Author Topic: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!  (Read 12982 times)

Offline jayswimmer09

  • Team IceShanty Maniac
  • **
  • Posts: 3,462
  • flag!!! dont u love that word?
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #60 on: Mar 18, 2008, 11:03 AM »
haha got to love the wrath of iceshanty!!!

Offline SPARKYICE

  • Team IceShanty Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 732
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #61 on: Mar 18, 2008, 12:02 PM »
nightcrawler...brooktr out...!!!???

lobes-
you wouldn't!!

ROFLMAO!!
grandpa told me-"never wrestle with a pig. you both get muddy and the pig likes it".

Offline A- bomb

  • Team IceShanty Maniac
  • **
  • Posts: 2,085
  • THE ORIGINAL...ORIGINAL! Go drop A Bomb on 'em
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #62 on: Mar 18, 2008, 12:07 PM »

here's what the rest of us hoosiers do with trout....we EAT them

90% of the states inland trout our stocked with little to no natural reproduction. Restrictions are inplace to help some browns get a foot hold.
Lack of planning on your part in NO way constitutes an EMERGENCY on mine

Offline MnSportsman

  • Team IceShanty Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 618
  • Striper/White Bass, 3+lbs, Put back down the hole
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #63 on: Mar 18, 2008, 12:13 PM »
Geeez A-bomb.... You're gonna give Mr. Phillips a conniption fit!
;)
   - My Best Hunting & Fishing partner..... 21,Jan.98 - 8,May.07......RIP... We'll be together again.... 

Good Luck!! &  "Watch Your Bobber!"

Offline A- bomb

  • Team IceShanty Maniac
  • **
  • Posts: 2,085
  • THE ORIGINAL...ORIGINAL! Go drop A Bomb on 'em
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #64 on: Mar 18, 2008, 12:33 PM »
STROKE was more what i have in mind....actually i wish no ill will to anyone.

Its all part of being the  bigger person....you know, kinda like not judging others......  to start with!!
Lack of planning on your part in NO way constitutes an EMERGENCY on mine

Offline lindenborn

  • Team IceShanty Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 843
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #65 on: Mar 18, 2008, 12:37 PM »
I sent them my .02$!  I dont think this guy Phillips even took a junior high writing class by the looks of his article!  Man that guy makes me mad and I don't live in Indiana!  Keep pouring it on guys!
Lindy


Offline Retired-UAW

  • Team IceShanty Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 984
  • Personal Best 7 lbs even
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #66 on: Mar 18, 2008, 12:44 PM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Went to this web site  http://www.fwdailynews.com Found a Grip column call "The Fence Post". A lot like IceShanty.com. Maybe some members could sign up and compete with Mr. Phillips.  Use secret code name. Mr. Justice   :laugh:
\\\"WORK\\\" is for people who don`t know how to \\\"FISH\\\"

Offline Art 53

  • Team IceShanty Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 920
  • Good things come to those who bait
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #67 on: Mar 18, 2008, 04:11 PM »
PCB      Elegant Great Job Thank You

Offline Pajns

  • Team IceShanty Maniac
  • **
  • Posts: 1,183
  • YA JUST GOTTA LOVE IT!!!!
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #68 on: Mar 18, 2008, 04:43 PM »
I posted a comment and it said Mr.Philips is out perch fishing...LOL  See what happens when you tell your secret spots!!  After reading all the post members have made...It makes me proud to say I am a Iceshanty member.
NEVER lied about the size of the fish I caught.....just remember them being BIGGER!!

"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why, I dream of things that never were and ask why not"---RFK

Offline PCB

  • Team IceShanty Regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 455
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #69 on: Mar 18, 2008, 06:19 PM »
PCB      Elegant Great Job Thank You
No, thank you... I have a difficult time not using sarcasm ;D
'Its either me or ice fishing' she says... i still have my jiffy

Offline A- bomb

  • Team IceShanty Maniac
  • **
  • Posts: 2,085
  • THE ORIGINAL...ORIGINAL! Go drop A Bomb on 'em
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #70 on: Mar 23, 2008, 08:40 PM »
well just an update and a msg sent to a member......

thanks all   check it out    Indiana general , perch palooza gets bashed!! pg 5 bigbass's post
Lack of planning on your part in NO way constitutes an EMERGENCY on mine

