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New Hampshire => Ice Fishing New Hampshire => Topic started by: SmellsLikeFishNH on Mar 07, 2011, 09:25 AM
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STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE
Inter-Department Communication
TO: All Conservation Officers
All Deputy Conservation Officers
Conservation Officer Trainees
Law Enforcement Office Staff
Dispatcher Kristen Ritz
Sandy Falicon
Susan Perry
Jamie Belrose
FROM: Captain John B. Wimsatt
SUBJECT: Tracked ATV Discussion
The purpose of this memorandum is to clarify the position of the Law Enforcement Division related to the operation of Tracked ATV's and ensure that all officers and staff are consistent with how these questions are answered and how situations are enforced. Many of you have received calls or encountered Tracked ATV's in the field. A Tracked ATV is a typical 4-wheeled ATV that has had the tires and rims removed and replaced with 4 individual belted tracks and in some cases two tracks on the rear wheels and two skis up front. I have had several discussions with Bureau of Trails staff, NHFG licensing staff, NHSA and the County Directors to garner their input. All organizations involved continue to receive calls from the public regarding where these machines can operate.
Based upon the need to ensure that we respect landowner's wishes, a review of the applicable definitions, laws, rules and related follow up discussions, the Law Enforcement Division's position on this issue is as follows:
A Tracked ATV can only operate on trails approved/open to winter ATV use. If they wish to operate on other snowmobile trails they can only do so with written landowner permission.
We must be cognizant of landowners that granted approval for a snowmobile trail but did not authorize ATV's. We do not want to blindside any landowners who may not want these tracked machines on their land. As an example, PSNH does not allow ATV's or Tracked ATV's to operate on their land. (They don't allow snowmobile clubs to use them for maintenance or grooming either) We have at least two other reports of landowners who will close their land if Tracked ATV's were allowed.
We are not allowing a Tracked ATV to register as a "snowmobile" with a "snowmobile registration" (we recognize that some of these machines do meet the definition of a snowmobile). We will continue to register an ATV with an ATV/Other registration to ensure proper accounting in our licensing office and continue with our long standing practice of registering a vehicle for its originally manufactured purpose.
In many cases, a Tracked ATV does meet the statutory definition of a "snowmobile" but to allow them to register as a snowmobile would infer that operation on snowmobile trails is authorized. This is not so.
Most DRED properties that have maintained snowmobile trails allow winter ATV use on snowpack (Pawtuckaway, etc). Therefore, Tracked ATV's are legal.
NHFG WMA's with approved snowmobile trails will allow Tracked ATV's on snowpack.
Most of the DRED operated rail trails that are funded with federal dollars do not allow for summer or winter ATV use. Therefore, Tracked ATV's are illegal. If you are not sure about the rail trail in your patrol area, contact the Bureau of Trails or call me and I will get clarification.
Many paper company lands in northern NH have lease agreements with DRED. These lands do allow for ATV use in the contract language. Therefore, Tracked ATV's are legal.
We are reviewing landowner issues and what regulatory changes would be needed to appropriately account for their use on the snowmobile trails (ie. paying the additional fee associated with the snowmobile registration.) If and when the decision is made to address their use on snowmobile trails.
Registered Tracked ATV's can operate on frozen public water bodies.
In closing, the purpose of this memorandum is to get the word out to all conservation officers and staff that encounter these Tracked ATV issues to ensure consistency and accuracy of information. Conservation Officers and other law enforcement officers are asked to use a great deal discretion when encountering tracked ATV's on the trail. Many of these operators have been given conflicting information from a variety of sources. I ask that you document the contact with a written warning so that we can keep a track record. This will also provide for an operator history in the event of repeat offenses.
Thank you in advance for your attention to this matter.
I found this on Craigslist this morning....
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I wouldn't expect any less from our wonder & incredibly bright F&G Department :-\
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The clubs were probably crabbin off about these machines. They don't get any reg money from an atv. What a joke!!!!!!! It's not about enjoyment of the trails, it's about $$$$$$MONEY$$$$$$$. Geez, when does it end? If you can't tell, I have a huge problem with the snowmobile trail system and how the business end is run
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The clubs were probably crabbin off about these machines. They don't get any reg money from an atv. What a joke!!!!!!! It's not about enjoyment of the trails, it's about $$$$$$MONEY$$$$$$$. Geez, when does it end? If you can't tell, I have a huge problem with the snowmobile trail system and how the business end is run
I agree 100% what BS exactly why we traded my 4wheeler for my starcraft cant use the wheeler anywhere
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Absolute Garbage!
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Well coming from a good source on the topic, Captain John B. Wimsatt can write all the letters he wants to but until it's made into a law, they can't do crap except give someone a hard time about it. There is NO legislation on the books keeping ATV with tracks off the trails. As of right now, all the signs & laws are for "wheeled vehicles"
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The snowmobile club I belong to has 4 tracked wheelers that they groom with...
Unfriginbelievable
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Total BS. What is the difference? Just because of the registration you cant ride them on the trails? To me there is no difference at all. Honestly if I was a landowner I wouldn't have a problem with ATV's with tracks going through. Think about the noise difference between the 2. I dont have a problem with sleds at all but ATV's are quieter than most sleds theses days. Just my 2 cents.
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The tracked wheelers CAN run on any snowmobile trail a regular ATV can run on. Basically, if the trail is marked "no wheeled vehicles", the ATV can't go on it, regardless if it is wheeled or tracks. I think the purpose of the letter was to make sure that everyone knows that an ATV w/ tracks is still an ATV, not a snowmobile.
That being said, I still think we ATV'ers are getting boned.
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The clubs were probably crabbin off about these machines. They don't get any reg money from an atv. What a joke!!!!!!! It's not about enjoyment of the trails, it's about $$$$$$MONEY$$$$$$$. Geez, when does it end? If you can't tell, I have a huge problem with the snowmobile trail system and how the business end is run
I agree it's always about money with the F/G. Little men in green suits, jumping out from
behind trees and sticking a radar gun in your face. It's just a money maker.
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I agree it's always about money with the F/G. Little men in green suits, jumping out from
behind trees and sticking a radar gun in your face. It's just a money maker.
plenty of little man's disease out here as well. >:( >:(
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We are not allowing a Tracked ATV to register as a "snowmobile" with a "snowmobile registration" (we recognize that some of these machines do meet the definition of a snowmobile).
This is priceless! So they basically decided that some vehicles that meet the definition of X cannot be registered as X. And they have the power to decide this how?
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everything will b fine when they make us pay for a snowmobile registration on a quad. so stupid these machines r only going to good to the trai :%$#!: :%$#!:l there obviously like groomers
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thanks TODD
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thanks TODD
Which Todd are you talking about and why are you directing this toward one person? I am sure there have been many issued throughout the entire state, not just one particular area!
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with that being said then anything other than a sled cant be used on the trails. so every groomer that isnt a sled is not allowed. groomers arent sleds they are tracked vehicles, not registered as sleds. its all contradicting if you ask me. its all about the al mighty bottom dollar. f&g get more money for less time from sleds than from atvs and dirtbikes. i ride them all and dont register in NH (other than my antique sled for fishing), keep my dirt bike on privite land and go to maine to ride. maine dosent eve rquire ohrv for dirt bikes that are street legal. Sorry NH you are loossing out on alot of revenue from people like me.
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todds my bud he said this was gonna happen ;)
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It was nice of them to clarify their position: you can ride here, but not there; they are legal under this qualification, but not that; this machine can be used but not that one......... get it? got it? good ::) ???
At least in Me., if you are willing to reg. it as both, you can ride where ever(on any trail) you want. cha-CHING!!!
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The regulation of snowmobiling and outdoor recreation has reached a point where I said enough is enough. I have not touched my tilts in fifteen years until this season. The fun (for me) has been sucked out of snowmobiling. I have poured money into the sport and watched its popularity grow to the point that its turned into a money and liability sport. plain and simply too regulated for my taste also too crowded. I will get another sled but it will be used to haul the gear onto the lakes and ponds where my son and our ladies can have a quite day outdoors enjoying what N.H. has to offer. great to be back by the way.
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As a person with no horse in this race (I own neither an ATV for a snowmobile), I probably shouldn't chime in but am going to anyhow.
My main point is that most snowmobile trails cross private land at the acceptance of the private land owner. As such, the private land owners wishes MUST be considered and respected or they will just close the land for everyone. Private land owners realize that ATVs can and do cause more damage than sleds which is the purpose for the wheeled ATV restriction...it's not a revenue driven decision. Ultimately Fish and Game relies on private land owners for most of their recreation-rich open land...if the land owners become unhappy, that land disappears for the public and that does a service to nobody (see the pheasant stocking program in southern NH over the past 10 years). I like that F&G is senstive to those land owners.
