leader for pike

[icenut_]

is there something besides a steel leader I can use on tip ups for pike? I believe pike can see the steel leader and won't bite. is there something less visible I can use that pike wont break or cut through?

[Skipper]

Flurocarbon... It's not steel but it's the next best thing. Use the hard leader type not fluro fishing line, there is a pretty big difference.

http://www.fishusa.com/product/Seaguar-Fluoro-Premier-Fluorocarbon-Leader-Material

Otherwise there is thin steel. I use this stuff quite a bit. The nylon coated stuff is nice because it doesn't kink as easily, but it looks like winch cable next to uncoated line like this.

http://www.fishusa.com/product/American-Fishing-Wire-Surfstrand-Camo-Wire

600 feet will last you a looooooooooooong time. lol

[coboy]

I use Malin BOA titanium 20 lb. .008 dia.. Seagaur Premier Fluoro is .015 in dia.. That is one thousandth more than half of the diameter of the fluoro. Largest pike caught on it, 17 lb. 8 oz.
Replace due to wear and tear after roughly six caught pike. I've seen too many pike lost on fluoro. This is all I'll use.

[northernnyice]

fluorocarbon or titanium. I am using 80lb fluoro right now. Boa No Kink is good stuff as well. Can tie knots with the stuff.

But I must add you can do just fine with steel. I caught a lot of pike on steel, a lot. And some big ones.

[esox_xtm]

Just me but don't over think this. If pike know what steel leader is and don't bite why don't they recognize what hooks are? Doesn't add up for me. That said, you basically have two choices:

1.) Opaque - steel, titanium or "superline". Only the steel and titanium are cut proof. I know guys say they do great with superline but it would be dead last on my list. Steel (uncoated) is just as thin as Ti but much cheaper, easier to work with and more flexible.

2.) Transparent - Mono or fluorocarbon. If you go this route make sure you purchase actual leader material, not line intended for spooling a reel. It is much tougher that spooling line. of the two fluoro is head and shoulders above mono for cut resistance. Notice I used the word "resistant" in place of "proof".

[Skipper]

To comment about superline...

I am 101% convinced that superlines like spiderwire, power pro, and suffix 832 are the most prone to bite offs of all lines. Using this stuff for leaders is counter productive. you are better off with 10lb mono than 50lb super braid. I actually went as far as experimenting with a large pike I took home to eat after getting severe gill and throat damage. I could not cut 20lb mono or fluro without raking it back and forth on the teeth several times. 10lb mono took 3-4 swipes. 50lb Spiderwire and 30lb power pro cut in the first rake. I wish I had taken a video of this.

[headhunter67]

For pike I use 30lb Flurocarbon leader with great success

[delawareriver]

To comment about superline...

I am 101% convinced that superlines like spiderwire, power pro, and suffix 832 are the most prone to bite offs of all lines. Using this stuff for leaders is counter productive. you are better off with 10lb mono than 50lb super braid. I actually went as far as experimenting with a large pike I took home to eat after getting severe gill and throat damage. I could not cut 20lb mono or fluro without raking it back and forth on the teeth several times. 10lb mono took 3-4 swipes. 50lb Spiderwire and 30lb power pro cut in the first rake. I wish I had taken a video of this.

not surprising, that's why it's incredibly easy to cut braid with a knife. Its the worse thing you could use for a leader.

[Open-Handed Fish Slap]

You couldn't convince me that pike care about the leader.  I've always had success with coated steel leaders, there's even a guy around here that I just found out kills it with piano wire.  After seeing many break offs with flouro and mono up to 50lbs. I just have a hard time chancing it.  I did tie up some flouro leaders this year to try and experiment but I haven't even gotten them wet yet.  I have a pack of that Knot 2 Kinky titanium and that stuff is a really neat concept, the stretch is unreal, however; It's nearly impossible to crimp it due to the lack of coating and the decrease in diameter when stretching and I just hate how ugly it ties even though it's probably very strong, something I thought you might be interested in though, if you don't like thick steel leaders.  Good luck to everyone this season!

[Skipper]

Pike can get line shy. Not like walleyes, but there is a time and place when coarse tackle will only catch smaller fish. Snot rockets don't have much common sense when it comes to eating a pound of hooks and three feet of winch cable, but the big ones that have been pressured will look at it and NOPE.

[hardh2ofish]

I use a lot of knot 2 kinky. I use #2 crimp sleeves.  But I ha e to bend the tag end and run it back through a second time.  Otherwise it slides right back out of the sleeve.

[deadsmelthead]

Reguarding steel,I think they have a memory to a degree of associating a steel leader with a bad experience like getting yanked out of the water.. Do i know it for a fact ? no.. No one 100% can say either way, we'd have to get into a pike brain to figure that one out..

What i more firmly believe in is this, lighter leaders and tackle are less taxing on baits endurance, or liveliness so to speak..Making it more visible from a distance  and more apt to try and escape or evade an incoming pike making for a more natural presentation..

For the record Ive yet to have a member of the Pike family rip through a polymer line on me, Ive caught some pretty good size fish.. Pike in my avatar I had 30lb mono on.. If you play the fish right and wear them down instead of trying to play tug of war with them lines will mysteriously stop snapping..

