Author Topic: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?  (Read 30723 times)

Offline GCD

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #30 on: Jan 16, 2011, 07:05 AM »
GCD - my point was that some guy earlier in the thread was supposedly buying 'pure' tungsten jigs from some Russian website, and the math worked out to $2.33 per jig.  I agree with you that a pure tungsten jig should cost way more than that.  
The jigs for $2.33 were ordered from Russia, even though the US dollar has weakened... it still buy more in other countries than it does here, a lot more in some places.

A sintered jig will cost a lot more than a epoxy mix jig, but buying a sintered jig in another country for $2.33 is not out of the question.

Ya gotta love the WWW!


Oh - and the guy who posted the Bentley link - those are not the same jigs as the Shark brand jigs.  The Bentley jigs are Polish, and the Shark Tackle stuff is Ukrainian.  They look similar, but are in fact two different manufacturers.  

At the end of the day, I don't care if it's sintered tungsten (gotta love wikipedia...) or tungsten powder mixed with epoxy, the jigs fish heavier, faster, and more accurately than lead.  If you don't think so, then you have not actually seen or used one.  Seriously, there is no question about it.   They put more fish on the ice for me, I love them!

As I mentioned earlier in this thread (but you may have missed it), the tungsten/epoxy jigs are only slightly more dense than lead. Therefore they're on slightly heavier, maybe not even enough to notice. It might be a touch of your imagination and a whole lot of confidence that makes these jigs fish better for you... and as we all know, confidence is the best thing to have when fishing!  

You can buy tungsten jigs for $2.19 here in the US, google SportsmansDirect, I tried posting the link but it doesn't work for some reason.
Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day, give him a religion and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish... author unknown


Offline richstick

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #31 on: Jan 16, 2011, 08:47 AM »
GCD - have you fished with a tungsten jig?  They are noticeably heavier (denser) than lead, they fish noticeably faster and do a noticeably better job removing the slack from your line.  This helps in strike detection whether you are a line watcher, spring bobber guy, or a 'pounder'.

And yes - John at Sportsmensdirect has the bumble bee style jigs. His quality is pretty good, and he sells Little Atom plastics for a better price than you'll find anywhere else.  Nice guy, good stuff.  He's the inventor of the Sonic Ice Hopper.... :)

Offline GCD

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #32 on: Jan 16, 2011, 08:54 AM »
I make my own jigs, pour the lead and powder paint... and catch plenty of fish on them, I see no reason to buy tungsten.

I wasn't talking about the Bumble Bee jigs at Sportsmans Direct, he has some gold plated tungsten jigs starting at $2.19 each... the most expensive one is $2.49.
Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day, give him a religion and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish... author unknown


Offline eriksat1

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #33 on: Jan 16, 2011, 09:51 AM »
Whether they are absolutely pure tungsten or not who cares, the sintered or cast ones even if they are mixed alloy tungsten are much heavier than lead, the ones mixed from powder with epoxy I believe anyone can make, are not as heavy for the size. The tell tale sign is the ones with the most tungsten that are cast / sintered are the ones without a hook eye sticking out, the line ties on straight through the jig head itself.

Offline richstick

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #34 on: Jan 16, 2011, 10:00 PM »
I'll take that as a 'no, I have not actually fished a tungsten jig'.  If that is in fact the case, then you really have no idea what you are talking about... Not trying to be a jerk, but, well, there it is....

Offline flyboyroy

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #35 on: Jan 17, 2011, 05:43 PM »
Somewhere on the shanty  there must  be a teacher or a professor that  would know how  weight, atomic weight, and density relate to each other.

---  I  fish shallow water ---  almost always  under 15ft.  I can get a lead jig to the bottom  very quickly.    If a tungsten jig gets there even  quicker ---  thats ok --  I  dont mind  if they beat me  by  a fraction os a second.

Im with GCD - I will keep molding and painting my own.    I might  try a tungsten jig just for giggles,  but  for my style of fishing  lead is  the best buy.   

Give the gung ho tungsten guys a little slack, though ---  maybe they fish deeper, or in current, or  in a tournament where  getting to the bottom a milisecond faster  might make  a difference.  There is  plenty of room  for both kinds of jigs.

gotta run --   fish to fillet !

