IceShanty.com's Ice Fishing Community
IceShanty Main => General Ice Fishing Chit Chat => Topic started by: bwjay on Nov 06, 2020, 10:10 AM
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Despite the insane price for an ice rod, I had a small discount at ALF and decided to get the 331XF. I wanted to see if there was anything to differentiate these rods from other premium ice rods. I sure hope so because at $200, they should have mindblowing cork, guides, and actions, with no aesthetic defects in any unit shipped to a customer.
I am sorry to report that the 331XF I received today has something like excess epoxy stuck to the blank near the IMX-PRO logo. I thought it looked like sticker residue (no sticker there though) and I tried to rub it off with my thumb, which didn't work. I also can't scratch it off with my fingernail, and I won't be using anything harder to try scratching it off. The blank should not have any junk left on it and this just screams laziness to me. I wouldn't be surprised to see this on a $50 rod, but $200? Unacceptable.
The cork is alright. It's pretty uniform and smooth, but has some dark splotches and whatnot (look like water stains) that I've seen in my $100 open water rods. Again, for a $200 ice rod, I feel like it should be amazing.
I will be contacting ALF to return this rod because I cannot be satisfied at this price point. Realistically I knew it's not made of magic and there's only so much you can do to make a rod worth this price tag, but Loomis has failed to do so. My TUCR rods (custom and off the shelf) are higher quality than this, and cost a little more than half the price.
Anyone else get one of these new rods yet? Would like to hear your thoughts.
(https://i.postimg.cc/gL9QDzLT/imxpro-junk-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gL9QDzLT)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Mfy43CyK/imxpro-junk-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mfy43CyK)
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yeah i held one at dicks and giggled. There is no way in hell people are going to pay $200 for that.
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yeah i held one at dicks and giggled. There is no way in hell people are going to pay $200 for that.
Sure as heck not me. My older $60 St Croix's are my spendiest and work just fine for me. But it's whatever works for ya. :)
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I got two of them and they are perfect, my IMX rods are built as good as TUCR and that's a good thing.
I would send it back for a exchange or a refund if you don't like the rod.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50482008103_e35741358d.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50482007908_d968b6cd5d.jpg)
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Sorry to hear the rod quality wasn't there bwjay. Hope you can get a refund/exchange. The positive part for me is that now I'm not tempted to buy one. I average one wrecked rod every couple weekends, so a $200 ice rod would likely have a broken tip in one trip. Yeah, I'm rough on rods but that would really bum me.
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I own my own firm. Nobody calls to tell me we do a great job but they are always quick to complain. See how they respond. Sh_t happens. Give them a chance to make things right.
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I own my own firm. Nobody calls to tell me we do a great job but they are always quick to complain. See how they respond. Sh_t happens. Give them a chance to make things right.
ALF was quick to respond and very understanding and helpful. They agreed it looked like a defect and were willing to swap it out without question. The problem is Loomis. I've heard about quality issues on all of their rods and ESPECIALLY with their NRX. I was hoping I wouldn't have to deal with that on an ice rod, like maybe it would be a different shop that makes them.
After seeing the rod and its action in person, I'm just not interested anymore at this price point, even if the construction was flawless. It is a nice rod for sure but not nice enough to compete with other offerings that cost half as much (or a bit more).
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ALF was quick to respond and very understanding and helpful. They agreed it looked like a defect and were willing to swap it out without question. The problem is Loomis. I've heard about quality issues on all of their rods and ESPECIALLY with their NRX. I was hoping I wouldn't have to deal with that on an ice rod, like maybe it would be a different shop that makes them.
After seeing the rod and its action in person, I'm just not interested anymore at this price point, even if the construction was flawless. It is a nice rod for sure but not nice enough to compete with other offerings that cost half as much (or a bit more).
I heard of the NRX problems a bit when they first came out, I have 5 NRX rods and they are all good, maybe I'm just lucky :)
I'm also the opposite, I love the action of the 331XF, its tubular carbon IMX so I would think it will be a very sensitive rod, I like the IMX ice rods a lot more
then the St Croix CCI line of rods.
But I do understand.
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I agree that $200 is a lot of money for an ice rod, but it's an ice rod, not a sculpture. I would overlook minor cosmetic flaws that have nothing to do with performance or reliability..... My priority would be how the rod performs to justify this price. If you feel that strongly about aesthetics these "flaws" will always bother you, so yes, send the rod back.
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I agree that $200 is a lot of money for an ice rod, but it's an ice rod, not a sculpture. I would overlook minor cosmetic flaws that have nothing to do with performance or reliability..... My priority would be how the rod performs to justify this price. If you feel that strongly about aesthetics these "flaws" will always bother you, so yes, send the rod back.