Offline jimmyclaude

  • Team IceShanty Maniac
  • **
  • Posts: 3,419
  • I Have Trouts!!!
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #71 on: Mar 23, 2008, 08:51 PM »
I love it!  Abomb, if you need help eatin those trout.......
Tastes like RockBass<br />                                             \"Official Horticulturalist of the NYRC\"

Offline bridgedoctor

  • Team IceShanty Regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #72 on: Mar 24, 2008, 06:35 AM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Went to this web site  http://www.fwdailynews.com Found a Grip column call "The Fence Post". A lot like IceShanty.com. Maybe some members could sign up and compete with Mr. Phillips.  Use secret code name. Mr. Justice   :laugh:

Here is a copy/paste of the article:


Columnist catches flak from online fishermen
(Created: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:55 AM EDT)

   Last week’s column by outdoor life writer James H. Phillips — in which he took issue with the catch by some ice fishermen posting in the forum of Web site iceshanty.com — took plenty of heat in online comments after a link to the column was posted in that forum. Most of the more than 50 comments received reflected views similar to this post by Nepa Old Man:

   “To bash these guys and ice shanty is unreal. If they are within the law, so be it. I know guys that caught their limit on pan fish many times, and also saw them release just as many, and come home with none. If you don’t know the real story then don’t report on it. As far as [iceshanty.com], it is one, if not the best informational sites for the hard water angler. I have met and fished with a lot of GOOD people on their site.”

   To view other online comments posted on the column and other stories, go to www.fwdailynews.com and click on the “Most Commented” tab.




Our voices are being heard.  Great job everyone!

Offline Mainehazmt

  • Iceshanty Militia
  • Team IceShantyholic
  • *
  • Posts: 9,971
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #73 on: Mar 24, 2008, 07:19 AM »
 :clap: :clap: :clap: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :bow:   Fish on!!!   :icefish: :icefish:
I am a Veteran Not a Terrorist!

Offline pooley

  • Team IceShantyholic
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,069
  • It's cold in here!
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #74 on: Mar 24, 2008, 07:28 AM »
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :clap: :clap: :clap:
rock on shanty!!!!!!!! ;D
 T-7 Custom Rods   OFFICIAL B.BREAKER OF NYRC      i volunteer because your life depends on it! 343

Offline Hando

  • Team IceShanty Regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 462
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #75 on: Mar 24, 2008, 09:05 AM »
I sent Mr. Phillips my comments on how bad we are in NY as well for keeping too many perch.   ;D
"3/4 of the Earth's surface is water, and 1/4 is land. It is quite clear that the good Lord intended us to spend triple the amount of time fishing as taking care of the lawn."

Offline jimmyclaude

  • Team IceShanty Maniac
  • **
  • Posts: 3,419
  • I Have Trouts!!!
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #76 on: Mar 24, 2008, 11:34 AM »
And the paper gets free editorials!
Tastes like RockBass<br />                                             \"Official Horticulturalist of the NYRC\"

Offline bridgedoctor

  • Team IceShanty Regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #77 on: Mar 24, 2008, 11:35 AM »
I sent Mr. Phillips my comments on how bad we are in NY as well for keeping too many perch.   ;D

 ??? ??? ???

Offline river_scum

  • Team IceShanty Maniac
  • **
  • Posts: 4,969
  • hook n cook
real fishermen don't ask "where you catch those"

OANN the real story

- member here since -2003- IN.

Offline jimmyclaude

  • Team IceShanty Maniac
  • **
  • Posts: 3,419
  • I Have Trouts!!!
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #79 on: Apr 04, 2008, 07:00 PM »
Quote
The eruption of venomous indignation that followed the Internet publication of a recent column of mine suggests a short history lesson of the conservation movement is not only appropriate, but sorely needed.

    The column argued the pejorative phrase “fish hog” could reasonably be applied to a pair of ice fishermen who one day kept upwards of 125 yellow perch and then posted a bragging-rights photo of their catch on the Internet.

    It is not my purpose to further involve the two anglers. Rather, it is to address their ice-fishing acolytes who found my “opinion” egregiously wrong, as if I had arrived at my conclusion solely by my own thoughts and in total ignorance of the relevant facts. Indeed, one critic concluded I was a “bonehead.” Importantly, many implied they would keep as many fish if the opportunity arose.

    In reading their comments (posted at www.fwdailynews.com) I was reminded of the Sherlock Holmes case involving the dog that didn’t bark. My critics rarely mentioned “conservation” or “sportsmanship,” the guiding stars of modern angling and fish management. The omission speaks volumes, like the silent dog.

    The conservation movement began in the 1880s in response to the wholesale plunder of our nation’s vanishing stocks of fish and wildlife. Its goal was to restore and maintain bountiful populations, while allowing for a reasonable harvest for anglers and hunters, in order to preserve fishing and hunting for future generations. The movement quickly developed a prestigious following. Among those who rallied to its cause through the decades, and were of importance to anglers, were Theodore Roosevelt, George Bird Grinnell, John Lacey, Will Dilg, Charles Frederick Holder, Aldo Leopold, Frank Mather, Lee Wulff, Ray Scott and, of course, George O. Shields. Those of us who fish today are the beneficiaries of their legacy.

    Initially, the movement focused on eliminating commercial fishing and market hunting. Angling-oriented conservationists thought that removing the economic incentive of the marketplace would halt wholesale netting and allow our fisheries to rebuild, especially on inland lakes and streams. Sadly, this was not always the case.

    Shields, a prominent member of the early conservation movement and publisher of several outdoor-related periodicals, found that while a commercial ban allowed many fish and game animals to avoid an “economic death,” this did not materially increase their chances of survival. Too many hook-and-line fishermen and gun-toting Nimrods failed to exercise restraint. They killed everything possible, eliminating many of the fish and game animals purportedly saved by banning commercial netting and market hunting. This prevented a bountiful recovery. In the early 1900s Shields coined the phrase “game hog” to describe these individuals, a phrase quickly modified to include “fish hogs.” This prompted early conservationists to champion the cause of sportsmanship (a code of individual behavior that urged restraint). They also pressured state legislatures to enact seasons and bag limits.

    Today, the forward edge of conservation calls for each angler to “limit your kill, not kill your limit.”  A minority (principally trout, Atlantic salmon and bass anglers) call for total catch-and-release, the no-kill alternative.

    For the record, I subscribe to the ideals of the conservation movement. In recent years I have released all Atlantic salmon, brown trout and bass, but the same cannot be said for other species, a few of which I keep each year. My annual take-home total today is less than 25 fish. I further recognize that an indeterminate number of fish die that I release. I therefore make no claim to being a catch-and-release purist.

    What is troubling about many of my critics is their ignorance of conservation history, especially their expressed belief that if the law imposes no bag limit, as is the case with yellow perch in Indiana, an angler should not be criticized for taking all he wants, no matter how high the total. The conservation movement has been fighting this mind-set since its inception. It is the reason the phrase “fish hog” came into being 100 years ago. 

    My critics further sought to justify the big bag on biological grounds, asserting that perch populations in our local waters are exceedingly abundant. They argue that yellow perch are so prolific that if anglers didn’t take large numbers, our local lakes soon would be over-run with them, resulting in stunted populations.

    This argument defies scientific credibility. Neil Ledet, the district fisheries biologist for northeastern Indiana, stated that of the 90-plus lakes in our area, only four have what might be considered stunted fish — and these involve bass and bluegills. This suggests local perch populations not only are below optimum, but pose no reproductive threat. It defies logic to suggest that maximizing the kill will somehow restore our suboptimal perch stocks to levels approaching optimal abundance.

    I could continue to address other matters they raised — if the fish are eaten, it is OK; if you go out nine times and catch few or no fish, pigging out on the 10th outing is OK; if a fish population is in trouble, the local fish and game agency will immediately step in to provide a corrective action, and so on. But discussing these arguments would serve no useful purpose, for they are mere abstractions.

    The crux of the issue is conservation. Its focus is far greater than the number of perch once taken by two anglers on an Indiana lake. At its heart, it represents our society’s moral commitment to better stewardship of our lands and waters. As Aldo Leopold so eloquently expressed it nearly half a century ago, “A thing is right when it tends to preserve the integrity, stability, and beauty of the biotic community. It is wrong when it tends otherwise.”

    How many fish might be appropriate to take home is a relative matter. Leopold correctly noted that “the ethics of sportsmanship is not a fixed code, but must be formulated and practiced by the individual, with no referee but the Almighty.”  (Conservationists might argue the Almighty has done a poor job of refereeing.)

    But killing all the perch (or any other species) you might desire on a body of water with a suboptimal population, even if legal, will not “preserve the integrity, stability and beauty of the biotic community” no matter how you try to gloss over it. A history of fish exploitation has proven that.

    On the other hand, if you want to take home an ultra-heavy stringer of perch, you are free to do so. The law allows it. I only suggest you do yourself a favor. Don’t describe yourself to others as a “conservationist” or “sportsman.” It would offend Roosevelt, Grinnell, Lacey, Dilg, Holder, Leopold, Mather, Wulff and Scott, along with many others, including the notable, phrase-coining George O. Shields.

James H. Phillips can be reached at [email protected].   

May as well put it up here.
Did he say we are not worthy to catch fish?
Tastes like RockBass<br />                                             \"Official Horticulturalist of the NYRC\"

Offline Pajns

  • Team IceShanty Maniac
  • **
  • Posts: 1,183
  • YA JUST GOTTA LOVE IT!!!!
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #80 on: Apr 04, 2008, 07:34 PM »
Mr. Phillips has a way with words. If ya catch fish and keep em you ain't a sportsman.....Compared his critics to silent dogs.  Good job Mr. Phillips. Looks like the responses left by many on here made Mr. P a little itchy in his own skin. Funny thing is Mr. P never once said that he was wrong for labeling people who he never met in his life. Only thing I read was he was defending his bias article. Takes a big man to omit when he is wrong. Mr. Phillips you will be in my prayers!!
NEVER lied about the size of the fish I caught.....just remember them being BIGGER!!

"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why, I dream of things that never were and ask why not"---RFK

Offline jimmyclaude

  • Team IceShanty Maniac
  • **
  • Posts: 3,419
  • I Have Trouts!!!
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #81 on: Apr 04, 2008, 07:39 PM »
This guy has to get the last word in doesn't he?
I like the way he twists Teddy Roosevelts Conservation movement to meet his definition. Conservation was to expand and perserve land and habitat for hunting and fishing....Roosevelt was a Conservationist, a hunter and an angler!
Roosevelt was a man's man and it is insulting that mr phillips tries to pass off his agenda by trying to twist the facts. Roosevelt would have tanned his keister
Tastes like RockBass<br />                                             \"Official Horticulturalist of the NYRC\"

Offline mud_n_fun

  • Team IceShanty Maniac
  • **
  • Posts: 3,393
  • Well? Where's the fish!!
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #82 on: Apr 04, 2008, 07:52 PM »
Mr. Phillips has a way with words. If ya catch fish and keep em you ain't a sportsman.....Compared his critics to silent dogs.  Good job Mr. Phillips. Looks like the responses left by many on here made Mr. P a little itchy in his own skin. Funny thing is Mr. P never once said that he was wrong for labeling people who he never met in his life. Only thing I read was he was defending his bias article. Takes a big man to omit when he is wrong. Mr. Phillips you will be in my prayers!!

I hope that those prayers are that people still read his article. Because this is still going on. A persons personal opinion about people that keep 50+ or 100+ fish in a day are still looked apon by the paper readers, who only get there opinions from the paper, and then vote in enviromental regards based upon what they read in an opinion post in the news paper, hurts us all.
As sportsman, we should all stand up.
I have fished bass stunted lakes when the minimum was 12" and you couldn't catch one over 11". And under fished panfish lakes with just dinks.
We need or biologists constantly reviewing our lakes individual health and setting limits accordingly.


But when a limit is set and we adhere to it. Don't look down on us for being sportsmen that eat fish.

Offline Pajns

  • Team IceShanty Maniac
  • **
  • Posts: 1,183
  • YA JUST GOTTA LOVE IT!!!!
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #83 on: Apr 04, 2008, 08:19 PM »
So true Jim. Teddy probably turning over in his grave. I am the first one to stand up and fight for freedoms but when freedoms are abused not used it really irks me. I still can't believe that paper printed the first article and then printed this one. But what can I say...I keep fish so I ain't a sportsman according to Mr. P.         Signed....the silent dog.    The prayers are for Mr. P that he finds peace within himself and quits using his pen as a sword of judgement.
NEVER lied about the size of the fish I caught.....just remember them being BIGGER!!

"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why, I dream of things that never were and ask why not"---RFK

Offline MnSportsman

  • Team IceShanty Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 618
  • Striper/White Bass, 3+lbs, Put back down the hole
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #84 on: Apr 04, 2008, 08:51 PM »
Fellow members, I intend to send this response to Mr, Phillips regarding his latest article. Can I get your input b4 I send it on?
I would like to know if you all think it's too lengthy, or not entirely to the point.. It took me a while to type it, as I don't claim to be a good writer.

Yea, or Nay my friends.. I know there are those here who can do better, but I gave it a shot!


Mr. Phillips,
   After reading this column, I have a few points to address regarding your column this week. I am providing some background about me, for you, and your readers, to possibly let you understand why I have my views, or "opinions", on the subject you are addressing. As your outdoors editor, Mrs. Bevington, so presented, in her article of the  past week; you, Mr Philips, have an "opinion" regarding conservation, and have the right to express it , here on this "e-zine", or elsewhere. It does not appear that I have that same realm of influence as you do, where you are, but in my response here, I am going to try  and express mine.
       I , as my "moniker", or "handle" implies, am from the state of Minnesota, & make claim to be a "sportsman". I have had the wonderful opportunity to fish many states in the US, both the Atlantic & Pacific oceans, & some of the waters of Canada & Mexico. I am also an avid hunter, both of wild game, & of various plants that grow in my area.  Since I am a resident of Minn. , & therefore not a resident of the state of Indiana, many of your readers, who see me present my opinion here, will most likely regard me as an "interloper", or a "busybody".  Basically, as some would define it, , someone who doesn't "mind their own business" , but "minds others' business".  I  do not want to portray myself as such, but there are those who will see me that way. Regardless of that possibility, I am taking the time to type this response. Those who do not want to read further can "turn the page" , or click the "close window" button.

    You surprise me in your article this week, because you take the time to mention those who may have possibly hurt your feelings, or attacked your beliefs, in their "opinion " of your article. And apparently, only because their opinions are contrary to yours. Your readers will see, in hindsight, if not directly apparent to them in your newest article, ( the one I am responding to at this time), it appears as though you only write of them derisively , & do not address them, except as though you are dismissing them "out of hand", as beneath your contempt, for their "view" , or "opinion". You do point out that their views/opinions can be read if someone wants to do so, but , as if the opinions of those who do not agree with your past article, are not "sportsmen", or, "conservation -minded", & should be relegated to "old news", or an area that shouldn't be addressed through your column. Unlike your "diatribe", of your last article, in which you expressed your denunciation of those you called "fish hogs". In the present article ,you attempt to "bypass" those "opinions" of the prior one, attempting to stand on the "moral ground" of conservancy. Your portrayed "opinion & "narrow" view, has seemingly blinded you to the outcry that you created. You sir, should be ashamed of yourself for that, even if your motives are honourable.

    I asked of you, in my response to your last article, that you consider getting more "facts", or information from those you condemn, & give them the opportunity to have their "say". And to also show the "facts" from your states' representative that concurs with your statements. You chose in this article, to just attempt to justify yourself, as one who takes the "higher ground" of morality regarding "conservation", or "sportsmanship"  . Simply advocating "conservation", or "sportsmanship"  through your article doesn't show your worth, sir. It only shows that you "talk the talk" . In fairness, don't you think that addressing the opinions that are opposite of yours & showing those who have those opposite opinions, that they are wrong, by facts, or even some type of example, would be the honourable, or "right" thing to do? That prospect seems only natural to me. If you have the "pulpit" to preach from, through your article & readership, why not accept the fact that, until you can show a better alternative to people, to change their behavior from what they are currently doing. Why should they choose the path that you advocate., when it seems to many, that you are only chastising them for their current behaviors.And doing so with nothing to back you up but your "opinion". Sir, if you do not help to solve the problem, you are part of the problem.
      I could write more, but I think I have done well enough in attempting to convince you, to possibly look at yourself, & say" maybe I should do something to change this situation, than just saying you're "above" it & everyone should follow your "lead".

    Feel free to contact me,  as I included my email address in this response. Just as I did in my last one. I still have not had any indication of discourse from you.

Once again,
 Respectfully Submitted, If it is deserved,

MnSportsman   

P.S>- In the picture that accompanies your article, the fellow that has the nice stringer of fish, apparently took fish when they were vulnerable , because they were spawning.. I wonder what his thoughts are about conservancy & sportsmanship. Even a little kid can catch fish when they are spawning(nesting).         
   - My Best Hunting & Fishing partner..... 21,Jan.98 - 8,May.07......RIP... We'll be together again.... 

Good Luck!! &  "Watch Your Bobber!"

Offline InSearchOfPerch

  • Team IceShanty Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 525
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #85 on: Apr 04, 2008, 09:31 PM »
Notice his reluctancy to use the term selective harvest....words that represent a combination of keeping fish for the table and practicing catch and release.  I posted a letter here on another thread to his editor Cindy...and you know for a fact...that this writer and his editor BOTH read this forum...that is why he felt compelled to write the foillow up article...it was not simply the letters sent.  His insecurity in recognizing others opinions as being more than people saying he is wrong drives him to visit this site.  Those same insecurities prevent him from recognizing some others as having a better way of describing what it means to be a sportsman.  A better way of convincing both extreme sides of the issue that the only true answer lies somewhere inbetween.  I will paste the previous letter I wrote to Cindy and hope that he reads it once again.  If he does stop by the site here...dont skim through the following words...READ THEM.  You say none of the letters opposing your opinion article mentioned sportsmenship, etc.  Read....stop writing and loathing long enough to take someones else's viewpoint into consideration.  Its perhaps possible it may be from someone who has a little more life experience and background on the subject than you do.

______________________ ___

 

Dear Cindy,
 
Thank you for responding to the obvious flood of comments from both sides of the issue.  And I too agree that you dont lynch someone for an opinion.  Everyone has one, although most of us dont have the venue of a newspaper to sling shot ours at everyone else.  I'm sure given the opportunity, none of us would pass on the chance. 

What I find interesting is that even you took the chance to question Jim's reasons for writing the article.  Condemning Jims opinion and questioning Jims reasoning for writing the article are two entirely different things.  You wondered whether he had ever experienced a day of success or partaken in a fish fry with others where the fish may of been caught in one day.  So obviously you do see the direction alot of the strong feelings came from after reading Jim's article.  The part I dont understand is why both Jim AND you only see fit to represent the views of two extreme sides of the angling world.  After years of fishing since I was a small kid, I have developed the belief that a true sportsman understands that neither 100% catch and release NOR 100% Catch and kill, or as Jim and yourself term it "fish Hogging" is the correct answer to responsible conservation.  A true sportsman recognizes the opportunities and the situations that call for one or the other.  Responsible selective harvest is exactly that...Selective AND Responsible.  The angler selects the appropriate decision to harvest a fish, or release it, after carefully considering the lake they are fishing, the size of the fish, the number of fish they have already caught, whether they will be able to use the fish for consumption or give it to someone that would appreciate it for the same reason, etc.  Sometimes these decisions lead us to keep a number of fish, for a fish fry, or to help thin out an overpopulated lake and give the fillets to friends or family.  A picture of these fish should be able to tell a tale...one that isnt automatically categorized by your and Jim's standards as being a fish hog.  You preach two brands of angling in your article, catch and release...or FISH HOG. 

Here is a quote from the article...
  In Jim’s defense, devout catch-and-release anglers are some of the most fastidious of the water world. They usually are conservators of the environment and pristine in their methods.

    On the flip side, the same can be said of fish-hoggers; the only difference is that they don’t throw their fish back.
_____

Instead of promoting these two extreme methods of total release or kill everything....why not take the respectable route...one that shows anglers as most of them are...responsible people who care enough about the fisheries they fish and recognize when one method or the other should be applied.  To take an angler who falls into this category and label them as either a "release everything" kind of angler, or kill everything kind of angler, is a waste of newspaper space.  Articles spent condemning one side or the other are not beneficial to the sport. Because neither side of the arguement practiced alone is the responsible choice.   An article describing the delicate balance that should be practiced and recognizing those situations and things that should influence an anglers decision to keep a fish or not would be a better use of your news papers outdoor section. 

And one last thing, another good measure of a true sportsman is their ability to accept that not everyone will choose to be a responsible outdoorsperson.  Its unfortunate, but it is what it is.  The state will sell any fool a license to fish, its up to us to educate ourselves through information we read on forums, magazines and news papers to prepare ourselves to make responsible decisions.  Jims article did not help that process at all.  And I think you know that.

Jeff Harding
Sioux Falls, SD

____________


Offline Pajns

  • Team IceShanty Maniac
  • **
  • Posts: 1,183
  • YA JUST GOTTA LOVE IT!!!!
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #86 on: Apr 04, 2008, 09:52 PM »
The defination for sportsman is as follows.....1  A man or woman who is interested in or takes part in sports, esp. in hunting, fishing, etc.     2  A person who can take loss or defeat without complaint, or victory without gloating, and who treats his oppenents with fairness, generosity,courtesy,respect,etc.  I can't find where it says if you follow the laws and obey them that you are not a sportsman by keeping your limit. Some of the fish I catch and animals I hunt have fed many people who have been struggling in these hard times we are experiencing. I myself enjoy a good fish dinner or vension chilli now and then. Those fish that are in the freezer will be eaten and I will grin from ear to ear while doing it. Mr. P needs to quit judging people and look in the mirror. Like that say when your pointing a finger at someone...three are pointing back at you.
NEVER lied about the size of the fish I caught.....just remember them being BIGGER!!

