SURVIVAL RATE????

[abishop]

So what do you think/really??? If they stock 1,000,000, walleye each year into a lake that does not have a spawn, how many do you think will actually make it to the 14 inch keeper size? Also, how many years does it take a walleye to grow to 14 inches? Given all the variables  (on average). I have a pretty good idea but, just want to get other opinions on the subject matter. Thanks..

[libo]

if they are stocked as fry very few will make it, 7 to8 inchers do alot better but costly to raise to that size. some lakes have a lot better growth rate then others. hard to tell.

[northrn-duck-assassin]

AL, this is kind of off topic, but i feel they need to get a better population of baitfish in that lake first, but, also only so much u can do on a non-spawn lake.

[sprkplug]

You're right...lots of variables.

1) What size are the stocker walleyes?
2) What other predatory species are present in the BOW, and in what sizes.
3) How much forage is available for the walleye?
4) What size is the BOW in question, surface area and max depth?

If a Walleye, (or Largemouth bass) is to gain one pound of body weight, then it may need to consume ten pounds of forage....the conversion ratio is often stated as 10:1, although other factors may influence this.

Rough estimate, assuming adequate forage exists, I would say 4-6" per year?

[Joe2727]

I'm sorry for this I should know this,but what is a non spawn lake.

[wax_worm]

I'm sorry for this I should know this,but what is a non spawn lake.

A lake where walleyes don't have the abilty to spawn do to lack of proper habitat or moving water, etc.  Bass lake is a prime example.  They may try to spawn there, but the success rate is so low or non existent that the lake is a pretty much a put and take fishery. 

[wax_worm]

So what do you think/really??? If they stock 1,000,000, walleye each year into a lake that does not have a spawn, how many do you think will actually make it to the 14 inch keeper size? Also, how many years does it take a walleye to grow to 14 inches? Given all the variables  (on average). I have a pretty good idea but, just want to get other opinions on the subject matter. Thanks..

If put in as fry the survival rate is somewhere between 0 and 1%, but for bass it is probably on the low end.  The lack of weeds in the lake provides little cover to hide and when a lake has perch, bass and crappie in it, the fry will be gobbled up if they can't hide.  Dnr should have some numbers on Bass lake as to how long they take to get 14", but from the pics I have seen of fish from there they look pretty skinny, so the growth rate there may be slightly below the 'normal' curve too.  I would email the biologist in charge of Bass and get his input.

[marmooskapaul]

Here is a question. after seeing how many fish can fit in the stomach of a 20" walleye. How many fish does a walleye that grows to 28" consume in it's life time???10,000...15,000??? a bunch, I know that...
Paul

[walleyepac]

You take a lake like Indian lake in Ohio, they stock an avg of 700,000 PR yr , fry, not fingerlings and they estimated about 2-3% survival rate and that lake has a real good shad population, without a good bait fish population to help compensate it would be even less, I have never fished bass lake and am not up to date with the vegetation andfood factor

[abishop]

You're right...lots of variables.

1) What size are the stocker walleyes?
2) What other predatory species are present in the BOW, and in what sizes.
3) How much forage is available for the walleye?
4) What size is the BOW in question, surface area and max depth?

If a Walleye, (or Largemouth bass) is to gain one pound of body weight, then it may need to consume ten pounds of forage....the conversion ratio is often stated as 10:1, although other factors may influence this.

Rough estimate, assuming adequate forage exists, I would say 4-6" per year?

Sorry I didn't mention fry size (small minnow size), There are bass and cats. This is Bass Lake in Knox. About 1265 acres with 30 fow.

[abishop]

I'm sorry for this I should know this,but what is a non spawn lake.

Where the habitat is not good for the walleye to spawn naturally. There are other species that have no problem to spawn on a regular cycle. Walleye need a rocky bottom and a moving feeder creek to have much success. Out of all the drn and co's I have spoken to they all say that there is no reproduction of the walleye species. Just saying if there was with 1,000,000 fry introduced each year it should be crazy. LOL

[sprkplug]

Introducing fry into a BOW with an already established predator base will probably result in extremely little Walleye survival, or recruitment.

If there's enough cover, a very small percentage grows into fingerling stage. But due to a Walleye's fusiform body condition, they are a highly targeted source of forage even then. I suppose it's a case of doing the only thing you can, realistically speaking, ($$$) and dumping many thousands of fry into the lake and hoping for the best.

[abishop]

I WISH THEY WOULD PUT SOME FINGERLINGS IN INSTEAD OF THE FRY. DON'T KNOW OF THE COST DIFFERENCE. I BELIEVE THE FINGERLINGS ARE 1-2 DOLLARS EACH. I WOULD MUCH RATHER SEE A COUPLE THOUSAND 3-4 INCH SIZE OVER 1,000,000 FRY. THIS WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTER. SEEMS LIKE YOU ARE GETTING SO MANY SMALLER FISH HERE LATELY. MAYBE JUST 2 MUCH PRESSURE THESE DAYS.

[Rabidgupy]

Kinda tough you have the DNR dropping in fish then the lake associations killing off the weeds...... Don't know why they even waste their time stocking most lakes with walleye fry. Fingerlings much better but do cost more but with lakes lacking cover most fry are just food. Lakes with a good walleye program typically have the lake association behind it. Without cooperation from the association most programs are just doomed off the get go. For instance Big Turkey aluminum cans are collected at the end of every weekend just sit the bags on the pier guy would come by pick up and recycle plus with other find raisers they would do association stocked 10k Fingerlings per year for quite are few years. They didn't need to rely on the state for anything other than an ok.

[bret]

Here's a snippet from an article dated November 2012...

Link to the entire article....http://www.michianaoutdoorsnews.com/columns/louie-s-blog/256-walleye-lakes-are-improving


Walleye Lakes Are Improving 
Published on Monday, 19 November 2012 14:29


The DNR is stocking larger walleyes in the fall.You get the sense from Hoosier biologists that good things are beginning to happen for northern Indiana walleye anglers.

Not that they aren’t improving, but biologists seem to be getting a better handle on what it takes to produce even better fishing.

One of those is how fish are stocked. There is very little evidence of natural reproduction in our waters so a fine-tuned stocking approach is required.

Historically, Indiana has thrown a lot of tiny walleyes in the lakes then kept their fingers crossed that they would survive. Some did. Most didn’t.

But a more pointed approach with plants of bigger yearlings stocked at smaller numbers in June and the fall is beginning to yield interesting results.

We’ve seen that on the St. Joseph River, where fall walleyes measuring 6-8 inches appear to be doing much better than the tiny fry or the 2 to 3 inch “June” fingerlings that go into some lakes during the summer. The bigger fish, despite lower stocking numbers, are making it through the winter and suffering less predation from other gamefish already in the lakes.

The problem is cost. Presently, Hoosier hatcheries can’t meet the requirements for the larger “fall” fingerlings because of their temperamental requirements of space, food and water temperature. That means they must be purchased from private hatcheries.

However, not every lake is the same and some still respond well with smaller, less expensive June fingerlings or tiny fry, the latter of which is stocked in larger amounts.

Because of the success with fall walleyes, experiments are underway to maximize Hoosier hatcheries to increase production, but frankly, modern day facilities are needed.

On the other hand, the larger fish are yielding much better results and lend a bright future for improving walleye fishing in northern Indiana.

[MC_angler]

Interesting article, thanks for posting, bret!

It brought up a good point that is hard to understand unless you're a hatchery manager - they're juggling limited space and trying to maximize their "crop rotation" as it were, and sometimes it's probably not as simple as "let's grow these walleyes longer" because the space and time required for that might actually be needed to rear another species

[Rabidgupy]

Well if it costs so much then perhaps a stamp like they have for trout. Whatever it takes just a thought. It's worked well for the trout programs.

[sprkplug]

As an example, I stock walleye fingerlings at 6-7", and they typically run between $2.50-$3.00 apiece.

[bret]

As an example, I stock walleye fingerlings at 6-7", and they typically run between $2.50-$3.00 apiece.

Wow!  As others have posted it sounds like  private fundraising or a "walleye stamp" would be helpful.

[MC_angler]

I think Minnesota tried a voluntary walleye stamp for $5 a few years ago (or may still have it). They were trying to raise money for walleye habitat improvement and stocking. I think the results were pretty pitiful, and that state is crazy about its walleyes!

http://www.outdoornews.com/January-2010/DNR-push-of-walleye-stamp-to-continue-in-2010/

[sprkplug]

In all fairness, that's me paying full retail, on a small quantity of fish....say 50 or so. Larger quantities would probably get a price break, but it illustrates the fact that bigger fish ain't cheap!

[TeacherPreacher]

I was involved a stocking experiment on Hamlin Lake at Ludington, Michigan back in the early 70's. A young biologist planted a large number of walleye fry into a marshy area north of Hamlin in May. This marshy area would normally shrink down to a small area by the end of March. He was trying to prove to his superiors that he could raise walleye fry for near nothing, then net them out and plant them in Hamlin. We trailer owners on the lake helped him net the walleyes he planted in late August. He was hoping to get 100 walleye. We ended up with well over 100 and some of them had grown to 7 inches. They had become cannibalistic, eventhough he had dumped a goodly number of flathead minnows in the marsh in July. The biologist was totally surprised at the growth rate from fry to 7 inches in 4 months.
Teach

[abishop]

I THINK YEARS AGO I REMEMBER SOMETHING ABOUT A WALLEYE STAMP. THINK IT WAS GOING INTO LAKE MICHIGAN WALLEYE STOCKING. HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING FOR A LONG TIME. GUESS IT WAS VOTED DOWN. I WOULD BE WILLING TO IMPLEMENT A WALLEYE STAMP FOR CATCHING PRIVELIDGES. JUST MY 2 CENTS.