When competitors are offering rods that likely perform the same, for 50-65% of the price, that extra money is for premium polish. It essentially is priced like a work of art, for what it is.
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200 for an ice rod is insane for something that is not custom built with your choice of colors, blank, handle, etc' etc. no thanks
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200 for an ice rod is insane for something that is not custom built with your choice of colors, blank, handle, etc' etc. no thanks
It is a bit expensive, but so is boots, shelters, bibs and lets not forget panoptix...
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What I really want to see is how the rod will feel and perform with a full reel seat on.
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Yup, got the same rod with the same glue stick to the blank. I thought the same damn thing, not happening on a $200 rod. I emailed loomis two days ago with no response. I'll see what they say. It sure is a nice rod though.
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Agree, for 200 bones that rod should be pristine.
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$200 for an ice rod - lol that’s funny
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200 for an ice rod is insane for something that is not custom built with your choice of colors, blank, handle, etc' etc. no thanks
And I barely coughed up enough for a custom,! But if there is a market for a high priced production ice rod, they will be produced and people will buy it just to say they have the best that is made.
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And I barely coughed up enough for a custom,! But if there is a market for a high priced production ice rod, they will be produced and people will buy it just to say they have the best that is made.
Seems to be a bit of that going on this year. I’m more impressed by guys catching fish on cheaper rigs! 😜
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I own several custom rods in the 100 buck range from Tucr , Dh and Jt . What makes this one @200 bucks feature wise? I’m not poo pooing the rod , I’m just curious of the advantages of a GL rod at a 200 bucks price point .
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I own several custom rods in the 100 buck range from Tucr , Dh and Jt . What makes this one @200 bucks feature wise? I’m not poo pooing the rod , I’m just curious of the advantages of a GL rod at a 200 bucks price point .
For the 7 fast action models, the blank is tubular and that is a big upgrade over the others mentioned. For the 5 extra fast there's no real difference than the others that I'm aware of.
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This tread just went to the sentiment of waiting for ice. ;D
Someone will use a nickel cost hook and the next guy will use the $4 cost hook and both will still hook a fish...but we all know there's a performance merit that differentiates between the two.
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For the 7 fast action models, the blank is tubular and that is a big upgrade over the others mentioned. For the 5 extra fast there's no real difference than the others that I'm aware of.
tubular blanks are not an upgrade...
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Curious why they put like a 9in handle on $200 rod? Guess they want to be different. Fair enough. Just don't see that very often and maybe I'm missing the advantage of that?
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Curious why they put like a 9in handle on $200 rod? Guess they want to be different. Fair enough. Just don't see that very often and maybe I'm missing the advantage of that?
The way I see it is that a 9 inch handle fulfills the traditional full handle length.
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tubular blanks are not an upgrade...
The open water rod market - where fishing companies actually manufacture blanks - sure seems to disagree with that sentiment.
And now we have three of the best blank manufacturers (Croix, Loomis, and NFC) FINALLY offering tubular ice rod blanks.
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The other differences is the blank, IMX is a higher end graphite then most use.
The handle length on my 331xf is 7 inches.
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The open water rod market - where fishing companies actually manufacture blanks - sure seems to disagree with that sentiment.
And now we have three of the best blank manufacturers (Croix, Loomis, and NFC) FINALLY offering tubular ice rod blanks.
When solid glass and carbon blanks became available for ice rod builders, they didn't just move toward solid blanks they RAN!!!!!! The reason being that solid blanks offer comparable or better performance, and are FAR more durable than tubular blanks for ice fishing.
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I agree with Defish. I run a variety of rods from Croix to Abu. I haven’t really been interested in G Loomis for ice stuff as they are predominately a fly guys builder. Again with Defish said, tubular blank for ice fishing just don’t pan out. 13 fishing came out with That pickle rod with the ghost inline. I looked at this in the store the other day and noticed the rods themselves are round at the base and taper to a flat blank on the end. I played with it for a moment and seems interesting. I would probably be more interested in throwing cash this direction than a Loomis rod currently
(https://i.postimg.cc/CB8KVjKz/03-E6-A55-F-A978-4-DE9-B002-B4-F3183-AA750.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CB8KVjKz)
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Felt a 351F at the Eden Prairie Scheels today and I was extremely unimpressed. Loved the blank, but aside from it the epoxy work was sloppy, thread tag ends were cut poorly and guide wraps had thread gaps galore. Looked more like a $50 rod to me. Light, but thats to be expected from a brittle tubular blank. I think it's a better idea to invest in local rod builders. Much more craftsmanship and attention to detail will be seen!
