Author Topic: toston (Read 5439 times)

kingling · « **on:** Feb 12, 2011, 05:25 PM »

anyone catching anything at toston i was there today not a bite i was targeting trout

steelerod · « **Reply #1 on:** Feb 12, 2011, 05:53 PM »

I know they had been catching a few there earlier, Norhterns, in the year but havn't heard much in the last few weeks. Been there twice this year(few hours in the PM). One flag each time, no fish. Just quick hit and runs. Going tommorrow morning I think.

kingling · « **Reply #2 on:** Feb 12, 2011, 06:43 PM »

is there a cirtn place to go everywhere i went there was alot of current i never fished anywhere like that it any good for trout there?

steelerod · « **Reply #3 on:** Feb 12, 2011, 07:13 PM »

Only place that doesn't have alot of current is on the bank accross from the boat ramp. That whole side is fairly calm up around the corner, but pretty shallow. Other than that the current is really strong. I have poked holes in areas that are total backwater zero current with no ice and soon as it freezes the current comes. think the ice restricts the water and there ends up being alot of current where ever theres water under the ice. As far as trout I know there in there but havn't ever really fished for em.here of some big browns coming out of there every now and then . If you wanna catch them trash fish

J/K, probably just as well to go the extra ways to the silohs.

kingling · « **Reply #4 on:** Feb 12, 2011, 07:55 PM »

i would rather catch walleye and pike and perch i just never have fished for them i have little knowledge of how to fish for them. i love to hook into a huge pike or walleye. you should let me know how you do when you go to toston

steelerod · « **Reply #5 on:** Feb 13, 2011, 10:51 PM »

Got up at 6 this morning desided not to go since the wind was blowning just a little stronger than a tornado. But then after way to much coffee and spending an hour outside chasing and cleaning up toys, sleds and other misc. crap blowning around the yard I desided it wasn't that cold out and took off. Didn't get out there until about 11 and had to leave a little after 3 to go look a a job for work. Nothing not one flag. Wish i could have stayed until dark since we have had pretty much all are action after 4 in the past. Anyhow ice was still good a little water on top, but still 12 inches plus, maybe later this week I'll try to give it another go.

JayHelfrich · « **Reply #6 on:** Feb 13, 2011, 11:06 PM »

So I hear that the best spot to drop a couple of tip up's in is over on the east side across from the boat launch in slack water less than 4 feet deep. Any truth to this? What's the best bait? I have some frozen sucker minnows.

Jay

steelerod · « **Reply #7 on:** Feb 14, 2011, 10:13 PM »

Was the spot for sure last year. this year they seem to be a little more hard to come by. They took alot of fish out of there last year and I have also heard the FWP has been netting them. Was told they're killing all the females and tagging the males and letting them go . I know for sure they have been netting not sure about the killing of females but wouldn't surprise me at all. Good chance the pop. is just way down this year. As far as bait I use smelt, really oily so they give off alot of scent. Have caught alot on live Suckers in Eastern Montana so sure dead would work too.

YETI_MILK · « **Reply #8 on:** Feb 15, 2011, 01:52 PM »

wuldnt surprisme they killing females damn fish and game dont want us fishin they want us to leave ther presshus litl fishes alone they dont care about us guys that been fishin for 50 yrs and payin them paycheck. i bet they do kill them females damn fand g

Soulfly · « **Reply #9 on:** Feb 15, 2011, 02:43 PM »

mt f & g don't like them big females eaten all the little trouts in their. poor trout get know respect

kingling · « **Reply #10 on:** Feb 15, 2011, 06:39 PM »

there is trout everywhere you go it nice to catch different and bigger fish and not have to travel 300 miles

DLakermovedWest · « **Reply #11 on:** Feb 15, 2011, 06:49 PM »

Sorry but that does not fly. The pike came from an illegally stocked pond that failed and let them into to Gallatin. If they would stay in the MO it would be fine, but they threaten the Jeff's reemerging trout population, Beaverhead, Bighole (and the native grayling up there) the East Gallatin and the Ruby up to the dam.

There much more at stake than having to drive to fish for pike, that is very short sighted.

kingling · « **Reply #12 on:** Feb 15, 2011, 09:24 PM »

you really think that pike are going to eat all the trout i live 5 min from the jefferson and have never caught one and rainbows and browns are not native either. the rainbow population is gettin out of hand its the browns that you shout worry about

eroknroll · « **Reply #13 on:** Feb 16, 2011, 01:29 AM »

I would love to catch a pike... but not in the east gallatin. no thanks. I hope they can get rid of them. The area isn't famous all over the world for the pike fishing.

kingling · « **Reply #14 on:** Feb 16, 2011, 06:30 AM »

ya i dont think they need to be in the there either. but i really dont think it would be that bad if there where a few at toston or the jeff

YETI_MILK · « **Reply #15 on:** Feb 16, 2011, 08:33 AM »

for sher if they could just get a few to stay at toston or in the jeff than it wood be ok. i dont see why we cant have juust a few in toston and the jeffand not anywhere else

eroknroll · « **Reply #16 on:** Feb 16, 2011, 09:34 AM »

I haven't had a chance to ever catch pike, but I can't wait for my chance to get out to ft peck. I am all for having some pike in the toston or cf etc if there were ever some way to keep them out of the rivers.

DLakermovedWest · « **Reply #17 on:** Feb 16, 2011, 06:31 PM »

Quote from: eroknroll on Feb 16, 2011, 09:34 AM

I haven't had a chance to ever catch pike, but I can't wait for my chance to get out to ft peck. I am all for having some pike in the toston or cf etc if there were ever some way to keep them out of the rivers.

Toston is infact the river, and there are no barriers to stop the spread of pike save the Ruby Dam. The pike actually moved down to Toston and are becoming common in the Jefferson, especially the sloughs. (If anyone wants to catch some, just get access to a slough and have at them.)

Far too many examples of invasive species displacing the natives. I know bows and browns are not native obviously and they are certainly part of the ecosystem now, but they occupy the same niche as the cutts did in these streams. The grayling in the Bighole are some of the last fluvial graying populations in the lower 48. One more threat to them and the ESA will be invoked and that will be a huge hit to both ranching and fishing economies. We only need to look at what lakers have done in Yellowstone to understand what sort of problems this sort of introduction causes.

The big picture is that trout bring millions of dollars and thousands of jobs to our part of Montana. Driving a bit to catch a certain type of fish is a small problem compared to the threat.

kingling · « **Reply #18 on:** Feb 16, 2011, 06:49 PM »

that is all true and i would rather have browns and rainbows around than pike. i guess im sorry for thinking like a out of stater.
i live about 25 yards from the jefferson slough and still have not caught a pike yet but if i do ill keep them all. but dont
forget all the money walleye bring to montana to though.

kingling · « **Reply #19 on:** Feb 16, 2011, 06:50 PM »

what did the lakers do to the yellowstone?

DLakermovedWest · « **Reply #20 on:** Feb 16, 2011, 09:27 PM »

Yellowstone Lake. They were illegally introduced about 30 years ago and have reduced the Yellowstone Cutthroat population to less than 7% of what it was. Areas such as the Thouroghfare region of the southern park, Pelican Creek and the Yellowstone River between the lake and the falls have totally lost the fishery. Tax payers are having to foot the bill to have a comercial fishing crew net as many lakers as they can, and any laker caught by anglers must be killed.

It is a classic example of somebody thinking another species would be cool, and that one guy killed a native fishery.

DLakermovedWest · « **Reply #21 on:** Feb 16, 2011, 09:37 PM »

Quote from: kingling on Feb 16, 2011, 06:49 PM

that is all true and i would rather have browns and rainbows around than pike. i guess im sorry for thinking like a out of stater.
i live about 25 yards from the jefferson slough and still have not caught a pike yet but if i do ill keep them all. but dont
forget all the money walleye bring to montana to though.

No doubt walleye are a great benefit to Monatana's fisheries were they fit the ecosystem. But there is a line of thinking that they are responsible for the drastically lower perch populations in Canyon Ferry. We are learning that tinkering with fisheries often has the opposite effect of the intentions.

I cringe when people still call for mysis shrimp or other food sources to be introduced to water after what they did to kokanee, west slope cutts and bulltrout in NW Montana. They eat all the zooplankton that the young fish and kokes require and have crashed may a fishery. That is also why the FWP biologists are reluctant to introduce fatheads into Canyon Ferry, and keep the bait ban in place. Hard to predict what will happen in the long run.

streamside · « **Reply #22 on:** Feb 16, 2011, 10:33 PM »

Dlaker is absolutely correct in his assessment of the Flathead Lake kokanee situation, this fishery went from one million kokanee per year being caught by sport fishermen, to 0. It is now considered to be one of, if not the premier lake trout fisheries in the U.S., with 50,000 lake trout harvested annually. Let's do the math here, 1,000,000+ kokanee VS 50,000 lake trout. This was a mistake made by the MT Moose and Goose Dept., with all their research and whatever to back up their decision to introduce mysis shrimp into three lakes upstream of Flathead Lake. The walleye in Canyon Ferry were illegally introduced, same with the perch in Mary Ronan. All these actions have unintended, (or uncared about), consequences, and affect the fisheries for years and years, until the food chain can adjust to it's new "reality". Be very careful what you wish for.

MTviking · « **Reply #23 on:** Feb 17, 2011, 11:56 AM »

You guys that are worried about pike traveling up the gallatin, I even heard threatening Grayling up the Bighole; it's not going to happen. They will travel up the sluggish Jefferson until run out of adequate slow moving water. A pike's physiology allows it tremendous but short bursts of energy but they do not have the stamina to fight current for extended periods.

A perfect example of a similar situation is the Missoula area. Pike were planted in the Seeley chain and thrived. From there, they moved down stream through the clearwater, into the blackfoot which met the Clark Fork at Milltown Dam. Milltown Dam had ideal pike habitat so the population exploded in there as well and they began getting past the dam and trickling down the Clark Fork and a few up the Bitterroot.

Everybody was up in arms as the pike were about to spread everywhere and ruin their blue ribbon trout waters. Well as it has turned out, the pike are still doing pretty well in areas that are suitable for pike but they have been unable or unwilling to make it past the slow pools and backwater sloughs in order to threaten the good trout water. They are not found in the mid and upper stretches of the Bitterroot, they never made it up Rock Creek, they came down the Blackfoot but none have taken up permanent residence. The pike are still around and the trout streams are still as good as ever. Apparently the pike were not so big of threat afterall.

Soulfly · « **Reply #24 on:** Feb 17, 2011, 12:35 PM »

wow mt viking. you sound like the man on pike here in montana. i like the trout and feel they don't get no respexst. those pike are viscious killers and the trout cann't defend their native waters with all the water wolfes

JayHelfrich · « **Reply #25 on:** Feb 17, 2011, 12:59 PM »

Trout taste like chit and pike won't even eat them. Stir the pot. Now discuss! LOL. Granted cutthroat trout are the native trout species for Montana. The problem I see is that the FWP (in this state and others) introduced (and at times with the help of bucket biologist) other fish species (browns, rainbows, and warm water species) that competed with these native fish. This got people into a mind set where if they didn't like the fishing on their home waters (due to a poor bite, overfishing, habitat destruction, and other reasons) they could just fix it by putting more (and different kinds of) fish in there. This killed the ways of the sportsman who only caught and kept that what he needed to feed his family with out depleting the resource.

So in closing it is another case of greed over taking need. It happens every where in all aspects of life.

Jay

MTviking · « **Reply #26 on:** Feb 17, 2011, 01:06 PM »

Quote from: Soulfly on Feb 17, 2011, 12:35 PM

wow mt viking. you sound like the man on pike here in montana. i like the trout and feel they don't get no respexst. those pike are viscious killers and the trout cann't defend their native waters with all the water wolfes

Not just pike man, I know everything about anything.... No, I'm kidding just like you obviously are.

DLakermovedWest · « **Reply #27 on:** Feb 17, 2011, 06:28 PM »

" A pike's physiology allows it tremendous but short bursts of energy but they do not have the stamina to fight current for extended periods."

I'd like to see some documentation on this claim about pike.

But even trout do not fight current for extended periods of time, like all fish they take advantage of current seams and bottom turbulence to navigate fast water. Pike are common in northern Canada were there are much larger rapids between lakes and slow rivers than anything we have on the rivers in question. I have caught pike in Big Spring Creek near the hatchery after all, and that creek loses elevation faster than most of our larger trout streams do. Hardly a slow bit of water between the Hoot Colony to the hatchery. I have caught pike in several salmon rivers in Scotland were they are indeed native but also have been able to navigate some very fast stretches inorder to populate lochs and do live in the rivers as well.

The upper Bighole is not fast water, it is winding meadow water with many long slow pools and with lower water levels the temps rise into the 70's each summer which is perfect for pike. If pike do make it that far up stream, and there really is nothing to stop them, they obviously will eat grayling and that could well be the trigger for ESA action. Not what anyone of us wants obviously.

It may take years, it may take decades or it may never become a problem. Nobody can say for sure.But there is no reason to dispute the possible threat of pike to the graying population or the trout in the other streams. Real live PhD biologists understand the issue and are acting. The law is clear about illegally introducing species, and responsible sportsmen will abide by the rules and not even encourage illegal introductions.

captain stubie · « **Reply #28 on:** Feb 17, 2011, 07:16 PM »

over at pishkun (a res. over by agusta) has pike galor! iv seen a 22lb come out of there.... and there are a ABUNDENCE of rainbows in there and iv never caught a small trout they have all been atleast 5lbs and the biggest was 9.2. so with my experience i think it will improve the fishing up at toston because fewier trout will mean there will be more habitat for them and so they will grow larger. so i think overall the cons vs. the pros it will be a good relationship for the fish

DLakermovedWest · « **Reply #29 on:** Feb 17, 2011, 08:30 PM »

At this point I can only place my face gently in my hands and feel for the poor FWP biologists who have to answer this sort of thinking at meeting after meeting after meeting...

Oh well.

News:

Author Topic: toston (Read 5439 times)