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IceShanty Main => General Ice Fishing Chit Chat => Topic started by: StrikeandCatch on Nov 20, 2020, 04:34 PM
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Hi guys,
I thought I'd share this little info-article I wrote on leaders for ice pike fishing. I hope you find it helpful and interesting!
Here is a link to the article: https://strikeandcatch.com/best-leader-for-ice-fishing-pike/ (https://strikeandcatch.com/best-leader-for-ice-fishing-pike/)
What're your go-to leaders for hard water?
Have a great weekend!
Max
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On the titanium, I'm seeing mixed reviews on this...some say you can tie it, others say you have to crimp. Some say it kinks, others no. Not really sold on this stuff. Change my mind. ;)
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On the titanium, I'm seeing mixed reviews on this...some say you can tie it, others say you have to crimp. Some say it kinks, others no. Not really sold on this stuff. Change my mind. ;)
Hi man, you make very good points! As mentioned in the article, crimping it is def the way to go! You can tie it...but honestly, trying to do that with stiff, cold fingers on the ice is pretty much impossible! :) Even at home, it's kinda a pain in the ass...I like to use crimps for my leaders, so for me, it's an obvious choice.
When it comes to kinking, I really gotta say that I only have good experiences with titanium in this regard. Sure, it'll kink eventually, all wires do sooner or later. But it really takes a lot of pike or musky before you'll start noticing kinks in the wire. That doesn't hold true for all types of titanium wires of course. But I have found the AFW and the Daiwa Prorex to be of a really high quality in this regard.
Tight lines and enjoy your upcoming weekend! And thanks for the read! :)
Max
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Sent you PM Max.
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I happen to have a pile of opinions on this particular topic, a great portion based on my first hand experimentation. First blush, I'll respectfully disagree with your choices Max. Here's how(and why) I roll:
Fluoro: Despite whatever marketing and anecdotal evidence fluoro still cuts. Period. More safety with greater diameter (higher pound test) but still cuttable with pike/musky teeth. Seen 80# cut with a guy that always bragged how it was all about how he was able to finesse fish on even light line. It just plain happens because it can. Additionally the flexibility of fluoro compared to a confident test of wire is very much stiffer. One day I'll do the study and publish here but the difference between 20# steel wire and even 50# fluoro is significant. Can that possibly be a plus? Sure, but most of the time folks are leaning toward a natural, frisky presentation.
Titanium: Ahhh, the sexy choice. I hate it. First, the single strand stuff that you have a link to is definitely NOT what I would characterize as flexible. I will agree that I would prefer crimping to tying (done both). I DO love how it resists curling and kinking. Second, it's very expensive. and third, it is not reliable.
My main gripe with Ti is it's durability. What ever kind you have, single or multi strand it stretches. A lot... Try it. Cut off a foot or so, what you might use for a leader. Hook something to each end so you can hang on, hold it out in front of you and pull. It Streeeeetches. It's really kinda fun. Go on, keep stretching. Do it a bunch. Know what happens eventually? It breaks. No warning, no visible damage, nothing. It just breaks. That makes me wary of using it as a leader material. Only if I change it out routinely, before it breaks would I have confidence in it. But then, there goes some of your savings on longevity.
So for me: It's steel wire. Cheap, easy to work with and truly cut-proof. Does "invisibility" matter? Fluoro is not really invisible but that's another discussion. And it's more expensive too.
Just my opinions based on my experiences. I've been reading about some using light fluoro (like 20#) for pike but it would take some convincing for me to believe that.
This is the short version ;)2 And thanks for sharing Max!
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I'm not a fan of titanium. Oh wait- I've never tried it. So I guess I have no opinion there. But the reason I haven't tried it is because my red coated wire works so dang well. I don't have a reason to "fix" what's working. Interesting read though about Ti. Thanks for taking the time to post it.
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Hand tied flouro for my money. Never had a line cut yet. Steel line great too, but seem to have slightly better hit ratio on fluoro. Stay away from not2kinky, total garbage.
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20 pound fluoro with a size 6 treble tied on with a clinch knot and the smallest split shot that will keep the bait down. I will never use a steel leader again after seeing the huge increase in the number of flags since going to fluoro. Easy to live with the rare bite off when you know the flag would never have gone up anyway with a steel leader on.
