IceShanty.com's Ice Fishing Community
IceShanty Main => General Ice Fishing Chit Chat => Topic started by: DTro on Nov 26, 2018, 08:40 AM
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I know these aren't new and I also know many people have been refilling the disposable (Coleman) tanks for a long time without any issues but I wanted to try it anyways. I believe this option is currently the only tank DOT approved for refilling. It worked exactly how it was supposed to and was very easy. Time will tell if the quality is there to withstand a few seasons of ice fishing rigors, but first impression is that it is pretty awesome. I'll be sure to update with any problems or issues i come across. I've burned a few tanks in the Big Buddy messing around in the garage. So far so good!
&t=49s
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I have one and it works great !!
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Yeah its easier than filling up the disposable tanks.gets them full too.
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Good video! Thanks for sharing! Was thinking about getting this kit. Now I will for sure.
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One more thumbs up for new flame king fill up :tipup:
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Thanks for sharing I'll have to get a few. Been refilling the disposable ones for years.
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Thanks
At this point, to me the biggest unknown is how long before any of these valves begin to leak. Are they made for 100 cycles? More? I think I'll start keeping track on how many times they are refilled. At a savings of roughly $2.50 per refill it will take about 20 refills to pay for the kit. I think I probably used about 20-30lbs of propane last year so I should get a good idea by the end of the year.
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Filling these is much easier than filling the disposable type. With those, I needed a scale and would sometimes end up slightly overfilling. Between bleeding off overfilled tanks and gas sputtering out of the tweaked safety valve during the fill, I probably lost 10-15% of the propane during the process. Much easier using the flame king refillable tanks.
I numbered my tanks and have been putting hash marks on them after each fill. I only have a couple fills on each, so I'm also interested in how these hold up.
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that video is jacked! your filling a propane tank inside a dwelling and venting the gas into it while filling the tank.
your also not wearing protective gloves.
please read the instructions and warnings!
http://www.flameking.com/media/wysiwyg/Training_Manual_for_1_lb_cylinder_fillers.pdf
these tanks have a 12 year certification with them.
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that video is jacked! your filling a propane tank inside a dwelling and venting the gas into it while filling the tank.
your also not wearing protective gloves.
please read the instructions and warnings!
http://www.flameking.com/media/wysiwyg/Training_Manual_for_1_lb_cylinder_fillers.pdf
these tanks have a 12 year certification with them.
Lol Good point. Someone could watch this video and think it's okay to do it this way!
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that video is jacked! your filling a propane tank inside a dwelling and venting the gas into it while filling the tank.
your also not wearing protective gloves.
please read the instructions and warnings!
http://www.flameking.com/media/wysiwyg/Training_Manual_for_1_lb_cylinder_fillers.pdf
these tanks have a 12 year certification with them.
Why?
He said he was in his garage and that the door was open ...... I'd think that be enough ventilation
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The garage door was open, the wind was blowing, and I clearly said, "do this outside". Also the unit comes with an instructional video which shows the process that vents while filling, so I followed it exactly (minus the gloves).
Sincerely,
Jacked Video Producer
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DTro: I appreciate you putting together this video. I thought it gave a great overview of how the refill kit works. Thanks for doing it and for sharing it!
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DTro: I appreciate you putting together this video. I thought it gave a great overview of how the refill kit works. Thanks for doing it and for sharing it!
Thanks, part of the problem of putting together a decent video is being able to control the conditions such as lighting and audio. There are only so many hours in the day and I didn't want to be out in the dark doing a wind muffled video.
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a proper video of how to use the system correctly. and a link already posted about flame king being available. the lighting was fine and no wind noise. the video was done out of doors as instructed. this was posted a week ago.
https://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/index.php?topic=361359.0
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That's the mfg's instructional video, in fact it says to watch it before using, as I did. As we ALL well know, there is some inherent bias in company produced videos.
Just giving my own personal spin to it and helping out fellow ice fishermen. Sorry it didn't live up to your expectations or that I might have done something that wasn't recommended.
BTW, how do you know that video above was done outdoors??
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Lol Good point. Someone could watch this video and think it's okay to do it this way!
that's right. some one could think this is the way to use the system. say some one with no speakers. or some one who quits after they get what they want from it and never waits for the ending.
if the person had said this should be done out of doors first instead of after the instructions are filmed, it could save lives. maybe even his own. if you know better, but forfeit your own safety to produce a jacked video, some thing is wrong.
it would be worth it if just one life is saved or freeze burn from not wearing gloves if this video wasn't on here.
letting others know about a safe system is great, but showing us how to use it incorrectly is not a good thing.
