Author Topic: Selective Harvest?  (Read 7416 times)

Offline High Tide

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Selective Harvest?
« on: Jan 10, 2013, 07:12 PM »
After reading the “Nyona Lake near Fulton…” thread I thought it would be interesting to talk “selective harvest” which I know may get out of hand… especially since everybody on this site gets extra cranky when the ice melts… but what the heck:
To start, I heard that the DNR are entertaining a size limit on crappies on a few public waters (Hardy Lake) in Indiana soon.  I’m all for it, just to see if it makes a difference or not.  I’d be all for a size and bag limit on gills too, at least to test out the idea and have some analytical data to make better assumptions moving forward.  Maybe pick a lake like Mud or Nyona that have seen declines.  I see a lot of faults with electro shocking for surveys, as well as, DNR surveying fisherman face to face. Example, if they electro shock for perch, how effective is that when they could be inhabiting 40 f.o.w? So why not throw alittle caution to the wind on a lake like Mud and put a bag and size limit on gills for a year or two… what do they/we have to lose? One thing I have no confidence in is leaving it up to fisherman to be “good self-managers” and control the urge of taking an appropriate amount of fish home for a date with a knife.  Fishermen are no different than any other man, always trying to prove their abilities, because it’s in our scientific nature.  When one man takes it to another level and becomes an avid angler via time, effort, trial and error, the sense of entitlement also grows and since he did the homework and spent the time he can take whatever the DNR says is lawful.  Really, because it’s not against the law, then it’s okay? Maybe I guess? One statement I do find correct is that 90% of the fisherman catch 10% of the fish and vice versa.  That 10% usually couldn’t eat the amount of fish he is capable of catching, so he starts giving them away, etc., etc., and those are the most dangerous fisherman to our resources.  However, most of the 10% I know, understand the damage they can inflict and our normally “good self-managers”.  The 90% couldn’t hurt a fishery, because they’re not educated to follow fish patterns, and the fish will adjust to what I call is “spot destruction”. Heck, I’ve seen the fish adjust to over pressure just last week… and the big breeder’s won’t tolerate the pressure, move to another location and the 90% are toast until the next season.  In short, fish balance themselves.  What we ALL lack is education from the biologists, and it’s not the biologists fault, it’s the lack of funds supporting their efforts to educate us.  Each lake, stream, river, reservoir is different, and would require different regulations for each lake, stream, etc., to maximize it’s potential, so I don’t think statewide blanket regulations are the answer.  However, if we knew more about fish genetics, and how they are transfer to over a period of time that would make an impact.  If we knew that a stock walleye over 24” would ever have a chance of spawning successfully.  Bottom-line, I eat, sleep and breathe fishing… and I wish I knew more about how I could be a better self-manager, but quite frankly, my assumptions are really just guesses and I can only hope I’m doing the right thing.  I’m for more biologist, more studies, and if that equates to more regulations… so be it!
What are your opinions?
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Offline rico

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #1 on: Jan 10, 2013, 07:19 PM »
That you dont have ice!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
 

Offline graham

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #2 on: Jan 10, 2013, 07:27 PM »
I can tell from experience that selective harvest, slots, seasons and things of that sort do work. When my grandfather was young you could catch stripers (which we called rockfish) in the Chesapeake and its tributaries practically with a bare hook(I have seen the pics). Overharvest ensued for years and by the time I was a little kid they were few and far between and became endangered. Then they had a limited season and a slot limit and the population came back bigtime.

Offline rico

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #3 on: Jan 10, 2013, 07:39 PM »
Hmmmmm.....no reply to that one???????

In all seriousness, I do see what you are saying and to some degrees I agree with it.  But my life experiences have taught me never to trust "scientists".  What do they know anyway?  When I was in school I learned about a planet called Pluto and a dinosaur named a brontosauraus.  Now that I am on the down hill slide of life, I learn that Pluto is no longer a planet and "Dino" from the "Flintsones" never existed.  Science changes as much as our economy in my opinion.  I dont always buy what the bioligist says, I listen, but dont always agree.  Examples are river otters, groundhogs, asian beattles.......etc.  But I am all for limits on bluegill and perch.  I also wouldnt be opposed to a size limit on crappie.  Just my thoughts.......
 

Offline rcjim

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #4 on: Jan 10, 2013, 07:41 PM »
Lets leave the rules and regulations and bag limits to the experts who know what they are doing. I have been fishing for gills and crappie my whole life and I am catching just as many if not more now as I was 25 years ago on the same lakes. The Indiana DNR does a great job for us and if they ever see fit to implement some of the things you mentioned I would support them, but until then I'm going to keep slaying slabs and delivering fish to my Dad, who taught me to fish and can no longer get out himself.

