Lowering MT channel catfish limits up for comment

[doublehaul]

Currently the limit on channel catfish in Montana (my home state) is set at 20.  I'm sure you all have you're own opinions on regulations in WY and in MT, but if you're interested here's a couple of links on how to submit your official comment to MTFWP. If enough people write a comment letter in support to adopt a lowered creel limit this will turn into a proposal, which in turn will be up for vote at the state level. Please take some time to read through the thread links below.
http://montanacats.yuku.com/topic/1870/Changes--Catfish-Limits-Comment-period-open--COMMENT---want

http://montanacats.yuku.com/topic/1590/Bag-Possession-limits-on-Montana-Channel-Catfish

Thanks,
DH

[Zoo Angler]

whatev leeve the limits alone sounds like you don't like seeing guys taking "yur" fish out of the river. i fished the missuri river from great falls to fort poeck for 40 years BIG strecthc of water have no pro\blem finding big cats lots of water no fisherman. whats next you want to outline setlines? maybe we shpould limit catfishing to flies only?

I would bet what you consider big is not the same as what Doublehaul and myself consider big. This is not about people taking "your" fish, it's about making the Channel Catfish a legitimate gamefish. With say a smaller legal limit set in place, in time the amount of larger trophy class Channel Catfish will increase making it a prized gamefish for all anglers.

[doublehaul]

whatev leeve the limits alone sounds like you don't like seeing guys taking "yur" fish out of the river. i fished the missuri river from great falls to fort poeck for 40 years BIG strecthc of water have no pro\blem finding big cats lots of water no fisherman. whats next you want to outline setlines? maybe we shpould limit catfishing to flies only?

Well I guess if you don't want to click on the link and share your thoughts you don't have to. I just thought I'd share the information. Thanks for your informative response, we all appreciate a well thought out discussion. Tight lines.

[Aaron072]

Well I guess if you don't want to click on the link and share your thoughts you don't have to. I just thought I'd share the information. Thanks for your informative response, we all appreciate a well thought out discussion. Tight lines.

I dnt thnk he rds vry well

[JayHelfrich]

We aren't asking for them to be put on the endangered species list.  We just want responsible management of our native catfish species.  20 fish is a lot with the average size of a channel cat.  We would also like to see a slot limit on the larger cats.  We don't want to keep anyone from catching and keeping a trophy cat, but is keeping 5 catfish over 5 or 6 pound really necessary?  Those bigger fish taste like **** (even when they are harvested when the water is cold.)  The smaller fish, less than 4 pounds, are much better eating and much more abundant in all systems.  Our goal is to protect the large breeders from over harvest and to keep our native catfish in an abundance that will allow for responsible harvest for years to come.

Jay

[DLakermovedWest]

We aren't asking for them to be put on the endangered species list.  We just want responsible management of our native catfish species.  20 fish is a lot with the average size of a channel cat.  We would also like to see a slot limit on the larger cats.  We don't want to keep anyone from catching and keeping a trophy cat, but is keeping 5 catfish over 5 or 6 pound really necessary?  Those bigger fish taste like **** (even when they are harvested when the water is cold.)  The smaller fish, less than 4 pounds, are much better eating and much more abundant in all systems.  Our goal is to protect the large breeders from over harvest and to keep our native catfish in an abundance that will allow for responsible harvest for years to come.

Jay

Not a catfisherman myself (I am considering a June trip to the Shell to try it) , but instituting regs that promote the average size while protecting the spawning population of any wild self sustaining species should be supported by all sportsmen. This sort of leads us to the vocal minority group in Billings going off on the FWP putting a slot limit on the browns in the Yellowstone. **censored** is wrong people? If you want to keep some trout, keep the eaters or fish a stocked pond for Christ's sake rather than demand the right to rape the egg layers that sustain the wild population. We catch the same big browns in the same place several times a seasons on the Stone providing a thrill for more than a few anglers per fish. The same goes to for trophy cats I suspect. It certainly goes for walleyes.

[Whatpole]

We aren't asking for them to be put on the endangered species list.  We just want responsible management of our native catfish species.  20 fish is a lot with the average size of a channel cat.  We would also like to see a slot limit on the larger cats.  We don't want to keep anyone from catching and keeping a trophy cat, but is keeping 5 catfish over 5 or 6 pound really necessary?  Those bigger fish taste like **** (even when they are harvested when the water is cold.)  The smaller fish, less than 4 pounds, are much better eating and much more abundant in all systems.  Our goal is to protect the large breeders from over harvest and to keep our native catfish in an abundance that will allow for responsible harvest for years to come.