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I'll bite. If safety really is of the utmost concern, how is nobody throwing a flag on all of the videos of people operating ice augers without PPE. I haven't seen a single pair of steel toed boots, lol. I'll go one further and guess that nobody follows the operating instructions of their auger, because I sure don't. I checked my strikemaster's manual right now just for fun and found this gem in the first set of "Important Safeguards" "12. Check cutting blades and auger shaft screws before and after each use to make sure they are tight." Yet there are videos of guys drilling hole after hole after hole... where's the checking at the very start, at least, right? As a side note, the instruction for my strikemaster say to "do not touch the exhaust" as opposed to "wear gloves." But a burn is a burn...
I'd say the solution is to make an even safer video and if it resonates, the view count will help bubble it to the top - that's the beauty of youtube. For every guy working under a hydraulic jack, there will be someone with jackstands. For myself, I liked the instruction video, thank you DTro for making it. The demographic that can't be bothered to listen to spoken instructions or watch instructions to completion is beyond saving.
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Think of all the millions of fishing videos and none of them clearly stating in writing (not just verbally) that you need to wear sunscreen. Shame on them. Now tell me what’s more dangerous? A potential fire, or skin cancer. Just sayin
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Common sense goes a long way guys. DTro, I wish, if you were going to the trouble of making a video, that you would have paid more attention to the safety details. On the other hand, I’m so happy to see guys getting away from filling the green bombs that I’m willing to overlook a few safety miscues to promote the much safer Flame King system. Your video is great. Just add gloves and safety glasses and it’s all good. Another tip from experience is to keep the refillable cylinder tight to the refill adapter while you unscrew the refill adapter from the tank. This helps prevent gas from escaping the refillable tank while uncoupling the two. When you’ve completely unscrewed the adapter from the tank, quickly separate the two to prevent unnecessary gas loss and exposure to freezing gas from the refillable tank. PLEASE WEAR GLOVES. Liquid propane burns on contact with skin.
DN
(https://i.postimg.cc/2q2qZ21Z/3332-E471-07-C0-41-BB-AD89-945-A31354-E4-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2q2qZ21Z)(https://i.postimg.cc/QBX9CRdD/F2-F1-C8-F6-6-FC7-43-B0-8730-FD569-C65-BAFD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QBX9CRdD)
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Common sense goes a long way guys. DTro, I wish, if you were going to the trouble of making a video, that you would have paid more attention to the safety details. On the other hand, I’m so happy to see guys getting away from filling the green bombs that I’m willing to overlook a few safety miscues to promote the much safer Flame King system. Your video is great. Just add gloves and safety glasses and it’s all good. Another tip from experience is to keep the refillable cylinder tight to the refill adapter while you unscrew the refill adapter from the tank. This helps prevent gas from escaping the refillable tank while uncoupling the two. When you’ve completely unscrewed the adapter from the tank, quickly separate the two to prevent unnecessary gas loss and exposure to freezing gas from the refillable tank. PLEASE WEAR GLOVES. Liquid propane burns on contact with skin.
DN
(https://i.postimg.cc/2q2qZ21Z/3332-E471-07-C0-41-BB-AD89-945-A31354-E4-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2q2qZ21Z)(https://i.postimg.cc/QBX9CRdD/F2-F1-C8-F6-6-FC7-43-B0-8730-FD569-C65-BAFD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QBX9CRdD)
Where did you find the best price on your extra tanks?
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menards has them the cheapest and with rebate it's even cheaper when they have it going.
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menards has them the cheapest and with rebate it's even cheaper when they have it going.
yep im waiting to get my rebate back to get one more tank.
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menards has them the cheapest and with rebate it's even cheaper when they have it going.
What is the rebate? They are actually $13.95 on amazon right now too, same price as Menards and free 2 day shipping for prime members.
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Menards 11% rebate is not on at the present time. If your a Amazon prime member and use their prime credit card you can get 5% back on your purchases too. Amazon must have lowered their price lately??
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Those small tanks are convenient. But I picked up a 11# tank. I already have a hose and filter. $50 from Menards vs ~$120 for the flame king kit and 6 tanks.
The refills would be worth it if I was dragging my hit by shoe power but I only use my hut with my ATV so weight really isn't a concern.
Good video btw.
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Why not just use what many of us already have, and just buy the $13.95 tanks.
I already have a stand/bracket for holding the 20 Lb tank upside down, and I already have the refill adapter.
It is not that hard to open and close the main valve on the 20# tank.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/715%2BbrH3t%2BL._SL1000_.jpg)
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For what its worth.....