Offline newincudahy

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #36 on: Jan 17, 2011, 06:34 PM »
Those that havent tried the fiskas really should give them a try. If you only buy one make it a 3mm in the color you use most. If you have an underwater cam you will see a difference in how the move when jigging. Just plain deadly on gills. They swim so much better.
Fish Now! Cuz you'll be dead a long time.

Offline GCD

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #37 on: Jan 17, 2011, 06:58 PM »
I'll take that as a 'no, I have not actually fished a tungsten jig'.  If that is in fact the case, then you really have no idea what you are talking about... Not trying to be a jerk, but, well, there it is....

Oh heck yeah!... try to sucker me into the money trap you've been sucked into! ::)... if I need more weight, I'll put the scissors to the 1/32 and tie on a 1/16... it's not that hard to figure out. :P
Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day, give him a religion and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish... author unknown


Offline Double-L

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #38 on: Jan 17, 2011, 08:04 PM »
Oh heck yeah!... try to sucker me into the money trap you've been sucked into! ::)... if I need more weight, I'll put the scissors to the 1/32 and tie on a 1/16... it's not that hard to figure out. :P

    Good comeback. ;)..... Very interesting thread; I should be getting my fiskas in the mail tomorrow :-\ & anxious to tie them on.(will try to put them to the test )    I too am skeptical/ Don't believe in Magic Lure; (But keep hoping)......LL
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Offline flyboyroy

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #39 on: Jan 18, 2011, 04:06 AM »
    Good comeback. ;)..... Very interesting thread; I should be getting my fiskas in the mail tomorrow :-\ & anxious to tie them on.(will try to put them to the test )    I too am skeptical/ Don't believe in Magic Lure; (But keep hoping)......LL

we should probably be like LL and give them a try ----- but  I think I will wait and let my  buddies spend their money on them instead.

The guys are jabbing me on another thread about using the old fashoned lures ---  I told them that it isnt just how fast it sinks --- if you want to be scientific,  then consider the total time --- from when you drop your lure in the water until it comes back up with another gil on it.    That would encompass probably hundreds of variables besides what your jig is made of.

I did go down to the fly shop -- they had 1/8 " tungsten  beads.  I tied  two of them on a size 12 streamer hook, and  tied a couple of rubber legs on it.  It worked ok --- didnt sink fast,  but  the rubber legs would explain that.  I think it might have cost about .50 or so to make that little lure.    The other 3 guys I fished with used lead and did  about the same as me.


Offline newincudahy

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #40 on: Jan 18, 2011, 07:36 AM »
They are not magic. The simply offer a heavy for its size jig.. When the gill bite is iffy standard practice is to use a smaller jig, too small and you get line curl and slow drop time. Slow drop is not a problem but if your not fishing a tight line seeing the hit IS. Thats where these excel.  I know I catch more fish because of them.
Fish Now! Cuz you'll be dead a long time.

Offline SPADED

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #41 on: Jan 18, 2011, 08:44 AM »
if your fishing with a slight current they work great too... i do own some for the current and deeper fishing (30 ft or so). BUT.. knowing how many jigs we all have,and trying to completely clean out your jig box and replace all with tungsten would be super expensive and not really worth it.. what i did was look for some of my fav patterns and some in smaller sizes just for deep water and fishing current.. i own about 5 or so and that seems to be enough for me. other then that i always use lead,not worth the speed on the drop in 10 ft of water and risking snapping off 3 bucks

Offline prospector

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #42 on: Jan 18, 2011, 08:59 AM »
They are not magic. The simply offer a heavy for its size jig.. When the gill bite is iffy standard practice is to use a smaller jig, too small and you get line curl and slow drop time. Slow drop is not a problem but if your not fishing a tight line seeing the hit IS. Thats where these excel.  I know I catch more fish because of them.
I agree, line curl is helped alot when you want to go small.

Offline Double-L

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #43 on: Jan 18, 2011, 12:07 PM »
They are not magic. The simply offer a heavy for its size jig.. When the gill bite is iffy standard practice is to use a smaller jig, too small and you get line curl and slow drop time. Slow drop is not a problem but if your not fishing a tight line seeing the hit IS. Thats where these excel.  I know I catch more fish because of them.

    Makes sense to me.     BTW they weren't in the mail today. Hopefully tomorrow????   LL
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Offline eriksat1

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #44 on: Jan 18, 2011, 12:35 PM »
I found some more info off one of the Russian jig websites about tungsten jigs. There is a little lost in the translation but still understandable.

"A lot of people know that Tula is a hero city, city of gunsmiths. Tula spice cake and Tula samovar are the visit card of the city. But at the present moment few persons know that Tula is also the home of wolfram shapened jig, so called, Tula jig. Tula skilled craftsmen surprise us by their discoveries and articles even nowadays. So, they also have made a gift for the fishermen.

Tula jig is very often in demand among amateurs fishermen and sport fishermen who participate in the international jig fishing contests. It really deserves this status.

A lot of fishermen know about the advantage of wolfram jigs from their own experience. They differ according to the form, color, price, but at the same time the absence of information about the material density of different articles may difficult the customerís choice.

The main difference of wolfram jig from the lead is itís high density (or considerable specific weight). The wolfram jigs that we can see in the shops may be conditionally divided into three groups:

1. Groove jigs

They are produced from wolfram work pieces (sorts WNG, WND) of 18 g/cm3 density and shaped by turning or grinding. After that the groove is cut through, later while hook fixing it is fulfilled by solder with hole forming for the fishing line.

The jig density reduces considerably due to the groove making into the wolfram work piece. The loss of the jig specific weight depends directly on the size, length and thickness of the groove.

The technology of such jig producing is very difficult and labour-intensive, that is why they did not become widespread.

2. Pressed jigs

Lately all the shops have been fulfilled by wolfram jigs obtained by pressing.

They may hardly be called wolfram. The pure wolfram exists only in the form of powder. To give a certain shape to an alloy it is necessary to use special binding agents: copper, nickel, iron. These elements bind the wolfram powder grains assuming itís strength and density. The wolfram work pieces are obtained by methods of powder metallurgy. It is necessary to use special facilities for pressing, high-temperature hydrogen furnaces for further difficult thermic treatment which is called caking.

Only trade shops of powder metallurgy are able to organize such production, but there are few in Russia.

Pressed wolfram jigs that we meet in retail sale are usually do-it-yourself. Lead, glue or a kind of analogical material is used as binding element. As they are very fragile the manufacturers cover them with tin or some other substance melt to give them more mechanical strength. The density of such jigs is about 14 g/cm3 that does not surpass considerably the density of lead analogs.

There are also jigs in which copper and nickel are used as binding element. These jigs or work pieces for turning possess considerable strength. But the absence of special facilities does not let to obtain the jig density higher than 15 g/cm3.

3. Finally, there are wolfram jigs with cambric and flat that are known by a lot of fishermen as Tula jig.

These jigs are turned from wolfram work pieces that are obtained at a special enterprise. The density of the work piece surpasses 18,0 g/cm3. The hole for fishing line and hook is drilled in the work piece. Cambric is installed into the hole for fishing line, that excludes the fishing line friction against the metal and according the statistics increases the jig life cycle 4 or 5 times. The hook solder is performed on the specially designed equipment the using of which excluded the lack of solder that sometimes lead to the hook fail. The flat grinding assumes itís special sparkling that emphasizes a better bite.

Wide Tula jig production mix (Drop, Pellet, Oat grain, Ant, Puck, Devil) and considerable size assortment give to each fisherman the possibility to choose a jig according to the basin and fish."

Offline GCD

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #45 on: Jan 18, 2011, 12:46 PM »
I knew it!  ;)
Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day, give him a religion and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish... author unknown


Offline igorart7

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #46 on: Jan 19, 2011, 10:48 AM »
In my post I will try to explain essentials of marmyshka. After that you will understand better why wolfram is so important in marmyshka.
Word marmyshka originated from the name of small insect called marmysh. Itís widely spread. It floats at the bottom of lake. And it is at the bottom of food chain for all fish. Shortly ALL marmyshka replicates small insects and croissants existing in the water column. Those insects are very small. Fish detects them mainly because insects vibrate. Fish does not really see marmyshka.
So the key factor in marmyshka is to create certain vibrations which turn fish to bite. This effect was discovered in Russia about 40 years ago. Since that millions of people statistically discovered which shapes, weights and vibration frequencies cause which fish to bite.

Also, especially in the middle of the winter fish gets more lethargic. So it prefers smaller meal to be able to inhale jig but not to chase it.
Imagine somebody had strong pain. He does not want to eat any heavy food, especially if he has to run for that food. He would rather eat something quickly and go sleep. That's one of the cases where small marmyshka became ultimate weapon.

The average weight of marmyshka 0.5 gram, i.e. it is about 1/60 oz. Itís done for purpose. A fish will not feel the weight and will not spit it, ones it inhaled.
Let say you are at the depth of 30 fit. Line creates ďhuge resistanceĒ for such small weight and marmyshka still has to vibrate.

It's known scientific fact that if you increase a surface of jig twice that glides through the water, then the resistance increases 8 times. So it's critically important that geometric size of the same weight must be as small as possible.
It's not really the speed of sinking is critical but smallest possible size. Critical is the smallest possible geometric size capable to keep you line of 4,5, 6 pounds to be straight. That you can fill even the lightest bite. And capable to make 200-300 vibrations per minute of about 1 mm amplitude.

Paint also reduces average density of marmyshka. Plus paint made from polymers. It reduces or changes sound waives emitting from metal to water. I personally prefer not painted ones.
Also where did you see glowing in the dark insects? Does it seem natural for fish?
But as always everything may work under some circumstances.

Solid Russian wolfram is almost twice heavier than the lead, 18/11 to be precise. So you can feel marmyshka at much deeper depth.
Plus it's such an adrenaline when your hand feels the fish pulling your line.

Offline JAZII

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #47 on: Jan 19, 2011, 11:56 AM »
Come fish with me. I will show the difference in lead and tungsten jigs.
I fish for big perch in 35'-45' of water with 2# test floro.
I will out fish you 3 to 1, if you are using lead.
1) I will be able to get the SMALL, RIGHT SIZED jig to the fish depth faster than you.
2) you need the weight of the tungsten to keep the lure size as small as possible, they are finicky.

JAZII

2007 1ST Perch 15 5/16"   2007 1ST Brown Trout 28 3/8"
2008 1ST BlueGill 10 7/8"
2009 2ND Perch 15"
2010 2ND Perch 16 1/8"

Offline Badback

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #48 on: Jan 19, 2011, 12:00 PM »
Great reply Igorart7....The last few weeks I have fished with a couple fellows from Lithuania and they had the non-painted marmyshka with 1 lb test line...These fellows caught 10 times more fish than everyone...They also used a Marmish rod and 99% of the time it was in motion...

Offline OTIS

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #49 on: Jan 19, 2011, 12:13 PM »
Igorart7, do you have any pictures of your jigs?  Are there places on-line to purchase them?
Follow the bubbles...

Offline igorart7

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #50 on: Jan 19, 2011, 12:20 PM »
Great reply Igorart7....The last few weeks I have fished with a couple fellows from Lithuania and they had the non-painted marmyshka with 1 lb test line...These fellows caught 10 times more fish than everyone...They also used a Marmish rod and 99% of the time it was in motion...
Thanks
Lithuanians were my neibours in Russia. We used to fish on the same bay called Kurshkij zaliv.
 
I saw it so many times on my Lowrance HDS5 fish finder. Fish stays near your marmyshka but does not bite. I changed to pattern of vibrating it started biting. Or inhaled marmishka holds it in the mouth and does not move at all.
With proper palm size rod called balalayka and extra sensitive bite indicator called kivok you can easily detect this situation. There is no chance for you to detect it with even lightest Ultra light rod. Because kivok looked like snagged on something.


Offline richstick

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #51 on: Jan 19, 2011, 12:25 PM »
In Eriksat's post above - just so we are all clear - the currently available tungsten jigs here in the US wil almost universally fall into the third category - they are calling it the Tula jig.  The second design is probably more in line with the tin/bismuth mormishka jigs that HT Enterprises used to sell, and some can still be found on various websites as well as that popular auction site.  

New in Cudahay hit the nail right smack dab on the head - you can fish a smaller jig with enough weight to remove line curl.  Go fish an NAIFC event and see how many guys are fishing lead jigs vs. tungsten.  We are fishing probably 95% tungsten - there is a reason for it, and it's not because we love to spend money on jigs.  

How much money do you all have wrapped up in your truck/atv/snowmobile/rods/reels/etc and you balk at buying a few $2 jigs?  I just don't get it - that's why I am laughing :-)

 



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