IceShanty.com's Ice Fishing Community
Ice Fishing Tips -Check your local regulations! => Northern Pike => Topic started by: Ironeagle on Jan 15, 2011, 07:22 PM
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i just stared pike fishing, we get pickeral, bass, and pike in the20-30in range and also guys getting them up around 35inches or so. i first started off with 12lb test then went up to 17 on some of my tip ups. this is flourocarbon line. when i set the hook im have my line break on the hook set. not sure if im setting to hard or they are cutting through my line or its my knot???? i tried setting the hook with just a flick of the wrist and still today broke one off on the hook set(17lb), i dont think it was a big fish either. and it always seem to break either at the knot or just above it, i dont know. i tie a trilene knot and wet it very well and pull it and set it slow and easy. got any advice? i shouldnt be breakin my line on the hook sets llike this. also im using berkley vanish flourocarbon. thanks
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Try 80lb floro.
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that would almost be about like using a steel leader, as far as fish seeing it. plus the price... i couldnt imagine what 80lb flouro costs.
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one nick in Fluorocarbon and you may as well not even have it.
Switch to a superbraid. The pike won't notice the difference, and it may give you the edge that you need to land a few.
Wiener
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a 2 lb pike could cut 17 lb flouro with ease. Also, vanish is junk. get some seguar or ande in 50 to 80 lb. Pricey, yes, but worth it. You will get bit off if you use braid as well.
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You're not breaking off, you're getting cut off. There's a big difference.
Get rid of the plastic leaders (mono, fluoro, and 'superline' are all plastic) and go to a 15-20# test uncoated steel leader. Thin, flexible, inexpensive and cut proof(but not break proof, you can still lose a fish by horsing it). You can also easily tie your own with no crimps.
Wanna test your leader for bite offs? Pike teeth are as sharp as a fresh razor blade. Get a single edge blade and lay your leader across it. Apply a little pressure and get it to slide; you'll get an idea of your protection level. Any superline (fused, braid doesn't matter) in any test # would be my last choice................ ......... (Sorry Weiner)
If I were forced to use plastic it would be a high test leader fluoro followed closely by a same sized hard mono(intended for leaders). Anything (fluoro included) coming off a spool intended for casting would be next to the end just ahead of any gel spun product. No plastic products in any test are cut proof.
Just my opinion based on my experiences, user mileage may vary.................
/m
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Don't be sorry Esox_XTM,
As you said in your post.... "User mileage may vary.."
I have been using braids without a problem, but then again I have not caught a pike larger than #34 inches.
Superbraids work fine for the "snakes" and "hammer handles" but not for the large pike.
Wiener
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Steel leader. If your knot is good you'll be good to go.
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Im so used to fishing for stuff that is line sensative, the pike dont mind the steel leaders? also can you give me some brands to try out and how long?
Also i sometimes target pickeral and bass while out for pike, do i just have to set up dif or is there something i can use to get away with fish all those species at once? thanks so much for the help guys i have been getting frustrated with the break offs. :-\
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I've been using 50 lb mono for the past 2 years with great results, both open water and icefishing. No break/cut offs yet. I've broke 3 steel leaders from it wearing at the crimp.
Theres a BIG difference between mono, and mono leader material. The stuff I use is 4.99 @ Dicks sporting goods. Its the Ande leader material, blue spool. Give it a try, I think you'll like it.
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This is what the spool looks like.
(http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp122/jhuard98/Line-1.jpg)
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thanks, what do you think the dif are between leader material and the reg spools. i always thought it was just made to carry it more convenient?
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Seems to be more durable than regular mono. Also seems to be more resistant to cold water. I've seen regular mono get real brittle after a few trips. No facts to back it, just what i've seen.
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You almost have to have a leader when fishing for pike I use 6"-9" leader and never have this problem. :tipup:
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I agree with essox, I use nothing but steel. One little nick even in 50 or 60lb means a break off. That next fish you break off might be a 20lber. On another note, I believe everyone gives pike too much credit as far as bite sensitivity. I've caught alot of big pike on tip ups and I have never noticed them to be shy at all. They will crunch right down on a sucker whether there's a hook in it or not. I would not get all caught up on that but make sure you use good knots and that all swivels are in good working shape. Just make sure you have a good 12" or longer steel snelled hook. Bigger pike take the bait in much farther than small ones. Just my 2 cents :)
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I do a lot of catch and release fishing, so I prefer not to use steel. But I don't want to lose a fish of a life time either. I have had great results using 80 pound spiderwire. I put on a 3-4 foot leader of spiderwire below my main line on the tip-ups. The main line I use on my tip-ups is 25 or 30 pound mono (taken off of my salmon fishing rods at the end of the season). I have not had a fish break my spiderwire in 3 years of fishing it, and have a few bite through the plain mono. With a 3 to 4 foot leader, I can retie if I feel any nicks after bring in a fish.
