Vermont Deer Season

[smartpill]

OK my two cents. I'm 55 yrs. old been a vermonter, hunter all my life. Back in the day the old timers never shot anything under a 8 pt. If you did you got ragged on . I was the only one that bow hunted that I knew except for a few flatlanders, no mechanical releases. bow hunting rifle that was it. saw herds of 20 or more every where you went. Now you got Bow, all month and after rifle one week then youth week end then rifle then muzzleloader witch I have the first state record. Now they want more, First YOU DON"T NEED DOE HUNTING, POACHER are taking care of that, then rd. kill. Now I'm not totally against youth hunting but one free deer an that's it. the problem with youths today everything is handed to them. ZONE hunting that works really good, RIGHT! That's like a free for all go where you want. Then put all the doe permits on line till there all gone WHAT THE HELL!!!! Hunting to me is being in the outdoors enjoying nature NOT KILLING SOMETHING. DON"T get me wrong I like getting a deer . I taught my self too hunt no youth day in my time and turned out to be a successful hunter , get a deer just about every year on PUBLIC LAND no food plots ,bait or what ever. This state can put out trophies if you give it a chance. Antler restriction is good for me and I"m a meat hunter. SO GET OUT of your trucks and road hunting and you may get a deer. FOR the people shooting and look after stay the HELL OUT OF THE WOODS your nothing but a poacher and NOT A HUNTER. Ask that guy that killed his son spring turkey hunting BEARDED turkeys ONLY.

Why is there no longer bounty's on Coyotes. Why not offer guys incentives to kill off some coyotes. A good friend of mine set up a trail cam outside of a coyote den here in Chittenden County last summer. From May to September that trail cam recorded the mother coyote bring back 17 different fawn to the den. that's right 17 fawn!!!! I have hunted VT my entire life and have never seen the coyote population as healthy as it is now. I hunt the Southern part of the state and the deer herd is the worse I have ever seen it, and I blame it solely on coyotes. I have shot deer on this particular piece of property for the last 12 years and there have been instances when I have shot deer toward dark and within 10 minutes, I have seen coyotes on these dead deer. Coyotes are everywhere in Windham county. COYOTES AR NOTHING BUT PREDATORS and no I don't want hear that coyotes are part of the natural evolution and we need them. We don't need them.. In addition to a severe winter, they will decimate the deer herd

[Leafmountain10]

Holy Crap, 17 fawns!!!  That stinks....  wanted to say that I know a kid who hit a nice buck during bow season and thought that his shot was a little far back.  Decided to leave it alone until the morning, let it bed down and die.  Came back the next morning and found what was left of the deer only 150 yds from where he hit it.  All that the coyotes left was the head and antlers....

I think that I'm tracking anything I hit all night if I have too.  No more leaving it for the night and giving the dogs a feast.

LM

[rawrightII]

smartpill- same scenario here in windsor county. over the course of the end of winter early spring, one coyote 21 deer. that is just stupid. i shoot around ten a year and those *****s just seem to keep growing in population. i stated this earlier, but ive seen coyotes running deer during bow and last years rifle season.

[vthonkerhtr]

first of all this is for all you wine asses that dont like the youth season, maybe we should give you a senior citizen day!  and all of you selfesh hunters that would rather shoot some scrub spike horn than see a kid go out a weekend before you and kill your deer.  i would much rather have a kid shoot there first deer on youth day it is a great thing that the state has done and others are doing by giving the future of hunting a chance before all of the rest of us get out, and by the way we do all have a chance at hunting before the youth's get in the woods maybe those who are whining about youth day should pick up a bow!  i do every year, and try to harvest a doe for a meat deer.  that doe may be the only one i connect with but i have seen alot bigger and better bucks in this state since the spike law and would be all for a 3pt on a side.  i also agree that the state should do a number of clearcutting on state lands to improve the deer habitat instead of leaving it mature forrest land, cleat cut it and you will have a deer buffett for years to come.  the state could bennifit from the logging income and turn that around and put it back into the wildlife systems for stocking walleye in every pond in the state insead of this crappy trout stocking program!  i wish!  jsut my veiws on this topic.

[Leafmountain10]

Wow, Honker!  too bad you couldn't be a little more respectful to the others on the board with slightly different opinions.  Totally for youth season myself, just not for the guy who pushes his kids at 6 years old though hunter safety then fills his wife's, mother, and the little ones tags every year.  I believe it happens a lot. 

-WA

[handload]

There are few things us Vermonter deer hunters get fired up more about than the condition of the states deer herd. It's interesting to me to go to the meetings around the state and see very miled, soft spoken people get so upset. We all agree that everyone is welcome to their opinion, and everyone will have a different view on certain topics. To get thousands of people to agree 100% on anything will be impossible............ ever try to order a pizza that will be agreable to more than three people. With that being said, it would be a mistake to manage our deer herd on opinions, REAL science needs to be used...REAL data, what your friends brother inlaw's exwifes new boyfriends coworker who has hunted deer in Vermont since Moby Dick was a minnow thinks really is not the kind of data I can get behind. And the data the state biologist use, I know first hand is, well.......maybe a bit less than reliable on some accounts.

Here is my wish list.

1. State Biologist that have the over all health of the deer population as thier top priority. No guess work and keep the politics out of it.

2. A more agressive approach to eliminate unlawfull hunting, poaching and more sever penelties to those who violate.

3. Habbitat management and improvements to foster a healthy deer population.

4. Protection for land owners aginst lawsuit if someone is hurt while hunting on thier property. As well as incentives to land owners who make thier land open to hunting.

5. More education for new hunters on deer management so that they can make thier own fact based decisions on what seasons they want to hunt and what deer they wish to harvast.

Thats it!!! Thanks guys!

[Fish-On-VT]

Handload - that's a great wish list.... just too bad it will remain a WISH under the current F&W management 

~ Fish-on-VT

[Weedmaster]

Handload, 1/2 of one of your wishes is reality. There is a law on the books protecting landowners from lawsuit.

[Leafmountain10]

Well said Handload    I like the Pizza analogy!  You are very right. seems like making hunting violations stiffer may be one of the easier ones to address.  Us as hunters can wright our local FW board member.

[freaknasty7]

i agree smartpill. why not offer some sort of incentive to hunters to try an deminish the coyote population. whether they say it or not, everyone knows that vermont not only has a serious coyote problem but a problem with deer herd management. if we could only get every hunter to kill 4 or 5 of these things a year (or maybe more) you would see a slight difference in the deer herd. i.e more fawns. therefore more deer in general.  i myself hunt with a crew of over 15 people during the winter chasing coyotes with hounds. this year we have shot over 30 yotes just in southern vermont alone. now if we could only get more people to do the same thing. as for the 3pt law....i say go for it. i have already seen a substantial change in the deer where i hunt. not only more bucks, but bigger bucks. in the past 2 years i have seen more racked bucks than i ever have in years past.for those of you who do not agree with the 3pt law or even the 2pt law, take a look at the weight differences and antler points from this year and compare to years past and you will see what exactly the 2pt law has done for vermont. just my 2 cents worth

[finlessbrown]

i've heard of dog hunting coyotes. how do you train a dog to run them, and what breed do you use? i would like to try this if someone could give me a lead.

[freaknasty7]

a lot of people use blue ticks, fox hounds, rhodesian ridgebacks or walkers. the easiest way to train a coyote hound is to run them with other hounds and eventually they will pick it up. start them out when a pup on a coyote hide and let em tear it up. just dont start running them till they are big enough. if you run a small pup with other hounds, they usually fall behind and thats a very good way to get your pup killed by a coyote. if you dont have that option with other hounds, your best bet would be to get em out in the woods as much as you can on coyote tracks, or even send the pup to a coyote hound trainer in canada

[smartpill]

a lot of people use blue ticks, fox hounds, rhodesian ridgebacks or walkers. the easiest way to train a coyote hound is to run them with other hounds and eventually they will pick it up. start them out when a pup on a coyote hide and let em tear it up. just dont start running them till they are big enough. if you run a small pup with other hounds, they usually fall behind and thats a very good way to get your pup killed by a coyote. if you dont have that option with other hounds, your best bet would be to get em out in the woods as much as you can on coyote tracks, or even send the pup to a coyote hound trainer in canada

Freaknasty7,

I'm glad to hear that you and the "boys" are killing off some coyotes. Not sure how much of an impact it will have on the deer herd, but it is certainly a good start. One of my co-workers has shot several coyotes this past winter out of his bedroom window. And he lives in a fairly populated area, which tells me the herd is healthy.

Am I mistaken or did there used to be a bounty on coyotes?? But because of the anti-hunters and bad "press" it received, it was eliminated??? For those anti-hunters who think killing coyotes is a bad idea. I would welcome you to watch a helpless fawn or a mature doe in the middle of the winter being "terrorized" by a pack of coyotes. It is not a pretty sight as I have witnessed it first hand. It was a horrible, horrible event. I think this may change some minds about a "coyote bounty"

On another note, fished St. Albans Bay this past weekend. Caught half dozen pike and two largemouth at just about 5 lbs. out of the same hole. sold about $30 worth of Perch. All and all a good day. WOrk all week like most of you guys, so only get to fish on the weekends. Would like to get one more in, but it may not happen. It's going to be tough to give it up for the year??

[freaknasty7]

im not sure if there was was a bounty on coyotes. ive only been hunting for about 12 years now. being 23, i wasnt around that long ago to know if there was a bounty. but there should be without a doubt. have the state even give 10-20 bucks a coyote. add it up over the course of a year and you could have some money on your hands. glad to hear about your fishing trip. ive been done for probably a month or so now due to sugaring. i would like to get out maybe at least once more this year. have to see how the conditions are.

[Little Brown Dog]

If you have an interest in Vermont's white-tailed deer you will want to attend one of the five annual public meetings being held in March by the Vermont Fish & Wildlife Department to discuss the deer herd.  The meetings begin March 23rd in Springfield and Orleans.

Wildlife biologists will share information on 2009 hunting season results as well as data gathered at biological check stations on antler measurements, ages and weights of deer taken.  Winter severity data also will be reviewed.

Anyone interested is urged to attend one of the following meetings, all beginning at 7:00 p.m. and ending at 8:30 p.m.

Date Town Location
March 23 Springfield  Riverside Jr. High School,
13 Fairground Rd.
March 23   Orleans Lake Region Union H.S.,
317 Lake Region Rd. 
March 24   Castleton Kehoe Conservation Camp Education Ctr., 636 Point of Pines Rd
March 25 St Albans St Albans Town Educational Ctr., 169 S. Main
March 29 Montpelier Pavilion Auditorium, 109 State Street 

[Fish-On-VT]

2009 Harvest Report is here:
http://www.vtfishandwildlife.com/library/Reports_and_Documents/Hunting_and_Trapping/Harvest_Reports/2009_White-tailed_Deer_Harvest_Report.pdf

Also, I've had a great turn out on my survey, 335 votes!!  Please continue to spread the word.
http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/476191

Thanks ~ Fish-on-VT

[tench]

im not sure if there was was a bounty on coyotes. ive only been hunting for about 12 years now. being 23, i wasnt around that long ago to know if there was a bounty. but there should be without a doubt. have the state even give 10-20 bucks a coyote. add it up over the course of a year and you could have some money on your hands. glad to hear about your fishing trip. ive been done for probably a month or so now due to sugaring. i would like to get out maybe at least once more this year. have to see how the conditions are.

I don't think the state could spare that much money, but I think that local weigh in stations should have a type of buck pool sort of thing for coyotes. I also think that if there was more of a fur trading base in the state hunting and trapping of coyotes would become more popular. I know there's quite a few in Franklin and around my house in Enosburg, the neighbors have lost a few chickens and turkeys to them...

On a side note I've never gotten into hunting them, don't even know where to start. Any tips? Don't mean to jack the thread, but maybe some of you more experienced coyote hunters could share some helpful info to get more of us into it.
-carm

[freaknasty7]

to start yourself you could invest in a few coyote calls. they have howlers and squeelers and all sorts of calls. for the beginner- try a sqeeler. anything that sounds like a dying rodent, will attract the attention of any predetor, being a coyote bobcat or fox. if you really want to get into it carmifisher, you should get ahold of me on e-mail or  pm. i could take you out and show you the ropes. probly only have another week or two of running coyotes with the hounds. if not we could to some calling. let me know

[1Badboy]

i ve been calling coyotes all winter , we dont have as many as they do in southern vt but we ve been doing our part

[Bailbuster]

Why is there no longer bounty's on Coyotes. Why not offer guys incentives to kill off some coyotes. A good friend of mine set up a trail cam outside of a coyote den here in Chittenden County last summer. From May to September that trail cam recorded the mother coyote bring back 17 different fawn to the den. that's right 17 fawn!!!! I have hunted VT my entire life and have never seen the coyote population as healthy as it is now. I hunt the Southern part of the state and the deer herd is the worse I have ever seen it, and I blame it solely on coyotes. I have shot deer on this particular piece of property for the last 12 years and there have been instances when I have shot deer toward dark and within 10 minutes, I have seen coyotes on these dead deer. Coyotes are everywhere in Windham county. COYOTES AR NOTHING BUT PREDATORS and no I don't want hear that coyotes are part of the natural evolution and we need them. We don't need them.. In addition to a severe winter, they will decimate the deer herd

I would like to see that video/I would bet the F&G would also.Post it up. I don't think there ever was a bounty here.BB

[1Badboy]

I would like to see that video/I would bet the F&G would also.Post it up. I don't think there ever was a bounty here.BB

X2 would love to see those pics !

a bounty would be great but i know the state would never wont to part with the money

i have been sending emails to F & G and boards members about possibly makeing it legal to use lights for predators during the winter but have yet to get a response !
i think the problem is only getting worse and am glad it s so fun to hunt em but think we should be able to use lights as there are other states in the northeast that allow it and theres no way you could ever OVER hunt them !

[finlessbrown]

i don't think there was ever a bounty on them but an old timer told me there was one on porcupines years ago

[Leafmountain10]

Yup,  you would bring in their ears to the town clerks office .... think it was something like 50 cents a piece.

[madriver]

I cannot agree with FISHANDBEER more. Wayne really needs to stop thinking that VT is a trophy state or ever will be (unless he has us continue to stop hunting until the bucks are already a trophy). He needs to focus on managing our land with the other two state agencies(forest and parts, and ornamental conservation) who are within throwing distance from his own office. We do not have the correct land mass and feed to produce these animals and never have. He has made hunting very difficult for most of the hunting population. The deer herd has been hurt by the muzzleloader doe permits and will continue to be. It appears the god almighty $$$ has hit the VT Fish and Wildlife dept. Buy the way did bag a 7point 170 lb buck but still the season was very dim overall. We shot and killed more big bucks when they were more to hunt then we have since the new regs. One for thing we need not to forget: HUNTING--was originated for the meat not the antler mass or size of the antler. It's the joy of the hunt no matter how big or small the animal is--That's what we are told by fish and wildlife to teach our children. I don't belong to any other forum but had to sign up for this one!

[buckshot464]

Madriver i couldn't agree with you more,  concentrating on the habbitat is where its at, not on the antler size! 
Anyone who thinks a three point on a side rule is even remotly feasable is not in touch with hunting in Vermont.  Just shooting any deer in Vermont is a trophy. 
  Saying that the AR's are for the health of the heard is a crock!  I never saw any sick deer running around the woods.  So a few more spike bucks running around how does that make them healthier?  ha
Check out this site Madriver and anyone intersted,  Go to the Vermont section, lots of talk on deer hunting and deer managment.
http://www.huntingchat.net/forum/index.php

[madriver]

Buckshot we are on the same page. I've hunted since I was 10 years old and I'm 47. We shot alot of good bucks and we are not doing better now but worse since they changed the regs--they don't even curb the doe permits on a real bad winter--2000-2001. As I would have thought the spikes are the only ones left for breeding, while before someone who would have shot that spike has to wait now and shoot a mature buck which could have been left for breeding--just the opposite what F&W thought. Also there areas are too large to dictate for the whole area. I have yet to see lying in the woods starving since the bad winters in the early 2000, yet we say they are not healthy. If they are not healthy its not because of the winter but the overall habitat and food throughout the entire year. Wayne is on a mission and his staff will not "buck" him or they will be looking for another job-wether he is right or wrong. My question How much time do they spend in the woods--including his warden staff!

[fishandbeer]

Buckshot,
I checked out the link you posted for the other chat room. Interesting reading... I was wondering if BruceBruce1957 is really Wayne Laroche. That guy is a piece of work. Is there anything about deer or deer hunting that he doesn't know? If I am reading those entries correctly, it looks like their little 5 year experiment didn't work quite like they thought. They didn't take into account the hunting pressure in this state when they proposed these regs. Who would of thought that a 1.5 year old deer that grew a nice set of horns, is a deer you want to keep in the herd? They turned us loose on those deer, and the big boys as well. That allows the little scrawny spike bucks with terrible genetics to get in on the lovin. That to me just never made sense. It will be interesting to see what new experiment they have in mind for us.....

[Leafmountain10]

Buckshot brings up a good point about letting the genetics of spikes go on.  Are we shooting our 1 1/2 old basket racks and thus eliminating some of the better genes of our deer herd? 

[Weedmaster]

Research shows that at 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 yrs you wouldn't be able to tell which bucks were spikes and which had little baskets. They just need time to mature. I also wouldn't be too concerned about spikes breeding all the does, its not like they are the only bucks left to breed.

[madriver]

I have realized after much closer examination that buckshot and fishandbeer are correct. As I thought!The data involved is bull! They make it look like they want to support their theires. Look at the site buckshot has offered us all to look at. The data is more real and logical. How do they come up yearling fawn success rate's(Births) Do they follow all the does in the state in every zone?? How do they attribute to coyote kills ?(which we know are high) At one point about 15 years ago they(F&WL) said coyotes have no impact on the deer herd. As another said- how to shoot a running buck with 3 points on a side? Someone else said not to shoot at a running buck-well I bet I've shot more buck running then he has shot in his life. (not Boasting but had to be said) That's big woods VT hunting! You shoot running bucks. This is not a video of a Illinois or Kansas hunt. The reality is we need a serious change and Wayne and the boys are going backwards .This site is mostly for venting-which thank you I've done!--LETS DO SOMETHING!