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This will be the season finally where I do a side by aide of steel and fluoro. I don’t like ti. Pain to work with.
I currently use 50lb fluoro and no breakoffs. We get into multiple 20s a year. I would rather fish steel to save some money and maybe I will after my head to head comparison.
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4ft of 17lb Berkley Floro circle hook.
All I know is I've tried 30-50lb floro leaders and every type of steel leaders there are and I've caught more fish with the 17lb floro.
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VTLakers, now you are talking. You came to the same conclusion that I have. In Champlain where I do most of my fishing, my 2 biggest pike were caught on panfish tipups using 6 pound test STREN with a size 12 treble presenting a fathead minnow. The small hook seems to avoid deep throat hooks and most of the time ends up hooking the pike in the extreme corner of the mouth, where the line is not even in contact with any part of the fish. It is heart stopping but when you know you have a big fish on you need to stick with the plan that works - NO HORSING and let the fish run as many times ( 10 plus runs in my extreme cases ) as necessary to get it tired out and vertical in the hole.
The 2 biggest pike that I mentioned, on 6 pound STREN ?? Very girthy 35 and 34 inch fish, easily 13 pounds each.
Another myth that I may as well bust while I am at it is " You can't catch crappies on tipups, only on tipdowns " WRONG ! Tipups with super sensitive flag trips and no resistance on the spool have put many, many crappies on the ice for me.
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This will be the season finally where I do a side by aide of steel and fluoro. I don’t like ti. Pain to work with.
I currently use 50lb fluoro and no breakoffs. We get into multiple 20s a year. I would rather fish steel to save some money and maybe I will after my head to head comparison.
I have personally done the side by side comparison in NY at Simon pond. Fished half the day and then switched the three with steel with the 3 tipups with 40# flouro. You get 7 type in NY. Exact same length leaders and blades and beads on, same size and color. Used medium large bait as that is the size of the hatch. The tip-ups were every other in a straight line and alternated half way thru the day. I did this 2 years in a row there but the first year I did not alternate half way thru, thought every other was a fair comparison. The results were astounding, between the 2 years it was 2 1/2 times more hits on flouro then there was on wire. Im not sure if it would have been different on titanium but this was wire. I have never had a bite off with flouro however am very aware it will happen some day. When I fish around here im Ma,NY,VT,NH, I would rather get 250% more flags and risk the bite off. I like many of you, live to ice fish so with the right set up and knowing how to fight the fish as long as it takes I am willing to take the time necessary. I watch my friends right next to me all the time get 2 flags all day while I run around all day because they insist on steel! If I am using a very large dead bait on 1 tip-up I may put steel out on that one. My biggest Pike was 42 1/2 inches on 8lb test with a $8 hook wgile fishing for bass and it was hooked deep and I still got it in with mono and no cut off!
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VTLakers, now you are talking. You came to the same conclusion that I have. In Champlain where I do most of my fishing, my 2 biggest pike were caught on panfish tipups using 6 pound test STREN with a size 12 treble presenting a fathead minnow. The small hook seems to avoid deep throat hooks and most of the time ends up hooking the pike in the extreme corner of the mouth, where the line is not even in contact with any part of the fish. It is heart stopping but when you know you have a big fish on you need to stick with the plan that works - NO HORSING and let the fish run as many times ( 10 plus runs in my extreme cases ) as necessary to get it tired out and vertical in the hole.
The 2 biggest pike that I mentioned, on 6 pound STREN ?? Very girthy 35 and 34 inch fish, easily 13 pounds each.
Another myth that I may as well bust while I am at it is " You can't catch crappies on tipups, only on tipdowns " WRONG ! Tipups with super sensitive flag trips and no resistance on the spool have put many, many crappies on the ice for me.
That is exactly why I like my HT ETU-10's. Large plastic spools and I can set the sensitivity surprisingly well even with that plastic wing nut. I get a few false flags now and then from a lively minnow or wind but I can adjust as needed. Just takes a little finessing. But it is rare that a fish will drop it. And they're cheap. ;)
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I have personally done the side by side comparison in NY at Simon pond. Fished half the day and then switched the three with steel with the 3 tipups with 40# flouro. You get 7 type in NY. Exact same length leaders and blades and beads on, same size and color. Used medium large bait as that is the size of the hatch. The tip-ups were every other in a straight line and alternated half way thru the day. I did this 2 years in a row there but the first year I did not alternate half way thru, thought every other was a fair comparison. The results were astounding, between the 2 years it was 2 1/2 times more hits on flouro then there was on wire. Im not sure if it would have been different on titanium but this was wire. I have never had a bite off with flouro however am very aware it will happen some day. When I fish around here im Ma,NY,VT,NH, I would rather get 250% more flags and risk the bite off. I like many of you, live to ice fish so with the right set up and knowing how to fight the fish as long as it takes I am willing to take the time necessary. I watch my friends right next to me all the time get 2 flags all day while I run around all day because they insist on steel! If I am using a very large dead bait on 1 tip-up I may put steel out on that one. My biggest Pike was 42 1/2 inches on 8lb test with a $8 hook wgile fishing for bass and it was hooked deep and I still got it in with mono and no cut off!
PapaSly, nice post with a great amount of details to make people understand. Wow, and congrats on that monster pike on any rig, especially on light line like that. Fish of a lifetime ! :clap:
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Last season was the side by side test for me. In Vermont you are allowed 8 lines in the water unless your fishing the ocean between Vermont and New York where you can have 15 lines or on trout lakes where you're only able to have 4 lines. I split my lines and had 4 steel leader and 4 floro set ups with 12lb Berkly vanish test. I had double if not triple the amount of pike on the 12lb floro than I did on the steal leaders. I WILL NOT GO BACK TO STEAL LEADERS. This year I retied all of my leaders with 17lb Berkley floro in case I catch a bigger one, if I'm not getting a lot of hits i will go right back to 12lb.
Like a few people mentioned above there is no need to absolutely horse the fish in, let it run and use your hands as the drag applying just enough pressure to the line as needed. You'll know when you applied too much.... Biggest I've hooked into was 35 inch fish around 13ish pounds and it ran four to five times and I let it have as much line as it wanted, when it stopped making a run, it was my turn to play.
A lot of people are also into using big ol meaty treble hooks. Ill take a 1/0 or 2/0 circle hook all day over treble hooks. 9 out of 10 times you'll get a prefect hook set right in the corner of the mouth and wont gut hook them. No need to worry about sticking your hands into their mouth or gills and getting diced open.
If you're into catch and release like I am, all you have to do is take the couple extra minutes to make sure the fish is strong enough to swim off on its own. Don't just shoot it down the hole like a missile, make sure it has a nice good hard kick to it and let it swim down by itself.
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Gonna stick with steel. One, I really don't go out to target them. It's an extra line in the water in the hopes of hooking one while jigging for gills. Two, if I do hook into one I don't wanna mess around and finesse the thing. Just give a yank and pull it through the hole. Would my bite rate go up if I went with fluoro or something else? Maybe...probably. But a couple of pike a year is good enough for me. Fair amount of meat on one of those critters.
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Idk how i feel about wire now.in the last 2 years ive tried it just haven’t caught much.hate to say it esox xtm but im going back to 25lb mono and see if my catch rates go back up.i like eating pike..fried or pickled.i was catching 10 a year but im down to 1 in 2 years.maybe i ate them all.i only keep them 26 to 30” mostly,all the rest go back.
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Idk how i feel about wire now.in the last 2 years ive tried it just haven’t caught much.hate to say it esox xtm but im going back to 25lb mono and see if my catch rates go back up.i like eating pike..fried or pickled.i was catching 10 a year but im down to 1 in 2 years.maybe i ate them all.i only keep them 26 to 30” mostly,all the rest go back.
Give fluorocarbon a try... you wont be disappointed.
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You guys using 17 or 20# flouro are pushing your luck. Only a matter of time before u break off on a big fish. I use 60#+ flouro.
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Give fluorocarbon a try... you wont be disappointed.
ive used it before.i like the stretch of mono,its a little more forgiving if i find myself horsing the fish in.
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You guys using 17 or 20# flouro are pushing your luck. Only a matter of time before u break off on a big fish. I use 60#+ flouro.
id use 7 strand wire again before i use big 60# flouro.i can count on my 1 hand how many fish have broke me off in 30 years of fishing for pike using 20 or 25lb mono.think 3 have.i have caught alot of big pike.i just dont get as many flags using wire or huge pound test line or i would use it.rather get flags and maybe have a breakoff then drown shiners all day.
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You guys using 17 or 20# flouro are pushing your luck. Only a matter of time before u break off on a big fish. I use 60#+ flouro.
This. I've had 40lb cut through like butter!
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id use 7 strand wire again before i use big 60# flouro.i can count on my 1 hand how many fish have broke me off in 30 years of fishing for pike using 20 or 25lb mono.think 3 have.i have caught alot of big pike.i just dont get as many flags using wire or huge pound test line or i would use it.rather get flags and maybe have a breakoff then drown shiners all day.
Mono is absolute garbage for leader material.
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Mono is absolute garbage for leader material.
well i use it for every species that swim here in mi.from monster flatheads,sturgeon and king salmon.everyone has their own opinion but i think flouro is coily stiff crap.i will add overpriced too.lol plain old berkley big game gets it done..
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well i use it for every species that swim here in mi.from monster flatheads,sturgeon and king salmon.everyone has their own opinion but i think flouro is coily stiff crap.i will add overpriced too.lol plain old berkley big game gets it done..
To each their own. Mono is not very abrasion resistant. Flouro is.
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To each their own. Mono is not very abrasion resistant. Flouro is.
But there is no plastic out there...as far as leaders...that can match steel. Period. Will it get you as many hits? Debatable. But you won't lose the ones that do because of cutoffs.
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But there is no plastic out there...as far as leaders...that can match steel. Period. Will it get you as many hits? Debatable. But you won't lose the ones that do because of cutoffs.
I agree. Out of all the plastics flouro is best IMO.
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Each material has it's place. I use 80 mono shock leaders on my carp rods when fishing zebra mussel covered rocks of the St Lawrence river. typically 30 to 50 feet long, no way I'd be able to distance cast flouro of that length, not to mention afford it.
However, there is a good reason most musky guides switched to fluoro from wire long ago.
What I'd say is most important, is to hand tie you leaders directly to avoid chances of store both leaders with snaps popping open, no matter what they may claim the breaking strength is. Haywire twists for steel line, clinch or single uni for leader type fluoro.
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I guess we will see how the season goes this year. All I know is I'm using florocarbon and no ones going to change my mind.
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I guess we will see how the season goes this year. All I know is I'm using florocarbon and no ones going to change my mind.
Same here.
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well i use it for every species that swim here in mi.from monster flatheads,sturgeon and king salmon.everyone has their own opinion but i think flouro is coily stiff crap.i will add overpriced too.lol plain old berkley big game gets it done..
I use 40# power pro, it works just fine just don't horse them in let them run about 3 times an they tire out very quickly. I also use a gaff to lift out of hole, going to eat it anyways. If it's to small I don't use gaff. You will get more action on power pro than you will with floro. the same diameter it's just more limp and the bait swims more freely. Also use #10 treble hooks in red. I have fought and cought every kind of game fish with this set up for many years. Use what ever you think works for your set and let the bite tell you what works. Good luck on what you figure out and play the fish and don't horse them.
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See watcha did here Max? Predictable as the sunrise... :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
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I use 40# power pro, it works just fine just don't horse them in let them run about 3 times an they tire out very quickly. I also use a gaff to lift out of hole, going to eat it anyways. If it's to small I don't use gaff. You will get more action on power pro than you will with floro. the same diameter it's just more limp and the bait swims more freely. Also use #10 treble hooks in red. I have fought and cought every kind of game fish with this set up for many years. Use what ever you think works for your set and let the bite tell you what works. Good luck on what you figure out and play the fish and don't horse them.
Power pro as a leader? Are u kidding me? Braid is the absolute worst kind of line you could use for a leader. Not abrasion resistant at all. Some of u guys are leaving me scratching my head....
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Power pro as a leader? Are u kidding me? Braid is the absolute worst kind of line you could use for a leader. Not abrasion resistant at all. Some of u guys are leaving me scratching my head....
agreed
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Braid does suck for leader.frays real bad on rocks/structure or by esox teeth.
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There's a few that post here that argue braid makes a great leader. I use steel, sometimes as low as 10 pound test. 49 stand steel is nearly as limp as braid and pretty darn thin. Apparently ND pike are blind, using plastic hasn't really crossed my mind
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I've had a ~24" pike cut through 130 lb flouro on an open water live bait rig... 29 lb afw is where it's at hands down.
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as long as you dont mind getting 1/3 as many flags
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as long as you dont mind getting 1/3 as many flags
I'm not convinced Papa. Let's say you're out fishing me 3 to 1. Let's change holes and bait and see what happens. Bet you won't be outfishing me then. Lot depends on location. Even a difference of 20'. and the bait you use: species, size and how cared for.
Way too many variables to simplify it down to leader material. Not discounting your experiences. That's, what we all base our opinions on, just sayin'.
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I'm not convinced Papa. Let's say you're out fishing me 3 to 1. Let's change holes and bait and see what happens. Bet you won't be outfishing me then. Lot depends on location. Even a difference of 20'. and the bait you use: species, size and how cared for.
Way too many variables to simplify it down to leader material. Not picking, just sayin'.
On my end, I've run even test with even bait for a couple seasons. Depending on the zone, we can fish either 5 or 10 lines per license.
As we are not permitted the use of live bait here, I fish with frozen 6-8 inch mackerels. Lines in the test period were staggered.
I also tested using smaller smelts as bait, conclusion was the same. Also, frozen mackerels did better than smelt on days where I tested against each other. Capelins sucked.
Those are the only 3 species of grocery store bought baitfish we can legally use. Local bait shops don't sell too many big minnows any more, and they are way more expensive, not to mention harder to find. Guessing it isn't really worth their while to trap and freeze them in bulk.
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I'm not convinced Papa. Let's say you're out fishing me 3 to 1. Let's change holes and bait and see what happens. Bet you won't be outfishing me then. Lot depends on location. Even a difference of 20'. and the bait you use: species, size and how cared for.
Way too many variables to simplify it down to leader material. Not discounting your experiences. That's, what we all base our opinions on, just sayin'.
I respect your opinion as much as much as anyone here, you were the one that told me how to set up the experiment a few years ago. Thats why all the tip were set up exactly the same with the same size bait at the same depth off the bottom. Tips were rotated every 1/2 hour to insure fair coverage through out the day over an 8 hour period. I agree that a lot depends on location which is why I rotated tips every 1/2 hour from location to location as you had suggested.If we can make every other part of the equation as equal as possible, then the leaders are the main difference. Every tip, placed the same off the bottom, spending the same amount of time in each hole location, with the same bling on each leader, same size bait, is about all I can do I think. Do you have any more suggestions for this year???
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You've done a pretty good job of trying to cover the bases Papa. You certainly put a lot more effort into it than most folks would :thumbsup: :clap:.
Still, to try to isolate a significance that has multiple variables/factors is very difficult. Again, I don't intend to discredit or belittle efforts spent. I spent my last 20 years at work gathering and analyzing process data, creating performance forecasts and using some pretty high-powered software to design and analyze multifactorial experiments so I tend to look at these things a bit differently than most folks. One of the experiments we ran took the best part of three shifts over as many days. The thing was a bust as one of the factors that we only casually considered but included had so much more significance that the ones we really wanted to look at it totally obscured any meaningful analysis of those.
So what else is there? Stuff you can't control but still have to account for:
Time of day
Solunar windows
Changes in barometric pressure
Changes in light intensity
Noise on the ice or lack of it
Noise from nearby landbased stuff (No I'm not kidding. We got one lake here that when a train goes by four blocks away we always, well almost always, get a flag and it is a fish)
There's a half a dozen possible unaccounted for influences in your data set. Please don't take any of this personally. I think your engagement and efforts are admirable. I've got some things I need to do experiment-wise also but I've gotta finish getting settled up here.
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Power pro as a leader? Are u kidding me? Braid is the absolute worst kind of line you could use for a leader. Not abrasion resistant at all. Some of u guys are leaving me scratching my head....
I bet if we fished side by side I would land more fish than you and I might take more time to land the fish. I used to use 20 lbs big game mono but I found that the braid is much more limp for live bait witch is what I use in my home lakes. Now if I was using dead bait I would use wire and for open water also fishing for pike because the pike get airborne and shake their heads alot. Under the ice they react differently, i know you know this but just let the line loose more in your fingers when they shake their heads and run, it's not a race to see how fast you land the fish. Use what ever works for your lake that you fish . Tip uup!!!!!
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I bet if we fished side by side I would land more fish than you and I might take more time to land the fish. I used to use 20 lbs big game mono but I found that the braid is much more limp for live bait witch is what I use in my home lakes. Now if I was using dead bait I would use wire and for open water also fishing for pike because the pike get airborne and shake their heads alot. Under the ice they react differently, i know you know this but just let the line loose more in your fingers when they shake their heads and run, it's not a race to see how fast you land the fish. Use what ever works for your lake that you fish . Tip uup!!!!!
If that’s what u want to use for a leader then by all means use it but you’re rolling the dice every time u hook into a fish. Maybe the one time u break off will be on a 30 pounder? I don’t horse my fish in either.
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I have been rolling 7s for a long time then. I should be in Vegas we don't have 30# pike in Wisconsin maybe 6-12lbs . I don't think you catch 30# pike but it's nice to dream of on that size. Maine st record is 31.2. You must be a pro fisherman to lose a 30# fish all the time wow
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I have been rolling 7s for a long time then. I should be in Vegas we don't have 30# pike in Wisconsin maybe 6-12lbs . I don't think you catch 30# pike but it's nice to dream of on that size. Maine st record is 31.2. You must be a pro fisherman to lose a 30# fish all the time wow
Do what u will man. It’s a free country. 6-12# pike in Wisconsin? That’s it? I have never caught a 30# pike. Dunno why u think I did? My biggest is 24# with multiple in the 15-20# range. We have lots of big pike here in Maine. Anything less than 15# is considered small.
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Finnt, you need to take a trip up to GB/Door County late season. You CAN crack a 30# (maybe) there plus average size is much larger. Biggest pike I ever had on in WI was at Fox Lake. Hadn't had a flag all day and finally popped one on a smelt. Took three nice runs from the hole so I got a good look, Easily 42 - 44" which would have put her in the 20 - 22# range. Fourth time past the hole I was sure she was gonna come. She just rolled on her side, opened her mouth right under the hole and everything just lifted out. Except the fish. Never got a hook. She'd crushed it so hard I never caught any meat with a point. Had that happen with muskies on rubber (a lot) and wood jerkbaits but never with a Q/S rig and deads. Can't win 'em all...
Too much pressure in WI to have a consistent crack at 40" fish. Few places like Madison (min size 40"), Big Cedar and a couple others. Then a coupla hands full of 32" minimum size but after that it's pretty much catch and keep most anything of legal length is kept. It really is the pressure here that keeps our pike from reaching their potential.
FWIW a 30# pike will be almost 50". Pretty few and far in between anywhere. My open water fishin' partner took a guided trip to AK one August. Way up the river, lived on a houseboat for a week, caught dozens of 40"s but only one 50" caught during that week. he nailed a 50.25" and he was so proud. Even there 50's are not all that common.
I will not take nbourque's comment as he catches 50s all the time rather, when you have the fish of a lifetime on the other end, that you do not want to be seriously compromised. And I happily subscribe to that!
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Finnt, you need to take a trip up to GB/Door County late season. You CAN crack a 30# (maybe) there plus average size is much larger. Biggest pike I ever had on in WI was at Fox Lake. Hadn't had a flag all day and finally popped one on a smelt. Took three nice runs from the hole so I got a good look, Easily 42 - 44" which would have put her in the 20 - 22# range. Fourth time past the hole I was sure she was gonna come. She just rolled on her side, opened her mouth right under the hole and everything just lifted out. Except the fish. Never got a hook. She'd crushed it so hard I never caught any meat with a point. Had that happen with muskies on rubber (a lot) and wood jerkbaits but never with a Q/S rig and deads. Can't win 'em all...
