What are the best leaders for pike?

[Finnt]

well i use it for every species that swim here in mi.from monster flatheads,sturgeon and king salmon.everyone has their own opinion but i think flouro is coily stiff crap.i will add overpriced too.lol plain old berkley big game gets it done..

I use 40# power pro, it works just fine just don't horse them in let them run about 3 times an they tire out very quickly. I also use a gaff to lift out of hole, going to eat it anyways. If it's to small I don't use gaff. You will get more action on power pro than you will with floro. the same diameter it's just more limp and the bait swims more freely. Also use #10  treble hooks in red. I have fought and cought every kind of game fish with this set up  for many years. Use what ever you think works for your set and let the bite tell you what works. Good luck on what you figure out and play the fish and don't horse them.

[esox_xtm]

See watcha did here Max? Predictable as the sunrise... 

[nbourque]

I use 40# power pro, it works just fine just don't horse them in let them run about 3 times an they tire out very quickly. I also use a gaff to lift out of hole, going to eat it anyways. If it's to small I don't use gaff. You will get more action on power pro than you will with floro. the same diameter it's just more limp and the bait swims more freely. Also use #10  treble hooks in red. I have fought and cought every kind of game fish with this set up  for many years. Use what ever you think works for your set and let the bite tell you what works. Good luck on what you figure out and play the fish and don't horse them.

Power pro as a leader? Are u kidding me? Braid is the absolute worst kind of line you could use for a leader. Not abrasion resistant at all. Some of u guys are leaving me scratching my head....

[FreshwaterPhil]

Power pro as a leader? Are u kidding me? Braid is the absolute worst kind of line you could use for a leader. Not abrasion resistant at all. Some of u guys are leaving me scratching my head....

agreed

[DR.SPECKLER]

Braid does suck for leader.frays real bad on rocks/structure  or by esox teeth.

[HWeber]

There's a few that post here that argue braid makes a great leader. I use steel,  sometimes as low as 10 pound test. 49 stand steel is nearly as limp as braid and pretty darn thin.  Apparently ND pike are blind,  using plastic hasn't really crossed my mind

[johnsonaaro]

I've had a ~24" pike cut through 130 lb flouro on an open water live bait rig... 29 lb afw is where it's at hands down.

[Papa Sly]

as long as you dont mind getting 1/3 as many flags

[esox_xtm]

as long as you dont mind getting 1/3 as many flags

I'm not convinced Papa. Let's say you're out fishing me 3 to 1. Let's change holes and bait and see what happens. Bet you won't be outfishing me then. Lot depends on location. Even a difference of 20'. and the bait you use: species, size and how cared for.

Way too many variables to simplify it down to leader material. Not discounting your experiences. That's, what we all base our opinions on, just sayin'.

[FreshwaterPhil]

I'm not convinced Papa. Let's say you're out fishing me 3 to 1. Let's change holes and bait and see what happens. Bet you won't be outfishing me then. Lot depends on location. Even a difference of 20'. and the bait you use: species, size and how cared for.

Way too many variables to simplify it down to leader material. Not picking, just sayin'.

On my end, I've run even test with even bait for a couple seasons. Depending on the zone, we can fish either 5 or 10 lines per license.
As we are not permitted the use of live bait here, I fish with frozen 6-8 inch mackerels. Lines in the test period were staggered.

I also tested using smaller smelts as bait, conclusion was the same. Also, frozen mackerels did better than smelt on days where I tested against each other. Capelins sucked.

Those are the only 3 species of grocery store bought baitfish we can legally use. Local bait shops don't sell too many big minnows any more, and they are way more expensive, not to mention harder to find. Guessing it isn't really worth their while to trap and freeze them in bulk.


 

[Papa Sly]

I'm not convinced Papa. Let's say you're out fishing me 3 to 1. Let's change holes and bait and see what happens. Bet you won't be outfishing me then. Lot depends on location. Even a difference of 20'. and the bait you use: species, size and how cared for.

Way too many variables to simplify it down to leader material. Not discounting your experiences. That's, what we all base our opinions on, just sayin'.

I respect your opinion as much as much as anyone here, you were the one that told me how to set up the experiment a few years ago. Thats why all the tip were set up exactly the same with the same size bait at the same depth off the bottom. Tips were rotated every 1/2 hour to insure fair coverage through out the day over an 8 hour period. I agree that a lot depends on location which is why I rotated tips every 1/2 hour from location to location as you had suggested.If we can make every other part of the equation as equal as possible, then the leaders are the main difference. Every tip, placed the same off the bottom, spending the same amount of time in each hole location, with the same bling on each leader, same size bait, is about all I can do I think. Do you have any more suggestions for this year???