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Man, you guys are rough LOL.
I went over mine with a magnifying glass and my wraps are perfect, no spaces, no thread tag ends, excellent epoxy and perfectly lined guides.
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If we go down on the history of solid carbon blanks...I heard that when St Croix introduced it...it was a tough sell. They stuck with it and now it's mainstream...solid carbon rods is the standard.
The thing about tubular rods is...is it is better in so many ways for a carbon scrim...
I often wonder why can't fishing rods be reproduce with the strength and lightness of an arrow shaft. Yeah cuz it needs to flex, but I don't need it to flex at around the butt. If my ice rod can have that 60/40 or even that 70/30 rate of deflection I would be ecstatic. Honestly I always wanted to glue a rod tip to an arrow shaft and go ice fishing with it. And there is the cost of production with that kind of concept cuz it's not going to be just one solid carbon material.
I suspect that St Croix cut the same solid carbon ice rod blank at various points to get the listed action out the rod. I flex them and align different rod power and whoaaahh...they match so very closely. Now if they rolled it out of a tubular blank, it would be too improbable to cut the same blank at various points to achieve various rod power rating.
Anyways back to the G Loomis ice rods. Of all the rods I've ever hand flex in store. I will say that these were the first ice rods that actually impressed me. Of all the rods that came with a reel seat, well that goes to St Croix rods for having an overall best feeling in my hands. I was honestly impressed at how light and crisp the St Croix Apex Predator rod felt in comparison to most other rods of the retail shelf. If they can accomplish that in their heaviest of rod models, why can't they copy that engineering feat down to their lighter power rods? Maybe it's just a tough sell...the demand is just not there...and enough rambling from me. I'm still waiting for that BFS system that been popularized to convert over for ice fishing..
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Tubular blanks hit a point of diminishing rewards - to make a blank light enough in power and be tubular, the walls need to be thin and thin walls are brittle. If you have a 30' tubular blank you only have so much "room" for taper - you can get more taper out of a solid blank and the solid blank will be more durable. Solid blanks do not have to factor in constraints for wall thickness or overall diameter. Open water rods have at least 5' to create taper and have more power then an ice blank so they can be made durable. You can taper down a tubular blank to a solid tip however....most of these are medium to heavy power blanks
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Tubular blanks hit a point of diminishing rewards - to make a blank light enough in power and be tubular, the walls need to be thin and thin walls are brittle. If you have a 30' tubular blank you only have so much "room" for taper - you can get more taper out of a solid blank and the solid blank will be more durable. Solid blanks do not have to factor in constraints for wall thickness or overall diameter. Open water rods have at least 5' to create taper and have more power then an ice blank so they can be made durable. You can taper down a tubular blank to a solid tip however....most of these are medium to heavy power blanks
Great explanation of the basic issues in play.
Thank you
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tubular blanks are not an upgrade...
not even in the slightest when it comes to the ice fishing. there is no advantage to tubular on a < 36" rod vs a solid blank. and solid blanks have a ton of advantages.
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The part where the benefits of a tubular section is further down the rod blank rather than just the tip taper section. There's only so much a solid rod of one material will give and the performance merit of it, such as lighter weight, better vibration transmission. The engineering of a tubular rod with different carbon material like say 24t to 36t in the overall construction of the rod. There is no, one is totally superior to the other. It's just different application at different sections along the entire rod. Part of the reason why ice rods are just so short. Yet we are seeing longer ice rods coming into the market. They're growing longer than 36 inches and going above 48 inches.
And here is where the engineering difference that we must clarify. When we refer to a solid blank, I assume it is limited to only the linear graphite/carbon fibers that comes as a solid rod. Whereas the tubular blank, I assume will be a rolled material where the graphite/carbon fibers are bonded in a spiral/helical pattern. It may have a solid core. It may have a cross wrap. It may have a woven carbon cloth. At this point in time, perhaps the tubular ice rods were of the cheap single material variety whereas it was fragile. Probably no different than your cheap tubular graphite rods that are your sales tag giveaways. However the sentiment of that does not apply to a properly engineered blank that is rolled with performance merits without the brittleness associated with the linear material.
So what if St Croix and/or G. Loomis have decided to engineer and created short rod blanks of tubular design into ice rods. Do we just dismiss it as cheap tubular rods that are prone to brittleness? Probably have to lump in the Fenwick Techna tubular ice rods. They are so uptight about it, that they clearly marketed them as solid carbon rods just because the tip taper sections are solid. Perhaps it's just the bottom part is hollowed out, because it's not solid all the way through.