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All of my pike fishing is catch and release. I use nothing but single hooks and let the fish run properly. A treble lodged way down in the gullet is way worse than a steel leader. Besides, if we do get a deep hooked fish I always cut the leader to the hook if I can but it is a rare occasion that we can't get a single hook out. I went all through the years of mono of any kind and it breaks. Plan and simple. Don't want to start any riots or anything, just stating from what I have learned from fishing in a lake that 34 and 40 inch fish are common. Do what you want with that mono, I myself don't like breaking off fish that I might have wated all day for.
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i use 80 lb seagur floro. I use steel too. and really thin titanium. Ive had 30lb steel break twice. it gets crimped and worn.
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I use Castalia Outdoor's Liquid Steel leaders. When I use prefabbed leaders, I cut the swivel off and either use clips and make a lighter attachment to the hook or just tie a knot all together. The less between your reel and the fish, the better.
http://www.luresonline.com/12lb15insnapleader-3.aspx (http://www.luresonline.com/12lb15insnapleader-3.aspx)
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What kind of hooks are you using? It sounds like you are having exactly the same problem I was earlier this winter. I switched over to using #4 trebles and I kept getting bit off through 20lb fluoro. I noticed that the trebles were hooking deeper so the leader was definitely in their teeth. I switched half of my tip-ups to trebles on 60lb fluoro leaders (using wire crimps) and haven't had any bite-offs but i'm still hooking kind of deep. The other half of my tip-ups i went back to 2/0 shiner hooks and I might miss the occasional fish but every one I hook is right in the corner of the mouth and the leader is not against teeth. Also I would recommend the palomar knot, it's really easy to tie with heavier line.
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thank you so much for all your help. i am using #10 trebles (2 xtra strong)
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if i get some leaders to try what length do you recomend? i was thinking of getting 12''
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I use 3-4'. gives me plenty of extra to re tieif needed.
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I have alreadyt given my advice from 30+ yrs of pike fishing with tip ups. You can listen to all of the mono and trebel crap you want but I'm telling you that it's common sense that plastic line of any sort will break on teeth that are sharp as a razor. I have also landed several pike within this last week that have treble hooks lodged deep down in the gullet. My hooks come right out and I have to release those pike with those trebles still in there. It really ticks me off when I know that it's just a matter of common sense that would take care of this problem. Sounds to me like you are going to use those trebles and plastic line anyway, so just go for it. Down the road when you start breaking decent fish off, take a look back at this post. Maybe then you will understand. Don't mean to be all grumpy about this but I just know what I know from making those mistakes myself. Improvement means getting better at something, not doing the same thing over and over with the same result. Hammer handles won't break mono but big pike will.
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That's weird. Big pike will break it off. I got a 28.84 pounder on flouro!
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That's great taggin out, I have also caught some big pike on floro myself but I did break alot more off. I'm just saying that I don't take any more chances. Sure, you might catch a few but why would you take that chance that a trophy pike like the one you caught could have shaved right through that line? I realy don't think that pike are so mouth sensitive that they can feel your leader. I do on the other hand believe that the steel should be nice and straight off the line. No kinks in other words. But if they have a mouth full of mono, it's the same as a steel leader. Steel is actually finer than alot of mono. I'm never fishing mono again for pike. Learned my lesson one time and that's all I need. Like I said, I'm not trying to start a gripe thread on mono verses steel. Just don't want to see the guy get broke off every 3 or 4 fish.
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3 foot 40lb fluoro leader and 1/0 inline circle hooks. Most all are hooked in the corner of the mouth, no where near those teeth.
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I have to admit, I am curious about circle hooks. Do you get any deep hooked fish, or do those circle hooks get rid of that? Also what size are you using? Really the only time that mono is a problem is when it's inside the pikes mouth. In the last week I've seen too many trebles down in the gullet. On one pike on sat. there was a treble down in the gullet with the third hook situated right in the middle of the throat pathway. Anything that pike swallowed would get caught on it and not even go down. Another question on the circle hooks, do you set the hook or just apply pressure?
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I have to admit, I am curious about circle hooks. Do you get any deep hooked fish, or do those circle hooks get rid of that? Also what size are you using? Really the only time that mono is a problem is when it's inside the pikes mouth. In the last week I've seen too many trebles down in the gullet. On one pike on sat. there was a treble down in the gullet with the third hook situated right in the middle of the throat pathway. Anything that pike swallowed would get caught on it and not even go down. Another question on the circle hooks, do you set the hook or just apply pressure?
With circle hooks, you simply have to apply pressure. They are designed to slide to the corner of the mouth. If you set the hook, you may just pull the hook right out of the mouth. Circle hooks will not eliminate the gullet problem all together, but about 90% of the fish you catch with them will be hooked with the line outside of the mouth, which is important if you are one that insists on using anything other than steal.
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I have alreadyt given my advice from 30+ yrs of pike fishing with tip ups. You can listen to all of the mono and trebel crap you want but I'm telling you that it's common sense that plastic line of any sort will break on teeth that are sharp as a razor. I have also landed several pike within this last week that have treble hooks lodged deep down in the gullet. My hooks come right out and I have to release those pike with those trebles still in there. It really ticks me off when I know that it's just a matter of common sense that would take care of this problem. Sounds to me like you are going to use those trebles and plastic line anyway, so just go for it. Down the road when you start breaking decent fish off, take a look back at this post. Maybe then you will understand. Don't mean to be all grumpy about this but I just know what I know from making those mistakes myself. Improvement means getting better at something, not doing the same thing over and over with the same result. Hammer handles won't break mono but big pike will.
Not responding to this to cause an arguement, so i'm hoping you dont take it that way ;D ;D But this is the exact set up I use, and I've never had a break off, and never had one swallow a trebel. BUT... I often re-tie when the line feels worn, and dont give em enough time to swallow it. I've had 3 steel leaders break at the hole, all from the leader wearing at the crimp. My catch rate has nearly doubled since switching to mono, as the water is crystal clear in most of the lakes in Maine.
But again, theres quite a difference between Mono, and Mono leader material. I also use this in the summer, and it stands up to hook sets with a 7' rod all day long.
Again, no harsh meanings behind this ;D
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As for the circle hooks.... i've never had good luck with them, especially with pike. I was running about 1:4 ratio, I'd feel stready pressure for a couple pulls, then it'd let go. Just my experience with them.
There seem to work better for bass from what I've seen.
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With circles I tend to set the hook with a moderate long pull when the fish is moving away slow. If its moving slow I know its mouth is closed, and the leader isn't going to be put under enough tension to bite or snap off on a modest hookset. I also dont go under the baits spine with the hook, when rigging it up. I wouldn't say I have missed any more fish using circles than I have with any other hook. I have heard/know others that don't care for them... I would say they are worth a try atleast. Maybe you will like them maybe you won't. My favorite is a Gamakatsu 1/0 Inline Straight Eye Octopus circle.
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First off, I'de like to appolagize to any one I may have offended from my posts. I am a caretaker on a private lake here in upstate NY. I am also self employed and this time of year is slow for me, so I am fishing this lake everyday from Jan thru March. Like I said before, the average pike in this lake are 35 to 38", so I get my share of decent sized pike to practice on. We also have a very good population of Largemouths here that are very active through the winter months. Alot of the bigger bass are caught on tip ups every year. I fish for the bass in the summer and catch alot of them that are throat hooked with trebles. There are increasing amounts the past few years. Two yrs ago I imparted a catch and release program and it's doing quite well. Numbers are up and I will probably be able to drop the C+R program in a yr or 2. I am concerned now about all of these throat hooked fish. I know that it's a common thing that happens while ice fishing. It happens to me now and then. The past two yrs I used mono all the time. Had to check line often for abrasions. It got to the point where I was coming home with a bunch of hooks that had to be retied. Went through alot of 40 and 50lb test floro. Then the break offs started. One morning I was fishing with Irish Jigger and I broke off the pike of the yr. Had this mammoth at the hole twice and could'nt get a hold of his gill. His eye was the size of a quarter. I was sure I had the biggest pike of my season, and my life. That's when he went into the death spin and sawed me right off clean. Just like a fresh razor cut through it. I went back to steel and I'm stayin with it. If I had landed that fish it would have been released and I would have a replica made. I was a fly fishing guide for 15yrs so C+R is the only way I go. As we chat on this forum, we sometimes don't know anything about who we are talking to. Because of the past fly tying seminars I have done along with the guiding, I am only allowed to give advice from my own experience. Did not mean to offend anyone with with my grumpy old self. I love this site and have gotten alot of really good advice from it. When I hear a question, I want to answer it with what I know and I know that all of you guys do as well. I'm gonna leave it at that.
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Sorry forgot to add thanks to pike addict, I will try those hooks. I have heard alot about them and it sounds like you just have to get used to them. I use 1\0 now in the long shanks. I would use mono if I could keep it out of the inside of there mouth.
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no, thats okay i sent you a PM (old man).
i have used circle hooks in open water. on thing i have noticed is you have to use a good sized circle for it to perform well, i like using smaller hooks. and i also like setting the hook on a fish, one of my favorite parts of fishing is that second when i set the hook and feel the weight. so i gave up on them. it takes some getting used to circles. i used those gamagatsu ones and they are hella sharp.
i thank all of you for your help! when i get a nice one i will post it up. here is a pic of my first pike ever..
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iceshanty13/IMG_0423.jpg)
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I am concerned now about all of these throat hooked fish. I know that it's a common thing that happens while ice fishing. It happens to me now and then.
Have you ever tried any of the quick strike rigs? I tie my own up sometimes and the fish NEVER get any of the hooks in their throat. All the hooks are right in the kisser. You never have to let the fish run, just walk to your tip-up and start to bring in the line, even if they are running. You also hardly ever lose a fish as well.
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Nice pike for your first one Ironeagle.
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Not a bad first one at all.
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I feel the leader/floral/braid is over rated
I use berkley vinyl coated line with a berkley swivel- the snap kind. hooked up directly to a trebile hook. i would say my average is about 80% the other 20% the bait is in good shape meaning a bite wasnt taken. 41.5" biggest this year and about 40 fish on the ice so something is worken ha ha
vinyl line doesnt freeze so that is a bonus
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It is all about the leader. Use a long steel leader and some good line and knot. It is the teeth that are messing you up. :tipup: