Author Topic: perch spots (Read 3347 times)

mtjohn · « **on:** Dec 15, 2008, 01:08 AM »

Any info on good perch spots would be great. I have fished Canyon Ferry for years and it hasn't been so hot the last couple of years. I don't need particular spots just good lakes, unless someone is willing to tell me of a good spot on Hauser. Holter never has good ice for very long so I shy away from it. I want to find something somewhat close to Helena so I don't have to travel too much, thanks.

NONYA · « **Reply #1 on:** Dec 15, 2008, 08:34 AM »

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA!

perchhogslayer · « **Reply #2 on:** Dec 15, 2008, 11:26 AM »

Back in the 90's I believe walleye were introduced into Canyon Ferry, least thats when people started reporting catching them. Shortly after, (mid to later 90's) the perch population whent from very good, high numbers, to barely surviving. The FWP then implemented lower catch limited (15, down from 50 or unlimited I think?), and starting in 1999 they collected, bundled, and dropped Christmas trees at key locations around the lake. Perch eggs need to attach to structure, and untill then, there really wasn't an over abundance of structure in the lake, at least where the perch spawn (shallow flats). The FWP has dropped trees every year since then, in 2005 they just started floating them out on the ice to drop wherever the ice melted. The perch population has rebounded a bit since then, but it still nowhere close to what it was pre-walleye. You can still catch perch in CF, but have to work pretty hard at it, and even then its pretty hit and miss. I've had a couple good days, amongst MANY days of catching 1 or 2.
I haven't fished the other Helena lakes very much, in search of perch. (usually just cause the ice is there later, just like you said) but limits on perch on other the other lakes are 50, so I would assume the fishing was better eleswhere? There's lots of water around Helena, and in my experience, none of it is better or worse then anywhere else. Some days are good, some days aren't pretty much everywhere. So, in conclusion... my advise is, just get out there and fish it. Good luck to ya. hope that helps.

mtjohn · « **Reply #3 on:** Dec 16, 2008, 02:01 AM »

I thought that was going to be the response that I would get nonya, but hey I had to try CF has me frustrated.

NONYA · « **Reply #4 on:** Dec 16, 2008, 09:17 AM »

Even decent perch spots are few and far between in this day,there are GREAT perch spots on CF,I fish all the water around here and CF is by far the best.Dont be afraid to get away from the crowd,look at some of the totals on day 2 of the perch derby and you will se what can be done on cf with a little work.

Walltrout · « **Reply #5 on:** Dec 16, 2008, 01:45 PM »

Quote from: perchhogslayer on Dec 15, 2008, 11:26 AM

Back in the 90's I believe walleye were introduced into Canyon Ferry, least thats when people started reporting catching them. Shortly after, (mid to later 90's) the perch population whent from very good, high numbers, to barely surviving. The FWP then implemented lower catch limited (15, down from 50 or unlimited I think?), and starting in 1999 they collected, bundled, and dropped Christmas trees at key locations around the lake. Perch eggs need to attach to structure, and untill then, there really wasn't an over abundance of structure in the lake, at least where the perch spawn (shallow flats). The FWP has dropped trees every year since then, in 2005 they just started floating them out on the ice to drop wherever the ice melted. The perch population has rebounded a bit since then, but it still nowhere close to what it was pre-walleye. You can still catch perch in CF, but have to work pretty hard at it, and even then its pretty hit and miss. I've had a couple good days, amongst MANY days of catching 1 or 2.
I haven't fished the other Helena lakes very much, in search of perch. (usually just cause the ice is there later, just like you said) but limits on perch on other the other lakes are 50, so I would assume the fishing was better eleswhere? There's lots of water around Helena, and in my experience, none of it is better or worse then anywhere else. Some days are good, some days aren't pretty much everywhere. So, in conclusion... my advise is, just get out there and fish it. Good luck to ya. hope that helps.