...and the only tubular rods I have for ice fishing are still my Ugly Sticks but they don't count since they're a composite of graphite and glass material. Maybe I'm just wishing that something tubular comes down. ;D As in price.
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I don't think the price of tubular ice blanks will ever come down due to how much they cost to produce. Grinding a solid rod will always be cheaper than wraping/forming over a mandrel
The cheapest tubular blanks out there right now are crb and sportsmans direct whipping stick - both have solid tips
https://www.mudhole.com/Deluxe-Tubular-Graphite-Ice-Rod-Blank - these are not ml as described, I've profiled all of them and couldn't think of a situation in which I would choose any of them for a specific ice application
https://sportsmensdirect.com/shop/whipping-rods/ the blank is not listed for sale on their site but is available if you call them direct - it would be decent for lake trout - I have also profiled this blank
Janns has a tubular panfish blank for $7
https://www.jannsnetcraft.com/graphite-ice-rod-blanks/graphite-ice-rod-blanks-panfish-42.aspx
and walleye as well
https://www.jannsnetcraft.com/graphite-ice-rod-blanks/graphite-ice-rod-blanks-walleye-42.aspx
I have not profiled any of the Janns blanks as they do not respond to my inquiries to do so - given the tip diameters I would guess that these might be tubular throughout
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Not sure how profiling is relevant with tubular blanks. The beauty of the new tubular blanks (specifically the Loomis and Croix) is that there are more variables at play than simply the profile or taper that defines the power and action of the blank.
And to compare the Netcraft or CRB tubular blanks to St. Croix and G. Loomis is silly.
The point of solid blanks being superior in short and light blanks is evident where Croix and Loomis are using solid blanks in the smaller blanks. But there is clearly an advantage to using tubular graphite blanks as the power and length goes up.
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not comparing, slipperybob said he wished that something comes down with tubular blanks as in price....there are cheap tubular blanks today
If you want something comparable to st crois and gloomis blanks look at the nfc tubulars
Keep in mind, as the power and length go up, the need for sensitivity and lightness goes down - is there really a point? Durability is still needed, and thats where solid blanks shine.
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If you want something comparable to st crois and gloomis blanks look at the nfc tubulars
The NFC Delta ice have intrigued me but haven't been able to find enough information on them to pull the trigger. RodGeeks offers a 42" blank and I was thinking it would be the blank used in their Custom Ice Predator rod but per email correspondence it is not.
Keep in mind, as the power and length go up, the need for sensitivity and lightness goes down - is there really a point?
As someone who has built a lot of my own rods for fishing Lake Winnipeg walleye and NW Ontario lakers, I would whole heartedly disagree. BUT that's the beauty of having options... different stroke for different folks.
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And those cheap tubular rods are often linear graphite/carbon bonded together. They aren't rolled with a carbon fiber strip and bonded. When a rod breaks, look at the breakage fibers and that will sort of clue in into how it was produced. Not that I go around breaking rods... LOL.
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The NFC Delta ice have intrigued me but haven't been able to find enough information on them to pull the trigger.
I have the Delta Ice 330-1 "ultra light" which to me it feels more like a medium action and I would never fish anything on it under 1/8 oz.
Its a powerful rod and it would make a good rod for larger fish, I would pass on it for any kind of panfishing, the Zentron is nice and very responsive
but almost makes the rod a more moderate action.
If NFC could make a true ultra light with this material then it would be amazing.
I would like to know who made up the rod ratings for these rods, because they are way off IMO.
I personally like the St Croix and Gloomis ice rods a lot over my NFC ice rod.
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NFC blanks were made by folks who mostly chase lakers in the NW - not by midwest panfishermen, thats why their ratings are a bit skewed. Last I had heard in talking to them they were working on a true UL blank. Zentron is nice - it would be great if other folks were making zentron based blanks
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Update:
Didn't get a reply from loomis, but the awesome guy over at American legacy fishing where I bought the rod told me to give it a good scrape with a softer tool. Surprisingly it all came off with no damage to the blank. I gave it a scrape with my finger nail when I first got it, but it didn't budge. Good to go.
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Just a update, love the IMX ice rods.
Sensitivity, super light and powerful.
I just ordered a 330xf, my friend just ordered a 331f, I want to see how much different it is from my 331xf.
These rods are Master Pieces IMO.
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I would give these rods a look at 1/2 the price.
https://haatfishing.com/
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I would give these rods a look at 1/2 the price.
https://haatfishing.com/
I've been looking at those for a while, the Medium light spinning is always out of stock >:(
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I have been using the 330 up until last weekend, snapped a few inches off the tip. First rod I've ever broke, believe it or not. Was bending down to pull a perch out of the hole and there the tip was, not sure what happened. But it is a really nice rod, can feel bites more than any of my other rods, but the tip is a little stiffer than some of my light glass rods for sight bites. I liked it enough to buy another while waiting for this one to get fixed.