Offline walleyepac

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #5 on: Jan 10, 2013, 07:45 PM »
I m all for a 9-10 " crappie limit which is the case in OH. As for the gills I would like to see a slot limit  from say,  may15- thru June just my 2 cents

Offline marmooskapaul

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #6 on: Jan 10, 2013, 07:45 PM »
There is not enough beer in my fridge to tackle this..lol..Although I would love to see the IDNR manage a couple lakes for trophy gills. Take a couple lakes 300 acres or less and require all gills over 9" let go or whatever would be the smartest way to manage that particular lake for trophy gills? I' ve seen multiple lakes with bass slot limits, but can't say if they made a difference? patoka is a very nice bass fishery now, don't know if the slot limit is the reason? I do agree that I don't trust fishermen to do the right thing. I don't mean all fishermen dont care, they do. The bass catch and release movement proves they do. Sometimes fishermen need to remove more bass and DNR' s have found it hard to get fisherman to keep bass, for better management on certain lakes. I do believe bluegill limits (15 or 20) could be beneficial on some lakes. Some lakes need as much removed as possible. Each lake is different.  On most lakes it is easier to add fish than take away. Meaning once a lake is stunted it' s hard to reverse that trend.
In general, I do not think fish are as smart as HT! Although his results are hard to argue with... OK I' m getting low on beer...
Paul
 

Offline pgaschulz

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #7 on: Jan 10, 2013, 07:45 PM »
If we release some of the larger fish and keep the mid size this would help....

Offline High Tide

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #8 on: Jan 10, 2013, 07:48 PM »
Hmmmmm.....no reply to that one???????

I wasn't following... could read that many ways... LOL
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Offline pgaschulz

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #9 on: Jan 10, 2013, 07:48 PM »
Oh as for limits I have witnesse first hand in Wisconsin guys limiting out on Walleye going to there cabin, cleaning them then back at it....unreal!

Offline graham

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #10 on: Jan 10, 2013, 07:52 PM »
Hmmmmm.....no reply to that one???????

Back from when we took pictures with a camera snd got the film developed st the drug store. ;)



But on topic...can bluegills and crappies be fished out?  I don't know. I would think if they couldn't the DNR wouldn't have put a bag limit on Willow Slough gills.

Offline rico

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #11 on: Jan 10, 2013, 07:52 PM »
I wasn't following... could read that many ways... LOL

I meant it only one way... ;D
 

Offline High Tide

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #12 on: Jan 10, 2013, 07:52 PM »
Lets leave the rules and regulations and bag limits to the experts who know what they are doing. I have been fishing for gills and crappie my whole life and I am catching just as many if not more now as I was 25 years ago on the same lakes. The Indiana DNR does a great job for us and if they ever see fit to implement some of the things you mentioned I would support them, but until then I'm going to keep slaying slabs and delivering fish to my Dad, who taught me to fish and can no longer get out himself.
Rcjim, just to clarify, I'm not taking aim to those that support Pops with all he can eat.  ;D Thanks for the reply...
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Offline wax_worm

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #13 on: Jan 10, 2013, 07:54 PM »
I agree with pretty much everything you said, the main thing being enforcement becuase limits only work if someone makes sure they are followed.  I have seen enough people in my day that don't and won't follow the 25 crappie limit.  I know one guy that has been busted 3 times and thinks it's a game between him and the DNR.  I also know that some lakes could be harmed by a limit on gills but I tihnk the limit on gills should be enforced durning the spawning months for sure and would not have an issue with a 25 fish limit year round on them.  The state also has to deal with the differences in temps and growth rates between N Indiana and S Indiana when setting limits.  You said to try it on a lake or two and see the results, but the problem is every lake is different in its ecosystem as you said and fishing pressure on one lake may differ widely from others.  I fish alot of Michigan waters and they limit panfish (perch, crappie and gills) to 25 total per day.  Their lakes blow most indiana lakes away in the quality of panfish they kick out, and the pressure on them is no less than Indiana lakes.  I also see michigan CO's about 5 times to every 1 time I see an IN CO.  If people that want to break the law fear they may be caught because the CO makes himself visible, the less those people overharvest. 

Offline graham

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #14 on: Jan 10, 2013, 07:55 PM »
I wasn't following... could read that many ways... LOL

Sorry if that wasn't clear. I was saying that I believe selective harvest helps keep robust fish populations.

Offline rico

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #15 on: Jan 10, 2013, 07:55 PM »
@ Allen, I have no idea what you are talking about??????

@Doug, great topic.
 

Offline marmooskapaul

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #16 on: Jan 10, 2013, 07:56 PM »
If we release some of the larger fish and keep the mid size this would help....
I agree but do you know how hard it is to throw a 9" gill back to keep a 7" gill...lol
 paul

Offline High Tide

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #17 on: Jan 10, 2013, 07:58 PM »
On most lakes it is easier to add fish than take away. Meaning once a lake is stunted it' s hard to reverse that trend.

