What do people think about the Presumpscot river stockings...

[Sir Catchalot]

I think it is a little ridiculous that they stocked about .6% of the entire state stockings into that river. (I did the calculations)  I mean come on, there were 55 entries in the stocking report for that river,  Most of which go into the "fishin hole" on route 35 in windham. I just wondered what the general concensus was as far as that whole deal goes.

The part that p's me off the most is that its flyfishing only.  I think if they are going to put that many fish into the river then flyfishermen/women should have to pay an extra fee to fish in those rivers.  How many ice-fishing only ponds do you see??

I hope other people see this differently than I do because it isnt making sense to me

[toguebuster]

well i guess ill be the first to tackle this one ,im not afraid of the heat.first of all iam a flyfisherman.second does .6 % bother you that much . its time for you to take out your calculator and figure what percentage of fish go into general law sections ,and and what percentage of water is general law.i have fished it and its one of the only rivers that still has fish in it as well as the pleasant .because for the most part its catch and release.its bad enough that you get to dunk your worms and live bait in about every good spot in maine ,you cry when they give fly fisherman a place to go and actually catch a fish a month after the truck arrives. so.maine is managed for put and take ,andboy  do the general law people take .usually more than thier share, then they come to ffo and artificial only rivers and take all those too,ive caught my share of people,sometimes toting kids along teaching them to make thier own rules.we dont even have catch and release lakes .look at other states with awesome fishing its usually the ffo waters that have it .,due to the ethics . now im not knocking the way you fish to each thier own,and thier are great people out there with great ethics and they dont carry a flyrod,but to knock me and want me to pay more .thats absurd .i do my share to protect and preserve ,im paying enough.i pick an average of 25-50 worm containers a year ,as well as other trash . i volunteer when i can to difw.that river bring in revenue for the state i have met flyfisherman from all over fishing thier ,and for the most part some of the nicest anglers i know.if your that concerned go and fish north gorham pond if you want a piece of the action thats where most of the fish end up.and you can ice fish it . and to make a statement like there are no ice fishing only ponds is idiotic. yea shut down a pond for 9 months ,but open for three. good way to bring money to the state. with that mentality im sure you think catch and release is bad too as well as trohpy waters .with all the mercury in our fish you cant eat many any way why not throw them back .or have a river like the presumpscot that is ffo,and lots of fish.so we can have at least one river out of all the ones that are general law to fish and catch fish all the time .one out of how many? is it really that unfair? .6%,thats a drop in the bucket.maybe you need to stop whining and pick up a flyrod. im sorry for my attitude if it offends anyone!but i am a strong believer in catch and release ,and  an avid flyfisherman and as a whole we do more good ,than harm its about time the state rewards us with a place to call our own!!!!!!!!!one out of thousands.

[Bluefinforme]

when they put these in who cares!!!!

[Frozen_nutts]

Here we go againTB with the persoanl attacks.....wow  Take your Prozac!

[toguebuster]

no personal attacks ,just stating facts again which people should do before posting such bull !get your facts first .complainig about to much fish,i do need prozac for that one!i did not attack any individuals personally. just a mentality .come on too much fish ,whats next ,our lakes have to much fish lets kill em ,where does it end !!!

[bluewinger]

well now i've seen a lot of people who complain about stocking programs but this is a new one for me. complaining about too many fish bein pu t into a watershed.
when you look at the amount of fish that are stockrd into general law waters and then compare it to the amount stocked into ffo waters,you'll see that the amount of fish stocked is way over done in the favors of the general law fisherman or woman . then compare the amount of ffo waters to general law waters hmmmm.... wheres the balance there ?
i understand that you guys wanna catch fish as well as the next guy but to go to one of the only ffo waters in southern maine and complain abouit the amount of fish stocked it seems absurd. it should be the other way around as to who should pay more!! most flyfisherman practice catch n release so it seems that the ppl who benefit from this activity are ther general law ppl.i'm a flyfisherman and i practice CNR on general waters that i do fish (only in the early season for the remainin holdovers- after that there usually empty by the end of may till the next stocking).
TB is right, the amount of fish stocked in the presumpscot (one of what? 2 or 3 places in southern maine restricted to ffo) is a drop in the bucket.
come fish the presumpscot see why the state stocks that many fish . maybe you can help us pick up the worm containers we find along the streambank. or you can fish the pond it's general law (after all the presumpscot is only what  a quarter mile long if it's lucky).
and jus so you know i do still pick up an ultra lite rod and dunk some worms and in  one of the only lil streams that still hold true native brookies in southern maine but they all still go back.
so bfore you go sayin charge fly fisherman more money take an actual look at the real numbers of fish bein stocked into these ffo waters (actually water) and you will see the disperity is actually in the favor of the general law waters

[toguebuster]

nice fish ,bluefin. gotta love that river great fall fishing . do you fish the ogunquit or mousam . some real nice bangers in there too!