I really believe thats what most experience and pass it off as the fish ripped/bit through the line..

Just my opinion formed from observations fishing with others.. Whole lotta guys i see out there trying to bulldog a big fish in.... Let em run and keep the steady pressure on them..

 

[saxmatt]

My buddy got cut off before he even got to the flag while he was using 60lb floro. He got there and no line was out and the hook and bait was gone. He was using dead bait and there was no drag tension on the tipup, the fish bit through the floro in the initial strike. If they bite the leader the right way even a small fish can cut 60-80lb floro. That being said I like using 60 or 80 floro because I fish pressured lakes with clear water and I've got a lot more flags since I switched from steel. You will get cut off occasionally even with line that heavy, going lighter than 50 and your asking for trouble. I've also messed around with crimps using steel, titanium and floro and I'll never use them while ice fishing again. I've seen them fail too many times. If you crimp it down too hard you can damage the line, not enough and it will slip, and even if you crimp it just right water gets inside the crimp and when you take your tipups out at the end of the day the water inside the crimp can freeze and expand the crimp causing it I slip on a future trip.

[deadsmelthead]

My buddy got cut off before he even got to the flag while he was using 60lb floro. He got there and no line was out and the hook and bait was gone. He was using dead bait and there was no drag tension on the tipup, the fish bit through the floro in the initial strike. If they bite the leader the right way even a small fish can cut 60-80lb floro. That being said I like using 60 or 80 floro because I fish pressured lakes with clear water and I've got a lot more flags since I switched from steel. You will get cut off occasionally even with line that heavy, going lighter than 50 and your asking for trouble. I've also messed around with crimps using steel, titanium and floro and I'll never use them while ice fishing again. I've seen them fail too many times. If you crimp it down too hard you can damage the line, not enough and it will slip, and even if you crimp it just right water gets inside the crimp and when you take your tipups out at the end of the day the water inside the crimp can freeze and expand the crimp causing it I slip on a future trip.

Completely agree with the crimping..

As per your buddy, it sounds like something else went wrong to me, like accidently reverse winding the line on the tip up for a few wraps.. Ive caught myself doing it a few times.. Just seems like you would need a cut edge to cut edge pinch point to sheer through 60lb fluro hanging freely... Just my opinion..

[saxmatt]

Completely agree with the crimping..

As per your buddy, it sounds like something else went wrong to me, like accidently reverse winding the line on the tip up for a few wraps.. Ive caught myself doing it a few times.. Just seems like you would need a cut edge to cut edge pinch point to sheer through 60lb fluro hanging freely... Just my opinion..

Nope, he is very particular about his gear and knows what he's doing. He's no amateur, even writes for On The Water magazine. Definitely wasn't equipment failure. I jinxed myself by posting about how I like floro leaders btw...snapped one off on the hook set today using 80lb floro. I didn't even feel the weight of the fish.

[river_scum]

i have used 20# mono for years with no complaints. pike arent line shy. we just used to tie to the 40# dacron years ago, and still caught fish.

[northernnyice]

i have used 20# mono for years with no complaints. pike arent line shy. we just used to tie to the 40# dacron years ago, and still caught fish.

If you ran 20lb mono up here you would regret it quick fast and in a hurry..

[esox_xtm]

I'll offer some dissenting opinions on a couple of things:

1.) I used to think crimps were evil until I ran out of freshwater fishing shows and started to watch the saltwater ones. Most of these guys live and die by the crimp and they are usually catching much bigger fish than we are. Yes, Virginia, there is a right way and a wrong way to crimp. I came across some very informative material and I have changed my tune. That said, I still prefer steel and there are better ways than crimps to connect that.

2.)

As per your buddy, it sounds like something else went wrong to me, like accidentally reverse winding the line on the tip up for a few wraps.. Ive caught myself doing it a few times.. Just seems like you would need a cut edge to cut edge pinch point to sheer through 60lb fluro hanging freely... Just my opinion..

I've had this happen experimenting with "plastic" leader material. I am not a fish horser. What I believe happened in my cases is that fish got off aways through heavy weeds, turned a couple of corners and by the time I got to it it was likely mostly cut thru already. Just my surmising...

So toothy critters on light leaders in open water, you stand a chance IF you don't get too excited. In heavy cover, I'll bet on the fish. That said, I still treat my 20# uncoated wire pretty gingerly. It's not a horse rig, just insurance against something unforeseen.

[Skipper]

To play devil's advocate...

I've noticed a a direct correlation between "bite offs" and poor ability to tie a knot while fishing with others. Guys who fumble with their knots or only can tie one or two knots effectively get "bit off" much more than guys who have a half dozen or more knots memorized and understand when to use them. The best line on earth is worthless if it cant be terminated effectively. Why do people have this knot slipping/breaking problem with pike? They are heavier in the water, and anglers tend to set the hook with much greater force than with other species.

Also, I notice MANY more "bite offs" in zebra mussel infested waters. Those things are a real pain.

I think lots of line and knot failures get blamed on pike teeth. I'm pretty sure there are other factors in play in many cases though.

[Gills-only]

Used to use 20# mono leader about 2' long, caught 100's of pike up to 15# and was never bit off!!  Maybe just lucky!

[esox_xtm]

To play devil's advocate...

I've noticed a a direct correlation between "bite offs" and poor ability to tie a knot while fishing with others. Guys who fumble with their knots or only can tie one or two knots effectively get "bit off" much more than guys who have a half dozen or more knots memorized and understand when to use them. The best line on earth is worthless if it cant be terminated effectively. Why do people have this knot slipping/breaking problem with pike? They are heavier in the water, and anglers tend to set the hook with much greater force than with other species.

Also, I notice MANY more "bite offs" in zebra mussel infested waters. Those things are a real pain.

I think lots of line and knot failures get blamed on pike teeth. I'm pretty sure there are other factors in play in many cases though.

All due respect Skipper, I'm one of those guys that only knows a few knots. But they are good ones and do everything I need them to do for me. Like not slip with superlines that I use almost exclusively for open water applications. Palomar and Uni are 100% non-slippers. I know and have used some "old school" knots like the Trilene (quick and effective for mono/fluoro lines), blood, nail (I use for snelling) and clinch knots. When it really comes down to it I could rely on about 4 or maybe 5 good knots. I could do the "Knot Wars" thing but I like simple and effective. That's just me.

I also know the difference between a returning pig tail (bad knot) and a bite off (8 of 14 inches coming back).

I know..... "Devil's advocate". I do that sometimes too. And yes, zebras suck. Razor sharp. We've got 'em all over area lakes.

Just my experiences.

And Gills, if I were you..... all I'd do is buy lottery tickets. 

[Gills-only]

I do never came close!!!!!

[thomasthepikehunter]

To play devil's advocate...

I've noticed a a direct correlation between "bite offs" and poor ability to tie a knot while fishing with others. Guys who fumble with their knots or only can tie one or two knots effectively get "bit off" much more than guys who have a half dozen or more knots memorized and understand when to use them. The best line on earth is worthless if it cant be terminated effectively. Why do people have this knot slipping/breaking problem with pike? They are heavier in the water, and anglers tend to set the hook with much greater force than with other species.

Also, I notice MANY more "bite offs" in zebra mussel infested waters. Those things are a real pain.

I think lots of line and knot failures get blamed on pike teeth. I'm pretty sure there are other factors in play in many cases though.

It is easy to tell a bite off, from a bad knot. If your knot came undone, the last few inches of line you pull up will be all coiled up. I've seen it happen a lot, but like you mentioned, it often comes on the hook set. I can't remember a "bite off" that happened instantly. All the ones I had were mid fight, often as a run at the hole. In open water, people often catch pike while walleye fishing with Lindy rigs. As with a quick strike, you often have multiple hooks if you use a crawler rig. I think that plays a huge part. I've had it happen a number of times I have pulled in a pike on my quick strike with one hook cut off (and in the mouth), and the other still holding on. But those rigs need a relatively violent hook set, which also often PO's fish and really gets them to fight right away. I've lost, and seem people loose some good fish to fluorocarbon. Would the fish have bit if it were a steel leader? Who knows. I still use fluorocarbon, but it is becoming used less and less. It has become more of a secret weapon for me. If fish don't bite, I have pre-tied rigs I just need to put on my tip ups. I am still firmly set on 40# being the bare minimum for bait fishing pike. No fluorocarbon is bite-proof, but 40# gives you a solid chance.

[northernnyice]

Used to use 20# mono leader about 2' long, caught 100's of pike up to 15# and was never bit off!!  Maybe just lucky!

Never bit off once, 20lb mono, hundreds of pike. hmmmmmmmmmm..

[Gills-only]

Never bit off once, 20lb mono, hundreds of pike. hmmmmmmmmmm..

     These were not large pike, biggest 15#, used to catch about 40 -60 per year, believe what you want!!

[deadsmelthead]

Never bit off once, 20lb mono, hundreds of pike. hmmmmmmmmmm..

100s of pike here also.. more than a few over 20lbs , never had fish bite through the line.. Must be the 2 luckiest fisherman alive..

[coboy]

100s of pike here also.. more than a few over 20lbs , never had fish bite through the line.. Must be the 2 luckiest fisherman alive..

Naw, where I live the pike have sharper teeth! 

[Gills-only]

100s of pike here also.. more than a few over 20lbs , never had fish bite through the line.. Must be the 2 luckiest fisherman alive..

  Guess gotta know what ur doing!!  Yes, change the leader after catching one, that's common sense!

[deadsmelthead]

I heard they have a better dental plan out your way 

In all seriousness, confidence in what you are using sometimes is all you need.. The leader debate will never die. Steel, wire, fluro, mono, braid, dacron .. The all work...

[Gills-only]

I heard they have a better dental plan out your way 

In all seriousness, confidence in what you are using sometimes is all you need.. The leader debate will never die. Steel, wire, fluro, mono, braid, dacron .. The all work...

           Agreed!!