Author Topic: Gas generators on ice? (Read 11801 times)

Mr.Seaguar · « **on:** Oct 11, 2003, 08:47 PM »

Anyone do this? Use a generator and electric heat? I think this would allow one to make the shack airtight and therefore warmer. Tired of worrying about dieing from Carbon Monoxide.

mod_auger · « **Reply #1 on:** Oct 12, 2003, 01:52 AM »

The generator is a very good alternative to death by carbon monoxide. however, the chance of carbon monoxide poisoning is extremely low if you properly vent your ice house. I would be concerned if every 20th person on the lake dies due to carbon monoxide poisoning, rather than thinking of an alternative. The simple physics of having an electric baseboard heat is unimpressive, simply due to the fact of the low heat output initially and in duration would be ineffective, based on the heat output of the units. baseboard heat is made for an energy efficient home, not a shack that sits atop at least 6" of ice. although it does sound like a safe and reliable alternative, the thermodynamics of the set up would be innefective.

keep in mind though i am not taking into consideration the energy efficiency of your icehouse, and that baseboard heat may be a really good alternative. yes, it would work great if you were in the shanty all day that was well insulated, but the intial heat would be a problem. The reason why baseboard heaters became so popular was because they were efficient in the long run, so if that is what you are looking for, you may be on the right track.....

nocash0000 · « **Reply #2 on:** Oct 12, 2003, 04:08 AM »

coleman,has a heater with a built in converter totaly safe indoor's.5000 BTU-one pound bottle of propane will last 6-8 hours-very small in size also.

frostbite · « **Reply #3 on:** Oct 12, 2003, 06:34 AM »

mod auger makes a good point. There is one more problem with electric heaters in an ice shack, that being any resistive electircal appliance uses an incredible amount of amperage! The generator nesessary to run one would be big and loud. That said, they do make outside venting gas stoves for small applications such as ice shacks, and I don't think they cost nearly as much as the generator you would need to run electric heat. I burn wood and really like the fast dry heat that I get from it.

Trevor · « **Reply #4 on:** Oct 12, 2003, 09:16 AM »

What about when a large fish thrashes as it comes up the hole, splashing water all over the place. I usually end up with water pooled on the floor. Then there's the wet hand thing. I think the likelyhood of shock is probably greater than the potential for CO poisioning(in the case of gas heaters), of course the newer ones would be double insulated so that if it contacted water it would simply kick out the GFI on your generator. Of course you wouldn't be able to get power back to your heater unless you were able to dry it.

Really cool idea though Mr.Seaguar. I assume you were thinking of the small electric space heaters with a built in fan and thermostat, and not a baseboard heater. We often use em in blueprint shacks at work. The things(shacks) are about 8'x8'x8', and only partially insulated. One of those little heaters will turn em into a sauna, even at -20. One advantage is the wide range of temp. adjustment of the electric over your average gas heater.

This all sounds like too muck work. I think I'll just stick with my gas and open the flap...

Mr.Seaguar · « **Reply #5 on:** Oct 12, 2003, 09:32 AM »

Yeah, Trevor thats exactly what I was thinking. I have baseboard heat in my house and let me tell you, its about as efficient as maybe a burning barrel in the middle of a room. We installed a furnace and in THREE winters it paid for itself.
Also, propane heat in safe forms is not necessarliy the warmest either. After I go to all the headache of dragging the dum shack out, last thing I want to do is wear all my clothes inside. I dont care about cost. I want a 70* shack. That is my goal. Is the Coleman Sportcat going to do that? I went to their website and really like there products. But warmth is mandatory in this application.
I dont take a shack out very often. But when i do I want it WARM in there.
Thanks for the replies.

Trevor · « **Reply #6 on:** Oct 12, 2003, 10:08 AM »

Mr. Seaguar,

I recall one day last winter at work. The furnace was out in one of the lunch trailers in the morning and it was about -20 outside and not much warmer in the trailer. Off the top of my head I would guess the trailer measured about 60'Lx10'Wx8'H with 2"x2" exterior walls. We managed to round up four of those little electric heaters(I think they are about 1500 watts) We put one at either end and two in the middle. That was about 7:00am. Upon returning at about 9:30am we had to open all the doors and windows and kill the heat. we're talking 4800 cubic feet!!!

I think you should have no problem attaining your goal of a 70 degree shack. Just ensure to safeguard yourself against electric shock. Make sure all your gear is properly grounded, and your connections are elevated as to not come in contact with water.

If you don't already have a generator you might want to try and get yourself one that runs quietly....

Mr.Seaguar · « **Reply #7 on:** Oct 12, 2003, 10:29 AM »

I dont have a genertor but 100' extention cords only run about $9. So for $27 you wouldnt be able to here the thing.

Also, there are a TON of generators on the market. Some are made specifically for quietness and others for max output.

Trevor · « **Reply #8 on:** Oct 12, 2003, 10:53 AM »

You're more trusting of people than myself Mr. Seaguar.
I've seen too many items disappear to feel comfortable leaving my investment unguarded 300' away while I am sitting in my shack. Of course it might tip you off when the heat suddenly dies...

Maybe you could keep it nearby and cover it with an insulated box constructed of plywood. You could have two holes. One for air intake and one for exhaust. This would serve to dampen the noise. Wouldn't even hear it over the heater fan and hum of the Vex...

Also, if you plan to run cord 300' you should spend a little more and go heavy gauge.

I was thinking, another advantage of electric over gas is that it is a dry heat. I don't know if you've ever noticed but it seems propane gives off moisture as it burns...
Electric takes a while to bring up the temp as Mod auger mentioned...
You might still have to use gas heat just to get that initial blast. You could turn it off once the room was up to temp and maintain it with electric.

Man, pretty soon I'll have myself talked into the purchase of a generator....Mr Seaguar, see what you've started!!!

Mr.Seaguar · « **Reply #9 on:** Oct 12, 2003, 12:38 PM »

I was just teasing about the 300'. I almost got myself talked into this. Kinda spendy startup costs though. Might not be able to swing it. Got special plans for this years ice season. Thats for another thread.

Trevor · « **Reply #10 on:** Oct 12, 2003, 12:42 PM »

Guess the plywood box would be a stupid idea as most of the noise comes out the exhaust anyway....wasn't thinking to clearly on that one.....

Mr.Seaguar · « **Reply #11 on:** Oct 12, 2003, 01:20 PM »

How about one of those ATV mufflers that lower the noise so much? Generator cant put out more noise than ATV engine.

Trevor · « **Reply #12 on:** Oct 12, 2003, 01:31 PM »

I agree, most generators are four stroke, and of lower displacement than most ATV's. Just an extra baffle should do the trick. Maybe Johnny Walker muffler...LOL...

HIMO · « **Reply #13 on:** Oct 13, 2003, 11:27 AM »

when I worked in the construction trades, we would just stand a piece of ply wood on the end of the generator opposite the muffler to deflect the sound away from us. Honda makes a really quiet one that bears checking out. just my 2 cents. good luck.

dogfish · « **Reply #14 on:** Oct 13, 2003, 12:17 PM »

Just cut a big hole and suspend the generator under the ice and you will never hear it...Ha.

But anyways when I lived in Vermont I fished a big lake in the North East corner of the state where a lot of guys would fish smelt for cash (the bait business mostly) they all had Honda generators hooked up to there shacks with lights and outlets for heaters and hotplates. Very cozy.

cold_feet · « **Reply #15 on:** Oct 13, 2003, 07:46 PM »

Just bring the extention cords and plug them into someones cottage before you head out on the ice drag the cords out to your hole set up and fish. just think of it you don't have to buy a generator or gas to run it and when your done fishing just unplug it and go home. Anyone who can afford lake front property can afford to pay your electric.

Just don't forget to bring the TV and electric fillet knife Maybe the coffee pot and a electic blanket so you can stay all night.
Cold Feet

Trevor · « **Reply #16 on:** Oct 13, 2003, 08:22 PM »

I wonder if you used one of those 12V DC to AC plug adapters and ran it off your vehicle's cigarette lighter? Maybe not enough power????

Mr.Seaguar · « **Reply #17 on:** Oct 14, 2003, 08:19 PM »

I can just see me with a dead battery out on the ice.

Trevor · « **Reply #18 on:** Oct 15, 2003, 08:32 PM »

Well, you would have to start the truck every now and then as to allow the battery to charge...of course if you're going to that you may as well use the generator...
Maybe you could rig a solar panel on the roof of your shack...or maybe a life size version of one of those wheels hamsters run on, rigged to a turbine....you could bring your wife and make her run on it....

Mr.Seaguar · « **Reply #19 on:** Oct 15, 2003, 08:50 PM »

Maybe this Coleman heater is the way to go after all. Does this thing keep shacks warm? Or should i use 3 of them.

Trevor · « **Reply #20 on:** Oct 15, 2003, 10:26 PM »

Mr. Heater's "Portable Buddy" has a low oxygen sensor and shuts itself off if levels drop too low. It has two settings 4000 and 9000 BTU. It is actually approved for indoor use. I'm thinking of investing in one.

Barleydog · « **Reply #21 on:** Oct 15, 2003, 11:12 PM »

Gotta agree with the rest of the Honda posters. Quite and effective enough not to spook the fish.

HIMO · « **Reply #22 on:** Oct 16, 2003, 07:17 AM »

Trevor. make the move to the buddy heater. you won't be sorry. I bought the 12 foot hose so I can hook it to a 20 lb. bottle and leave the bottle outside the shack. the only down fall of these heaters is they will blow out if exposed to wind. all in all it is a good product. good luck.

hollis · « **Reply #23 on:** Oct 18, 2003, 12:30 AM »

How about looking at a HOT VENT heater by ZODI? I have one but haven't had a chance yet to really use it so I can't say how well it works yet. Tried in in my tool shed and it seems to work as claimed,.I plan to silcone the base to a small square of plywood in one of those milk carton crates,..another one for the top and held together by clamps/tiny bungies, on the outside I plane to cover it with plastic or that bubble wrap reflective aluminum via contact glue and perhaps a few thin bungies. This is to keep wind from putting out the flame as well as the wind stripping BTUs from the metal heat exchanger. you DO need a small battery to run it and that can go inside same,.these have a vent hose that comes off the unit and goes to your shelter ,..also it can get air from inside your shelter via another tube so you don't have to try to heat very cold air and recycle warmer air from your shelter. I like that the shelter will stay drier and not that moisture you get from a propane heater inside. I have a Mr Buddy heater too but I don't like breathing the fumes from any heater. I might use it for a little while to pre warm the shelter for a while and then turn it off and let the HOT VENT maintain the heat,..thats my plan anyway. They claim it puts out 10,000 btu's,..you CAN get the 20,000 btu model but I'm hoping this will do the trick. Hope this helps,..

Trevor · « **Reply #24 on:** Oct 18, 2003, 08:48 AM »

This is the first I've heard of this heater, so of course I had to check it out.....cool concept...
Here are pics of the 10000 & 20000 BTU models respectively and a link:

http://www.equineshower.com/hotvents.html

Trevor · « **Reply #25 on:** Oct 18, 2003, 03:06 PM »

Was just thinking, could probably rig a regular propane heater with a 12 volt fan for a lot cheaper than what these guys are asking for this thing($219 US). Also, on their site they say the battery will run the fan for four hours before needing recharging, then in the next sentence they claim it's ideal for ice fishing.....not in my books. You could have a couple charged batteries on hand, but after the initial purchase price who wants to spend yet more cash on extra batteries. Nevertheless I still think the things are really cool...

cold_feet · « **Reply #26 on:** Oct 18, 2003, 05:25 PM »

Besides who's going to drag all this stuff out on the ice. If you buy all this does it come with Sherpas to haul it out and if they come with it who feeds them? Or pays them?

Cold Feet

hollis · « **Reply #27 on:** Oct 18, 2003, 08:03 PM »

[Trevor, I agree. the fan could be more efficient, I like the though of those hi tech 12v fans. You can get them at radio shack and maybe better yet at surplus stores for very little they don't blow as much air but the air would be hotter and it would run all day. might have to do a bit of jury rigging,..I'm driven by not wanting to breath that fumey and acrid moist air. I think I rather stay home. Again , I have the basic model and might use the Mr. buddy to take the temp up at first and if it need a bit of bump to thaw things out,.but I'm hoping I can make it work w/o too much wt and space,

Zorros shack · « **Reply #28 on:** Feb 14, 2007, 01:09 PM »

Everyone in nh keeps the genorator out side the bob house.

-ADKIceman · « **Reply #29 on:** Feb 14, 2007, 01:20 PM »

My darn aerator is enough to drive me nutz! I couldn't imagine the noise from a generator

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Author Topic: Gas generators on ice? (Read 11801 times)