[esox_xtm]

You've done a pretty good job of trying to cover the bases Papa. You certainly put a lot more effort into it than most folks would  .

Still, to try to isolate a significance that has multiple variables/factors is very difficult. Again, I don't intend to discredit or belittle efforts spent. I spent my last 20 years at work gathering and analyzing process data, creating performance forecasts and using some pretty high-powered software to design and analyze multifactorial experiments so I tend to look at these things a bit differently than most folks. One of the experiments we ran took the best part of three shifts over as many days. The thing was a bust as one of the factors that we only casually considered but included had so much more significance that the ones we really wanted to look at it totally obscured  any meaningful analysis of those.

So what else is there? Stuff you can't control but still have to account for:

Time of day
Solunar windows
Changes in barometric pressure
Changes in light intensity
Noise on the ice or lack of it
Noise from nearby landbased stuff (No I'm not kidding. We got one lake here that when a train goes by four blocks away we always, well almost always, get a flag and it is a fish)

There's a half a dozen possible unaccounted for influences in your data set. Please don't take any of this personally. I think your engagement and efforts are admirable. I've got some things I need to do experiment-wise also but I've gotta finish getting settled up here.

[Finnt]

Power pro as a leader? Are u kidding me? Braid is the absolute worst kind of line you could use for a leader. Not abrasion resistant at all. Some of u guys are leaving me scratching my head....

I bet if we fished side by side I would land more fish than you and I might take more time to land the fish. I used to use 20 lbs  big game mono but I found that the braid is much more limp for live bait witch is what I use in my home lakes. Now if I was using dead bait I would use wire and for open water also fishing for pike because the pike get airborne and shake their heads alot. Under the ice they react differently, i know you know this but just let the line loose more in your fingers when they shake their heads and run, it's not a race to see how fast you land the fish. Use what ever works for your lake that you fish . Tip uup!!!!!

[nbourque]

I bet if we fished side by side I would land more fish than you and I might take more time to land the fish. I used to use 20 lbs  big game mono but I found that the braid is much more limp for live bait witch is what I use in my home lakes. Now if I was using dead bait I would use wire and for open water also fishing for pike because the pike get airborne and shake their heads alot. Under the ice they react differently, i know you know this but just let the line loose more in your fingers when they shake their heads and run, it's not a race to see how fast you land the fish. Use what ever works for your lake that you fish . Tip uup!!!!!

If that’s what u want to use for a leader then by all means use it but you’re rolling the dice every time u hook into a fish. Maybe the one time u break off will be on a 30 pounder? I don’t horse my fish in either.

[Finnt]

I have been rolling 7s for a long time  then. I should be in Vegas  we don't have 30# pike in Wisconsin maybe 6-12lbs . I don't think you catch 30# pike but it's nice to dream of on that size. Maine  st record is 31.2. You must be a pro fisherman to lose a 30# fish all the time wow

[nbourque]

I have been rolling 7s for a long time  then. I should be in Vegas  we don't have 30# pike in Wisconsin maybe 6-12lbs . I don't think you catch 30# pike but it's nice to dream of on that size. Maine  st record is 31.2. You must be a pro fisherman to lose a 30# fish all the time wow

Do what u will man. It’s a free country. 6-12# pike in Wisconsin? That’s it? I have never caught a 30# pike. Dunno why u think I did? My biggest is 24# with multiple in the 15-20# range. We have lots of big pike here in Maine. Anything less than 15# is considered small.

[esox_xtm]

Finnt, you need to take a trip up to GB/Door County late season. You CAN crack a 30# (maybe) there plus average size is much larger. Biggest pike I ever had on in WI was at Fox Lake. Hadn't had a flag all day and finally popped one on a smelt. Took three nice runs from the hole so I got a good look, Easily 42 - 44" which would have put her in the 20 - 22# range. Fourth time past the hole I was sure she was  gonna come. She just rolled on her side, opened her mouth right under the hole and everything just lifted out. Except the fish. Never got a hook. She'd crushed it so hard I never caught any meat with a point. Had that happen with muskies on rubber (a lot) and wood jerkbaits but never with a Q/S rig and deads. Can't win 'em all...

Too much pressure in WI to have a consistent crack at 40" fish. Few places like Madison (min size 40"), Big Cedar and a couple others. Then a coupla hands full of 32" minimum size but after that it's pretty much catch and keep most anything of legal length is kept. It really is the pressure here that keeps our pike from reaching their potential.

FWIW a 30# pike will be almost 50". Pretty few and far in between anywhere. My open water fishin' partner took a guided trip to AK one August. Way up the river, lived on a houseboat for a week, caught dozens of 40"s but only one 50" caught during that week. he nailed a 50.25" and he was so proud. Even there 50's are not all that common.

I will not take nbourque's comment as he catches 50s all the time rather, when you have the fish of a lifetime on the other end, that you do not want to be seriously compromised. And I happily subscribe to that!

[nbourque]

Finnt, you need to take a trip up to GB/Door County late season. You CAN crack a 30# (maybe) there plus average size is much larger. Biggest pike I ever had on in WI was at Fox Lake. Hadn't had a flag all day and finally popped one on a smelt. Took three nice runs from the hole so I got a good look, Easily 42 - 44" which would have put her in the 20 - 22# range. Fourth time past the hole I was sure she was  gonna come. She just rolled on her side, opened her mouth right under the hole and everything just lifted out. Except the fish. Never got a hook. She'd crushed it so hard I never caught any meat with a point. Had that happen with muskies on rubber (a lot) and wood jerkbaits but never with a Q/S rig and deads. Can't win 'em all...

Too much pressure in WI to have a consistent crack at 40" fish. Few places like Madison (min size 40"), Big Cedar and a couple others. Then a coupla hands full of 32" minimum size but after that it's pretty much catch and keep most anything of legal length is kept. It really is the pressure here that keeps our pike from reaching their potential.

FWIW a 30# pike will be almost 50". Pretty few and far in between anywhere. My open water fishin' partner took a guided trip to AK one August. Way up the river, lived on a houseboat for a week, caught dozens of 40"s but only one 50" caught during that week. he nailed a 50.25" and he was so proud. Even there 50's are not all that common.

I will not take nbourke's comment as he catches 50s all the time rather, when you have the fish of a lifetime on the other end, that you do not want to be seriously compromised. And I happily subscribe to that!

Exactly what I’m saying esox. Thank u.

[Iceassin]

 

[Dickbakers]

    Important to keep in mind!!  Pike don't have blade like teeth.  They have long very pointy teeth.  Result of story I did a decade ago.  Lot of pike heads and teeth.  Obvious why the super pointed feet of small pike might afraid line well.
Steel works but I think you will attract more pike with light abrasion proof line.  I'm also of the opinion that active live shiners work better than any dead bait.  Maybe at Ice out when bottom is littered with dead bait fish?

[esox_xtm]

  Important to keep in mind!!  Pike don't have blade like teeth.  They have long very pointy teeth.  Result of story I did a decade ago.  Lot of pike heads and teeth.  Obvious why the super pointed feet of small pike might afraid line well.
Steel works but I think you will attract more pike with light abrasion proof line.  I'm also of the opinion that active live shiners work better than any dead bait.  Maybe at Ice out when bottom is littered with dead bait fish?

Sorry Dick, fact is they ARE sharp on the sides as well as the points. Sharp as a razor. If you've ever been chewed on by a pike or musky it's easy to see they are literally cuts as opposed to punctures. Ever look at a big live bait come back from a pike you've missed? Slashed or shredded are very descriptive terms. Cut with razor sharp teeth as opposed to punctured with an ice pick. Walleyes have teeth like that but pike's are knife-like.

Or perhaps this is a confusion of terms where pike for Mr. Baker ARE walleyes and northern(pike) are known by another name (jacks?). In that case you WOULD be correct but my understand was this conversation was regarding northerns and not walleyes. If that's the case please accept my apologies.

[Esox fisherman]

From what I remember reading a long time ago you dont need a leader its how you play them
Because you could land them on 20lb or they could easily cut through 150lb fluorocarbon

[Papa Sly]

From what I remember reading a long time ago you dont need a leader its how you play them
Because you could land them on 20lb or they could easily cut through 150lb fluorocarbon

There are several things that matter when fishing pike. The first thing is where the hook is, if the fish swallows the hook, the leader will be running thru their teeth vs hooked in the lip or roof of the mouth where the leader probubly wont be affected. You have to have some kind of leader, you cant just tie it to the dacron backer!!! The difference in leader in some peoples opinion is line shyness from the pike, they are very lazy, warm blooded fish. Some of us believe that the more visable the line is the less flags you will get. Others believe you could use rope with a hook and it wouldnt matter. A lot of your cut offs come from when the pike turn or trying to turn the head up the hole and at that point leaders really matter.

[Dickbakers]

  .   Pike teeth?   Sorry,  Your correcting the wrong person.   Fishing writer for many decades.  Pike research was done with help of many fish experts.  I have personally she'd blood to picketed ,pike , walleye and even baracuda.  Now Cuba have cutting edge teeth!!
All of my research showed that Pike have "needle pointed teeth"
None show that they have the proverbial "razor sharp" sides.
I reiterate that pike teeth can be needle sharp BUT razor edged.
One abraids and the other slices like a razor.  I'm not saying that you weren't sliced by needle sharp pike.  I am saying that pike teeth don't have " razor sharp" sides.  Think what you want?
Dick

[Iceassin]

There are several things that matter when fishing pike. The first thing is where the hook is, if the fish swallows the hook, the leader will be running thru their teeth vs hooked in the lip or roof of the mouth where the leader probubly wont be affected. You have to have some kind of leader, you cant just tie it to the dacron backer!!! The difference in leader in some peoples opinion is line shyness from the pike, they are very lazy, warm blooded fish. Some of us believe that the more visable the line is the less flags you will get. Others believe you could use rope with a hook and it wouldnt matter. A lot of your cut offs come from when the pike turn or trying to turn the head up the hole and at that point leaders really matter.

 Pike are not always lazy. At times they can come in and take off like a rocket. I used to do a lot of spearing for them. Most of the time they would just saunter on up to the decoy for a look...which usually didn't end well for them  . But I have had them shoot in  from out of nowhere, with no warning from the decoy, grab it and go. The line I was using on the decoy was some sort of blue and white "twine". Think it was some sort of catfish line. But they never shied away from it.

[esox_xtm]

.   Pike teeth?   Sorry,  Your correcting the wrong person.   Fishing writer for many decades.  Pike research was done with help of many fish experts.  I have personally she'd blood to picketed ,pike , walleye and even baracuda.  Now Cuba have cutting edge teeth!!
All of my research showed that Pike have "needle pointed teeth"
None show that they have the proverbial "razor sharp" sides.
I reiterate that pike teeth can be needle sharp BUT razor edged.
One abraids and the other slices like a razor.  I'm not saying that you weren't sliced by needle sharp pike.  I am saying that pike teeth don't have " razor sharp" sides.  Think what you want?
Dick

Ok. "Sfunny though, all my reading, research and experience is exactly the opposite. Actually this is the first time I've heard anyone say this. Been around the block a few times myself. We can agree to disagree.

[Papa Sly]

Exactly what I’m saying esox. Thank u.

You may lose that fish of a lifetime with flouro but there is a good chance you would never have even had it hit with steel, JMHO

[Papa Sly]

.   Pike teeth?   Sorry,  Your correcting the wrong person.   Fishing writer for many decades.  Pike research was done with help of many fish experts.  I have personally she'd blood to picketed ,pike , walleye and even baracuda.  Now Cuba have cutting edge teeth!!
All of my research showed that Pike have "needle pointed teeth"
None show that they have the proverbial "razor sharp" sides.
I reiterate that pike teeth can be needle sharp BUT razor edged.
One abraids and the other slices like a razor.  I'm not saying that you weren't sliced by needle sharp pike.  I am saying that pike teeth don't have " razor sharp" sides.  Think what you want?
Dick
"Pike have rather large, fang-like teeth, both along the upper and lower jawline. In the frontal area, the teeth are smaller than the ones on the side, but they are more numerous. They are usually also somewhat angled inward." Fang like, not sharp on the sides.

[nbourque]

You may lose that fish of a lifetime with flouro but there is a good chance you would never have even had it hit with steel, JMHO

I agree

[Iceassin]

You may lose that fish of a lifetime with flouro but there is a good chance you would never have even had it hit with steel, JMHO

I'd feel a little different about it. I'd rather have that fish of a lifetime swim by my steel leader, than to lose it on inferior equipment. The old saying goes "You can't miss what you never had". But if I had one on...knew it was a good one...and lost it.