Jay

Maybe you are cooking them wrong.

I feel more study needs to be done on each individual body of water. The lower Yellowstone may have a diffrent density population than the Missouri, which may be diffrent than the Musselshell, which maybe diffrent than the Toungue River. A blanket regulation for all of eastern MTsounds pretty ignorant to me.

[missoulafish]

Nice work DH on trying to do the RIGHT thing! As usual, you run into the same crap.

[Bullelk34]

I don't fish for cats myself either, but I have in the past. Personally I would support a slot limit, though not a creel reduction. I know a few guys from here that make an annual trip east just for cats, they really enjoy keeping a pile of them for a few fish fry's.  All a creel limit would do is exclude them from making a trip. I think the population is healthy from what I've heard, and I doubt you could fish them out. Is there really a problem of overharvest? I just can't see there being much pressure on them. I could be wrong though-

[doublehaul]

I don't fish for cats myself either, but I have in the past. Personally I would support a slot limit, though not a creel reduction. I know a few guys from here that make an annual trip east just for cats, they really enjoy keeping a pile of them for a few fish fry's.  All a creel limit would do is exclude them from making a trip. I think the population is healthy from what I've heard, and I doubt you could fish them out. Is there really a problem of overharvest? I just can't see there being much pressure on them. I could be wrong though-

The problem is overharvest. That's why it's up for public comment. This wouldn't stop anyone from making the trip, only would limit the # of  20-30 year old cats taken out of the ecosystem. Take it for what it is fellas. I'm just sharing the information and some FWP recent news.

[DLakermovedWest]

A topic we all should be aware of. Thanks.

[fishin247]

So not trying to hijack the thread, but just a quick question: jay you brought up that the big ones don't taste so great. If I'm a gig fan of the catfish that you get in a restaurant, what species of cats and what size should I catch to get a similar tasting fish. I know the ones that you get at a retaurant are farm raised.

[JayHelfrich]

The most catfish most commonly farm raised is the channel catfish.  Most farm raised catfish are harvested at a size of 1-2 pounds.  I kept 4 channel catfish from our Yellowstone trip last year in April, a 2#, a 4#, and two 8# fish that were gut hooked (while using circle hooks).  The two big fish were muddy tasting and soft.  The 2 smaller ones were firm and very clean tasting.  I kept all 4 fish on ice from the time they were caught until they were filleted.  I will never keep a large cat again.  If I have a true trophy fish I will get a reproduction mount made and let it live.

Jay

[Zoo Angler]

I am guessing your jibberish is referring to me. You wanna know how many pike I kept vs how many I let go to reproduce...  Out of roughly 200 - 250 or more caught only about 3% of the pike I caught this season were kept by not only myself but others that I brought along that wanted to try how it tasted. And by "try" I mean they took one fish (that might be 3 or 4 lbs) home and threw back the rest. And yes I kept 1 pike over 5 lbs this season, seeing how I caught a fish of lifetime and I am perfectly entitled to keeping ONE trophy fish after how much time and effort I put in this season. So let's do the math here - If I let 2 ppl take home a pike from the 3% total harvest what does that give you? I'll let you ponder awhile on that brain buster.  

And who said anything about 8 lbs being big for a cat? No one! Jay was simply referring to his fish in relation to eachother and how an eight pound cat is big when talking about eater size catfish.

All you do is complain on here and ask where the fishing is doing well. Did you even go fishing this ice season? I don't see one fishing report from you since you started here. Stop bothering ppl and maybe add some insight from your "50 years of fishing experience" to your posts.

Sorry everyone for the hijacking but I couldn't hold it in.

[JayHelfrich]

Hey Zoo,

We will have to hook up and go fishing some time.  I really enjoyed fishing with your brother last year but he lives so far way!  I am going to see it there is a function on this board to put the great speller on ignore.  Would make my viewing experience much more pleasurable.  I hate trying to figure that stuff out in a text message let alone a chat board!

Jay

[Aaron072]

All you do is complain on here and ask where the fishing is doing well. Did you even go fishing this ice season? I don't see one fishing report from you since you started here. Stop bothering ppl and maybe add some insight from your "50 years of fishing experience" to your posts.

Sorry everyone for the hijacking but I couldn't hold it in.

I bet if he did it would have corn in the post

[bah]

i like pike as much as the next guy, and i'm no fish expert, but i can only imagine how many fish (including smaller pike) that pike has to eat to get that big. congrats zoo. p.s. what did you do to the background on your pic of the pike.

