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Author Topic: Bite Offs  (Read 5385 times)

Offline Hardwater75

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Bite Offs
« on: Feb 05, 2019, 08:11 PM »
I was sight-fishing through my shanty at a lake in NEPA this past weekend. I had caught one big perch and a couple small slime rockets when the biggest pickerel I have ever seen came under my shack. I dropped down a live shiner and he crunched it. He made a solid run then bit me off leaving me heart broken. About an hour later I hooked another giant pickerel, but he also bit me off. I was using 4lb mono (my panfish rod) to a circle hook. How do you guys prevent biteoffs? I was thinking about using thin wire or heavy mono the next time I go out, but I'm worried the fish will see the line and turn away. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks and tight lines.

Offline butcher

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #1 on: Feb 05, 2019, 08:43 PM »
In my experience, members of the esox family (Muskies, pike & pickerel) are not very line shy.  You could go with a heavier monofilament line specifically for pickerel or you could simply add a fluorocarbon leader.  Fluoro is very tough and super clear.

Even with a leader, you should really consider using a heavier main line if you are targeting pickerel.  4 lb line is very thin and will take a terrible beating from even a small pickerel. Further, you’ll need to play a big fish a long time with light line which really stresses them badly.  Keep in mind, big fish = old fish so the stress alone from a lengthy fight can kill them. If you intend to release the fish, you need to keep the fight as short as possible. Land the fish quickly and release it quickly while it’s still angry. To do this, you need heavier line.

Offline Chris338378

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #2 on: Feb 05, 2019, 10:56 PM »
If you're after toothy fish you could have a spare rod set with heavier leader to drop down for them to chomp on.  On my tip-ups I use 20 pound Spider Wire EZBraid because it has 6 pound diameter for a leader and have yet to have a pickerel bite through it and that's what I'd use for leader on the spare rod. 

Offline metalsled1

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #3 on: Feb 06, 2019, 06:59 AM »
Obviously if you have pike, pickerel or muskies in the area where you jig then there is no sense trying to figure out how to land one on 4# test mono on a panfish jig rod. Either have another rod ready that is equipped for toothy critters or just laugh at the experience and tie on another jig. When I open water fish Ontario every year I lose 10-15 jigs with plastics in a week to pike bite offs. I don't like steel leaders as I'm primarily fishing for smallmouth so I just take it with  grain of salt, jigs are cheap. I fish 8# mono on a 7' spinning rod and sometimes it's really funny - you're jigging and without even a hit felt you raise your rod to lift the jig and, gonzo.............no weight on the other end, pike literally bit it off clean without any feel of a strike. If you've never been around the toothy critter fish family it's a new experience. If you're reeling lures you may experience a bite off without a steel leader now and then but if you're fishing a slower approach with plastic worms, jig w/twister tail, etc. they are going to bite off their fair share!

Offline delawareriver

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #4 on: Feb 06, 2019, 07:40 AM »
If you're after toothy fish you could have a spare rod set with heavier leader to drop down for them to chomp on.  On my tip-ups I use 20 pound Spider Wire EZBraid because it has 6 pound diameter for a leader and have yet to have a pickerel bite through it and that's what I'd use for leader on the spare rod.
braid is the worse thing to use for toothy fish. plus its visible. If you dont care about the visibility than go with wire, if visibility is a concern go with heavier flouro leader.

Offline delawareriver

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #5 on: Feb 06, 2019, 07:49 AM »
I was sight-fishing through my shanty at a lake in NEPA this past weekend. I had caught one big perch and a couple small slime rockets when the biggest pickerel I have ever seen came under my shack. I dropped down a live shiner and he crunched it. He made a solid run then bit me off leaving me heart broken. About an hour later I hooked another giant pickerel, but he also bit me off. I was using 4lb mono (my panfish rod) to a circle hook. How do you guys prevent biteoffs? I was thinking about using thin wire or heavy mono the next time I go out, but I'm worried the fish will see the line and turn away. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks and tight lines.
I always liked 10-15lb flouro leaders while targeting pickerel.

Offline Chris338378

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #6 on: Feb 06, 2019, 05:32 PM »
braid is the worse thing to use for toothy fish. plus its visible. If you dont care about the visibility than go with wire, if visibility is a concern go with heavier flouro leader.

That's funny considering I've been using this set up for the past fifteen years and have caught God only knows how many pickerel on it without any bite offs.  I've also caught bass and perch on it also.  As for the issue of it being visible yeah it is but so is steel leaders and over the years millions of toothy fish have been caught on them so I don't see where leaders being visible is such a major issue for toothy fish.

Offline EssoxHunter

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #7 on: Feb 08, 2019, 08:40 PM »
If yer setting up a jigging rod for toothy critters, to fish without worry, you need at least a medium power jigging rod.  Atleast 8lb mono ice or flouro ice, but most importantly a light wire leader, like Toothy Critter, or any light wire leaders you can find in 6" pr 12"....they don't care about seeing the line or leader. Good luck
Catch And Release  Pike And Muskie!!!

Offline Spider1

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #8 on: Feb 11, 2019, 05:14 AM »
yeeah... it happens. I lost a couple of my favorite jigs yesterday to pickerel. I found that you get far less bite offs with pickerel if you use "longer" jigs and don't try to horse them around. I got a couple 23" pickerel the other day on 3# mono. Tons of fun. When I say longer I mean like spoons, maybe with a chain and hook or a chandelier jig. Something that will let them get hooked but still keep the line from getting to close to them chompers. I also have some 6" wire leaders for my tip ups when I target pickerel and honestly it doesn't seem to put off the perch and bass either.

Offline honesdaletom

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #9 on: Feb 24, 2019, 01:27 PM »
I use the hooks they sell for blue fish. A big baitholder hook with 8" steel leader attached o a barrel swivel. Pickerel dont seem to be afraid of it, they just see the struggling bait and eat it. I also land the occasional pickerel on a little jig with a waxie.  And I get my share of bite offs as well.

Offline HeclaHardWater

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #10 on: Feb 26, 2019, 01:54 PM »
I been using 2 lb Fluoro and have landed quite a few decent size pickerel while fishing for panfish. A good gaff and proper drag is just as important as the line. Definitely don’t horse them when you feel em thrashing their heads. Let them tire themselves out. Granted I have lost a few jigs, but I have also saved my fair share of $5 jigs. Also after having a pickerel fight, I rip off 2 feet of line and re-tie.

Offline sloughdog

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #11 on: Mar 01, 2019, 01:21 PM »
I use fluro anywhere from 10lb and up. You can turn your hooks out (offset from the hook shank) even on circle hooks to make the hook turn on a strike and hook the fish in the lip, outside of the teeth, or corner of the mouth.  I do this with my jigs even when targeting panfish. Works great.

Offline HeclaHardWater

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #12 on: Mar 02, 2019, 06:11 PM »
Good thought about the hooks and line being outside the fishes mouth. I use the Hali drop chains when jigging for panfish so that also gives me an advantage keeping the line outside the fishes mouth.

Offline OhhDam

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #13 on: Jan 12, 2021, 09:42 AM »
Guys, this is an old thread, but thank you for the advise! Your info from experience on this site is a huge part to feeding my addiction to the sport. It can be hard to learn this stuff Especially as a newer guy without many outdoorsmen buddies. Searching youtube and online is useless.
Got my game plan now. Cant wait to get out this weekend! Thanks again  :tipup: :tipup:


Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #14 on: Jan 12, 2021, 09:51 AM »
If you're getting cut off with an incidental catch while panfishing it is pretty much collateral damage. If you're actually targeting pike, muskies, pickerel I'd disagree with about 80% of the info in this thread.
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Offline OhhDam

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #15 on: Jan 12, 2021, 10:11 AM »
XTM,
Okay, now I'm not so sure... I'm planning first pike/pickerel trip. For the tip-ups how does this sound? 25# mason braid with a 2' long 15# florocarbon leader.

Offline jaeger80

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #16 on: Jan 12, 2021, 10:14 AM »
Nice thin titanium leaders are fairly inconspicuous and strong as leaders...

Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #17 on: Jan 12, 2021, 08:32 PM »
XTM,
Okay, now I'm not so sure... I'm planning first pike/pickerel trip. For the tip-ups how does this sound? 25# mason braid with a 2' long 15# florocarbon leader.

Big discussion, long story short: No braid as a leader. I don't care what anyone says. No.

Fluorocarbon in open water (no weeds, wood or other obstructions) my sources but not my experiences say you can do 20# but you gotta know how to handle a fish. Use leader material, NOT something made to spool on a reel. My preference, long standing here, is wire. I've used a stranded uncoated wire for decades in 18 - 20# test with great results. Never been significantly outfished by others fishing with me using fluoro. It may be an advantage but I think there are other variables that enter into the "attractiveness equation" other than "invisibility". Current go to is a 17# nylon coated 7 x 7 wire that you can tie a knot in. Very thin, more flexible than 20# fluoro and (I believe) pretty low profile.

That said, I'm still playing with fluoro (just to prove/disprove to myself) and I'm using exclusively hybrid light fluoro/wire leaders for dead bait until proven flawed (new for 2021).

Titanium offers almost zero advantages over wire only in the fact it does not kink/curl. Still visible as steel, hard to work with and expensive. I'm out on that.

So for you? If you're not in heavy cover go to 20# fluoro and be prepared to baby those fish to the hole. After all, isn't that half the fun  ;)2? If you're not adept at babying hooked fish get some 49 strand Surflon in 20# test and rock it. You will find that the wire is MORE flexible, easier to tie and about the same cost as fluoro. Plus you get the added insurance of bite off protection.

Do as you want. This is just my two cent based on the experiences I've had. Others experiences differ and they are as entitled to their opinions as I am.
To fish or not to fish? That's a stupid question!



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Offline jaeger80

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #18 on: Jan 13, 2021, 04:28 AM »
I agree with most of what XTM says.

However, I don't think it's fair to say titanium doesn't offer more than steel.  You can tie titanium using knots.  As XTM said, titanium does not kink.  And the most important factor is that it's almost half the diameter of steel per given poundage.  Does this matter with pike and pickerel?  Most days probably not, but some days it might make the difference between a couple hammer handles and a big mama.  It is certainly expensive though.   

From Bass Pro:

Knot 2 Kinky Nickel-Titanium Leader Wire - 25 lbs. - .014''

AFW Surflon Nylon-Coated Leader Wire - 20 lbs. - 024"

Offline river_scum

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #19 on: Jan 13, 2021, 05:02 AM »
about the only way to keep from getting bit off with 4# line is longer hook shank.  even that isn't a guarantee.  if you use light line you will just get bit off. cant pick what fish eats your bait.  at least not yet in the electronics world. close though!  trout guys here have that same problem.  they set there with 2# test after huge gills and wham a trout flies threw and breaks them off.  lol
     
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Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #20 on: Jan 13, 2021, 05:19 AM »
OK. This thread was put to bed in 2019 only to be resurrected by OhhDam in 2021. His concerns are different than the OP and my replies are directed at that.
To fish or not to fish? That's a stupid question!



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Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #21 on: Jan 13, 2021, 05:19 AM »
Actually the AFW product I referred to was their 7 x 7 (49 strand) Surflon Micro Supreme. Certainly it is pricier than the 1 x 7 basic Surflon product but it is much thinner, .015", even more flexible than the 1 x 7,  resists kinking/curling and is also easily tieable with conventional knots. I've also been a big user of the 1 x 7 uncoated wire which is even thinner than Ti is the same pound test (.011" for 20#). Plus is is easy to work with, no special tools necessary and dirt cheap so damaged leaders can simply be swapped out, scavenged for swivel, hook(s) or other hardware and discarded. Here's a look at the connection you can make with uncoated wire, no crimps, just twist/tied:



By comparison Ti is not as flexible and, at least for me, more difficult to get a decent knot into. I only know this because it's been my actual experience in comparing leader materials. My other knock on Ti is it's reliability. One of it's properties is that it stretches, and not just a little, quite a bit. Stretchy metal, try it. It's actually kinda fun. Take a length you'd use for a leader, tie on your terminal stuff, get a good grip (use a tool on the hook end) and pull. It's like a rubber band, well sort of. The issue is every time it stretches the metal fatigues. You can see damage with steel or plastic (mono/fluoro) but not so with Ti. It just stretches over and over and over and at some point... Snap! It breaks without warning. How long does that take in a fishing situation? Can't say for sure but I'm just not willing to risk that.

I know, Ti and fluoro are the latest, greatest, super sexy stuff while steel is old school and pedestrian by comparison. That's just the marketing and I tend to take all that with a grain or more of salt.

This seems to be one of those topics that rages forever. Everyone has their opinions, favorites and beliefs. Seems like wire guys are on the outside a lot but that's just the way it is. I always give the latest, greatest a shot because I don't want to miss any advantage. Thing is, for the most part I usually come back to wire. I'll also not say anyone has to, I just think it's fair to make a reasonable case based on my experiences trying the different options.


To fish or not to fish? That's a stupid question!



“Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality.”― Lewis Carroll

Offline jaeger80

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #22 on: Jan 13, 2021, 05:48 AM »
XTM,  I appreciate your research and I'm always open to cheaper options.  Thanks for some new ideas...

Offline bigvfb

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #23 on: Jan 13, 2021, 07:36 PM »
try 2 lb dia fireline

Offline Fishingjg

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #24 on: Jan 13, 2021, 10:27 PM »
17 lb. fluorocarbon tied to a treble hook works pretty well for pickerel. I really don't have any issues losing fish.

JG

Offline Captn66

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #25 on: Jan 14, 2021, 07:03 AM »
I def think even pike can get line shy.  Was fishing the UP a number of years ago and kept having a problem with bite offs on my tip ups that I had primarily set for walter, but where pike were also known to frequent.  I switched to a wire (albeit not anything like the ones being discussed here recently) thinking - I'll at least get my pike for the day and all of a sudden they turned off.  The owner of the place I was staying at happened down and we were chatting & tell him what's happening - he ends up giving me a couple fluro leaders that he uses for snook when he goes to FL ... I changed things out and started landing fish through the same holes.

Offline JPascavage52

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #26 on: Jan 14, 2021, 07:15 AM »
Eh I don't do as much fishing for pike and pickerel as I did when I started out and used primarily tip ups, but there are times when they can be line shy, especially when I was using steel leaders. When I switched to a heavier fluorocarbon, number of bites definitely seemed to increase. Had a very insignificant number of bite offs, but IMO, it was a small price to pay.
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Offline OhhDam

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #27 on: Jan 14, 2021, 08:25 AM »
Lots of great advise! This is exactly the kind of discussion I needed. You guys are really generous to share the expertise for free. So I'ma go and spend the money on a few of the tried and true methods you all brought up.

Offline XhardwaterX

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #28 on: Jan 14, 2021, 08:37 AM »
XTM, is that a haywire twist? Or what knot do you use? Looks clean.

Offline jaeger80

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Re: Bite Offs
« Reply #29 on: Jan 14, 2021, 08:51 AM »
60lb flouro single hook
30lb titanium single hook
30lb titanium quick strike




 



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