DTro, I appreciated the info and video. Is safety important ;yes. Are you responsible for everyone else's safety; I think not. Did you get paid to do a professional training video?
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Would using the old style 20# tank adapter be less safe? I don't see how.
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Would using the old style 20# tank adapter be less safe? I don't see how.
i think the new flame king adapter is better.no more freezing the 1lbers or warming the 20.
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Been thinking about getting one of these but wasn't sure cause of the price. Been using the older style filler for a few years with no problems.
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Been thinking about getting one of these but wasn't sure cause of the price. Been using the older style filler for a few years with no problems.
same here I refilled disposables for a long time.these new tanks have nice brass valves that wont rust like the throw aways so im guessing less leaks.plus this is a easier system to use.i made the switch this year.
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i think the new flame king adapter is better.no more freezing the 1lbers or warming the 20.
How is it different? It opens and closes. The new tank with the allen wrench purge vent is the key. The adapters do the same thing just without the fancy shut off lever.
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Just used one recently and it worked as advertised. Pretty spendy for the set-up initially (tank plus the kit is around $50). Depends on your heating needs.
There's a lot of guys using 5lb tanks now with the extension hose with buddy heaters. This is a pretty nice set-up for long cold days where the heat is cranked up, and you're not switching tanks out every four hours. Kicker is you need to have access to a shop that refills tanks, not just exchange them.
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If you have a Menards close by they have the refill kit on sale for $34.99. Good until 12-1
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I understand the arguments for using the bigger tanks and also refilling the small disposable tanks. Like I said, these Flame King 1lbers are the ONLY tanks that are DOT certified. Not only do they have a bleeder valve with a positive open and close (unlike the spring seal which can fail on the disposables) they also have a dip tube for filling while venting (like the big 20lbers). That’s why it works so well and so fast, it’s because it’s venting as it’s filling. You can also tell they are built better and made to last.
Of course you should wear PPE, that should go without saying. I assure you no matter how much time I spend trying to make a video and making sure the I’s are dotted and the T’s are crossed, there’s always the guys finding something to shoot it down. Pow Pow. LOL I’m just a regular guy out here capturing regular things with my camera. I don’t have an EHS department to answer to. Haha
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You do a dang fine job Sir!
WS
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You do a dang fine job Sir!
WS
X2
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How is it different? It opens and closes. The new tank with the allen wrench purge vent is the key. The adapters do the same thing just without the fancy shut off lever.
After watching again I see there is a white stem they call it to line up on the tank with the purge valve. I think I might make a run to Menards tonight. I have been refilling disposable tanks for over 10 years without any problems. I keep only newer tanks (they are easy to find, plenty of new empty's at recycle centers) This system does look easier. I'm all for easy.
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And safer with a warranty.
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I dont think the flame king tanks will work with the old filler. For the purge indicator to function correctly, the 1lb tank has to be in a vertical orientation.
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Heads up.
If you want to get one of these tanks for $5, print this out or bring it up on your phone, or screenshot it and take it into gander.
$15-$10= $5
https://www.ganderoutdoors.com/coupons/cc8853.shtml
Or get something else minus the $10, lots of options. :)
I got mine today, and might get one tomorrow too. Maybe even a few more next week.
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Got the 1# cylinder for $5.29
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Made trip to Menard's Friday and got one on sale. Checked to make sure tank would fit my auger, Buddy heater and torch which it did. Filled tank and was very pleased with the ease and quickness it filled the tank. Much easier than the way I have been refilling. Now gotta make another trip back to get extra tanks since of Menard's has the11% rebate on now.
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Just ordered one of these myself as well as some spare bottles from Amazon.
We don't have Menards in my state and the shipping price made Amazon a few bucks cheaper in overall price.
I think I'm going to like this for situations where I still use the little bottles.
I have a 11# bottle and the connecting hose but for early-season hike out trips or times where that's just not convenient I'll now have refillable little bottles.
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Filled up my six refillables on Friday afternoon which just about wiped out what was left from last year in my 33 lb. tank, so I packed it in my car and headed to the trailer sales place where I buy my propane. $29.04 later (.88/lb.) and I’m all set for the season and then some in one trip. Happy happy! :thumbsup:
DN
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So I did a test last night. 2 Full Flame King refillables in my Big Buddy Heater on the high setting. Went strong for about 2 hours and at that point I noticed some dimming, I had to wobble the tanks a bit to get it back to full strength. I got another 30 minutes out of it and I think I could've squeezed a final 15 minutes, but to be conservative I would say 2-2.5 hours is a good rule of thumb for these tanks. With that, I would expect about 5 hours on med setting (9,000 BTU) and about 11 hours on low (4,000 BTU).
Given that these tanks fill at approx 80%
1lb of propane has 21,566 BTU's. On high setting the output of the heater is 18,000 BTU's. 2 tanks at 80% full = 34,505.6 BTU's / 18000 = 1.91 hours.
When I filled my tanks I got 14 oz in them or about 87% full. Using that math 2 tanks at 87% full = 37,524.8 BTU's/18,000 = 2.1 hours.
Just thought I'd share my findings. I still think this is a great option for refilling and if you plan to run the heater on high for an extended fishing trip, 1lbers might not be the way to go, but for an average evening on the ice it should work great, especially if you don't have to blast it on High the whole time.
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So I did a test last night. 2 Full Flame King refillables in my Big Buddy Heater on the high setting. Went strong for about 2 hours and at that point I noticed some dimming, I had to wobble the tanks a bit to get it back to full strength. I got another 30 minutes out of it and I think I could've squeezed a final 15 minutes, but to be conservative I would say 2-2.5 hours is a good rule of thumb for these tanks. With that, I would expect about 5 hours on med setting (9,000 BTU) and about 11 hours on low (4,000 BTU).
Given that these tanks fill at approx 80%
1lb of propane has 21,566 BTU's. On high setting the output of the heater is 18,000 BTU's. 2 tanks at 80% full = 34,505.6 BTU's / 18000 = 1.91 hours.
When I filled my tanks I got 14 oz in them or about 87% full. Using that math 2 tanks at 87% full = 37,524.8 BTU's/18,000 = 2.1 hours.
Just thought I'd share my findings. I still think this is a great option for refilling and if you plan to run the heater on high for an extended fishing trip, 1lbers might not be the way to go, but for an average evening on the ice it should work great, especially if you don't have to blast it on High the whole time.
Great info....Thanks for putting together such an understandable and reasonable report!!
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Great info....Thanks for putting together such an understandable and reasonable report!!
X2 and my experience is right in line with his findings. In the Polar Bird, I almost never run my Portable Buddy on anything but low (3,800 BTU)and I can get about 4.5 to 5 hours of run time on one tank depending on weather (if it's warm out, I'll shut it down to just the pilot only for stretches at a time) to stretch my tanks even further.
DN
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Thanks
The $10 gander card has been making these tanks $5.36 for me which has made it a bit more reasonable to justify. I think I have enough now to keep a good rotation going.
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Just picked up a kit and a couple spare tanks. When refilling, does the temperature effect the fill process? I can either fill in my garage where its about 30*, or my basement where its about 65*.
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Don’t matter, just has to be well ventilated
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Outside would be the best.
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DO NOT refill these in your basement.
I've been keeping my tanks and 20lber outside. Last night it was about 20 degrees and I went out and filled 4 tanks in about 10 minutes. Temperature really has no effect when you are able to purge while you fill.
Also I discovered that the tailgate of my truck works much better than that stand that comes with the kit. Doing everything at waist level is so much easier.
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Yup i also fill my tanks setup on the tailgate of my truck.
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Great idea and this is fully functional. The problem is when I do the math if I were to purchase the unit and 4 bottles I would have to fill a total of 50 times to wash the cost of the equipment. By the time I would use that much propane the 12 year DOT would expire. Also the 50 fills are not per cylinder but 50 full cylinders. This is definitely the way of the future just not for me right now.
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Convenience always comes at a cost. Money isn’t the only driving factor with these. Pretty nice to be able to know you have full tanks ready to go and not wondering if you have to stop somewhere at the last minute or if the gas station will have them in stock. Plus it helps everyone by not tossing these in the trash over and over again. Also I think your math is based on full retail cost. You can currently get the kit with one tank for 34.99 at Menards. Find the right sales or coupons and you can get the tanks at a good deal too. I was able to get my return on kit with 4 tanks down to 20 refills. (I paid $5 each for my tanks with the Gander Coupon). Sure it’s not for everyone, and it’s not cheap. Understandable and I don’t disagree.
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i think the new flame king adapter is better.no more freezing the 1lbers or warming the 20.
Do the flame kings freeze less than regular tanks? I cant run 1b tanks in my big buddy without swapping every 15-20 minutes in normal conditions.. its a pain and Im not sure what route to take. Considered the 5lb + hose but Im not sure, its expensive
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Do the flame kings freeze less than regular tanks? I cant run 1b tanks in my big buddy without swapping every 15-20 minutes in normal conditions.. its a pain and Im not sure what route to take. Considered the 5lb + hose but Im not sure, its expensive
Can't say for sure if they freeze more or less, but like I said above, I ran 2 full Flame King tanks for 2 hours and it ran strong with only some minor frosting on the tanks. They do sell some sort of tank "coozy" that you can put on them to keep them insulated a bit better.
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I have an 11 lb tank and hose.
My tank expired this year and it cost me $15 to get it recertified for another 5 years.
Locally a new 11 lb tank was somewhere around $80.
So it made sense to get it recertified.
When my BBQ tanks expire I just take those in to the blue rhino and exchange them and let them pay the recertification fee but they don't do an exchange on the smaller tanks.
I know the five lb tanks sell for in the neighborhood of $60.
And then you have to buy the hose which is somewhere around 12 to 15 bucks.
A little one pounder is it just convenient for some things especially my plumber's torch which I use a lot in my fishing jig making.
I think I'm going to like this new setup for situations where I really just want to use the one pounders.
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Can't say for sure if they freeze more or less, but like I said above, I ran 2 full Flame King tanks for 2 hours and it ran strong with only some minor frosting on the tanks. They do sell some sort of tank "coozy" that you can put on them to keep them insulated a bit better.
This would only help for the first few minutes that the tank is warm, after it'll actually make the situation worse. Covers protect the tank from the cold on the outside. The inside of my shanty is warm, the issue is the cold caused by depressurization which is an internal thermal loss system.
Two ideas I may try this year-
-Thermal reflector angled to reflect heat from the front of my big buddy to the side where the open tank compartment is
-Use copper pipe on the front of the heater that leads to a loop around the tank, the copper is thermally conductive and will heat the tank
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Do you guys have any freezing issues with the 5lb tanks? That might be the move. Sick of paying $4+ for lbers
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What I’ve found that helps with the 1lbers and sputtering or freezing is that it’s mostly from tank getting low and a loss of pressure. You can tilt them or shake them a bit and it will work for another 20 min. I’m thinking if you opened the cover and propped the tank up so it’s angled a bit that should work too.
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What I’ve found that helps with the 1lbers and sputtering or freezing is that it’s mostly from tank getting low and a loss of pressure. You can tilt them or shake them a bit and it will work for another 20 min. I’m thinking if you opened the cover and propped the tank up so it’s angled a bit that should work too.
Pressure loss is due to state change inside the tank, the propane liquifies in the cold temp and does not provide adequate gas pressure to feed the heater, so shaking it wont help on a 3/4 full tank that froze. Only thing that works is getting it back to "room temp". The couple seconds of holding it and shaking will warm it up enough to run for another couple minutes but its not a perm solution.
I do not recommend titling them, I am under the impression this can cause a flame ball by feeding LP directly into the heater (instead of gas) This is what happens to guys who over fill their tanks
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Yep, probably right, just saying what has worked for me. I’ve never seen one freeze up at ¾ full though. Whenever it’s happened to me it’s been ¼ or lower. Getting the heater up off the ground on a crate or something would probably help too.
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I just bought a heater this year. I've heard about 1lb's freezing. Would the disposable toe warmers stuck to the tank help?
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I just bought a heater this year. I've heard about 1lb's freezing. Would the disposable toe warmers stuck to the tank help?
I dont think so. The tanks freeze up good. They'll have a 5mm crust of ice on the outside when they stop working, a chemical toe warmer might help for a few minutes but once the condensation starts freezing up I think its game over. I was also considering those Zippo butane hand warmers or something like an electric heating element such as those rechargeable foot warmers.
Ive searched pretty heavily online but no one seems to have a solution besides changing to a bigger tank. I'm surprised that they havent created a channel inside the unit to make the compartments heated (using the radiant heat)
I guess another option would be a hose for the 1bers, allowing you to put the tank 2 feet in front of the heater
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I dont think so. The tanks freeze up good. They'll have a 5mm crust of ice on the outside when they stop working, a chemical toe warmer might help for a few minutes but once the condensation starts freezing up I think its game over. I was also considering those Zippo butane hand warmers or something like an electric heating element such as those rechargeable foot warmers.
Ive searched pretty heavily online but no one seems to have a solution besides changing to a bigger tank. I'm surprised that they havent created a channel inside the unit to make the compartments heated (using the radiant heat)
I guess another option would be a hose for the 1bers, allowing you to put the tank 2 feet in front of the heater
we've been using a Heater/cooker with the 1lb. tanks and just turn the heater on it's back whenever it freezes up and starts to die out. When it starts to die out again, simply stand it upright...we can usually empty the 1lb. tanks fully this way.