Paul
That is an excellent point Paul... Like golf beer even makes you a better thinker!!  ;D
I wish I was good at ice fishing!

Offline marmooskapaul

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #18 on: Jan 10, 2013, 08:02 PM »
That is an excellent point Paul... Like golf beer even makes you a better thinker!!  ;D
Try convincing my wife of that...lmao
 paul

Offline High Tide

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #19 on: Jan 10, 2013, 08:16 PM »
I agree with pretty much everything you said, the main thing being enforcement becuase limits only work if someone makes sure they are followed.  I have seen enough people in my day that don't and won't follow the 25 crappie limit.  I know one guy that has been busted 3 times and thinks it's a game between him and the DNR.  I also know that some lakes could be harmed by a limit on gills but I tihnk the limit on gills should be enforced durning the spawning months for sure and would not have an issue with a 25 fish limit year round on them.  The state also has to deal with the differences in temps and growth rates between N Indiana and S Indiana when setting limits.  You said to try it on a lake or two and see the results, but the problem is every lake is different in its ecosystem as you said and fishing pressure on one lake may differ widely from others.  I fish alot of Michigan waters and they limit panfish (perch, crappie and gills) to 25 total per day.  Their lakes blow most indiana lakes away in the quality of panfish they kick out, and the pressure on them is no less than Indiana lakes.  I also see michigan CO's about 5 times to every 1 time I see an IN CO.  If people that want to break the law fear they may be caught because the CO makes himself visible, the less those people overharvest.
Good post! I would like to add that Kentucky Lake biologists are looking into closing spawning area (bays) as oppose to making seasons, which I think is a great idea!
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Offline wax_worm

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #20 on: Jan 10, 2013, 08:19 PM »
Good post! I would like to add that Kentucky Lake biologists are looking into closing spawning area (bays) as oppose to making seasons, which I think is a great idea!

Has Kentucky lake's crappies declined over recent years?  That is such a huge body of water I would think it wouldn't be an issue there, but it probably gets huge amounts of pressure too.

Offline GIBBS

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #21 on: Jan 10, 2013, 08:21 PM »
I could get behind a bag limit on gills and crappie but no slot,cuz cleaning 7"ers is depressing.

Offline rico

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #22 on: Jan 10, 2013, 08:24 PM »
Good post! I would like to add that Kentucky Lake biologists are looking into closing spawning area (bays) as oppose to making seasons, which I think is a great idea!

That's great for you crappie guys that fish out of state in tournaments.  My tax dollars reside here. 
 

Offline sprkplug

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #23 on: Jan 10, 2013, 08:26 PM »
Can I just cut and paste my replies from a couple years ago? ;D  Seriously though, it's a sensitive subject but I enjoy hearing from all sides. And I usually learn something new each time also...... always a worthwhile endeavour.

http://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/index.php?topic=180008.msg1748406#msg1748406

Offline rico

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #24 on: Jan 10, 2013, 08:30 PM »
I am bowing out of this one before I say something I shouldnt.  Have fun fellas.
 

Offline marmooskapaul

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #25 on: Jan 10, 2013, 08:33 PM »
That's great for you crappie guys that fish out of state in tournaments.  My tax dollars reside here.
it could be applied here? michigan has all kinds of seasons on fishing, that could be applied to indiana. if it improves the fishing. let them test it on their lakes and if it works use it on ours.


   

Offline wawaseebass

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #26 on: Jan 10, 2013, 08:41 PM »
I go to Michigan to do all of my crappie fishing and usually do 75% of my bass fishing in Michigan after the season opens too  ;D. Michigan has much better average sizes of everything I have ever fished for, I fish about 15 different lakes in Michigan pretty regularly.

Offline High Tide

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #27 on: Jan 10, 2013, 08:43 PM »
Can I just cut and paste my replies from a couple years ago? ;D  Seriously though, it's a sensitive subject but I enjoy hearing from all sides. And I usually learn something new each time also...... always a worthwhile endeavour.

http://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/index.php?topic=180008.msg1748406#msg1748406
Yikes!!  :o JT, lock this before it turns into this link above... Ah heck, leave it... at least we'll have a place to blow off some steam!!  ;D
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Offline pgaschulz

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #28 on: Jan 10, 2013, 08:45 PM »
That's great for you crappie guys that fish out of state in tournaments.  My tax dollars reside here.
Classic....

Offline High Tide

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Re: Selective Harvest?
« Reply #29 on: Jan 10, 2013, 08:46 PM »
I am bowing out of this one before I say something I shouldnt.  Have fun fellas.
Easy Rico... easy does it... Life is short and this is just a gentlemen's discussion!
I wish I was good at ice fishing!

 



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