Author Topic: steel vs flouro leaders  (Read 482 times)

Offline Papa Sly

  • Team IceShanty Maniac
  • **
  • Posts: 1,727
steel vs flouro leaders
« on: Mar 05, 2024, 09:20 AM »
For several years I have tried through use to determine if steel gets less flags as a result of pike being leader shy. I have always recorded and found that we got more flags with flourocarbon but always used the black wire.
This year thanks to some advise from guys on here I tried the 7 strand camo colored coated wire and that stuff is incrediable. We got as many or more flags with that wire as we did with the flouro. That stuff is indistructable while we had 3 bite offs on 50 lb flouro...big fish!
The lastr 4 days I put out 4 tipups with the black wire and never got a flag on them. The water was very stained where we were fishing but we also got bass and perch on the camo wire. Next year I will try it locally where thge water is clear and see if we still catch bass on them.
Thanks to all for the advise
A bad day of ice fishing is better than any day at work!
http://i.imgur.com/dIEANML.jpg?1

Offline snow snake

  • Team IceShanty Regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 237
Re: steel vs flouro leaders
« Reply #1 on: Mar 05, 2024, 02:56 PM »
   OK, sounds good where did you buy the 7 coated camo leaders
     will try this come spring.
   Ralph
snowsnake

Offline PikeKing23

  • Team IceShanty Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 908
  • Go Big or Go Home!
Re: steel vs flouro leaders
« Reply #2 on: Mar 05, 2024, 03:55 PM »
I made the same switch this year. I was using 60lb Seagar blue label, but the 20lb 7 strand is awesome. I also use a 20 vmc snap at the end to change out hooks. Super thin wire.

Offline Wheres Walleye

  • Team IceShanty Regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 321
Re: steel vs flouro leaders
« Reply #3 on: Mar 05, 2024, 03:58 PM »
I've had pretty good success with this too.


Offline Papa Sly

  • Team IceShanty Maniac
  • **
  • Posts: 1,727
Re: steel vs flouro leaders
« Reply #4 on: Mar 05, 2024, 04:00 PM »
local bait shop...a little cheaper on amazon but like to try and help out the locals.
A bad day of ice fishing is better than any day at work!
http://i.imgur.com/dIEANML.jpg?1

Offline thomasthepikehunter

  • Team IceShanty Maniac
  • **
  • Posts: 1,059
Re: steel vs flouro leaders
« Reply #5 on: Mar 05, 2024, 10:30 PM »
I think I did a detailed post earlier in the winter about my experiences with different steel leaders, but as you pointed out, there is a ton of variability in what you can buy. I am not the most sophisticated, I base my opinions, besides on catching fish, on what I actually see. Those thick coated, stiff, black wire leaders, Berkley being the common one I've seen, are not very good. I think the most valid arguments I hear for mono or fluoro comes from lighter lines. 25#/30#ish lines. They are kind of clear in the water. If you put them side by side with a 20#-30# good braided wire like Surflon or Cortland, then it's a valid comparison. The Mono/Fluoro lines are slightly less visible than the steel. The argument then comes in is the bite offs from the mono or fluorocarbon worth it? I've had steel fail, mostly from my own fault like a bad knot, but I have never been bitten off on steel, and I don't think it's really possible from pike. Lighter mono on the other hand, I've had regular bite offs, even at 50# I lost a good fish.

As someone who grew up using almost all steel, the times I wasn't I got bit off plenty. Ask any walleye fisherman. Over the years I jumped into first fluoro, then mono as dedicated leaders. I started lighter, moved to 40#, 50#, and finally ended at 80# before bite offs stopped. At one point the vast majority of my pike fishing was with non-steel leaders. Then as the years went by, I have moved more and more back to steel. Last weekend was a decent comparison, my friend likes the lighter fluoro leaders, I only had steel leaders down. No difference in catches, it was a good day all around. If the ice holds up, I might get one more weekend out. Currently I only have one tip up with a fluorocarbon leader, and it's probably not going to be next year.

Sorry for getting off topic. Back to the issue of visibility. When we are talking about leaders that really hold up comparatively like a 50#-80# fluoro or mono (the myth that fluoro is more clear is easily debunked, try it yourself), compare that to a 20# braided leader like Surflon 7x7 camo. It's not a monumental difference, if any. I've compared it in water, I've even seen it in underwater cameras. When lines get that thick, it doesn't matter that they are semi-transparent, you still see them. A Surflon 20# leader is super thin, I didn't measure it, but it sure looks close to a 20# or 30# Powerpro superbraid. The big problems with the heavy clear lines is just how thick the stuff is. It's hard to tie, and it wants to fight you and your bait. An 80# fluorocarbon is not a nice material to use.

One thing I have been playing with that might be worth trying Papa Sly, is an intermediate leader about 3' or 4' between my regular tip up line, and the steel leader. I've been using a 20# Big Game Mono, as this is the most elastic line I have found. The reason I've been using this for two reasons. One is visibility. I like a thick dacron, I use 50#, I'd use even heavier if my tip up spools were bigger. I do this to make it easier to grip with my fingers. The downside is white 50# dacron might as well be a glow stick it's so obvious. The short mono section hides this from fish. The second reason I've found is that elastic nature of mono acts as a shock absorber. It's not world changing, but I can feel it when fighting a fish. It feels to me like I can maintain pressure easier, where a lot of times smaller pike will just shake their heads like crazy and you can't do much about that with no elasticity. I'd be curious to see if you see a difference in catch rate. It might be worth trying an even lighter line like 12# or 15# to allow it to stretch easier, yet should hold up if you don't give KVD hooksets.

My rigs are constantly changing. The lines and leaders I use seem to change on a yearly basis. This year I've been having a lot of luck with this combo, which isn't that much different than last year except with the addition of a short mono between the dacron and steel. Woodstock 50# dacron green spot, double uni knot to 20# Berkley Big Game Mono about 3' or 4'. I tie that with a uni knot to a swivel, I usually have a weight just above the swivel. From the swivel is my various rigs. Mostly I like the Surflon 7x7 20#. I've been trying Papa Sly's deadbait rig which seems to work really good with things like frozen smelt, but I'm having trouble using it with whole or chunked tullibee, and it doesn't seem to work very good with live suckers. I think the principle is sound, I just need to find different ways to attach it to the bait than the rubber band. Most the the time I default to the good old V shaped quckstrike rig with two trebles. I like #6 trebles, especially the lighter Eagle Claw 374's. Sometimes I use beads/spinners over the hooks, sometimes I don't. I gave up on circle hooks, the super tiny advantage of them not deep hooking as often was overcome by too many missed fish. I do use regular J hooks in their place which have a higher hookup rate for me, and deep hooks are rarely a problem. With fish that actually swallow the bait, I've got gut hooked fish with both circle and J hooks, neither seems better or worse. It's been year upon year now where I have not seen a big live sucker minnow for sale. Certain places in Minnesota sell decoy suckers that work if you pay $5 per sucker, but for the most part you can't get them anymore, at least not here in South Dakota. Suckers seem to top out at maybe 6" if you cherry pick them yourself. The bait store workers usually just grab at random, and most of them are only 3" or 4" long anymore. With bait like that I find a 1/0 J hook to be about right. I tend to go a little big on J hooks, and a little small on trebles. I've also tried those goofy double hooks with one small and one big hook, and don't see a reason to use them.

One last tid bit, I've always liked coated braided steel leaders like Surflon 7x7, but due to another members recommendation I tried some uncoated braided Surflon 1x7 this year and it might be a good option as well. It comes in the same colors as coated, and it's very thin. I tried tying it with minimal success, but it can be done. There is a twisting method that works posted somewhere here, I forget what it's called. The reasons why you might choose an uncoated 1x7 like this I've found are two reasons. One, if it's available at your local store that's great. It's also cheaper than 7x7, about half the price. The second reason is the twisting type knots that work with this are similar to what you can do with a non-stranded solid wire, and this might make certain rigs easier to make. It is also stiffer than 7x7, and might offer some advantage with either jigging, and especially in open water with jerk baits to keep your hooks from fouling on the line.
-Tom

Offline pmaloney86

  • Team IceShanty Maniac
  • **
  • Posts: 1,849
Re: steel vs flouro leaders
« Reply #6 on: Mar 12, 2024, 10:33 AM »
For several years I have tried through use to determine if steel gets less flags as a result of pike being leader shy. I have always recorded and found that we got more flags with flourocarbon but always used the black wire.
This year thanks to some advise from guys on here I tried the 7 strand camo colored coated wire and that stuff is incrediable. We got as many or more flags with that wire as we did with the flouro. That stuff is indistructable while we had 3 bite offs on 50 lb flouro...big fish!
The lastr 4 days I put out 4 tipups with the black wire and never got a flag on them. The water was very stained where we were fishing but we also got bass and perch on the camo wire. Next year I will try it locally where thge water is clear and see if we still catch bass on them.
Thanks to all for the advise

Have you tried the Malin Boa titanium shock leader material?  It is extremely thin but has a high breaking strength and you can actually somewhat tie knots with it.  I've used it on the ice and when fly fishing for pike.  Its my go to if I'm not using fluoro.

https://malinco.com/fishing-wire/fishing-boa/
westernmas on the finder

Offline thomasthepikehunter

  • Team IceShanty Maniac
  • **
  • Posts: 1,059
Re: steel vs flouro leaders
« Reply #7 on: Mar 12, 2024, 05:39 PM »
Have you tried the Malin Boa titanium shock leader material?  It is extremely thin but has a high breaking strength and you can actually somewhat tie knots with it.  I've used it on the ice and when fly fishing for pike.  Its my go to if I'm not using fluoro.

https://malinco.com/fishing-wire/fishing-boa/

I'm guessing that's a lot like Knot2Kinky, which I have tried. I think it has it's place, but mostly for open water. I don't see where a solid wire would ever be an advantage over a stranded wire ice fishing.
-Tom

 



Iceshanty | MyFishFinder | MyHuntingForum
Contact | Disclaimer | Privacypolicy | Sponsor
© 1996- Iceshanty.com
All Rights Reserved.