[abishop]

I was involved a stocking experiment on Hamlin Lake at Ludington, Michigan back in the early 70's. A young biologist planted a large number of walleye fry into a marshy area north of Hamlin in May. This marshy area would normally shrink down to a small area by the end of March. He was trying to prove to his superiors that he could raise walleye fry for near nothing, then net them out and plant them in Hamlin. We trailer owners on the lake helped him net the walleyes he planted in late August. He was hoping to get 100 walleye. We ended up with well over 100 and some of them had grown to 7 inches. They had become cannibalistic, eventhough he had dumped a goodly number of flathead minnows in the marsh in July. The biologist was totally surprised at the growth rate from fry to 7 inches in 4 months.
Teach THAT IS AN INCREDIBLE GROW RATE. I REMEMBER THE LAST TIME I FISHED HAMLIN LAKE THEY WERE DOING A CREWL SURVEY BY SETTING NET TRAPS IN DIFFERENT LOCATIONS IN THE LAKE. I WATCHED THEM PULL ONE NET BY WHERE WE WERE STAYING (INDIAN PETES BAYOU). THEY HAD A 12 POUND NORTHERN A FEW EYES AND A BUNCH OF GILLS/CRAPPIE. LOVE HAMLIN LAKE-BRINGS BACK GOOD MEMORIES.

[wax_worm]

Problem with a stamp is how do you price it?  If the cost of a 5-7" fingerling is say 1.00, what is the stamp cost?  Most serious Walleye guys are going to keep more than 5-10 fish a year, and likely alot more if the fishing were better around here.  Do you put the stamp at 20.00?  Alot of people would complain about that.  And then are walleye off limits to the casual angler that happens to hook one while bass fishing?  Lots of headaches invovled with a stamp process for a fish that will often bite offerings not targeting them.

[abishop]

Problem with a stamp is how do you price it?  If the cost of a 5-7" fingerling is say 1.00, what is the stamp cost?  Most serious Walleye guys are going to keep more than 5-10 fish a year, and likely alot more if the fishing were better around here.  Do you put the stamp at 20.00?  Alot of people would complain about that.  And then are walleye off limits to the casual angler that happens to hook one while bass fishing?  Lots of headaches invovled with a stamp process for a fish that will often bite offerings not targeting them.

I see what you are saying. Answer me this one. Using the guidelines of catching trout in certain waters that either stock them or have been introduced into certain lakes. If you don't have a trout stamp and you hook into a trout while fishing for walleye, must you release it if you don't have a stamp/ I used to fish Lake Michigan for salmon and trout but haven't for a few years. I know there is a lake that I do fish occasionally and there have been trout caught every now and then. My question "isn't the stamp for lake Michigan, or for all waters containing these fish". So, I would have to release this fish to avoid the possibility of getting fined? I would release anyway because I don't eat them.

[MC_angler]

Wax_worm, great questions. A complicated issue for sure. I don't think a walleye stamp would be easy to implement or be accepted by too many fishermen. I wouldn't buy one for the limited amount of walleye fishing I do, I know that much!

ABishop, like Wax_worm said, why don't you email the biologist responsible for Bass Lake? I bet he would have some great insight. I think Bass Lake is in their District 1... using the DNR biologist contact info found at  http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/3590.htm you can see his contact info if you click on his name

[Cool Cat]

Wow!  As others have posted it sounds like  private fundraising or a "walleye stamp" would be helpful.

Yeah, glad I've got a lifetime license if they go to that.  It includes all stamps and licenses

[wax_worm]

I see what you are saying. Answer me this one. Using the guidelines of catching trout in certain waters that either stock them or have been introduced into certain lakes. If you don't have a trout stamp and you hook into a trout while fishing for walleye, must you release it if you don't have a stamp/ I used to fish Lake Michigan for salmon and trout but haven't for a few years. I know there is a lake that I do fish occasionally and there have been trout caught every now and then. My question "isn't the stamp for lake Michigan, or for all waters containing these fish". So, I would have to release this fish to avoid the possibility of getting fined? I would release anyway because I don't eat them.

The trout/salmon stamp is mainly for lake michigan and it's tributaries and a small hanful of Indiana lakes and the put and take trout planting each spring.  There are many more lakes with walleye than there are with trout and walleye will bite bass lures, live bait when fishing for perch or gills etc.  So it is alot harder to say if you didn't pony up for the walleye 'stamp' you can't keep a walleye you catch when fishing for other species.  I can say with confidence there are alot more walleye caught when targeting other fish in IN inland lakes than there are accidental trout catches.  I just think it would be hard to implement and I would like to see them expand the prison fish hatchery program to other prisons and give them something to do.  Free labor and those that are law abiding citizens benefit.  I would do away with the stamps altogether and raise the IN licence to 40-50.00 a year.  Use that money to raise larger walleye and sustain the trout and salmon hatchery work.

[northrn-duck-assassin]

stamp idea would work. by the stamp to catch and keep walleye. if u dont have stamp you dont keep the walleye or target that species. trout/salmon stamps, migratory game bird stamps... just like everything else in the reg. book, dont have you cant do it. its for the better so y not spend the money on it, its goin to better ur fishing experience and ur child, even grand childeren and so on.