Too much pressure in WI to have a consistent crack at 40" fish. Few places like Madison (min size 40"), Big Cedar and a couple others. Then a coupla hands full of 32" minimum size but after that it's pretty much catch and keep most anything of legal length is kept. It really is the pressure here that keeps our pike from reaching their potential.
FWIW a 30# pike will be almost 50". Pretty few and far in between anywhere. My open water fishin' partner took a guided trip to AK one August. Way up the river, lived on a houseboat for a week, caught dozens of 40"s but only one 50" caught during that week. he nailed a 50.25" and he was so proud. Even there 50's are not all that common.
I will not take nbourke's comment as he catches 50s all the time rather, when you have the fish of a lifetime on the other end, that you do not want to be seriously compromised. And I happily subscribe to that!
Exactly what I’m saying esox. Thank u.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/N5vHcsf7/125853712-2959394161013764-856997558745239092-n.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N5vHcsf7)
:whistle:
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??? ??? Important to keep in mind!! Pike don't have blade like teeth. They have long very pointy teeth. Result of story I did a decade ago. Lot of pike heads and teeth. Obvious why the super pointed feet of small pike might afraid line well.
Steel works but I think you will attract more pike with light abrasion proof line. I'm also of the opinion that active live shiners work better than any dead bait. Maybe at Ice out when bottom is littered with dead bait fish?
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??? ??? Important to keep in mind!! Pike don't have blade like teeth. They have long very pointy teeth. Result of story I did a decade ago. Lot of pike heads and teeth. Obvious why the super pointed feet of small pike might afraid line well.
Steel works but I think you will attract more pike with light abrasion proof line. I'm also of the opinion that active live shiners work better than any dead bait. Maybe at Ice out when bottom is littered with dead bait fish?
Sorry Dick, fact is they ARE sharp on the sides as well as the points. Sharp as a razor. If you've ever been chewed on by a pike or musky it's easy to see they are literally cuts as opposed to punctures. Ever look at a big live bait come back from a pike you've missed? Slashed or shredded are very descriptive terms. Cut with razor sharp teeth as opposed to punctured with an ice pick. Walleyes have teeth like that but pike's are knife-like.
Or perhaps this is a confusion of terms where pike for Mr. Baker ARE walleyes and northern(pike) are known by another name (jacks?). In that case you WOULD be correct but my understand was this conversation was regarding northerns and not walleyes. If that's the case please accept my apologies.
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From what I remember reading a long time ago you dont need a leader its how you play them
Because you could land them on 20lb or they could easily cut through 150lb fluorocarbon
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From what I remember reading a long time ago you dont need a leader its how you play them
Because you could land them on 20lb or they could easily cut through 150lb fluorocarbon
There are several things that matter when fishing pike. The first thing is where the hook is, if the fish swallows the hook, the leader will be running thru their teeth vs hooked in the lip or roof of the mouth where the leader probubly wont be affected. You have to have some kind of leader, you cant just tie it to the dacron backer!!! The difference in leader in some peoples opinion is line shyness from the pike, they are very lazy, warm blooded fish. Some of us believe that the more visable the line is the less flags you will get. Others believe you could use rope with a hook and it wouldnt matter. A lot of your cut offs come from when the pike turn or trying to turn the head up the hole and at that point leaders really matter.
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:tipup: :P. Pike teeth? Sorry, Your correcting the wrong person. Fishing writer for many decades. Pike research was done with help of many fish experts. I have personally she'd blood to picketed ,pike , walleye and even baracuda. Now Cuba have cutting edge teeth!!
All of my research showed that Pike have "needle pointed teeth"
None show that they have the proverbial "razor sharp" sides.
I reiterate that pike teeth can be needle sharp BUT razor edged.
One abraids and the other slices like a razor. I'm not saying that you weren't sliced by needle sharp pike. I am saying that pike teeth don't have " razor sharp" sides. Think what you want?
