist. This is a common sight for us. Maybe switching up lakes might help. [URL=http://s969.photobucket.com/user/pikeark/media/20141008_172419_zpsuoidaitv.jpg.html]