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I have been using the 330 up until last weekend, snapped a few inches off the tip. First rod I've ever broke, believe it or not. Was bending down to pull a perch out of the hole and there the tip was, not sure what happened. But it is a really nice rod, can feel bites more than any of my other rods, but the tip is a little stiffer than some of my light glass rods for sight bites. I liked it enough to buy another while waiting for this one to get fixed.
Excellent, good to hear that the rod is awesome.
Sucks about the rod breaking, how was the warranty dealing with Gloomis? Whenever I have had to deal with Gloomis they have always
been amazing with customer service.
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i just filled out the warranty paper, and sent it in. they got it last week. ill keep you posted!
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I've been looking at those for a while, the Medium light spinning is always out of stock >:(
Thats cause I bought them up.... just kidding but I do love my Haat Rods and have 2 of the Medium Light Spinning rods. They work great in my Jaw jackers.
Oh and my new G Loomis Ice rod will be here Thursday...
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Thats cause I bought them up.... just kidding but I do love my Haat Rods and have 2 of the Medium Light Spinning rods. They work great in my Jaw jackers.
Oh and my new G Loomis Ice rod will be here Thursday...
Nice, what G Loomis did you order?
I hope mine will be here soon, I'm going fishing Thursday morning...
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331 F
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Notified yesterday that my replacement rod is in the mail. Looks like it will be here for the weekend.
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Mine will be here tomorrow ;D
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Got the 330 XF today and man that tip is thin :o
Going out tomorrow and will see how it compares to the 331 XF.
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Most of my soft water rods are IMX, and I would buy a couple ice rods today if they offered a 36” in light power. I really like my 36” Quiversticks, but I’m confident that a 360XF would immediately replace them.
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Most of my soft water rods are IMX, and I would buy a couple ice rods today if they offered a 36” in light power. I really like my 36” Quiversticks, but I’m confident that a 360XF would immediately replace them.
I would like that also.
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I own 5.....yep I’m a Loomis fan and the IMX is top notch. I have the 311xf, 331xf, 331f, 352f, and 392f....they are all very high quality and every thread, eye, epoxy, and cork is perfect. They really are a work of art. I purchased all of them at a 25% discount since a nearby store is looking to sell any remaining ice fishing products they have till next year. Basically, I bought their remaining stock after holding them in my hands. Not sure about the batch that others complain about, but i’m a happy customer. To be fair, I also own many TB and TUCR ice rods as well and they are also amazing at a cheaper price point even with the sale price I found the IMX’s at.
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I own 5.....yep I’m a Loomis fan and the IMX is top notch. I have the 311xf, 331xf, 331f, 352f, and 392f....they are all very high quality and every thread, eye, epoxy, and cork is perfect. They really are a work of art. I purchased all of them at a 25% discount since a nearby store is looking to sell any remaining ice fishing products they have till next year. Basically, I bought their remaining stock after holding them in my hands. Not sure about the batch that others complain about, but i’m a happy customer. To be fair, I also own many TB and TUCR ice rods as well and they are also amazing at a cheaper price point even with the sale price I found the IMX’s at.
And we have a winner. Damn and I thought I was bad with this high end ice fishing equipment fetish of mine.
Got my 331F in last night and it seems real nice. get my new black betty maverick mounted and spooled up and I will try it out hopefully this weekend... woooohaaaaa!
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Any known sales on these? Still looking for a 351f, but don’t see the need to pay full price. Thinking about a couple ultra light models too if others are happy with them.
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Any known sales on these? Still looking for a 351f, but don’t see the need to pay full price. Thinking about a couple ultra light models too if others are happy with them.
Not sure of any sales (sorry) but the 330xf is the most sensative ice rod I have used.
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Any known sales on these? Still looking for a 351f, but don’t see the need to pay full price. Thinking about a couple ultra light models too if others are happy with them.
I know locally Joe's Sporting goods have their 20% off sales on the rods and reels. As usual full sized open water St Croix is excluded...blaaaah.
Perhaps Thorne Bros. Fly Angler shop may have a sale too, but they're sort of a 20 minutes drive for me.
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Thanks guys! For those on the fence, you are missing out. If you love your summer IMX rods, these are just as amazing in weight, action, and sensitivity. I love mine and have zero regrets in purchasing. Disclaimer, I paid $150 each for mine.
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Any of these left anywhere? Still looking for a few more...