Dick
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There are several things that matter when fishing pike. The first thing is where the hook is, if the fish swallows the hook, the leader will be running thru their teeth vs hooked in the lip or roof of the mouth where the leader probubly wont be affected. You have to have some kind of leader, you cant just tie it to the dacron backer!!! The difference in leader in some peoples opinion is line shyness from the pike, they are very lazy, warm blooded fish. Some of us believe that the more visable the line is the less flags you will get. Others believe you could use rope with a hook and it wouldnt matter. A lot of your cut offs come from when the pike turn or trying to turn the head up the hole and at that point leaders really matter.
Pike are not always lazy. At times they can come in and take off like a rocket. I used to do a lot of spearing for them. Most of the time they would just saunter on up to the decoy for a look...which usually didn't end well for them ;). But I have had them shoot in from out of nowhere, with no warning from the decoy, grab it and go. The line I was using on the decoy was some sort of blue and white "twine". Think it was some sort of catfish line. But they never shied away from it.
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:tipup: :P. Pike teeth? Sorry, Your correcting the wrong person. Fishing writer for many decades. Pike research was done with help of many fish experts. I have personally she'd blood to picketed ,pike , walleye and even baracuda. Now Cuba have cutting edge teeth!!
All of my research showed that Pike have "needle pointed teeth"
None show that they have the proverbial "razor sharp" sides.
I reiterate that pike teeth can be needle sharp BUT razor edged.
One abraids and the other slices like a razor. I'm not saying that you weren't sliced by needle sharp pike. I am saying that pike teeth don't have " razor sharp" sides. Think what you want?
Dick
Ok. "Sfunny though, all my reading, research and experience is exactly the opposite. Actually this is the first time I've heard anyone say this. Been around the block a few times myself. We can agree to disagree.
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Exactly what I’m saying esox. Thank u.
You may lose that fish of a lifetime with flouro but there is a good chance you would never have even had it hit with steel, JMHO
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:tipup: :P. Pike teeth? Sorry, Your correcting the wrong person. Fishing writer for many decades. Pike research was done with help of many fish experts. I have personally she'd blood to picketed ,pike , walleye and even baracuda. Now Cuba have cutting edge teeth!!
All of my research showed that Pike have "needle pointed teeth"
None show that they have the proverbial "razor sharp" sides.
I reiterate that pike teeth can be needle sharp BUT razor edged.
One abraids and the other slices like a razor. I'm not saying that you weren't sliced by needle sharp pike. I am saying that pike teeth don't have " razor sharp" sides. Think what you want?
Dick
"Pike have rather large, fang-like teeth, both along the upper and lower jawline. In the frontal area, the teeth are smaller than the ones on the side, but they are more numerous. They are usually also somewhat angled inward." Fang like, not sharp on the sides.
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You may lose that fish of a lifetime with flouro but there is a good chance you would never have even had it hit with steel, JMHO
I agree
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You may lose that fish of a lifetime with flouro but there is a good chance you would never have even had it hit with steel, JMHO
I'd feel a little different about it. I'd rather have that fish of a lifetime swim by my steel leader, than to lose it on inferior equipment. The old saying goes "You can't miss what you never had". But if I had one on...knew it was a good one...and lost it. :%$#!:
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I'd feel a little different about it. I'd rather have that fish of a lifetime swim by my steel leader, than to lose it on inferior equipment. The old saying goes "You can't miss what you never had". But if I had one on...knew it was a good one...and lost it. :%$#!:
To add to that, I'd rather not have a trophy fish swimming around with hooks in it because of an inadequate leader
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To add to that, I'd rather not have a trophy fish swimming around with hooks in it because of an inadequate leader
Thats why we all do our own thing and still have fun. I have pulled up the line after a break off 2x with large dead bait and never had a break off yet with 40# flouro, but know it will come some day for sure just like 7 strand did.
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Power pro as a leader? Are u kidding me? Braid is the absolute worst kind of line you could use for a leader. Not abrasion resistant at all. Some of u guys are leaving me scratching my head....
I agree and found that out the hardware last weekend lost a lot of fish from being cut off on power pro! Changed to seaguar ice X for salmon and trout and now reading up on the best florocarbon for pick,pickeral and/or bass.
smitty :tipup: