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Montana => Ice Fishing Montana => Topic started by: 12BHNTN on Dec 27, 2016, 01:32 PM

Title: How many is too many?
Post by: 12BHNTN on Dec 27, 2016, 01:32 PM
Over the last several years there's been a lot of discussion regarding people catching and keeping too many perch out of Holter.  Without getting into the actual facts about perch biology and reproduction, I thought it would be interesting to get feedback on what everyone considers too many, and why it is too many.

For me and my wife, the no possession limit for perch on Holter is a wonderful thing.  Although I am proficient at putting deer and elk in the freezer, we much prefer walleye and perch and by freezing the fillets in water they keep perfectly in the chest freezer until thawed and eaten.

So how many is too many and why?
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: Idahogator on Dec 27, 2016, 01:46 PM
Too many is more than can be filleted immediately upon arriving at camp/home.      ;)2 
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: hoofer on Dec 27, 2016, 01:50 PM
i keep enough perch for a few meals for my wife and i.why because i am going fishing again soon. it make me wonder with no limit on perch how many go in the trash.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: spoofhoundicefisher on Dec 27, 2016, 01:59 PM
i agree idahogator.  don't catch what you can't clean when you get done.  thats part of the experience.  if you don't want to dress the fish after the fishing is over then don't keep them when you are catching them.  put them back in and let a kid catch them.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: Born Late on Dec 27, 2016, 02:23 PM
...it make me wonder with no limit on perch how many go in the trash.

Same here...(and as I mentioned on the Holter page) along with how many fish get stuffed back into the hole in 30+ feet of water without using a descending device.  To me, each is wanton waste.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: montanaice on Dec 27, 2016, 02:50 PM
seems like this is a recurring topic on the holter page i usually catch the limit then wait tell next time to limit out again. i usually limit out in the summer a few times too. but all the perch i catch i eat i never catch more then i can eat
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: greener07 on Dec 27, 2016, 02:52 PM
12bhntn, thanks for posting this.  I go on the Holter page to check conditions and fishing reports, but seems like all it is lately is bantering back and forth about this topic.  A guy gets excited about catching a bunch of perch to feed his family and then gets ridiculed because he is going to deplete the perch population.  First of all, I rarely keep fish because I don't eat them.  I sometimes keep some for others though.  Secondly, I have no idea if keeping a bunch of fish is going to hurt the population but when I can go and catch a ton of fish in a couple of hours, I think there is probably a bunch of them down there.  And since it is not my expertise, I wont speak on the matter.  Also, when I drove up there last year I was going to release some but we were pulling them out of 50 fow and so I couldn't.  Since I didn't want to drive 5 hours round trip to fish for an hour and go home, I ended up keeping a limit because I was having a blast fishing and couldn't release them.  So, I took them home, cleaned them and fried up a few for my kids, and then gave them to people who were grateful to get them.  And from what it sounds, there are still a ton this year again.  (Hoping to get up there again soon and find out for myself.)  Now if people are wasting fish, then that's a different thing, but if people are keeping a limit of fish to eat, and they are doing it within the law, then so be it.

Does anyone know the history on the perch population in this lake, and how long the 50 perch limit has been in place?  If we knew that information, that might answer the question for us.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: grizzlyhackle on Dec 27, 2016, 02:56 PM
Same here...(and as I mentioned on the Holter page) along with how many fish get stuffed back into the hole in 30+ feet of water without using a descending device. 

I think this is one of the biggest things a lot of anglers don't realize
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: BloodShotP on Dec 27, 2016, 03:33 PM
Last year there were literally thousands of perch stuck to the underside of the ice, it was sickening. Catch and Release doesn't work in some situations. I agree, keep the first 50 if you so choose, not pick through 200 for the biggest 50, while "releasing" 150 that will die. It was really disappointing to see so many healthy, not to mention tasty, perch stuck to the underside of the ice last year. Downright unethical to fish in 40+ FOW and try to release fish without a decompression device.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: greener07 on Dec 27, 2016, 03:49 PM
Do those decompression devices work without injuring the fish?  I didn't want to risk it, that why I just kept my first 50.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: Born Late on Dec 27, 2016, 04:13 PM
I was referring to a descending device something like this: http://www.sheltonproducts.com/SFD.html   Most agencies and biologists advise against fizzing (i.e. popping a swim bladder with a needle) as a means of recompression.  Survival is far lower with fizzing than when using a descending device. 

Back to the original question, I don't have a problem with an angler keeping their legal daily limit provided they truly will use those fish and are making an effort to revive fish they aren't going to keep as part of their daily bag. But no possession limits?  Hmmmm...  I'm not sure that doesn't just encourage gluttony.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: BloodShotP on Dec 27, 2016, 04:26 PM
Those descending devices do work, and don't injure the fish. It's just that the percentage of people who use them is about nil. They are kind of a pain and take time away from fishing, so most people don't bother. Hence the pile of fish stuck to the bottom of the ice around log gulch.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: BloodShotP on Dec 27, 2016, 04:31 PM
And to be clear, there is a daily limit of 50 perch at Holter, it is an exception to the standard limitless perch rule. And generally, there is a reason when FWP implements a limit on a species in a body of water, when the species is unregulated in most. It is because they believe the fishery can be damaged by unregulated harvest.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: Oldbear on Dec 27, 2016, 04:49 PM
Maybe the DNR has a high limit on them and wants people to take out a bunch to keep the quality and size up.  Just like bluegills over populated get stunted.  Apparently there is an abundance of them.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: 207 in the 406 on Dec 27, 2016, 05:26 PM
I was referring to a descending device something like this: http://www.sheltonproducts.com/SFD.html

Thanks for that, BL! I'm gonna order one soon!
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: esox_xtm on Dec 27, 2016, 05:32 PM
Too many..... that is more than what you can use without having to give or throw away. Use it (all) for yourself, I never have an issue.

An occasional gift is OK, but to toss a resource because it went south before you could utilize it is a waste.

You asked, just my opinion.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: Born Late on Dec 27, 2016, 05:43 PM
Thanks for that, BL! I'm gonna order one soon!

It wouldn't be too tough to fab something similar but I appreciate the guy's "No Floaters" passion and ordered a couple from him a couple of years ago.  I don't use the upper egg sinker on my rig since it's unlikely I'll be throwing back any perch that require that much weight to send back down!
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: BloodShotP on Dec 27, 2016, 05:47 PM
Oldbear, the fact that fwp implemented a special limit for holter indicates that the lake can't handle limitless harvest, which is the case for other lakes in the region. So exactly the opposite of what you said is true for Holter. The standard of no limit would apply if fwp felt there was an over abundance. They are limiting harvest to prevent damage to the fishery.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: Gone_fishing on Dec 27, 2016, 06:00 PM
I'm new to ice fishing and haven't targeted perch before (ice or open water) but intend to in the future. A little embarrassed to say I was unaware that many will not survive being released after being pulled from deep water, but it does make sense. Learn something new everyday, glad i opened this discussion!
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: Fishy Fishy on Dec 27, 2016, 07:08 PM
Keep as many as you can fillet, I enjoy having big fish frys with friends.  Then again I eat fish a few times a week, got some perch chowder in the crockpot now.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: albo on Dec 27, 2016, 07:51 PM
The limit for perch on Canyon Ferry (two dams up stream) is 10 and on Hauser the reservoir closest to Holster is also 10 with the exception on only one from April 1st to June 30th and it has to be over 14 inches. This chain of reservoirs on the Missouri River have had a declining perch population for years due to an increased predation by walleye, small mouth bass and northern pike. The limits have been placed on the perch to protect the population. If we as sports men and women don't follow the existing rules and also follow common sense practices and not try to release the smaller fish caught at the deeper parts of the reservoir we will see the current limit on Holster lowered. It was 35 a couple years ago.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: 406hntfish on Dec 27, 2016, 09:20 PM
Good discussion on releasing fish coming up from depth but what is everyones opinion on releasing fish when the air temperature is very cold. I was pulling trout out of 5-6 fow the other day when it was below zero with wind chill.  How long do I have to remove hook and release before fish freezes?
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: curdog on Dec 27, 2016, 09:24 PM
I have always wondered that myself I rarely set up the hut I would think those really cold days would be hard on a fish
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: missoulafish on Dec 27, 2016, 09:27 PM
  How long do I have to remove hook and release before fish freezes?
you will see their eyes freeze over and frozen fin tips....happens very fast. no time for a pic if its that cold.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: G fish on Dec 27, 2016, 09:35 PM
I have been a part of the fill the bucket with jumbo perch when I was a kid fun to catch but when we got home and my dad had to clean all them well that is a different story, 10 is a meal 20 is a feast and any more well you must eat a lot.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: vicster on Dec 27, 2016, 10:17 PM
It will be interesting to see what fwp does with the limit on perch as next year or two.  The huge year class is probably in it's last year and I havent heard if there are any big year classes behind them.  I imagine with all the mature spawners there have been plenty of eggs but with perch it seems like it's mostly weather dependent during the spawn whether or not you have a strong year class....  How much longer will it be able to sustain 50 fish limits with the pressure it's been seeing the last couple years?
And yeah, if your releasing perch from 30 foot or deeper it's no better than throwing them on the bank.  Keep em and eat em.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: Born Late on Dec 27, 2016, 10:54 PM
It will be interesting to see what fwp does with the limit on perch as next year or two.  The huge year class is probably in it's last year and I havent heard if there are any big year classes behind them.