[Bluefinforme]

nice fish ,bluefin. gotta love that river great fall fishing . do you fish the ogunquit or mousam . some real nice bangers in there too!

i fish the mousam a few times a year...you?

[toguebuster]

oh yea ,will be there in march ,i have friends that fish all year they say fish rise to midge all winter!
we ,may have got off on the wrong foot ,but i think we need to hook up sometime!

[bobbi]

Mr Toguebuster, 
you want facts... consider this....  every single body of water in this state is fishable by the FF crowd... period.  The best trout waters are reserved for the FFO crowd....  period!!!   There are No ice fishing only waters(IFO) in this state... period!!!   There are NO bait fishing only waters(BFO) only in this state... period!!!  In fact I think I should be able to have access to a couple of remote ponds where I could ski or snowshoe into, where there is trophy trout available, where I can enjoy the winter wonderland and a good day fishing knowing that it is offlimits to the spring crowd winding fancy colored string thru the air with a expensive fly(tied in Singapore using slave child labor) and cleaning out the pond....period!!!  I could go on... you speak of the C&R ethics... that's a bunch of !@ap... the real truth is it would be better known as C&W&R(catch,wound,release).  It has forever bothered me that these fish are "entertainment" for the FFO crowd, in fact I think that the PETA and USHS crowd has it right when they raise the C&R issue as being questionable ethics and abuse of the fish.  They have more respect for the C&K approach.  I'm of the old school, if you don't intend to consume the game.....  YOU LEAVE IT ALONE...PERIOD!!!!  I'm also pretty hardcore, in your face, anti-elitist who believes there is room for everyone to enjoy their own persuasion... without pointing a finger at the other guy.... unless he decides to start a squabble.  I enjoy FF, but I also enjoy the end result of a good trout fillet streamside.  Mercury was also mentioned....  you know of anyone who have perished from eating Mercury laden fish in Maine... or maybe a child suffering from contamination because Momma had a fish fry while she was incubating the "papoose"?? 

Maybe you should check out
www.rochester.edu/pr/releases/med/mercury.htm   or
my.webmd.com/content/article/73/81954.htm
The mercury scare is a lie!!!!   The lead researcher at the University of Rochester, G.J.Myers,MD, told WebMD: "We found no evidence that women who ate a LOT of fish during pregnancy put their unborn children at risk."  I don't begrudge the stocking or the restricted area for the FFO crowd... just stop b***hing about the other guy breaking the law... call the Warden and take notes or evidence and be ready to testify in court... that solves the problem and you all can participate!!!!   
This $.02 from Bobbi

[MikeMunn]

Hmmm.....  This has what to do with ice fishing?  Strings like this are why I abandoned the nesportsman.com message board.  Calm down guys or move to MA.   Nice fish Bluefin!  Tight Lines and Prozac for all!  Mike

[dirk327]

tb, look where the population is in the state. any day you do by the "fishin hole" there are always people there.  No matter what time of year.  I think every person that fly fishes in southern Maine had at least tried that presumpscot river.  You have to keep the people that keep this state running happy.
     

[dirk327]

Bluefin, that is a gorgeous fish, reminds me of fishing in the allagash as a kid, nice colors

[dirk327]

 sorry tb, meant to direct that comment towards sir catchalot..........too much beer...........

[Phoenix]

Very nice trout Bluefin. From the glazed look in your eyes, the death grip you have on the fish, and the fact that its head is bent back so severely I would guess you kept it?

[nitro04106]

well i think it`s time for you to learn how to fly fish and catch fatties in the presumpscott like me and blue... then you`ll be bi tching about your line caught in the tree not the way the state does there stocking since they have been doing that to that river for well over 12 years now give it a try.......    

[toguebuster]

no prob dirk ,some people dont get it .well bobbi, i hope you dont eat fish from the androscoggin ,cuzit mightbe clogging your mind,well, you might be a redneck .....if you think c&r is catching a fish and putting it in the bucket. i have no problem with keeping fish ,i just said we tend to release more fish. and that is a fact ,the peta thing i wont even go there . if your going to support peta,then you will lose . ihave caught and released a fish three times in one year ,the fish do not die ,they have mostly cartilage ,and a fly is more likely to get caught in a lip not the belly. ask bluefin how many stripers or sharks he has tagged and how many were caught again .they dont die ,not most of the fish anyway.the point is i dont care how you fish ,worms ,crickets ,pork, livers whatever ,just dont ask me to pay more cuz i whip a fancy line through the air,and my flies dont come from singapore ,i tie them myself in the good ol USA.if you want trophy trout and it to be remote try allagash lake no motorized vehicles allowed no augers ,no live bait ,there your winter wonderland.the reason the state puts fisheries to ffo is due to low mortality rates of fish caught an released,as well as we manage ourselves. thats why  there is good fishing in these places like the roach R. or the kennebago.,or w.branch of the penobscot.just to name a few. some of the best fisheries are ffo,and there not good because they are th best waters ,its because we do let them go.so they get bigger an maybe even spawn.most ffo have betterfisheries also because they dont need to be stocked native populations can thrive,small trout ponds cant survive general law without stocking,or very stringent laws ,too many anglers too little fish.some of the best size and quality fish producing lakes that are general law could produce moreand betterfish, if they were heavily regulated.like ffo or c&R or even slots. and to say we clean lakes out is just absurd,90% of dedicated flyfisherpeople ,release fish. not keep. again if you want to keep fish thats your right ,and go ahead,i keep throwing them back thatswhat i do period!but to even say we should pay more is a joke . and by the way ,i have turned many an angler in for fishing in ffo , .i once had a guy walk dow the lily bay road in greenville ,heading towardsthe roach river with a bucket of smelts,proceeded to fish when its clearly marked on the bridge.FFO. i told him he couldnt use live bait ,read the sign,he said so what are you gonna do about it! that attitude is what i was talking about.and if you have ever reported to 1800 POACHER..... you would know you dont have to testify. you just call ! you need to get out of the dark ages and come into the new milennium,preverve for the future generations. have fun out there keep as many as you want i dont care ,just leave me and my waters alone and keep your worms out !!!!!!!!

[Jig Master]

 Where to start ? Well ill try to make a few points Sir catchalot, I really dont have a problem with the numbers of fish stocked in the presumpscot and you should not either. my reasoning being that there is few trout rivers in the southern part of the state and most all of them will not support reproduction or enough of it for the amount of people who fish them.So to have any fishing it needs to be stocked.This is a common thing in the west and other states with high population areas.   To cut down on the illegal stuff Maybe it should be made  A.L.O.? I would also like to see the Brood stock size fish spread around a little more evenly or placed in to Childerns only waters instead of placing such a high number in to one water body.

 Togue Buster,
     you might not have attacked any one but you sure did point a lot of fingers at them. Your rant was more like  one long whine. First almost every mayjor river in this State is either FFO or ALO and not general law as you imply. Yes C&R can work when properly done. Unfortunately to many angler types do not do it correctly light rods, light lines and leaders long stressful battles and the constant fishing that goes on in high temperture ponds or rivers and long photo sessions negate most gains from it.
There is also a vast difference between C&R on Sharks and Stripers than Trout and Salmon. Even C&R bait fishing on Sharks and Stripers works well.

 If you research what Bobbi said  you will find that Wayne Pacelles of Peta has made some verying telling statements about what he and Peta belive and it will be just a matter of time before they come after C&R fishing. Stick your head in the sand if you want to but they will come after it. Pacelles has stated it.
   
The new studies being done on Mercury are also quite interesting if you take the time to read them, and were done at a very respected School. You may not like the message but as you stated facts are facts .

 I am also quite sure that in todays special interest driven society.  That Ice fishing only,Bait fishing only and lure only waters Can and will happen and is happening already. we already have set the standards with FFO waters C&R waters and Childerns only waters . Can you see the trend? so you may get more C&R waters in the future but you can bet the other guy is going to get his too! Hell the worst lawyer out there could win that arguement in court where every thing  seems to be settled now.

While you may belive that certain waters are what they are because of a regulation which can and do alter things. The facts are that some waters have always and will always be better than others regardless of the regulations. Take the Roach you say its good because its FFO and C&R  I say its a seasonal fishery mostly for Spawing purposes for a large Lake that is General Law. The fish for the most part spend the year in the Lake and just a few weeks in the river. As you said the facts are the facts. Can are fisheries improve if people limit there kill absolutely. they also can degrade with not enough kill say the Kennebago which has been documented this year to have a mayjor problem with stunted fish that are parasitic A large Smelt population and the mayjority of the smelt base to large for feed purposes.Fact Dispite the large Smelt base Salmon rarely grow larger than 18inches. Maybe it should be opened to Smelting ?

Like you I also detest the poacher but to imply that all Bait anglers are poachers is not right.  many a Flyfisherman has been summosed by the men in green for quetionable ethics also over the years.

 Like you I do not care how you fish or what you keep I only ask that you follow the rules and throw a few back for the next guy Rock on.
                       Jig Master  

 

     

[Niner]

Hey,

If you want access to all those fish that are being dumped into the presumpscot, you don't have to flyfish.  You can fish North Gorham Pond.

I've landed several brookies like bluefin's and Nitro's, not to mention several broodstock salmon, both flyfishing on the river, and fishing the pond.

That's the heaviest stocked river in the state, and has been for years.  A good number of the fish end up in North Gorham Pond.

[Annie]

wow... very large paragraphs to read.... i have a headache now! lol

hint: spaces for easy reading works great! hehe

no comment on topic except to say... but i do eat the mercury laden fish... out of sabattus.... yum... and i'm still here... my mom and dad who lived here prior to me ate what they caught too.  and my memere and pepere before me... same spot of land... same lake... yummy eats..

[Bluefinforme]

does this mean I can't attach a live smelt on my grey ghost anyomre???  no wonder I catch so many up there

[Jig Master]

 Togue Buster,
        I belive that any one who fishes stocked waters should pay more for that right wether you are a bait fisherman or flyfisherman period to help offset the cost of these programs if you are utilizing them. Do you think that you are the only person who picks up after slob anglers? Just most of us do it and dont whine about it.

I never said that i belived or disbelived in the mercury reports I stated that they were interesting and from a respected school. You and others can decide for your selfs what you want to belive. Annie makes a good point though. Can you name one example of a person in this state that has died from, or become ill from eating the supposed mercury and heavy metal laden fish and game of the State.Hmmmm...

Think what you want to about Peta I suggest that you talk with people around the country to see what they have already accomplished. Its not a matter of if it happens but,When it happens.

You can spin it any way that you want but most mayjor rivers of name or historic value in this state have been protected with FFO or ALO in the Trout carrying areas. over half of the Kennebec is open to Bait fishing ? Well i dont know about that I do know that the Tail water sections are where the Trout are though and they are protected. Togueie take off your rose colored glasses all of the rivers that you mention are opened to bait fishing in the areas where you are least likely to find Trout.But most likely to find Perch and Bass. your argument is silly and foolish.

Ah yes The favorite argument of the flyfisherman Montana Do you really want me to take a look at the land of Ten millon Stocked fish? I personaly dont care what they do there I do care what they do here though!!!

Well guy I never said C&R didnt work. when it is done properly it does when it is not which happens alot it does not .And yes Latic acid build up is a factor in warm water. dont belive it try diving in a trout pond in july and look at the bottom. just because they swim off does not mean they live some times it takes a week or more. if you caught five salmon in the pool below the Dam on the Roach in mid July shame on you. Fisherman in montana would refrain from fishing in poor water conditions such as those found at the Roach in July.

Id rather cut off my casting arm than be a TUer I am in the Maine ICE Anglers though.

 The Roach and Moosehead comparison is a chicken and the egg thing . If you really wanted to do what was best for them fish you wouldnt fish them in Sept when they are there most vunerable . But  hey if you want to belive that the mayjority of the fish are there year round so be it hope you and all five Salmon have fun.

you need to lighten up dude your way to defense. There is alot of room for every one but dont think that your getting shorted because your not, Its a big pie and everyone gets a piece. you can fish your prefered method on any water in the State others can only fish where they are allowed That is a FACT!!!!!. If you are displeased with things in the South you always have the option to move to more favorable areas as does every one.