The snow mobile clubs should have no impact on these decisions as they "have a horse in the race". Sure they put the effort into trail establishment and maintenance but ATV registrations help pay for this access so they should sit quietly while F&G works with land owners. Trail Groomers are not recreational vehicles and thus should be considered differently than ATVs even if they are ATVs. These vehicles and those driving them should be given exemption only when properly certified and should be specially registered as some type of commercial vehicle.
People angry that they bought ATVs and now find that they don't have the access they THOUGHT they should have only have themselves to blame. The laws about ATV use on private land have been in place for some time. Even though I don't own one, I know the law and each of you should be aware of laws regarding your vehicle before you buy it. Given access restrictions, a sled is almost always the right choice the way the laws are written now. If you don't like it, well that's why we elect our law makers.....get active in the political process.
Other than that, I have no feelings on the matter...lol - come on spring!!!
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If you are willing to buy the the tracks to put on a wheeler, then it should be allowed. They are not cheap, and they work like a snowmachine track. The nice thing about a wheeler is that they can be used year round. I certainly don't have the money to put into a machine that on a good year might be used for three months....
CJ
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As a person with no horse in this race (I own neither an ATV for a snowmobile), I probably shouldn't chime in but am going to anyhow.
My main point is that most snowmobile trails cross private land at the acceptance of the private land owner. As such, the private land owners wishes MUST be considered and respected or they will just close the land for everyone. Private land owners realize that ATVs can and do cause more damage than sleds which is the purpose for the wheeled ATV restriction...it's not a revenue driven decision. Ultimately Fish and Game relies on private land owners for most of their recreation-rich open land...if the land owners become unhappy, that land disappears for the public and that does a service to nobody (see the pheasant stocking program in southern NH over the past 10 years). I like that F&G is senstive to those land owners.
The snow mobile clubs should have no impact on these decisions as they "have a horse in the race". Sure they put the effort into trail establishment and maintenance but ATV registrations help pay for this access so they should sit quietly while F&G works with land owners. Trail Groomers are not recreational vehicles and thus should be considered differently than ATVs even if they are ATVs. These vehicles and those driving them should be given exemption only when properly certified and should be specially registered as some type of commercial vehicle.
People angry that they bought ATVs and now find that they don't have the access they THOUGHT they should have only have themselves to blame. The laws about ATV use on private land have been in place for some time. Even though I don't own one, I know the law and each of you should be aware of laws regarding your vehicle before you buy it. Given access restrictions, a sled is almost always the right choice the way the laws are written now. If you don't like it, well that's why we elect our law makers.....get active in the political process.
Other than that, I have no feelings on the matter...lol - come on spring!!!
Well Said!
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in fairness to the snowmobile clubs, Private landowners are approached by the local snowmobile clubs for permission to cut or use a existing trail with the land owners blessings. The land owner is protected from liability with insurance purchased by the new Hampshire snowmobile association. club dues and money generated by the new Hampshire snowmobile association are what pays the insurance premium. N.H.S.A. has no interest in being accountable for the liability risks of atv riders and or damages caused by them. The insurance covers the land owner from Dec. 15th to sometime in late march or early April. I am not bashing atv/snowmobile or land owners. just reporting the facts............
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Well coming from a good source on the topic, Captain John B. Wimsatt can write all the letters he wants to but until it's made into a law, they can't do crap except give someone a hard time about it. There is NO legislation on the books keeping ATV with tracks off the trails. As of right now, all the signs & laws are for "wheeled vehicles"
I agree with the above quote. I can't believe that you guys just cowtow to the elite. the guys go out and buy the track sysems for their ATV's to conform to the existing laws. I think you'll find two things, #! it is all about the almighty dollar, and #2 these people that have snowmobiles that want to have an ATV can't afford them so they whine about the people who can afford them. they try to prevent the guys from riding thier ATV on the trails by putting the law about having to require only tracked vehicles, and now that a lot of them get the track systems they are jealous and pee and moan. Well I say Let the cry babies whine. I bet if we handed the cry babies all ATV's with tracks everything would be fine. that is the problem with this whole darn country. the few are telling the many what to do when it should be the the other way around. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!