musky tips?

[river_scum]

im sure they eat plenty of gills, small bass, and perch. pike do, why wouldnt skies? i think thats just made up to try n snow panfishermen. lol

[AlgaeKilla]

"It’s been demonstrated that NO negative
impact on game fish populations has
occurred due to the introduction of
Muskies into a lake. More often, the
effects are positive, as there becomes
balance in the food pyramid, which
accounts for larger fish of all species."

Sources of information
Diets of Muskellunge in Northern
Wisconsin Lakes- Michael A. Bozek,
Thomas M. Burri, and Richard V. Frie,
Wisconsin Cooperative Fishery Research
Unit, College of Natural Resources,
University of Wisconsin- Stevens Point.
July 1991- October 1994. North American
Journal of Fisheries Management 1999;
19:258-270

What do Muskies eat anyway? - Duane
Williams, Large Lake Specialist for Lake
Vermillion Department of Natural
Resources, Section of Fisheries.

Butler, M.T. 2004 Muskellunge Biology:
the basics. International Muskie Home
Page. Trent University. Peterborough,
Canada.

[wax_worm]

im sure they eat plenty of gills, small bass, and perch. pike do, why wouldnt skies? i think thats just made up to try n snow panfishermen. lol

If they have no other forage this may be true, but studies in large lakes like St. clair show otherwise.  LSC is a world class musky fishery.  One of, if not the best in the USA for both numbers and size, yet it is the best SM lake in the world as well as a tremendous perch, gill, pike, catfish, white bass and LM fishery too.  Walleye are on the decline, but that has more to do with the declining numbers in huron and erie and poor spawns for many years in a row than it does Musky.  What st clair also has is a massive shad population, along with carp and suckers and other 'rough' fish, and these are what turn up in Musky stomachs the majority of the time when they are disected.  I don't know if our lakes have suckers, carp and shad at the levels where they are the primary food for musky, but st clair and other lakes show no signs of declines in game fish when musky in high densities are present.

[taxi1]

taxi, just to let you know on the stocking of Musky in Indiana waters. webster is the broodstock lake for the IDNR and those fish go to the hachery raised and then restocked into Indiana waters every fall.    the clubs still stock the lakes to. the Webster Lake Musky Club actually stocks 1 lake with fish and we are adding 2 more lakes in the fall of this year. there are  2 Muskie Inc chapters here in Indiana and both do stock and help the IDNR with funds for different things they need for the fish.. we are now working on having them minnow fed more before they are released, so they will be better off after they are stocked. the clubs would not be around if this was not happening.  so yes the clubs do stock fish too....bill

also Bigr i am a Indiana Musky Guide if you need any info or so forth let me know and i am always here to help out in anyway i can.. these fish are a blast as i have been chasing them for over 30+ years all over the country and i cant seem too get enough

Thanks for the info Bill!

[taxi1]

90% of the time "they" "stick" them in lakes that are on the decline do to the invasive nature of gizzard shad and the way they out forage and out produce more desirable fish and dominate the population dymanics of a lake or reservoir. This coupled with the timing of a declining panfish and/or gamefish population reinforces the ignorant opinion that the stocked predator is consuming the desirable species that they were introduced to help. Let us not forget "they" are scientists. That's what they do.

Absolutely!

I lived on Webster years ago while building my present home near Ligonier. Lots of big Gizzard shad in the lake that competed with bluegill. Also never caught a bluegill over 8 inches in Webster.

[taxi1]

BTW here's a replica I did a while back for a local musky guide Gary Enos that he presented to the client on the left that released a 50 or over musky.

Just to let it be known I am all for the release of the muskies but don't like anglers being chastised for keeping a legal one. Somebody out there is less than diplomatic about it and in at least one case it had the reverse effec,t and the fish was brought to me to mount.

I also don't believe the survival of released fish is a high as you guys think, but it's of course better than keeping every fish. I will say myself, and other taxdermists I know in the region, don't mount very many due to the cost, which adds up on a fish with the length of a musky.  I'm hoping that will make the musky guys feel better. 

Before painting:



After painting:

[imob34]

wait a second is Gary smiling in that first picture? now there's something i haven't seen before

oh and nice looking mount!

[gruntngrin]

Very nice work taxi... When I hit the 50 mark u r first on my list with work like that.