         JigMaster
   

[toguebuster]

jigmaster,   never did i say that i was unhappy inthe south ,i love the presumpscot,the pleasant the ogunquit,and mousam,to name a few . i enjoy the state of maine and well there is only few other places i would live.....nor am i whining about that or picking up trash,apparently you missed the point ,once again i was stating that i do more than my share ,so why should i pay more!...............shame on me for catching those fish ,so what your saying is we should all stop fishing after june hang up the rods and drink lemonade come on !i am very careful with all fish i catch ,they generally are released unharmed.............. .....mercury no one has died ,but how do you know what damage it may cause further in life ,it attacks the nervous system ,who knows maybe some dreaded diseases such as alzheimers could be linked ,or other neurological diseases ,i wont take that chance !!!!!......... and last we both apparently love the outdoors and have views that the other doesnt ,it doesnt matter to me .im happy to see someone that is at least interested in issues that should concern anglers .there is nothing wrong with good healthy debates.on that note i applaud you................i do however firmly disagree and will continue to do it the way i always have C&R and that is the wave of the future like it or not! i would do anything for this great fishery we have and continue to help in anyway ican. TIGHT LINES

[moosehunter]

why don,t you 2 pm each other and save us all this reading.

[Swampbucks1]

If you want to complain about a river being overstocked, then b**** to DIF&W.

If the PIke are in Sebago like we are being told they are, it won't be long before that river is NEVER stocked.  Enjoy it while you can, b/c we'll be telling our kids, like my grandfather did about the salmon in Sebago, 'Son/daughter there used to be 20+" 30+" salmon/brookies/browns in that river, till someone threw a few pike in Sebago. 

I would think that the Presum.  Is stocked so heavily, a.) increased revenue's in the area Spring/fall
b.) the river runs over 30miles to the atlantic c.) it's one of the few FFO C&R sections of the whole Presum. 

DId you know fall 2003 they stocked over 2600 brown trout in the Little river (Gorham)?  hmm. what other river does it connect to?  Oh, yeah the Presumcott.   

I'd found that stat a little startling till I realized it made a bee line down the road in Gorham to connect w/the Presum near the Mallison Falls connection.  All which is fishable w/out a fly rod.  Spin tackle welcome.  I love to sit there some spring nights and catch 2dozen or so browns when the guy on the side is using spin tackle or dunking worms and have 0 luck.  THAT's WHAT I LIKE BEST..  to Show them up a bit.

[toguebuster]

dont worry moose ! i have said my piece! no use beating a dead horse , you know you didnt have to read it .

[moosehunter]

i guess i just can,t help myself. i always read anything that has to do with fishing.

[Sir Catchalot]

Dont mean to light the fire again...but...

Just found some interesting (not really) information:

There are some 204 bodies of water in maine that are FFO, and that just grabs me the wrong way!

My source:
http://www.maineflyfishing.com/ffowater.htm

I know what you are all going to say "start flyfishing" but honestly I have enough crap to do and stuff to spend money on...I dont think there should be THAT many FFO waters...imagine if they treated them all like the presumpscot!?

[Bluefinforme]

Dont mean to light the fire again...but...

Just found some interesting (not really) information:

There are some 204 bodies of water in maine that are FFO, and that just grabs me the wrong way!

My source:
http://www.maineflyfishing.com/ffowater.htm

I know what you are all going to say "start flyfishing" but honestly I have enough crap to do and stuff to spend money on...I dont think there should be THAT many FFO waters...imagine if they treated them all like the presumpscot!?

it's not worth it to crap on fly-fishing.......why?  Do you not have the skills   It's easier than casting a spinning reel.....It's not expensive either.....pick up a fly rod at wal-mart and give me a call.....I guarentee you will be hooked.....so no more about fly fishing.....what's the point?  to fire people up?  I am done so before I go.....

[Sir Catchalot]

Even if I did flyfish I wouldnt go to a spot that gets that much pressure...

Its not the persona of a true sportsman to go down to the fish dump and "catch a few"

I am saying why not spread those fish out a little rather than cram them all into one place and restrict it to all but one type of fishermen from going there

We all pay for those fish in one way or another and there arent any waters that ban flyshermen (maybe there should be).  I have been hooked by a flyboy on one occasion, and have had more close calls