[iceholer]

wow from catfish to pike to corn and back to pike now back to cats them 20 plus pounders taste like crap but you wont find a better fight out of a similar sized fish in my opinion let em go let em grow eat the corn 

[Zoo Angler]

Jay - I'm down for a summer fishing assault. PM me whenever and I'll see if we cant meet up or vise versa.

bah - I just edited my pic with spirals in photobucket.com then copied the IMG format into a post in the forum.

To all - Those big ones like creamed corn better than regular,I've heard. They say putting it in a nylon ball for big cats works the best (it savors the flavor ya know). I might try it.     But in all seriousness (back to the topic at hand), I voiced my opinion for lowering the catfish limit to 5 per day. I feel that is plenty of fish for any fisherman to eat. 20 is just ridiculous for any species other than maybe perch.

[BackCountry Kyle]

As much as I like fishing, catching, keeping, and eatin', I am still a sportsman. Being a sportsman also means being a steward of the land and its resources. Its not about which size eat best or how much fun catching and keeping a pile of fish is, or the really good time we have at that annual catfish fry where everyone eats and drinks to much and still takes home a big plate of leftover fish.... its about managing a balance between man and nature. I don't entirely trust the FWP to do that themselves either. Thats why it is important to voice your opinion when you get the opportunity (and I'm not talking about in this thread). People will still fish for cats and with the right regs future generations can have this debate, with a still healthy channel cat poulation. Even if the limit was cut in half, its a move in the right direction. Just my opinion....

Kyle

[Zoo Angler]

Nice post Kyle. Be sure to follow the links to the FWP comment page and submit basically what you just said under the appropiate comment box.

[doublehaul]

As much as I like fishing, catching, keeping, and eatin', I am still a sportsman. Being a sportsman also means being a steward of the land and its resources. Its not about which size eat best or how much fun catching and keeping a pile of fish is, or the really good time we have at that annual catfish fry where everyone eats and drinks to much and still takes home a big plate of leftover fish.... its about managing a balance between man and nature. I don't entirely trust the FWP to do that themselves either. Thats why it is important to voice your opinion when you get the opportunity (and I'm not talking about in this thread). People will still fish for cats and with the right regs future generations can have this debate, with a still healthy channel cat poulation. Even if the limit was cut in half, its a move in the right direction. Just my opinion....

Kyle

The voice of reason prevails. Thank you for taking the time to post kirkwoodKyle. Your input is well thought out and logical, I commend you for that.

[eyefinder]

Why anyone would have the need to take 20 cats home at one time is beyond me. I see it once in a while where a friend is taking home lots and lots of fish, and basically what you end up with after time is a bunch of freezer rotted fish fillets.

I'm all for keeping some fish to eat, but 20 is way more than anyone needs to take home. I for one think about this all the time, seeing I have 3 kids that love to fish, and thinking about there future and there kids.

[DLakermovedWest]

OKEY DOKEY

my point is for all of those 250 pike you caught  how many were dinks? 249.

how many were big? 1

seems like a extreamley skewed size structure...you killed the one fish that could have done the most for reproduction how sporting of you

Dude...re-read what he wrote please. He said that they kept one big fish and only about 3% of all the fish caught, not that only one was a trophy pike.

[DLakermovedWest]

Why anyone would have the need to take 20 cats home at one time is beyond me. I see it once in a while where a friend is taking home lots and lots of fish, and basically what you end up with after time is a bunch of freezer rotted fish fillets.

I'm all for keeping some fish to eat, but 20 is way more than anyone needs to take home. I for one think about this all the time, seeing I have 3 kids that love to fish, and thinking about there future and there kids.

Not only that but the possesion limit currently is also 20 catfish.

The proposal is all about protection of the resource, I'm amazed that 'sportsmen' even argue the point. It's not as though some FWP biologist is out to screw anyone..quite the contrary.

[missoulafish]

DL..you said "I am amazed that sportsmen even argue this point"...me too as well as Zoo, DH and Kyle. There are a few other people that feel the same way but any time you mention it on this board you are almost guaranteed to get gang raped by ignorance. Thanks for posting dude:)

[DLakermovedWest]

Perhaps, but I've been through the wars before. Nothing wrong with keeping a few fish to eat, but just as a rancher won't slaughter his best producing cows for meat we should not be killing the spawning fish IMO.

Guys that go fishing simply for food may want to do the math and realize that buying lobster(or even walleye @ 16 bucks a pound) at Albertson's is cheaper just as chicken is always cheaper than pheasant.

Certainly there is a self imposed trend within the icefishing community to let the big mama walleyes and pike go, just as there certainly is with trout in the fly fishing world. We have seen tangable results in better fishing almost right away when this happens. This sort of thinking is spreading to other fish as well finally thank God.

Bring on the 'gang rapers', their arguments are simple to to put to bed...greed and selfishness never stand up to reasoned conservation practices. Sportsmen always put the resource first, as does FWP...which is what we pay them to do.

[BackCountry Kyle]

It's not as though some FWP biologist is out to screw anyone..quite the contrary.

[Sportsmen always put the resource first, as does FWP...which is what we pay them to do.

DL-I'm not sure if these comments are meant for me,..to ease my mind about FWP.. But I think I should just say that my concerns aren't about FWP intentions, more like their execution. It has happened with elk and it can and probably has happened with fish. I'm not anti-FWP. I believe they do a great job for the most part. Its just that sometimes politics and bureaucrats get involved and things don't always end like they start. I have people that I consider friends working for fish and game. They are good people, they love the state, but we're not signing their checks, we just make deposits into that account. We really don't have much say other than public comment sessions, thats the only point I was trying to make. Sorry if this is off-base, just wanted to clear the air.

Kyle

[doublehaul]

Here is a short section of the comment letter I'm working on for the MTFWP. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Catfish migration is one aspect the MTFWP needs to take into account when making the decision to lower channel catfish limits. During peak spawning periods channel catfish migrate into smaller, easily accessible feeder creeks to find suitable spawning habitat. This yearly migration leads to easily accessible fishing in addition to dense fish populations. These dense, sexually mature fish populations are often pursued and targeted as table fare for their large fillets.

In many cases subsistence fishermen jump at the opportunity to catch and fillet 20 trophy class game fish. These so-called subsistence fishermen are making a negative impact on the overall biomass of the middle Missouri system. If the Montana catfish limit was lowered, the average fishermen would no longer have the opportunity to extract 20 trophy class fish from a population of sexually mature catfish.

A lower limit would increase the number of holdover cats exceeding 20 pounds in addition to creating diversity among native gamefish. This increase in larger, sexually mature fish could potentially lead to managing the middle Missouri system as a trophy catfishery.  This simple request to lower limits could potentially generate income for the state through tourism, tournaments, and increased diversity among the trophy fish that reside in Fort Peck Reservoir.

 

Listed below is text from a Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks study titled Musselshell River Study. The listed information (figure 14 Pgs. 20-21) is titled-Movement of Channel Catfish in the middle  Missouri River Study into the Musselshell river during the inventory period from October 1977 through August 1981 (Berg 1981 and Pers. Comm.)

This study goes on to state (referring to fish migration) “Includes 33 miles traveled in Fort Peck Reservoir from Turkey Joes release site”

This study also goes on to note the following fish recaptures

“Fish captured 10.3 miles up Box Elder Creek and 17.6 miles up Flat Willow Creek.”

 

Out of a total 31 fish tagged and recaptured:

-5 fish traveled over 200 miles in search of suitable spawning grounds.

-1 fish traveled 146 miles.

-And the remaining 25 fish all traveled between 34-82 miles in search of spawning habitat.

 

The conclusion paragraph on this study makes reference to the biodiversity and greater area affected by overharvest if MTFWP continues to allow such liberal catfish limits. Fish biologists were aware of this in 1981 and were recommending continued studies be conducted on the middle Missouri ecosystem.

“A significant movement pattern for channel catfish exists between the lower Missouri and the Musselshell River. Thirty one channel catfish tagged at Turkey Joes have been recaptured at various locations in the Musselshell River drainage from May 1978 to September 19812  (table 14).  Five Catfish were recaptured below the Musselshell diversion dam, approximately 171 river miles from the mouth of the Musselshell RiverOne channel catfish had even traveled up Flatwillow and Box Elder Creeks. These movements apparently reflect a seasonal spawning migration. The magnitude of this migration and its importance to the importance of Fort Peck Reservoir and the Middle Missour is unknown. It is  obvious however that decisions affecting management of the Musselshell River drainage will potentially impact a much wider area. Concern should be directed at maintaining the present status of this spawning migration and obtaining a better understanding of the Missour River system.”

[rambo51]

whoa douuble haul u r really good at figuring things out. maybe u should pursue a carreer as a staet fisherys bilogist. if that is a short sectiopn of ur letter i pity the poor guy who has to read yur book report.

dude learn how to spell