[AlgaeKilla]

Fantastic work, Cecil.

[High Tide]

That is a SWEET mount!!

[musky8it]

Fantastic work, Cecil.

I thought Taxi1 was a taxidermist I knew from the Ind. Taxidermist Shows back in the 90s. Couldn't remember your name until I seen Cecil on the post. I knew that was you in another thread holding that 1lb 4oz gill. You sure had some great looking fish at the shows I used to go to, this Replica Musky is awesome, nice detailed paint work. Do you still go and compete at the Ind. Taxi Shows? The last one I went to was in Terra Haute, I took the 13pt WT Deer showing in my aviatar, believe that was in 96 or 97. Learned allot at those shows, some of the finest Taxidermist from Ind. went to them, includeing you one of the best fish taxis around.

[taxi1]

I thought Taxi1 was a taxidermist I knew from the Ind. Taxidermist Shows back in the 90s. Couldn't remember your name until I seen Cecil on the post. I knew that was you in another thread holding that 1lb 4oz gill. You sure had some great looking fish at the shows I used to go to, this Replica Musky is awesome, nice detailed paint work. Do you still go and compete at the Ind. Taxi Shows? The last one I went to was in Terra Haute, I took the 13pt WT Deer showing in my aviatar, believe that was in 96 or 97. Learned allot at those shows, some of the finest Taxidermist from Ind. went to them, includeing you one of the best fish taxis around.

Thank you for the kind words!

As far as the taxidermy shows as past president, board member, treasurer, etc. and one that enjoyed competing I got burned out on going to the shows. I haven't attended for several years.  I have enough trouble keeping up with the work load so doing the show put me even more behind. However if they would move them around the state like we used to do I would be be tempted to attend. I got really sick of the same location year after year in Columbus. They do take a vote on where to have it the following year and of course those close to Columbus vote for Columbus.

I've also become heavily involved promoting aquaculture in Indiana being president of the Indiana aquaculture association inc. It's actually a nice diversion from doing taxidermy for 29 years.

[AlgaeKilla]

Just wanted to update this thread with what seems to be the exception to the musky not eating desirable fish topic. According the the finding of a recent study in Colorado when placed in ponds with rainbow trout and suckers northern pike  prefer the toasty trout.

"When the experiment was complete, enclosures were drained...trout numbers declined to zero while 60-75% of white suckers remained."

Granted these were pike, but it does show a preference in the diet of esox luscious (cousin to the musky). I've heard of guys using trout for musky and tiger bait.It also stands to reason as to why rainbow lakes.have such big pike.

Study referenced: An experimental approach to determine solid prey preference in replicated pond systems,Pepsi,Weatherman,Pate, and Craft, Lake and Reservoir Management vol. 28 September 2012

[musky8it]

You forgot to say this, which is very important. The trout was NAIVE hatchery reared, the suckers where WILD, makes a big differance. Kind of like giving a wolf its choice, farm sheep or wild bighorn sheep. The wolf would more than likely clean out the farm sheep long before the wild bighorns.

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/tandf/ulrm20/2012/00000028/00000003/art00006

Above is the link, below it talks about the Naive trout and wild suckers.

......In this study, northern pike were used to evaluate esocid prey preference between naïve, hatchery-reared rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss) and wild white suckers.......

Since the article link was no posted. I wanted to read it cause I wanted to see how big the ponds where, it never said. Around here a pond to me is considered 5 acres or less.  To put trout, suckers, and pike is a pond would be like putting farm animals in a pen with a wolf. This would be unnatural hunting grounds for a pike, to close quarters for a real natural experiment.

Here's my theory's on why the trout where eaten faster.
 
1. The trout where tame, they did not grow up watching out for predators, the suckers did so they where harder to catch.
2. When a pike or any preditory fish hunts it likes to attacks from below.  Trout swim higher off the bottom while suckers are bottom feeders and stay more in the shallows and bottoms, so the trout where easier to ambush cause they swam in deeper water and higher. Predator fish, like any other living predator on this earth, will take whats the easiest to ambush and eat. And since suckers hang out more in shallows and keep on the bottom, maybe it was harder for pike to ambush them.

Note:
Why is a big sucker good big pike bait. Cause we put the sucker out of its domain. We suspend them off the bottom in deeper water than they're normally found.

This is my opinion, feel free to voice your opinion. I am not saying pike/musky will not affect the population of other fish species in any lake. So if you legally catch a legal one, it is purely your chose to release or keep it. If you release it I personally thank you, if you keep it that is your right as a legal fisherman.

[wax_worm]

Likely true with the farm raised trout vs wild suckers.  However wild suckers are not always shallow.  In the Detroit river there are studies showing suckers, walleye and musky all tight to the bottom in 20+ ft of water.  Maybe that is still considered shallow?  Trout are used out west to 'feed' large bass in several lakes.  To a bass it is an easy target that is packed with nutrition and I am sure pike and musky would feel the same.  5 acres is not a small area for the study.  There are certainly more than 1 pike/musky per 5 acres in a good pike/musky fishery.  Unless the ponds were completely barren and provided no cover unlike a real lake condition, I would say the study was valid for what they were trying to prove.  Like you said, any predetor will take advantage of the weak first.  If a lake did not have a population of suckers, carp, shad or other rough fish that were 'easy pickings' vs. the game fish, you can bet the pike and musky would target the game fish.  Even with wild trout, I would bet musky and pike would still target them over the suckers.

[wallydiven]

Yeah...the point is you are trying to start something out of nothing.  If you are gonig to take the time to post, why not contribute something to the thread intstead of trying to start an argument which is your intent and what you are doing.  You fish for musky all the time according to your other posts over the years, so why not contribute?  This thread should be right in your wheelhouse.  Share some knowledge and add to the discussion like so many others have.

I sincerely bow down to you for being the computer guru that I am not. I only wish I had as much time on my hands as you. I simply stated I release all muskies because that is my choice to do so. Most of the fingerlings we release every year get eaten anyways. That's why they are so delicate to those dedicated to such a precious species of our fishery. You on the other hand seem to know something about everything. Not that that is wrong but i feel you should hit the hard water (or soft) a bit more rather than posting on everyone's posts.

[wax_worm]

I am not bagging on you for what you posted about releasing muskies.  I release them too.  I am asking that you share some knowledge of the fish you target with others on here.  Is that too much to ask?  You want to grow the sport of musky angling and care, get more people interested by providing info that educates those that know little about the species and how to care for it. 

No one said a thing about your computer skills.  I fish several times a week, nearly every week of the year except Nov til ice up.  How much more time do you want me to spend fishing?  In those hours on the water you learn alot about several species.  I also fish other areas than our local waters and am a member of several other fishing websites and fish competitively in the soft water.  Doing all that you learn alot.  To fish competitively you better know everything you can about the fish you target, what they eat and who eats them.  So I apoligize if I seem to know something about everything and that offends you.  If you have a problem with anything I post or the number of posts, contact JT or one of the mods, and I am sure they will let me know if I am posting too much or am out of line. 

Back to the orginal topic of Musky tips.....you have any?  Mine is fish with bass lures on waters where the majority of those targeting musky are using 'standard' sized musky lures.  It has worked for me in Canada, lake st clair, webster and barbee chain.  Small sample size yes, but the results don't lie.

[william bennett]

Catch and Release Tips

Why Catch and Release?

Catch and release is a relatively new concept to fishing, no matter what the species. Lessons learned in the past have given way to anglers being stewards of the resource and not just users. Anglers have realized that they need to practice selective harvest in all instances; limiting our harvest instead of harvesting our limit has become crucial. This means that, for some species like the muskie, near-zero harvest is required to maintain fishable numbers in many waters. Biologically speaking, muskies are always going to be the lowest density species in any water. Without self-limiting our take, we risk over-harvesting due to liberal creel limits. This not only affects the muskellunge fishing we hope to enjoy for many years, but can have a negative impact on an entire fishery. Muskies are an integral part of the fisheries where they occur naturally and where they have been introduced. In natural fisheries where the muskellunge population is much lower-density when compared to a stocked fishery, the importance of limited harvest increases dramatically. Habitat degradation through modern development where real estate is highly valued, muskellunge spawning success is frequently poor where they occur naturally. Reduced numbers of this apex predator negatively affects a fishery by allowing rough fish, such as suckers, carp and invasive species, to flourish. Most of these species compete directly with the most popular game and sport fish such as bass, walleye and panfish. To compensate for limited numbers of muskellunge, catch and release has become imperative for the conservation of muskellunge populations, both natural and stocked.

Legend would have you believe that the muskellunge eats everything in the waters where they are present. A pervasive misconception that has been passed on through generations is if you want better fishing for walleye, bass or panfish, you need to kill all the eating machines like the muskellunge. This sentiment couldn’t be farther from the truth; some of the best and most-balanced fisheries in North America contain healthy muskellunge populations. Studies on muskellunge feeding behavior shows they are very selective in their forage preference, and bass, walleye and panfish are not their preferred forage. In fact, muskellunge are a much needed apex predator limiting rough fish numbers in waters where the rough fish compete to the detriment of other game and sport fish.

It is up to every angler to make their own decision on whether to catch and release or to harvest; but keep in mind the muskellunge is not managed as a game fish (for the table) like salmon or walleye. Muskellunge are managed as a trophy fishery, and as such it is up to each of us to determine what “trophy” means. Trophy, to most anglers, means a fish that is near the maximum size for a given species; harvest size limits don’t take this into account for most species, including muskies. Trophy size for each species varies: for a walleye this might be 10 pounds, for a bass maybe 6 pounds for a smallmouth and 8 pounds for a largemouth. Muskellunge are one of the slowest growing and largest of our freshwater fish; they can survive in most waters beyond 18 years of age. For a female muskellunge, this means a typical length of 50-55 inches. While most muskie anglers view 48-50 inch muskellunge as trophies, nowadays this doesn’t necessarily mean they are harvesting these fish. Modern taxidermists have learned over the last 20 years the art of fabricating realistic reproductions which have replaced the need to harvest a muskie to have a trophy mount. Two taxidermy artists in particular have set themselves apart from all others when it comes to taking the photo of a released muskie and giving you a reproduction for your wall that is better looking and more durable than any traditional skin mount. These studios are:

www.fittantereplicas.c om
www.laxreproduction.co m

With the recent successful introduction of muskellunge in many Indiana  waters, there is increasing interest in the fishery, and along with that, increased angling pressure. What was once considered the fish of “ten thousand casts” isn’t necessarily the case for most fisheries these days. Catching a muskellunge has become much easier, thanks to stocking efforts of the Indiana DNR with assistance from Indiana Muskie Clubs like the Webster Lake Musky Club and  The Hoosier Muskie Hunters. Also, because catch-and-release is now practiced by the majority of muskie anglers, many “trophy” fish are being caught and released multiple times.

However, simply releasing a muskie doesn’t ensure its survival; proper handling and release practices can significantly reduce muskie mortality. But we can’t have a “how to” without first addressing the tools required for properly removing hooks from a captured muskellunge. One useful piece of advice first-and-foremost is to have a plan set ahead of time; you don’t want to be searching for release tools when you really need them. As the Boy Scouts say, “Be Prepared!” Have the net handle extended, your release tools out and within reach of where you plan to net the fish, and make sure everyone in the boat knows where the camera is and how to use it.

Nets:
Most anglers choose to net their muskies; a quality “muskie-appropriate” net will enable fish to be landed faster while also allowing the fish to stay in the water during de-hooking. A muskie, as with all fish, isn’t able to breathe out of the water; keeping them in the water as much as possible greatly reduces the stress the catch and release process will have on them. A good analogy might be imagining yourself running a quarter-mile, and while you’re gasping for breath, being placed underwater and be unable to breathe! Keeping the muskies head under water as much as possible while de-hooking is key to maximizing their survival. Coupled with this consideration is understanding that overplaying a muskie may exhaust it to the point where it cannot successfully recover. Effects such as lactic acidosis (a buildup of lactic acid that can cause abnormal heart rhythms) and hypoxemia (abnormally low blood oxygen level, especially occurring during the hottest summer weather) can lead to delayed mortality, even though the fish swam away apparently OK when you released it. Please don't play the fish to complete exhaustion. Get it into the net quickly, where it can start to recover.

Beckman, Frabill and Stowmaster all build good “fish friendly” nets capable of handling the largest muskies. These companies have engineered these nets with wide hoops and deep bags that allow the net to act as a holding pen, allowing the fish to remain in the water and not be cramped. This enables the angler to perform de-hooking while the muskie recovers at boatside in the water. Any muskie-appropriate net will have a knotless, coated bag that reduces slime removal, and a smaller mesh that greatly reduces the chance of damaged fins.

Beckman nets
Frabill nets
Stowmaster nets

Tools:
The surgical forceps or 6" needle-nose pliers commonly used to de-hook many other species aren’t going to suffice when you have a muskie with a mouth full of 4/0 treble hooks and lots of large, sharp teeth to navigate. Long needle-nosed pliers (11" or more, A) and long hook-out tools are important to keep your hands away from the sharp hooks and teeth. Also, it isn’t uncommon for a hook to become imbedded in a way that makes backing the hook out very difficult, and therefore cutting the hook is the best way to keep you and the fish safe. A pair of mini compound-action bolt cutters are a must-have; side cutters aren’t going to get the job done on a 4x-strong muskie hook. There are many less-expensive models out there, but a high quality pair of small bolt cutters make cutting hooks very easy. Knipex mini compound bolt cutters (B) are widely regarded as the best tool for the job. Many anglers are hesitant to cut hooks from their favorite lure, but keep in mind: hooks are cheap and easy to replace... muskies aren’t. Once hooks are cut, removal of the remaining pieces is much easier. Don’t leave hooks in a fish, they will not rust away; the remaining hook pieces can cause infection. Other things you need are a long Baker hook-out tool (C) and mouth spreader (D). The hook pick (E) is a new tool designed to dislodge hooks that are deep inside the mouth of a fish.

Taking Photos:
Many anglers want to have a photo of their catch. Let’s face it: we may spend thousands of dollars on rods, reels, lures and tackle, not to mention travel and boats. A photo of your soon to be released muskie would be nice to have!

Once you have unhooked the fish in the net (being careful to keep the muskie in the water), now isn’t the time to put that care aside while you lift the fish for a photo only to find your partner searching for the camera. Have the camera ready before the fish is out of the water; then capturing a couple of photos for posterity shouldn’t take more than 30 seconds. When holding the fish for a photo it is important to support their weight horizontally and not hang them vertically. One hand carefully grasping the bone in the gill cover (see photo at left below) and the other hand supporting their body (see photo at right below) will limit stress on their skeletal structure and internal organs.

   
Releasing:
After you’ve removed the hooks and taken a photo or two, the next step is making sure that fish is ready to swim away. With the fish removed from the net, hold them upright in the water and allow them to tell you when they are ready to swim away. Most fish will just swim out of your hand; some will take a short time to recover and then will swim away. There’s no need to push and pull the fish to “get water through their gills”; this actually makes it more difficult for them to breathe. Just hold them still in the water and they will recover on their own. What about current? Try to always keep the nose of the fish pointed into the current and don’t allow the current to force their gills open. The same applies if the boat is drifting with the wind.

Please practice CPR: Catch, Photo, Release

GOOD LUCK!

[musky8it]

Here's the differance between gill, crappie, bass, and musky fishing

Gill
         1. you get a bite and maybe a slight thrill, yank and reel in. Takes about 5-10 seconds.
         2. Great on the plate
Crappie
         1.you get a bite and maybe a slight thrill, yank and reel in. Takes a little longer than a gill, maybe 10-20 seconds. Depends if its a 12-14"
         2. Great on the plate
Bass
         1.if you're top water fishing and get a bite, you get a small-med rush as you yank, reel in and fight the fish. Can take about the same time as a gill or crappie but most of the time it can take up to a 30-60 seconds.
         2. Ok on the plate if its a small one, biggin are not great on the plate.
Musky
         1. If you get a topwater hit or a hit on a figure 8 by the boat, you eyes instintly go wide open, your heart feels like its coming out of your chest and the rush is unbelievble. I compare it to bow hunting and a big 10pnter stops broadside 15 yds from your stand, you can't breath. It can take anywheres from 5-20 minutes to land. If its a big one, your exhausted IF or when you land it.
           2. I have tried it one time bout 15 yrs ago, from memory it had little or no good fish flavor.

Keep or release, what to do           
           Gills/Crappies, why release. They are great to eat and there are plenty to catch for the little thrill you get
           Bass, I release most all I catch even the little legal ones. I will keep a small legal one if I have no gills and freezer is about empty.
           Musky I have released everyone except my first. Back then I had never musky fished in my life and had a ski almost eat my Wisconsin walleye at the boat. Me and my bro went to town, talked to a bait owner, he sold us some bucktails and we both caught one each that week in Wis. I mounted both and are on our walls. After that all got released.

Point of this post

Why not let some other fisherman experiance the same thrill and heart pounding you just had with the fish you just caught, fought, and released.

Note: the first one I caught was on a figure 8 at Big Mckenzie Wis, as my bucktail came out of the water the ski lunged out of the water after it[/u]. My heart skipped 2 beats as he missed, I did the figure 8 and he nailed it. I thought my heart had stoped I was so excited, boated it after about 5-10 min and it was only a 37 incher. My brother caught a bigger 40" one which he also kept. I have a video of it, after it was in the boat, he could not stop shanking he was so excited.

This is what a Musky can do to a fisherman, thats why I release them now. No other fish I have caught does this, they are majestic.

Release or don't, its up to the fisherman, I hold no ill feelings to those who don't. But this is my and many other's story on why we release them.

My only tip, if you managed to not stop reading before you got to this point. Haven't been out musky fishing in Ind or Wis in 4-5ys, price of gas. Don't even know if I could fish hard more than a hour anymore, in Wisconsin we did minimun 10hrs/day for 7 dys st8. Love to use any top water bait, I want to see the hit not feel it, favorite was a safetypin spinner w/orange or chartruse colorado blade and a big soft plastic shad color paddle tail(4-6"), tryed to keep it just under the water so the blade would nip the top of the water every once in a while. I would pop it hard 1-2 times along the retrieve.. Floating "Grandma" flatstick in crappie color also a favorite, 6 incher not the big long ones.

[wax_worm]

Good write up and understand your enthusiasm for the fish.  I also know the thrill of seeing 40+ inch musky waking behind a buzzbait or topwater.  Also know the fright of a 40+ trying to come in the boat after a buzzbait at the end of the cast with mouth wide open.  Just about needed to change pants after that one.  As with any game at the top of the food chain there are less of them than the other fish or game, so they should be properly managed by limited harvest.  That is what the 36" rule is for, but most already release all musky.  I would guess bear hunters would say the same about a grizzly vs a black bear, becuause the grizzly is less common and at the top of the food chain.

As for the other fish, they can give you great fight and thrill if you match your tackle to the species you are after.  For gills and crappie, use long ultralight poles and 1lb line and then you will have a fair fight.  Same with bass, especially the SM.  Use 4-8 lb line and a 4lb SM will give you the battle of a lifetime.

The only time I have intentionally went after musky was in Canada and we just used our heavier bass rods but increased the line up to 12 lb.  In the 2 years I think we landed 7 one year and maybe 9 the next time (slabgill may remember the numbers better).  Most were just juveniles but at least 2 of those fish were over 40" and I don't think either took more than 5 minutes to land, mostly because we did not have a craddle in the boat to easily land them.  I know when we did get it in the boat my son who was 7 at the time was way in the back in awe.  I know the ones in St clair that we hook seem to fight harder than the ones in canada did, but using 8lb lb line and not heavy bass rods while fishing for bass is different that fishing with heavy rods with 12lb and looking for musky. 

No matter what your favorite fish is, if you match the rod, line and tackle to that species they can all put up a heck of a fight.  It just depends on if you are fishing for food or fishing for fun and sport, how you gear up to chase whatever you are after. 

[walleyepac]

Nice feedback on this thread, wax u took the words rite out of my mouth, when i read musky8its last post,  matching your gear for the occasion is what the sport and the thrill is all about. I bass tournament fished for 8 yrs. and was primarily the only fish I targeted until about 7 yrs. ago and then I got this overwhelming disease called walleye fever and still have yet to find a cure! I used to catch musky bass fishing, they were a thrill, biggest was 42" but personally a Steelhead gave me the biggest thrill pound for pound, anyways to each his own, iw remember different times I would see musky floating because they were knifed by some tournament fishermen of another species,  I could never support that idea but will say that Webster used to have giant redear and crappie, still catch some crappie, but the redear seemed to have disappeared?