DNR proposal for new year

[ole green moe]

I used to, but not recently.  What does that have to do with the number of deer I see just driving?   My point was there are still a ton of deer around where I live and drive.  Maybe different where you live.  Because I don't hunt anymore means the deer I see are not real?  Guys I know that hunt are not having any issues seeing plenty of deer. 

Point still stands...blaming the DNR for the 'rules' causing the deer herd decline (his opinion) is laying the blame in the wrong place.  No one forces any hunter to shoot more than 1 a season.  Example, the DNR says you can keep 5 LM bass a day over 14", but that does not mean you should do it just because it is in the rules.  If all bass tournament fishermen kept 5 a day there would be very few LM in IN lakes. Tournament anglers and most recreational anglers let the bass go to enjoy another day despite the 'rules' saying we could all keep them.  DNR knows bass are 90% C&R so they leave the rule in place.  When they put the rules in to allow 4, 6, 8 deer in some counties, they probably underestimated the overzealous hunters that would actually shoot that many.  Hunters need to show some restraint if they care about the resource.  Get your buck and one doe and call it a season.   Should be basic math to anyone including the DNR that deer have 1 fawn (sometimes twins) a year.  Everytime they kill a doe they are removing 2 or 3 from next years population.  Multiply that by 5 or 6 doe tags (because the DNR rules say they can), add in the affects of the virus and yotes killing fawns, and it is not hard to see why some are complaining there are no deer.  One or two guys that go by 'if its brown its down' hunting mentality can put a dent in the herd in a hurry especially if they hunt the same area.

I think you took my question a little too personally. I have always respected your thoughts and opinions and I was just curious as to your current background in the deer woods.
I have been a passionate deer hunter for 30 or so years now from archery thru muzzleloader seasons. And yes, I have seen the deer herd being dwindled away over the past several years.
You have some very good points as to some of the reasons for this, but, with all that you said, your most compelling reason is indeed 'it is the hunter' who squeezes the trigger at every deer he/she sees that is most to blame. This can only be regulated by the DNR.
I am sure you see plenty of deer driving around covering many miles over the road. I don't have that luxury of driving miles and hunting which is how you are seeing most of your deer. You really need to get back into the deer woods again to see the reductions that us deer hunters have seen over the past few years.
Also, when you have someone leasing up 1/4th of Kosciusko county, Ken (fill in the blank) McIntosh, it makes it even tougher for the average 'ole green moe' to find those good properties that you are probably seeing those deer on to hunt.
I hope that some of what I just typed made a little sense, and I wasn't trying to call you out on anything waxie. I just wanted to know what your recent background was to be speaking out about the current deer herd. Thanks for giving us your opinions as they are always appreciated.    

[marmooskapaul]

All the major reservoirs in the southern half of the state have pretty much suffered the same fate.  They start out as unbelievable bluegill fisheries then suddenly almost overnight are dink factories and they never really come back unless drained .  Has nothing to do with limits .  One only has to compare the fish sampling records and when the shad population explodes.  You have places like Boggs Creek, where the only recourse has been to drain the lake and start over.  They even offered rewards for information on anyone putting shad into the lake.  Take a lake like Summit, which seems to be a bluegill factory year after year, and you probably wont find many shad there if any.  We used to have a 25 limit on bluegill in Indiana.  All the 25 limits in the world would not help reservoirs like Monroe or Patoka I'm afraid.

HHD

This is so true. This is also why, IMO, many lakes in Michigan and other northern states seem to have great/better gill fishing...many/most have no shad. If Summit ever gets shad, say good bye to the gills?.
Paul

[bull gill hunter]

In my opinion there needs to be a limit on sunfish. I have been guilty many times over the 35 yrs of fishing of taking more than I needed, most of us have. Having said that I have also hunted the same section of Whitley county for 25 yrs. I bought the property because of the abundant deer population. I only killed what my family of 6 could eat in a year. About 10 years ago the property on 2 sides of mine sold and poaching and shooting anything with hooves became the norm all around me. The last several years I have killed 1 deer and let my daughter kill one also. The reason for this is I see far fewer deer each set and havent seen a 5 yr old buck for at least 4 years. My point is, if it hurts the deer to be over harvested why couldnt it happen with fish. If we arent willing to set our own limits then maybe we need someone to do it for us.

[wax_worm]

I think you took my question a little too personally. I have always respected your thoughts and opinions and I was just curious as to your current background in the deer woods.
I have been a passionate deer hunter for 30 or so years now from archery thru muzzleloader seasons. And yes, I have seen the deer herd being dwindled away over the past several years.
You have some very good points as to some of the reasons for this, but, with all that you said, your most compelling reason is indeed 'it is the hunter' who squeezes the trigger at every deer he/she sees that is most to blame. This can only be regulated by the DNR.
I am sure you see plenty of deer driving around covering many miles over the road. I don't have that luxury of driving miles and hunting which is how you are seeing most of your deer. You really need to get back into the deer woods again to see the reductions that us deer hunters have seen over the past few years.
Also, when you have someone leasing up 1/4th of Kosciusko county, Ken (fill in the blank) McIntosh, it makes it even tougher for the average 'ole green moe' to find those good properties that you are probably seeing those deer on to hunt.
I hope that some of what I just typed made a little sense, and I wasn't trying to call you out on anything waxie. I just wanted to know what your recent background was to be speaking out about the current deer herd. Thanks for giving us your opinions as they are always appreciated.

OGM....I apoligize if my response came across the wrong way.  I was possessed by penguins.  I stopped hunting becuase I no longer enjoyed sitting in the woods waiting for a deer to come by and because as you said finding good areas to hunt is nearly impossible.  Now I bass fish from march to decemember.

I was not trying to argue that the deer herd is what it used to be, becuase it is not.  I did not do a good job at it, but I was just trying to say I still see alot of deer (saw 8 on the way to the lake this morining at the edge of a small wooded plot eating in a field) and of course what I see may be different 20 miles from here or where you hunt.   Maybe there are fewer hunters up here or they aren't very good!    LOL at the Ken M. comment.  Been more than 10 years since I have heard anything abuot him.  Used to be a big Bass guy. 

What you say makes sense, but sometimes people have to self regulate despite the rules.  As you know, there is alot that goes into the current rules like farmers complaining about crop damage, insurance company lobby, yearly harvest stats, etc.,  I know we don't always agree with what goes into the rules, but I don't think the DNR really expects most hunters to be killing 4-8 deer a year just because they can.  Unfortunately those that can't self regulate are often the ones that are first to scream 'foul' when after a couple years they are not seeing the same numbers of deer.    It really is a tangled web.  Either allow the herd to grow and expand as we remove more and more habitat each year, which will cause crop damage, higher insurance rates for all, and better hunting for those that hunt, or 'try' to reduce the herd to keep crop damage low, insurance rates in check, and still maintain decent hunting.  Somewhere there is a balance in this whole mess, but I don't know what it is.

[ole green moe]

OGM....I apoligize if my response came across the wrong way.  I was possessed by penguins.  I stopped hunting becuase I no longer enjoyed sitting in the woods waiting for a deer to come by and because as you said finding good areas to hunt is nearly impossible.  Now I bass fish from march to decemember.

I was not trying to argue that the deer herd is what it used to be, becuase it is not.  I did not do a good job at it, but I was just trying to say I still see alot of deer (saw 8 on the way to the lake this morining at the edge of a small wooded plot eating in a field) and of course what I see may be different 20 miles from here or where you hunt.   Maybe there are fewer hunters up here or they aren't very good!    LOL at the Ken M. comment.  Been more than 10 years since I have heard anything abuot him.  Used to be a big Bass guy. 

What you say makes sense, but sometimes people have to self regulate despite the rules.  As you know, there is alot that goes into the current rules like farmers complaining about crop damage, insurance company lobby, yearly harvest stats, etc.,  I know we don't always agree with what goes into the rules, but I don't think the DNR really expects most hunters to be killing 4-8 deer a year just because they can.  Unfortunately those that can't self regulate are often the ones that are first to scream 'foul' when after a couple years they are not seeing the same numbers of deer.    It really is a tangled web.  Either allow the herd to grow and expand as we remove more and more habitat each year, which will cause crop damage, higher insurance rates for all, and better hunting for those that hunt, or 'try' to reduce the herd to keep crop damage low, insurance rates in check, and still maintain decent hunting.  Somewhere there is a balance in this whole mess, but I don't know what it is.

We're good buddy!! I agree with most of your comments!!
We just can't fix stupid though, can we??? lol
BTW, I'm glad you referred to the Penguin possesion issue. Some have been in denial for years. It isn't like being abducted by aliens.  This is real!!

[ole green moe]

To get back to the subject at hand though!! I personally am a fan of a 25 fish limit. I don't have any data or facts to back up my opinion other than personal experience with size/quality of fish in states that do support the 25 fish rule. And yes I have kept more than 25 in the past but would have no issue stopping at 25 during a good bite if it was the law. Great subject!! Definitely something that all fisherman should discuss and give there opinions on!

[fishinfiend]

I like the 25 fish limit, I would love to see a catch and release season for bass during the spawn. Michigan has a closed season bass till after the spawn. It would eliminate tourney anglers pulling bass off the beds, I know Im probably gonna catch flack for this post but I could care less!!! Check Wawasee parking in the spring, Michigan plates everywhere pulling bass off beds for there tourneys that they cant do in Michigan

[wax_worm]

I like the 25 fish limit, I would love to see a catch and release season for bass during the spawn. Michigan has a closed season bass till after the spawn. It would eliminate tourney anglers pulling bass off the beds, I know Im probably gonna catch flack for this post but I could care less!!! Check Wawasee parking in the spring, Michigan plates everywhere pulling bass off beds for there tourneys that they cant do in Michigan

Only partially correct.  Michigan has catch and immediate release season starting the last Saturday in April every year.  This is way before bass spawn in Michigan and their catch and keep starts the Sat. before Memorial day each year....which in most years is still before most bass spawn in Michigan.  So the rule really does no good in keeping anglers from targeting bass on beds, and they are hit hard in Michigan too, but their lakes are doing just fine.  Wawa is a bass factory, and no matter how many are caught, taken to the weighin and released, it churns out bass.  DNR did study on Wawa for a couple years and determined tournament fishing off beds has no negaitive impact on the quality of bass fishery Wawa currently is or could be.  Wawa is the best bass lake in the state.

[Hack58]

I also support the 25 limit but doubt it's effectiveness. I have witnessed people from pretty much every religion, race, nationality, and whatever other classification you can come up with catch over their 25 red ear limit that already exists during our annual spring trip down south. I have even reported several of them over the years. My point here is that you can't legislate ethics or morality. One co I used to know quite well said they estimated less than 10% of  poachers ever get convicted. That was based on the number of known and suspected poachers that skated in the court system. Granted that was +/- 20 years ago but I doubt that much has changed.

As to taking bass off the bed I saw a study years ago where the dnr netted and radio tagged 3 females off the nest about as far up the creek as they could go on Skinner lake. They kept them for something like 6 hours and them released each one at the ramp 15min apart to simulate tourney conditions. All 3 separately made a big circle in the lake (to get bearings appearently) and headed straight back to the creek. All 3 were back on the nest within 2 hours of their release. Of course nobody knows what happened to the nest in the 8 hours it wasn't guarded but the conclusion was that catch and release fishing tourneys do no severe harm to nesting bass.

Sorry if this has turned in to a bit of a rant........... I'll shut up now.

[walkerd]

I'm for it to but they will never be able to regulate it ie..catching limit and leaving then returning to catch another limit. Don't say it doesn't happen I witnessed it with some people I called friends do this with bass, I don't fish with them anymore and don't consider them friends. I did report it but nothing happened because if they don't witness it they cant do a thing about it. The good thing is there are more honest people than there are dishonest (I may be a bit naive about that statement but have to hope) that most will abide by the rules. I have never understood why some would sit there and take out buckets of gills, now don't get me wrong I love eating bluegills, but cleaning that many my god, I have enough to clean 25 or 30 when I catch them that I've had enough, lol. I always have enough fish to eat a freeze a little for another day at 25 that equals 50 fillets. Now granted I'm kind of a hoarder of my catch, don't have fish Fry's for others lol, I love to eat what I catch, now I do give some to my father in law because he cant get out and ice fish anymore and he loves them to, so I do part with some for him. But always have fish to eat when I want them, I don't eat them every day. Unless there is an outpouring of people against rule changes the state will enact any law they want to if they propose it.
Someone hit the nail on the head about shad ruining a lake, there is one that has always been a bluegill factory and is always hit hard by fisherman winter and summer but now the dinks are overpowering it I took my camera out watching gills coming to  my lure when all of a sudden they left figured bass came into the area so I moved the head around and saw this herd of fish swimming toward it as they got closer it was an unbelievable group of big shad I mean 100s I could not believe my eyes. I contacted the DNR and told them what I had seen, they seemed without saying it what do you want us to do about it. So like I said above the Cos unless they come upon a fisherman with over the limit gills if enacted is about the only way it will be enforced sad but true. Sad but rules are for sportsmen and sportswomen not poachers...........eno ugh said. Sorry for the long rant but this one is one I'm kind of passionate about, and yes if I wanted I could sit and catch buckets of fish but 25 for me would and is enough for me a day.

[tater140]

25 gills is plenty for me to clean.  I would be happy to see that come into effect, if it was for the good of the overall state fishery.  I haven't had to many days where i've caught anymore then that.  I agree that most of us are honest fisherman and would self police to some extent. 

[popnfish]

wouldn't bother me a bit, it is rare if I even keep 25

[walleyedan]

Under fish rule change #5.  what a joke.  There is only 8' of water in the lake since they drained it from last Oct.  It will be 10+ years before there are any bass that size in it.   They drained it because nothing would grow in it but carp.

[wax_worm]

I rarely ice fish past noon when I go, so I usually fish about 4 hours trip.  Not sure why...just how I have always done it.  I usually fish with 1 to 4 other people and we have days where we put 100 or more on the ice, but when there are 4 of us that is still 25 or so a person.  If we can walk off with 25 keeps a person by noon it has been a good morning of fishing.  It does not happen every time as there are times when we only get 15 (or less) or so per guy.  For the guys that stay out all day, they might have to start doing alot of C&R when on a good bite of go home early.