"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why, I dream of things that never were and ask why not"---RFK

Offline InSearchOfPerch

  • Team IceShanty Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 525
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #87 on: Apr 04, 2008, 10:20 PM »
I agree pajns...as i have reread his article several times, I find myself asking over and over...where does his ethical limit of toleration exist?...Granted, some may cringe when they see 125 perch in a pic...given.  I dont think its wrong to catch that many on some of the lakes we fish, but I also can see where a few may have a differing opinion.  I respect that.  But the way he has laid his article out, I have to wonder how many fish in a pic is the threshold of his opinion of being ethical...would 50 make him cringe?...30?..10?  Conservationists such as those he mentioned beleived that control by harvest was the answer.  The way to keep any fishery healthy was to implement a system of care for the waterways that involved HARVEST to some extent.  But to what extent is he ok with?  Can an angler take a kid out and catch 40 perch and drop a dozen or so off at Grandpa's house without falling into the trap he has set as being labeled a fish hog by his standards? 

I see the same dozen boats fishing a certain lake every day...and even if they each only keep 5 or 6 fish each time, do they not have the same impact as the angler that fishes that lake once every two weeks and keeps a couple dozen and remain in the legal boundaries afforded to him?  That same "once every two week angler" may very well of released every fish he has caught the previous three or four trips...But if Jim saw the pic of him with his couple dozen fish he wouldnt know that...do you know why he wouldnt know that?...because he never did the research of asking him before he judged him.  Especially before he judged him in his op-ed article in a public venue such as that newspaper. 

If a circuit court judge saw a picture of Jim at a bar sitting at a table that had a few empty glasses on it...would it be ok for the judge to put out a warrant for his arrest based on the notion that "he must of been too intoxicated to drive?"  And even further, plaster Jim's picture on a poster and hang it up all over saying dont be this guy...he drinks and drives?  Most would see that as unfair judgement and irresponsible corralation of duty since he never investigated the matter as it pertained to the subject in the picture.  You cant throw people under the bus for something like that...not without knowing the facts. 

 Promoting the cause of conservation and selective harvest...and subjects such as sportsmanship, stewardship etc. involves a form of informing others that is useful, correct in subject matter, supported by facts, and most importantly, put into words that inspire you to want to do the right thing.  Jim has accomplished none of these.  I wonder if Jim has ever written an article bashing the Indiana DNR for not setting forth lower limits for perch.  If he was to do that, he would have to come to the table with a set of facts that support his position and opinions.  He would have to show that the lakes are in danger of reaching a balance that is detrimental to perch populations.  He would also have to show that there is not enough "sportsmen" practicing volunteer ethical harvest.  And he couldnt do that.  It would involve him having to actually work.  It would involve him coming to the realization that for every fishermen doing harm to the waterways, there are probably 30 more doing it good.  And those 30 more, he ignores them in his articles.  He makes no mention of them.  For they are the sportsmen practicing the balance of harvest and Cand R that is necessary to keep those lakes healthy.  For Jim, it is much easier to target anglers he feels dont fall into his standards he has publicly set forth.  This requires no investigation, no work, no taking responsibility for the claims he makes, etc.  It is much easier to target an angler posting a pic without knowing the facts of the matter, or knowing that anglers habits of selective harvest.  Its easy to judge the book by the cover....it takes time and work to sit down and read it.  I feel bad for the readers in Indiana who have to rely on Jim to guide them in informing them to make their own opinions.  Jim has a position that affords him the opportunity to benefit the sport immensly, but he abuses it by verbally vomiting on his readers.  Do the Indiana readers of your paper a favor Jim, put a fork in it.

Offline Jack Ryan

  • Team IceShanty Regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #88 on: Apr 04, 2008, 11:02 PM »
He's nothing but a PETA moron and troll who's foung a "fan" base he can goad in to showing the popularity and expansive readership his column reaches.

If you really want to hurt this guy there is an easy way to do it. Don't call the paper you just show his boss how many readers he is drawing in.

Call the paper's advertisers who supply the guy and his paper with a pay check. Tell them you are an ethical sportsman and resent the implications their advertising dollars are supporting. Tell them you will find merchants who are more appreciative of you and your money so long as they continue to finance the paper's anti fishing and sportsman publications. There are plenty of competetors of their's out there who would appreciate my business who don't financially support this person's opinions and provide him with a platform to insult me.

I guarantee you when the paper's advertisers start calling the editor and asking what the heck he thinks he's doing and they aren't going to pay for advertising in a  publication that drives their customers away, this guy will be printing a retraction and apologising or be fired and the paper apologising mighty darn quick. I know it for a  fact how quick that works because I've done it with no more than the 10 people I worked with and the Bob and Tom radio show was stumbling all over them selves and "explaining" what they really meant by noon the same day the shot off their smart mouth. Tell me how many times you've heard that smart aarsee Tom Griswald apologise on the air? He sure did that day and all it took was a list of all their advertisers we could remember, a phone book, one telephone and about 5 - 10 of use taking turns making calls to their paying advertisers.

We never made that first call to the radio station just spent our time contacting the people and companies who supplied their "pay checks".
"Be the one you want to catch"

Offline PCB

  • Team IceShanty Regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 455
Re: INDIANA NEEDS HELP....ICE SHANTY.com BEING BASHED!!
« Reply #89 on: Apr 05, 2008, 12:10 AM »
Once again... the PCB opinion

Mr. Phillips;

You are correct in saying, "omission speaks volumes" as you have shown in your article yet again.  Not only have you shown that in your neck of the woods there are few stunted fish, you have failed to show why other species may not be stunted.  Did you bother to ask the fisheries biologist why other species are not stunted?  Could it be that a proper and manageable harvest is sustained on a yearly basis in order to keep the populations balanced?  The answer relies on biology and ecology, not your opinion.  "This suggests local perch populations not only are below optimum" .... but does biology suggest this or do you suggest this.  Once again you have managed to twist and turn the truth in order to satisfy your own needs.  Many lakes will never reach their optimum as it is a very fine line between stunted and low carrying capacity levels.

Conservation has done us wonders and has allowed many sportsmen to enjoy the outdoors as we do today.  Your annual fish claim of date may be 25 but you have no doubt affected 10 times that amount of people by slandering the outdoors as you see fit to conserve.  That number of perch may be excessive for one particular outing, yet you have failed to research the effects the small number of perch may have on one of your local lakes.  It may have large scale differences on a lake that is 20 acres vs. a lake that is 200 acres.  Once again you have provided fuel to the fire for the antis.  You have failed to mention the overall impact of fishing and hunting is to create a balance.  The man keeping 50 fish is no different than you keeping 0 as long as it helps maintain a balance.

By now you may have the opinion that I am a fish hog because I defend these individuals but I assure you I am not.  I believe in taking only what I will use, no matter how bountiful the quarry.  Leopold, Thoreau, Roosevelt, etc have had solid arguments, but name dropping does not make you any more of a sportsman or any more correct in your arguments.  Who is to say this isnt an isolated day of fishing that was extremely abundant and bountiful?  Have you any quotes from others who argue that if it weren't for fishermen harvesting their limits the lakes in your are would be negatively affected?

You are for the most part a catch and release fishermen, according to your acclaim, which is good news for sportsmen.  If I was fishing next to you and had every one of the fish you caught and released on a stringer, would you think any less of me?  My generation has grown up with catch and release fishing, and has improved fisheries overall but ask and true biologist and he will say that strictly catch and release fishing is actually a downfall to a fishery.

While in your most recent article you make a few valid points (most of which were said by other people) you have failed to stake claim to your arguments involving biological feats such as birth control.  Whatever happened to claiming your word and following through on it.  You claim the original article was truly about conservation, yet how does your example of birth control fit in with fisheries biology?

My suggestion to you Mr. Phillips is to research true biology instead of utilizing one quote from a regional biologist.  After understanding the true nature of fisheries, then make your opinion.  As Leopold once said “Harmony with land is like harmony with a friend; you cannot cherish his right hand and chop off his left.”  You my friend are chopping at the left and cherishing the right.

PCB
'Its either me or ice fishing' she says... i still have my jiffy

 



Iceshanty | MyFishFinder | MyHuntingForum
Contact | Disclaimer | Privacypolicy | Sponsor
© 1996- Iceshanty.com
All Rights Reserved.