Quit Waters Iniiative

[RobG]

The lie of the green decoy campaign is that BHA is a liberal front group of phony hunters. BHA is made up of hunters and anglers and they give credit where credit is due, regardless of party. Here is their statement on Zinke's promotion to SOI: http://www.backcountryhunters.org/bha_response_to_zinke_selection_as_interior_secretary

BHA took a lot of heat for speaking well of Zinke. Unfortunately, sportsmen take a lot of risk supporting republicans and in this case BHA paid for it. With his new position Zinke no longer has to answer to Montanans and on Tuesday Zinke stabbed us in the back by voting for HR 5, which removes a financial barrier to transferring federal lands to the states. So that is what often happens when groups like BHA go to bat for republicans. Nonetheless, they will continue to support the people who will further their cause regardless of political party.

[vicster]

I also don't agree with the initiative as a whole.  I do think some seasonal closures and motor less or hp restrictions for some heavy use areas are legitimate issues to be discussed. 
     I've read about people who don't like the drift boats on the missouri when they are running their jet boat.  Imagine if every one of those drift boats was a jet boat running up and down that section of river trying to beat the next guy to their favorite hole...  I think it would be a crap show on a section of river that is well known and sees heavy traffic.
     I don't own a drift boat, just a personal pontoon boat that I use primarily on rivers, not much on lakes because I have almost been swamped and run over by pleasure boaters in the summer months.  If you have a issue with the number or amount of guided user days that is a legitimate concern and should be discussed along with motor restrictions on heavily used waters.  Limiting engines does not limit access, but could prevent us from loving some river sections to death. 

I'm furious that Zinke voted for the bill, and glad that Daines bucked the party line to vote against it and represent those who put him in office. 

[MT204]

I just got back from the Bozeman meeting and the FWP presentation was extremely misleading. Most of the regulations they talked about are already in place. I can see why people are flipping out about this since the presentation gives the impression BHA is trying to ban motorized craft from most of the state's rivers.

For what it is worth, I don't agree with some of the proposed restrictions on the larger rivers.
Whitefish - the proposed changes for the Whitefish River are only for the lower section and are no-wake from 7/1 to 9/15 and no personal watercraft (jet skis). Your problem appears to be with existing rules, not this proposal.

The point being that they were not happy with the no wake that was on the river for over 15 years.
First they take a little then they take it all!!

[DoogieMT]

What's so wrong with Montanans being able to say what happens with land in Montana rather than someone in Washington DC?

[d_smith84]

If you want to start debating whether Federal Lands should be turned over to the state another thread should be started but before you do you should read one of the most comprehensive reports done on the issue done by the State of Utah.

I once read a piece about fishing that referred to the “new radicals” who were sick of the “liars and sociopaths” that smeared the good organizations such as the Backcountry Hunters and Anglers. Seemed like they  referred to anyone who disagreed with their philosophy as “America-haters”.
Discussion is good as long as both sides are willing to listen, and are willing to come to some type of compromise but more often than not it’s my way or the highway. I’ve seen it happen way to many times where groups such as the BHA submit proposals such as this initiative and once they get a little they are back at the table wanting more. I believe this group, or at least some of the key players, are doing this very thing. Prove me wrong! In 2011, Greg Munther and BHA successfully pushed to get a portion of the Clearwater River shut down and now, in 2016, they’re back at it again asking for more. Just because people are tired of  these so-called “new radicals” pushing their agenda down our throats doesn’t make them  America-haters, liars or sociopaths, they’re  just trying to enjoy what they do on the lands that supposedly belong to everyone.

[d_smith84]

The comment window has been extended.

Written data, views, or arguments may also be submitted to: Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks, Attn: Quiet Waters Petition, P.O. Box 200701, Helena, Montana, 59620-0701; or e-mail [email protected]. Comments must be received no later than Feb. 12, 2017.

[bigsky]

If you want to start debating whether Federal Lands should be turned over to the state another thread should be started but before you do you should read one of the most comprehensive reports done on the issue done by the State of Utah.

What do these reports say? Congressman Rob Bishop is from Utah and he's the main advocate transferring federal to the states. Kind of ironic as they are already selling off state lands in Utah.

[d_smith84]

Here's the link.

http://publiclands.utah.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/1.%20Land%20Transfer%20Analysis%20Final%20Report.pdf

[coldcreekchris]

well..so much good and rational opinions...but don't ya all think there is an underlying issue of just being rude...have had my lunch and gear get wet..cause some jackass is coming up river creating a 2 foot wake...if people would just respect..we wouldn't have this...I know bodies of water have different casual considerations..but come on..this crap wouldn't be happening..if people were respectable in the first place

[d_smith84]

well..so much good and rational opinions...but don't ya all think there is an underlying issue of just being rude...have had my lunch and gear get wet..cause some jackass is coming up river creating a 2 foot wake...if people would just respect..we wouldn't have this...I know bodies of water have different casual considerations..but come on..this crap wouldn't be happening..if people were respectable in the first place

Hear, hear! I agree 100%.

[coldcreekchris]

 ???o k tiber...

[Quantoson]

I have a small 12 foot aluminum boat and I used to get upset when someone came close and threw a 2 foot wake.  Then I noticed that every time that happened, I caught a fish anywhere from 30 seconds to a minute later.  It scares the fish my way so I catch more.  LOL.  I like them wakes now.  I still don't like the big v8 engines that have the exhaust headers.  They are loud but I am hard of hearing so I got that going for me.

[TJet Apprentice45]

Attended the public comment meeting last night in Billings.  Came away with a couple main points.  1.  The FWP Commission that makes the rules we are held to did ZERO investigation or scientific analysis into this proposal before moving it along to public comment. This was confirmed by the extremely rude women from FWP running the meeting.  2.  That same FWP Commission that moved this through was not present at the meeting and had no interest in hearing what people really had to say on the matter.  3.  Back Country Hunters and Anglers is the most spineless group of enviro dicks around.  Not one person bothered to show up and stand up for this BS proposal from BHA, several people standing around in their BHA hats and shirts, but left their balls at home when it came time to talk.

The FWP Commission that is going to push this through with no vote or any other public input is made up of 5 "Appointed" men or women.  These people were appointed by the Governor.  Please take a moment and write Gov. Bullocks office and voice your opinion.  Not sure if it will matter, like I said, the rude women running the meeting last night made it very clear that the commission did not care what we thought or how this would impact real people, but it's worth a shot to keep our right to boat these rivers.

[Born Late]

....like I said, the rude women running the meeting last night made it very clear that the commission did not care what we thought...

Can you elaborate? What was it you considered rude?  Why is it you think the Commission doesn't care?

[rambo51]

How many people do you think were at the billings meeting that were opposed to the proposal?

[d_smith84]

Why is it you think the Commission doesn't care?

From other discussions, here and elsewhere, it seems like neither the FWP Commission nor the BHA leaders feel it's necessary to defend/discuss their justification for this initiative. Typical FWP, follow the rules for public input but they've already made up their mind. Quote "The commission initiated rulemaking on the petition at their May 12, 2016 meeting stating that the commission should consider being proactive instead of reactive to the changes in recreation on Montana's waterways to avoid conflicts and protect traditional and safe recreational uses." Although they used the words "should consider" the meaning is clear.

I agree, letter need to e written to both the Governor and the FWP Commission. Again, the comment period has been extended to Feb. 12th.

[d_smith84]

Quiet Waters may have had a rough reception in Kalispell, but Jeff Lukas, with Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, says people are now talking about what they want Montana’s rivers to look and sound like in the future, and that’s kind of the point.

"This is a conversation starter," says Lukas. "We’re not about taking away existing opportunities. We just want to make sure that everybody's experience is the optimal experience."

I'm so glad Lukas and his friends are so concerned about EVERYBODY being able to have an optimal experience, so much so they want to restrict usage on the State's waters!

[PerchPounderMT]

They are all about out of state paying customers having an optimal experience and telling their friends all about it $$$$$$

[missoulafish]

just like any other initiative.It benefits someone but not everyone.

[SpitzoMT]

just like any other initiative.It benefits someone but not everyone.

BINGO !!

[njoy]

ANY conflict of interest?? Commissioner Vermillion,  Sweetwater travel-fly fishing trips to exotic places, former owner of Sweetwater fly shop.
                                     Commissioner Wolfe, member of Cinnabar Foundation which partners with several environmental groups including BCHA.
                                      One empty seat, one rancher and one lawyer.
 something does not pass the smell test !!!

[lundin-loading]

Helena's public comment meeting on the initiative is Wednesday at 6 at the fish wildlife and parks building at 1420 E 6th Ave. See you there!

[hoofer]

great article in the great falls trib today.must read. real good stuff should get more of us to the meetings to protect our rights to use our rivers!

[FlynIcefish]

Awesome job to everyone who showed up the the meetings! I was present in Helena and Bozeman. Everyone must remember who proposed this initiative. We must watch backcountry Hunters and anglers, and many other so called "sportsmen" groups, as well as two of our fwp commissioners Dan Vermillion of livingston and Gary Wolfe of missoula. Research Mr. Vermillion's flyfishing guide services on the BOULDER, STILLWATER AND YELLOWSTONE rivers as all of these rivers are on the proposal. Here is his website listing those waters http://www.sweetwatertravel.com This would make more room for his customers. Gary Wolfe is the Executive director of The Cinnibar Foundation, which gives and receives grants from BHA. BHA is a group of anti hunter trapper anglers that fool too many of us!  Check out this website https://www.greendecoys.com/decoys/backcountry-hunters-and-anglers/  and voice you opinion here http://fwp.mt.gov/news/publicNotices/rules/pn_0218.html

[RobG]

BHA is a group of anti hunter trapper anglers that fool too many of us!  Check out this website https://www.greendecoys.com/decoys/backcountry-hunters-and-anglers/  and voice you opinion here http://fwp.mt.gov/news/publicNotices/rules/pn_0218.html

What is so sad is how people like you just lie to achieve an end. Here's BHA's position on the trapping initiative. http://www.backcountryhunters.org/montana_bha_opposes_i_177

There should have been a BHA officer at the Billings event. Maybe he couldn't make it because of the roads. How did Helena go?

[Strippnthedream]

Great! The people have spoken. FWP commissioners and legislation better listen. This needs 2 go 2 a public vote. Couple of many things I took from the Helena meeting. 1. Any person or group can submit an initiative. 2. I know it's on many rivers in Montana but from what I took from the meeting was the stretch from holter dam 2 pelican point and the Yellowstone rivers r the focas. With that being said we the people opposed 2 the initiative need 2 come up with an initiative that would limit the amount of guides on those stretches of rivers from day 2 day weather it be a drawing or lottery. 3. The Missouri River is a federal water way. What is a federal water way. Well quick google search. Enjoy. A body of water, such as a river, canal or lake, is navigable if it is deep, wide and slow enough for a vessel to pass or walk. Preferably there are few obstructions such as rocks or trees to avoid. Bridges must have sufficient clearance. High water speed may make a channel unnavigable. Waters may be unnavigable because of ice, particularly in winter. Navigability depends on context: A small river may be navigable by smaller craft, such as a motor boat or a kayak, but unnavigable by a cruise ship. Shallow rivers may be made navigable by the installation of locks that increase and regulate water depth, or by dredging. Navigable Waters legal definition of Navigable Waters
The Free Dictionary › legal-dictionary › ...
Jurisdiction over navigable waters belongs to the federal government rather than states or municipalities. ...
4. Since 1998 there have been 2 maybe 3 accidents involving motor and nonmotorized water craft. that came straight from the FWP speaker.
This initiative is pitting one group against the other. yes it is a difficult situation that needs 2 be addressed but shutting one group out so the other can reap the Bennifits is wrong. Let the people decide its fate!

[polarfsrmn]

So a guy complains about his lunch getting wet from a wake WAWAWA. Has anyone tried wade fishing on the MO below Holter dam to Craig? It may not be wakes that piss you off it's all the float fisherman that are so inconsiderate. There can be SO MANY of them that they cant move out of your casting lane. Let me make it clear a lot of them are outfitters with clients. This group has a lot of policy pull which is wrong another example of policy to help benefit their desires was the all out war on walleyes in that stretch of river. for about the past 5 years there is a no bag limit anything goes on walleyes. The reason the took this action was the argument the walleyes ate to many trout.What a crock... Missoulafish is so right all about the $$$$$.

[missoulafish]

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/news/local/2017/01/12/crowd-criticizes-plan-restrict-motorized-use/96478414/

[lundin-loading]

Flynicefish brought up a great point in the Helena meeting. Per the wording of the proposed law change, on the stretch of water below Holter dam to the Wolf Creek bridge it would be illegal to PADDLE a boat upstream at all...This was confirmed by the warden that was directing the meeting....Let that sink in.

[RobG]

Flynicefish brought up a great point in the Helena meeting. Per the wording of the proposed law change, on the stretch of water below Holter dam to the Wolf Creek bridge it would be illegal to PADDLE a boat upstream at all...This was confirmed by the warden that was directing the meeting....Let that sink in.

JHC, FWP is intent on making this look as bad as possible. That was a mistake that would be fixed if it was implemented.