Yup. It's not often we're faced with large numbers of fish dying of old age but that's not far ahead of this particular perch age class.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: pmmpete on Dec 28, 2016, 08:42 AM
You can get a Shelton descending device without charge at www.oceaned.org. 
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: missoulafish on Dec 28, 2016, 08:45 AM
Thanks for that info Pete:)
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: Oldbear on Dec 28, 2016, 08:51 AM
Oldbear, the fact that fwp implemented a special limit for holter indicates that the lake can't handle limitless harvest, which is the case for other lakes in the region. So exactly the opposite of what you said is true for Holter. The standard of no limit would apply if fwp felt there was an over abundance. They are limiting harvest to prevent damage to the fishery.

Gotcha.  Thanks.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: 12BHNTN on Dec 28, 2016, 01:22 PM
Most reasonable and balanced discussion I've read in a long time.  Thanks guys.  Glad to know I'm sharing the ice and resources with so many level heads.  Cleaning 50 perch is a chore, but when the resource allows I sure do appreciate the experience and enjoy the rewards for months to come.

Tight lines!
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: Thundersticks on Dec 28, 2016, 10:28 PM
Glad to hear some fellow fisherman are being sensible when it comes to perch limits. I go by ten a day myself. The decline in perch numbers in canyon ferry and hauser lakes came from over harvest by fisherman,not because of walleye predadation.the perch population was in decline long before walleyes showed up. Ling have more to do with perch numbers than eyes. For six and a half years now since I moved back to helena from Western Mt, i hear all the time, we just don't  catch big walleyes like we used to. I see fisherman  on shore,in boats, & on ice catching walleyes ranging from 5-6 inches and up. If it's a  walleye, no matter what size, in the bucket,live well, or on the stringer it goes. Keep it up. In couple more years you will succeed  where fwp's couldn't.  You will eradicate walleyes out of Canyon ferry,hauser,and even Holter. That's a  sad but true thought.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: perch poacher on Dec 28, 2016, 10:41 PM
I also go as 10 as a limit as does my fishing partner-enough for a meal.  I caught two 12+" perch that went back as spawners in 15 FOW.  Hopefully we will reap the rewards in the future.
Title: Re: How many is too many?
Post by: missoulafish on Dec 28, 2016, 11:04 PM
Hopefully we will reap the rewards in the future.
:clap: :clap: :clap: