Author Topic: Dead bait presentation (Read 9224 times)

Grizzly1 · « **on:** Dec 13, 2005, 02:12 PM »

How do you like to rig up your dead bait for proper presentation? Does it even matter? I haven't been able to dredge up alot on this topic though some posters have mentioned proper presentation there were no real instructions. If it matters I'll be useing 8"-10"+ herring.

Thanks, Grizz

iceintheveins · « **Reply #1 on:** Dec 13, 2005, 05:48 PM »

I like to try to get baits to hang horizontally. The best rig to use is a quick strike rig that consists of fluorocarbon in the 15 - 30 pound test range. For baits your size I would use #6 trebles and also stick a nail type sinker inside the deadbait.

Water Wolf · « **Reply #2 on:** Dec 13, 2005, 07:37 PM »

Quote from: Mackdaddy21 on Dec 13, 2005, 05:48 PM

I like to try to get baits to hang horizontally. The best rig to use is a quick strike rig that consists of fluorocarbon in the 15 - 30 pound test range. For baits your size I would use #6 trebles and also stick a nail type sinker inside the deadbait.

I am not sure if it matters, but I to perfer the bait to hang horizontally, appearing more life like. I like to use #6 treble hook. I stick one treble between the head and the dorsal fin and the other between the dorsal fin and the tail. If I am using my own quick-strike rig I usually have a bead or two above the treble hook for some color, I then add a rubber core weight above it to help sink the bait. I use both wire and fluorocarbon, if the water is clear, there are walleye present and the pike seem finicky I go with fluorocarbon, but if it is a bit dingy or there are monster pike present, I feel safer with a thin invisa-leader made by southbend. As steel leaders go it is hard to see.

P.S
Be sure to check the regulations in your area as to the number of hooks you can have on one line. You may have to cut one hook off the trebles to comply.

WW

iceintheveins · « **Reply #3 on:** Dec 13, 2005, 10:08 PM »

Quote from: Water Wolf on Dec 13, 2005, 07:37 PM

I am not sure if it matters, but I to perfer the bait to hang horizontally, appearing more life like. I like to use #6 treble hook. I stick one treble between the head and the dorsal fin and the other between the dorsal fin and the tail. If I am using my own quick-strike rig I usually have a bead or two above the treble hook for some color, I then add a rubber core weight above it to help sink the bait. I use both wire and fluorocarbon, if the water is clear, there are walleye present and the pike seem finicky I go with fluorocarbon, but if it is a bit dingy or there are monster pike present, I feel safer with a thin invisa-leader made by southbend. As steel leaders go it is hard to see.

P.S
Be sure to check the regulations in your area as to the number of hooks you can have on one line. You may have to cut one hook off the trebles to comply.

WW

The invisa leader is good stuff if the water is murky or your using very fast presentations such as trolling during open water. I have one lake that is occasionally murky for pike and the other is stained. The pike are less leader shy in those lakes.

grumpymoe · « **Reply #4 on:** Dec 13, 2005, 10:15 PM »

The invisa leader is good stuff if the water is murky or your using very fast presentations such as trolling during open water...what the he two sticks does this have to do with Hardwater....geez....

Barleydog · « **Reply #5 on:** Dec 14, 2005, 10:11 PM »

Great write up WW! I like your tactics. Interesting ways to rig a deadbait.
I use mostly single hooks that are balanced below the dorsal fin. I hook the bait once and bring it back through the opposite side, (better for balance.) FLourocarb leader, and Sevenstrand are my favorites leaders. If your using the larger lable herring, try the quick strike rigs. Not my favorite due to higher mortality rate, but effective!

Grizzly1 · « **Reply #6 on:** Dec 15, 2005, 01:33 AM »

Thanks for sharing your methods guys, great!

Has anyone heard of wrapping the hook shank with lead (the kind that comes in match book, I buy it for fly fishing) to help sink the bait?

I think I'll try Water Wolf's way out first. How far is your sinker from the hook?

Barleydog, I use to use your method in Minnesota but think the bait was too big for just 1 hook, I'd get lotsa hits but few hook-ups. If I use smaller bait I'll probaly go to the single 1 hook rig again.

Thank You all again-Grizz

Tip-Up · « **Reply #7 on:** Dec 15, 2005, 07:49 PM »

Please don't put anything (nail, etc.) inside your bait that would kill a pike if ingested.

I hang my baits horizontal.

Water Wolf · « **Reply #8 on:** Dec 15, 2005, 09:16 PM »

Thank you Barleydog and Grizzly1.

Here is a photo of the way I make my quick-strike rigs.

WW

Grizzly1 · « **Reply #9 on:** Dec 16, 2005, 12:27 AM »

Tip-Up, Thanks for your reply and rest assured I won't be putting any nails, shrapnel or the like in any of my bait, just big hooks

, never heard of that practice before coming to this site. How do you rig your bait to get it to hang horizontal?

Water Wolf, Thanks for taking the time to post your photo-very nice rig.

-Grizz

Tip-Up · « **Reply #10 on:** Dec 17, 2005, 08:51 PM »

Grizz - I make my own quickstrikes like so.......

I put the bottom treble in behind the bait's head and the sliding treble goes in around the dorsal (wherever it takes to get the bait to sit horizontally). I use no weight. If the bait will not sink I puncture and squeeze air out from air bladder.

Hope this helps.

coldbum · « **Reply #11 on:** Dec 18, 2005, 06:14 AM »

Tip-up thats a beauty quick strike

gonna put some of those together and givem a try

Barleydog · « **Reply #12 on:** Dec 18, 2005, 12:39 PM »

Nice picture Tip-up. When I tie them, they look IDENTICAL to yours. I do one other modification that seems to help. The top hook the "slides" I place an oversized crimp where it would hook into my bait. This holds both hooks in place.

billybono · « **Reply #13 on:** Dec 18, 2005, 02:19 PM »

Quote from: Tip-Up on Dec 17, 2005, 08:51 PM

Grizz - I make my own quickstrikes like so.......

(Image removed from quote.)

I put the bottom treble in behind the bait's head and the sliding treble goes in around the dorsal (wherever it takes to get the bait to sit horizontally). I use no weight. If the bait will not sink I puncture and squeeze air out from air bladder.

Hope this helps.

steel huh tip up? i used steel for the first time last year and noticed a severe reduction in flags....your thoughts?

billybono

Tip-Up · « **Reply #14 on:** Dec 18, 2005, 02:55 PM »

billybono -

Can't really say as all I've ever used is steel. I keep the steel relatively short and use a 3' heavy mono leader between the quickstrike and dacron main line. I have noticed the mono leader improved flag #'s.

Having said that, our lakes are very clear and I'd probably try floro if I could get my hands on some but it would have to be very heavy, like +80#. Not easy stuff to find up here in the "boonies".

Grizzly1 · « **Reply #15 on:** Dec 18, 2005, 05:00 PM »

Tip-up, Thank You for the excellent photo of your rig as well as your explanation of your hook placement. May everyone who shared their expertise on this thread catch a 40"er

.

I just bought some 50lb fluoro and man is it a bugger to tie knots with-won't cinch up very good-I'll try different knots or stick with the wire.

-Grizz

iceintheveins · « **Reply #16 on:** Dec 18, 2005, 08:37 PM »

Quote from: Grizzly1 on Dec 18, 2005, 05:00 PM

Tip-up, Thank You for the excellent photo of your rig as well as your explanation of your hook placement. May everyone who shared their expertise on this thread catch a 40"er .

I just bought some 50lb fluoro and man is it a bugger to tie knots with-won't cinch up very good-I'll try different knots or stick with the wire.

-Grizz

Try 15 - 30 pound test. Twenty is ideal. Had only one bite off last year and that was with 12 pound fluoro. Caught 7 pike one the tip up that had the 12 pound and had just the one bite off from a small fish.

Bo · « **Reply #17 on:** Dec 19, 2005, 09:54 AM »

I am new to fishing tip-ups for pike. Last year I just caught them on pickerel rigs with regular salted shiners ("minnows"). I probably could have landed more of my "bites" and "nibbles" if I had been fishing with tip-ups and letting the fish run with the bait without feeling any resistance from a high-drag rod and reel and a heavy weight on the bottom. So now I am trying tip-ups.

So, does anybody think that the position of the bait on a treble or a QS rig make any difference... whether the bait is hanging vertically (as it would normally do on a standard QS rig) or horizontally (as it might on a custom made QS rig or a single hook or treble)? I really don't know if the pike care or not, I guess it depends on whether they are looking for a natural meal or just scavenging for something that smells and gnereally looks like food....

Water Wolf · « **Reply #18 on:** Dec 19, 2005, 01:39 PM »

I am not really sure myself, I always like to have my bait hang horizontal so they look as natural as can be to some of the more fussy pike in the pond.
A person would know by hanging equal number of horizontal and vertical bait and then taking note how many hits each setup gets.

WW

GAMBELL · « **Reply #19 on:** Dec 23, 2005, 07:14 PM »

Try 40lb. Seagar Florocarbon. You can get it at Cabelas.com. It is very pricey but, I think it is the best florocarbon out there.

Grizzly1 · « **Reply #20 on:** Dec 24, 2005, 12:10 AM »

Your not kidding about the price, I think I left a bacon strip in my shorts the first time I saw the price of Fluoro, spendy line

. I'll check it out.

-Grizz

Woodsman · « **Reply #21 on:** Dec 24, 2005, 11:15 AM »

Although I have caught pike with dead bait on quickstrike rigs on or near bottom I have just as good luck or maybe better suspending them about 1' beneath the ice. Set-up on a tip-up that will let the fish free spool the line than back off at least 50'. As for the way the bait hangs I find it does not matter. During daylight the bait will be highlighted against the lighter ice cover. I cover the hole with a piece of lite cardboard ect. with a small slot for the line. Some styles of tip ups that cover the hole do not require the last step.

Good Luck Fishing

Muskie Matt · « **Reply #22 on:** Dec 25, 2005, 11:35 AM »

I've tried everything.....EVERYTH ING! Quick strike rig with 60# floro. Whatever works for you and where you fish. Here in Mass. a 20# is a NICE trophy. Lost one and it will NEVER happen again.

Grizzly1 · « **Reply #23 on:** Dec 25, 2005, 02:02 PM »

Musky Matt,

Thanks for your thoughts. I use 50# mono for my leaders when rigging up for Kenai king salmon and figured I'd use the same only in Fluoro, thing is I can't get the knots to seat well. What knot are you using? In another thread alot of guys are using the Palomar knot, thought I'd give that a try-been busy making up some 7 strand leaders for the "just in case-be on the safe side" scenario. There are some lunker pike around and I'd hate to loose one due to equipment failure-always hate that as it's preventable with a few $$'s and some research.

-Grizz

grumpymoe · « **Reply #24 on:** Dec 25, 2005, 06:52 PM »

different strokes for different folks....so many knots that do so many things....One knot I always use regardless of line type.....the improved clinch knot......for mono under 8lbs....8 twists........superbra ids....3-4......slip it down...never had one let me down.....fusion....4-5 twists......tight as a bug in a rug.....anything of anykind over 10lb test....3-4-5 twists and help it snug......Grump

Grizzly1 · « **Reply #25 on:** Dec 25, 2005, 11:35 PM »

Grump, Great tip-That's my main knot just never tried fewer wraps than 6-well got it to seat alright and gave it a pull test, guess it's off to the testing grounds. I'll be testing both the Fluoro and wire & see how things work.

JMH, In the future, if I stick with the Fluoro I'll probably do exactly what you said to-Thanks for the tip.

-Grizz

1TIGGER · « **Reply #26 on:** Dec 27, 2005, 01:54 PM »

Never tried mono leaders but as for steel like I currently use I always remove the hook clasp and replace it with a split ring . This will allow the hook a little movement and still eliminate straightend clasps or unhooked clasps . The bait I use with this is a 5 or 6 inch smelt with a 6d finish nail in the rear end of the smelt so there is no weight for the fish to see and I always only use one of the three hooks on the treble to hook my bait so there is two hooks exposed to get hooked on and I have had my best luck with the bait horizontal .
GIVE IT A TRY AND GOOD LUCK .... SAFE ICE

1TIGGER · « **Reply #27 on:** Dec 28, 2005, 10:58 AM »

I SEE SOME OF THE VETERAN PIKERS DONT APPROVE OF THE NAILS FOR WEIGHT .
THIS IS THE WAY I WAS TAUGHT AND I DO AGREE WITH YOU THAT THE NAIL COULD DO SOME INTERNAL DAMAGE SO WAHT DO YOU SUGGEST ?
I WAS TOLD NOT TO USE LEAD SPLIT SHOT FOR THE SAME REASON ... THE LEAD ISNT ANY SAFER
SO THE BOTTOM LINE IS WHAT CAN YOU USE SO THAT THE FISH IS RELEASED UNHARMED WITH NO CHANCE OF LEAD POISON AND NO NAILS TO IMPEED DIGESTION YET STILL BE ADDED WEIGHT AND NOT BE VISABLE ?

Water Wolf · « **Reply #28 on:** Dec 29, 2005, 02:03 PM »

JHM I have used a number of sizes on my rigs but found the smaller ones to be better, like #6. It takes less force for a smaller hook penetrate than a larger one, kind of like poking a needle or nail into leather, a needle is way easier to shove in than a nail.

TIGGER. if you use dead bait you could try just centerpunching it with a treble hook, as long as you pop the swimbladder it will slowly sink. If you are using live bait you could try some of the non-poisonous splitshot a bit up the line. Or you could use heavy plastic beads for weight, they would also add as an attractor.

WW

1TIGGER · « **Reply #29 on:** Dec 30, 2005, 08:00 AM »

WATER WOLF THANKS FOR THE SWIM BLADDER TIP ILL TRY IT THIS WEEKEND IF WE HAVE SAFE ICE

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Author Topic: Dead bait presentation (Read 9224 times)

grumpymoe

billybono

grumpymoe