I don't think the Walleye had anything to do with the reductions in the perch numbers and there were walleye in there long before the 90's. Here is an interesting discussion regarding the walleye in canyon ferry and it includes some input from the CF biologist Eric Roberts.
http://www.walleyesforever.com/dcforum/DCForumID33/43.html

About 5 years ago my uncle was out on CF and he found a spot where there were thousands of pearch dead under the ice. I have heard different ideas from walleyes to pelicans to water quality to lack of forage as the reasons why the perch numbers declined. However, I have not heard anything official from the FWP. Based on my observations, I think the water quality probably is the most likely cause. The times I have used my underwater cam on CF it looks like a barren moonscape down there. I have not found much of anything for plant life down there which is important for perch. During the summer time I know Hauser turns to pea soup from all the algea that grows. My theory is the algea blocks out the sunlight and the plants die which causes further decomposition in the water. Perch require plants or stucture to lay their eggs on or to hide from predators.

I guess I don't know for sure what caused the numbers of perch to decline but if it was the walleyes I would think that there would be a few more big walleye to catch there.

Walltrout

perchhogslayer · « **Reply #6 on:** Dec 16, 2008, 02:03 PM »

Interesting article. Guess I just atributed the decline to walleye, as it seemed like around the same time the walleye population started to grow. I read some old articles from FWP about the population trends, and noticed that in the 90's walleye first started to gain in population. Gotta go find that article now, thanks a lot.

sad story that they population dropped so much. I remember as a kid back in the early 80's we'd fill a 5 gallon bucket in a matter of a few hours. I remember drilling holes near the shore and looking down at the bottom, in about 4-5 feet of water to see hundreds of perch swimming around. no structure back then, just gravel shore, Farmers have been dumping fertilizer in there for decades, I wouldn't think that would have any different of an effect now, then it did back then. could be other industrial run off from upstream? but seemed to only really affect the perch populations. small size? Can't be the fishing pressure. Although CF is the heaviest fished body of water in the state, there's an awefull lot of water for people to spread out on.

perchhogslayer · « **Reply #7 on:** Dec 16, 2008, 02:06 PM »

Quote from: perchhogslayer on Dec 16, 2008, 02:03 PM

Gotta go find that article now, thanks a lot.

Here's a link to the FWP Annual report on Canyon Ferry, Hauser and Holter.
http://fwp.mt.gov/fishing/management/annualReports.html

Looks like I was off a little with years for all this, but interesting link anyhow, and does look like a walleye issue from that presentation. Could definetly be wrong, and no conclusions have been drawn, but looks like as all the other populations have gone done, walleye have gone up. Don't get me wrong, I love walleye, but does look like they are a big reason for the perch/trout populaion decline.

On another note, Looks like angler catches have been WAY higher in Holter for perch, then Canyon Ferry. I love to see the FWP being proactive too! keep it up guys!!!

fishin mt · « **Reply #8 on:** Dec 16, 2008, 02:39 PM »

Quote from: perchhogslayer on Dec 16, 2008, 02:03 PM

Interesting article. Guess I just atributed the decline to walleye, as it seemed like around the same time the walleye population started to grow. I read some old articles from FWP about the population trends, and noticed that in the 90's walleye first started to gain in population. Gotta go find that article now, thanks a lot.
sad story that they population dropped so much. I remember as a kid back in the early 80's we'd fill a 5 gallon bucket in a matter of a few hours. I remember drilling holes near the shore and looking down at the bottom, in about 4-5 feet of water to see hundreds of perch swimming around. no structure back then, just gravel shore, Farmers have been dumping fertilizer in there for decades, I wouldn't think that would have any different of an effect now, then it did back then. could be other industrial run off from upstream? but seemed to only really affect the perch populations. small size? Can't be the fishing pressure. Although CF is the heaviest fished body of water in the state, there's an awefull lot of water for people to spread out on.

where the heck do you get the idea that farmers dump fertilizer into the rivers and reservoirs. come on man. I have been in both the water industry and farming for my whole life. a fact is that most agriculteral water runs away from rivers not into the rivers. all ditches come from upstream to the farms. fertilizer is very expensive and it is used vary sparingly. the idea of polluting rivers and streams with fertilizer is only an idea from uneducated talkers. the run off of storm drains from cities like bozeman is much worse im sure.

Walltrout · « **Reply #9 on:** Dec 16, 2008, 02:44 PM »

I am more apt to blame society in general than just the farmers. The nitrate levels in Helena's ground waters have been steadily rising while the number of farms and ranches in the are have gone down because they are being subdivided. All the nice green lawns and septic tanks have to have some sort of effect. However, Helena is downstream from CF so I guess we can just blame all those jerks in Bozeman.

perchhogslayer · « **Reply #10 on:** Dec 16, 2008, 03:02 PM »

Quote from: Walltrout on Dec 16, 2008, 02:44 PM

just blame all those jerks in Bozeman.

haha, yeah....Blame Bozeman. I didn't mean to knock farmers. I know they aren't intentionally dumping anything into any body of water. Algea blooms are a result of elevated nitrate levels, nitrate levels can elevate slightly due to natural causes, however not to the point of causing massive algae blooms. Canyon ferry recieves run off from all the surrounding farmland. The majority of water CF recieves comes from the Missouri. That river also recieves water from farmland. Hey, I'm all about farms, without farms we have no food! period. but they are the reason behind the yearly algae blooms in CF and Hauser and Holter. Those have been going on as long as the reservoir has been there I'm sure. The contribute to the lack of plant growth in the lake due to trapping sunlight, but the ecosystem in the lake has adapted to the yearly bloom. The fluctuations in fish populations are a result of predation, and to a larger extent, warmer/colder years, more/less runoff from snowmelt, and droughts and non-drought years. Combination of a lot of things.

perchhogslayer · « **Reply #11 on:** Dec 16, 2008, 03:06 PM »

Quote from: fishin mt on Dec 16, 2008, 02:39 PM

a fact is that most agriculteral water runs away from rivers not into the rivers. all ditches come from upstream to the farms. the idea of polluting rivers and streams with fertilizer is only an idea from uneducated talkers.

The hydrologic cycle is a elementary concept. All water makes it way to the ocean sooner or later. either through aquifers or streams/rivers.

cutbow_07 · « **Reply #12 on:** Dec 16, 2008, 04:47 PM »

One scenario that really compounds the increase of nitrates in streambeds is the affect livestock can have of degrading stream banks that are vital for plants that help prevent erosion and thus a decrease in water quality and spawning environments. People from the FWP and DNRC talk about cooperation but that doesnt always happen and especially in Madison County now. We run a 5000ac. farm/ranch and use very little fertilizer now due to the ridiculous price for liquid and non-liquid. But others do use excessive fertilizer because they have the money and think it'll help alot. It does help alot but it is extremely rough on their soils and can actually hurt their yields. Harrison Lake has a ridiculously high level of nitrates in it due to the fact that some people "idiots" *cough*.....have feed lots with the creek going through the middle. All the nitrates run off from the feed which has nitrates, the manure, and then the easy introduction into the watershed leads to algae blooms as previously stated. Just my $.02

fishinwithbrittanies · « **Reply #13 on:** Dec 16, 2008, 06:08 PM »

I understand I am new to this site. I understand it is a public place to have everyone and anyone express their opinions. I have been sitting around the last few days reading some posts and I love how they get so off the topic originally presented. For example this one. Now believe me I'm not criticizing only observing. I went to read what was new for "perch spots" only to find a lengthy argument over population fluctuations in perch brought on by walleye or nitrates or available habitat. Then farming comes in, feed lots then blaming us in bozeman(I own a lawn care business and though I don't apply fertilizers I understand that some people pump entirely to much fert. into their lawn which does eventually enter the aquifer which eventually reaches the watershed which eventually causes algae blooms). Any way I guess what I'm saying is that I would like to look up a post about perch spots and find info on perch spots. Oh yeah this is the other thing I think is great. Thats just my $.02.

wingnutty · « **Reply #14 on:** Dec 16, 2008, 07:10 PM »

Algea blooms are caused mostly by phosphorus, not nitrates. Just an fyi.

Nitrates come from both fert and animal feeding operations. Phosphorus comes primarily from feeding operations. i.e. feeding close to a waterbody (creek, trib stream, lake, pond, ect The reasons for this has to do with mobility of the ions more than anything else.

I've got nothing to share in terms of perch spots close to helena though

I can tell you good spots close to Idaho Falls though

I'm pretty luck to live in Malta next to Nelson, so I'm pretty set for perch spots

btw, fishinwithbrittanies, you aren't by chance Joe are you?

cutbow_07 · « **Reply #15 on:** Dec 16, 2008, 07:26 PM »

Yeah my bad for stirring the coals on this one

I get a lil side-tracked when in fact this should be about fishing locations and tactics....my apologies

Best of luck to all on the hardwater!

Seedtree · « **Reply #16 on:** Dec 16, 2008, 08:35 PM »

The perch are coming back on Peck as well. I caught some fat perch last year through the ice.

fishinwithbrittanies · « **Reply #17 on:** Dec 16, 2008, 10:12 PM »

Yeah Im joe..........but there's a lot of Joes out there. How might you know me.

wingnutty · « **Reply #18 on:** Dec 16, 2008, 10:52 PM »

ahahah, I knew it. I put 2 and 2 together, that's how.

You own a landscaping business, hunt with brittneys, fish, like ice fishing, live in bozeman...gezzzz, only took 2 posts of yours and I had you figured out!

I need a few more clues before i'm totally sure: Does your last name start with V? did you once spend a summer in a garage at a golf course with an awesome deck with a killer view?

fishinwithbrittanies · « **Reply #19 on:** Dec 17, 2008, 10:37 AM »

good to hear from you Ben. All the places huh. weird. How'd you end up in Malta. Guess we're going to have to catch up again.

I just left a note about how people get entirely of the subject on here so its best I shoot you an email or something.

andercee · « **Reply #20 on:** Dec 17, 2008, 12:00 PM »

I wouldn't think the walleye is to blame for the perch reduction. Those big trout have been eating perch long before the walleye got there. I never thought I would ever hear anyone complain about a lake having too much walleye.

perchhogslayer · « **Reply #21 on:** Dec 17, 2008, 12:24 PM »

Quote from: andercee on Dec 17, 2008, 12:00 PM

I wouldn't think the walleye is to blame for the perch reduction. Those big trout have been eating perch long before the walleye got there. I never thought I would ever hear anyone complain about a lake having too much walleye.

Trout numbers are way down too? Like you said, trout have been eating the perch long before the walleye, so why the recent decline? The FWP had to start stocking larger trout so more would survive predation. Not complaining about the walleye at all! I LOVE catching walleye, and if we could use live bait, I'd only target walleye. Just putting 2 and 2 together is all. Its a big lake. the structure the FWP has been introducing looks like its helping a bit? Keep up the good work guys!

fishinwithbrittanies · « **Reply #22 on:** Dec 17, 2008, 02:30 PM »

I went out yesterday onto the bozeman pond or bozeman beach whatever they call it. The one not by the mall.
Had to do some errands in bozeman and figured what the heck had the auger and the poles and everything in the pickup. Now it was cold, and I had the dogs with me. -7 on the truck thermometer so I was out to long. I think in about an hour or less I caught 5 medium size perch in about 17 feet of water. Moved deeper and nothing. Right close to shore it drops of fast I guess and they seemed to like it. I had fish moving through about half way down on the sonar in deeper water but couldn't get them to hit. I wanted to go out again today to see what they were but forgot to plug my truck in last night so here I sit.

fishin mt · « **Reply #23 on:** Dec 17, 2008, 05:51 PM »

the perch in cf have started to come back a little last year there weres some pretty good reports. not like the old days but better than it has been. heck even i caught a few last year so it must not be all that bad. as for the pond in bz it has some average perch in it. i have caught a few decent trout in it and suckers. it can be kind of a fun close place to fish if you find the right spots. also nitrates are also naturally in the ground alot of people dont believe it but its true. we find them 300 feet deep in the water high above and farms and ranches and lawns and engineers and the state have finially admited to us that they are found naturally. just a tidbit of info.

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Author Topic: perch spots (Read 3347 times)