IceShanty.com's Ice Fishing Community
Ice Fishing Tips -Check your local regulations! => Equipment => Topic started by: Icepuppy on Nov 01, 2014, 11:13 AM
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Hey guys. I ran into some trouble with my 6" nils drill style auger. I use a Milwaukee M18 drill with this which is awesome, I can drill 2' of ice in about 30 seconds. Problem is some chuck slip etc. has mangled the hex grip of the auger.
(http://s27.postimg.cc/sf06mp3wj/image.jpg)
The best way I can think to fix it is to chop off the bad part and have a machine shop weld a new pice on. I have many of these hole saw arbors/mandrels which are hardened steel. The nils also should have hardened steel here, mild steel is just not up the torque modern drills are capable of.
A hole saw mandrel looks like this, I would chop off the hex "arbor shaft" portion and have it welded on. Anyone have a better idea?
(http://s18.postimg.cc/qiddq3wdl/image.jpg)
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id cut it off tack the new shaft on spin it to make sure its true then mig it on just my 2 cents
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Yep, that's what I was thinking. I have a wire feed mig but no gas, welds pretty decent but not as pretty as shielding gas will give. I guess if I want it pretty I'll have to take it to a shop.
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now that blows
I was wondering if this would happen, to me it looks like a bad design
Couple quick ways you could fix this, try machining or grinding down so you can create a new hex or cut off and buy a piece of hex stock and have it welded on
good luck
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My bud's Nils had the same issue. Pretty poor material design.
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Get a hold of NilsUSA and let them know of your problem.
I'd imagine you can cut the shaft off and us a Nils drill adapter.
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Good ideas guys, definitely this is not a good design. The metal here needs to be hardened steel. I had small shavings come off it since it was brand new. A fair bit of the damage is done just tightening and un tightening the chuck before and after drilling. Going to try Nils too.
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Can you clean it up, thread it and put a long nut on it? A longer, larger diameter fitting might help avoid stripping. Obviously it has to be small enough to fit in the chuck.
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Well, I had also considered getting a shop to machine down the shaft and then install a hardened sleeve with a hex grip. Have sent an email off to nils with pictures will let you guys know how that goes. I've used nils augers for years and have been super happy other than this issue.
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Keep in mind that when you cut off the existing shaft, and weld on another one, it may make the Nils wobble unless it is a perfect weld and piece that you use is balanced as well. Just my two cents...
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Yes, Corndog I'm sure you're right. That's why I would take it to a proper shop. I can weld but I'm sure it wouldn't be dead straight which would cause a lot lf wobble. Hoping Nils steps up and sends me a new one. ;D
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I had the same thing happen to me too. Thanks for sharing.
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Cut off the bad end, make a adapter to fit the Nils shaft with a ID to fit Mora, Strikemaster, Clam, Ion output shaft. Buy the Clam drill extension
($15-$20 depending where you buy it). The Clam drill extension fits the adapter you just made. If your drill battery dies, cary a Mora or Strikemaster handle.
My own adapters.
http://s751.photobucket.com/user/frs578/media/P1010188_zps3fb5fb53.jpg.html?o=1
http://s751.photobucket.com/user/frs578/media/P1010189_zps09b84cc9.jpg.html?o=0
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I just got off of the phone with them.
They will NOT stand behind their product.
It's a shame to say the least >:(
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Someone else just called back ..... he explained how they recommend it be used.
He didn't have an answer when i asked him if he thought it made sense to include those recommendations with the auger so we know them before we use it .... NOT after we damage it.
And he reiterated that they will not be standing behind their product.
I was going to buy a 8 inch this year as well ..... can you say "Fin Bore" ? :o
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Good ideas guys, definitely this is not a good design. The metal here needs to be hardened steel. I had small shavings come off it since it was brand new. A fair bit of the damage is done just tightening and un tightening the chuck before and after drilling. Going to try Nils too.
I had issues from day one as well.
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Nils USA is constantly shooting themselves in the foot with their "customer service". :-(
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Time to vote with your feet and maybe some of these companies that neglect the customer service part of their business will pay the price on their bottom line. We as consumers don't have to stand for this crap nor buy their crap !!
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@shipoffools and every one else the fin bore i have heard can get bent cause they don't got those round bars that support the blades and head when you pull it back threw the hole like lazers do so do some looking around and asking what the thought on fin bores are...
as for the off set handle points ht enterprises polar fire augers have them and sold in the usa by dicks sporting goods. the blades are interchangeable with lazer blades just a heads up i got one to barely fit on my lazer 8 inch auger so if you like the laser better that may help you any how i only got it to slide down to the first notch on the lazer. reason being the way they punched out the holes in the offset handle maybe it bumpy. so i had to drawl file them down a tad ware they hit. you could still change out the blades on the polar fire auger to lazer sweden blades, i checked it out the holes they match up!
me too have had nothing but problems with my 8 inch nills should just throw the damn thing in the garbage the head on it is junk i could have gotten a new one it just going to happen again and at 100 each one is that worth it?? seems like there to quick to jump on a new design and put it out on the market which no research and development the products turn out the way they are...
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Hey kabob do you own a fin bore?
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Hey kabob do you own a fin bore?
mite after this season or half way after this one starts will see...
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If your nils head is junk and you don't like it send it to me. I love my Nils easiest drilling unit I have used and stays sharp for 3 or 4 seasons before needing sharpened.
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Hi guys, just wanted to give my personal opinion on this topic. Milwaukee cordless drills have the worst chucks I have ever used. They constantly loosen up on their own, which is probably what caused the wear on you auger bit. I personally use an 18 volt Bosch for my auger and have never had an issue with it. Just my 2cents but ditch the Milwaukee and I'm sure your nils will be fine even with it rounded off.
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I didn't see this posted anywhere and I am no welder, but is there an issue with welding hardened steel to the steel the Nils is made out of? Could this just be creating another weak link in the entire system? Sorry, just curious.
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OP, the shank of that auger was obviously damaged by a slipping chuck. Nils doesn't make the shank out of hardened steel because it would break with normal use. The shank is also not made into a hex for the same reason as well as the risk of injury to the user. Does the drill you are using have a plastic exterior on the chuck? If so that is likely the cause of the slippage on the shank. Drill chucks of any quality are made from steel and nothing else. My DeWalt XRP hammer drill came with an all steel Rohm, ratcheting, hand tighten chuck that will dent the shank of a HSS drill at the first sign of slippage. By dent I mean the jaws actually bite into the shank of the driven part to prevent slippage. That being said the shank of any drill mounted accessory will surely be damaged over time as the jaws of even the cheapest drill chuck are harder than the driven part.
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Wow that sucks.
I was strongly thinking of going the convertible route this coming winter...not after seeing this. Guessing this might be part of the reason why they came out with the "Arctic Trekker" series this year where that part is interchangeable / replaceable.
Have a look here:
https://www.redrockstore.com/sc_images/products/4208_image.png
And we thought the regular Nils were expensive!!! Problem is that at close to $300 for the 8", a power auger does not seem all that bad.
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Just fixed mine, Allen wrench cut and welded in place. Works perfect.
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If your nils head is junk and you don't like it send it to me. I love my Nils easiest drilling unit I have used and stays sharp for 3 or 4 seasons before needing sharpened.
The head was never an issue, it's still laser sharp after two seasons. If you religiously use the cover and do not bang the head on the ice it will stay sharp for a long time. My 6" hand nils is 5 years old and I drill about 20 holes once a week for 10-12 weeks per seasons. The heads are also interchangeable hand vs. Drill, just the drill head has a less aggressive blade angle.
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OP, the shank of that auger was obviously damaged by a slipping chuck. Nils doesn't make the shank out of hardened steel because it would break with normal use. The shank is also not made into a hex for the same reason as well as the risk of injury to the user. Does the drill you are using have a plastic exterior on the chuck? If so that is likely the cause of the slippage on the shank. Drill chucks of any quality are made from steel and nothing else. My DeWalt XRP hammer drill came with an all steel Rohm, ratcheting, hand tighten chuck that will dent the shank of a HSS drill at the first sign of slippage. By dent I mean the jaws actually bite into the shank of the driven part to prevent slippage. That being said the shank of any drill mounted accessory will surely be damaged over time as the jaws of even the cheapest drill chuck are harder than the driven part.
Yes, the damage was caused by chuck slip. Any hex design will always have some chuck slip if it bounces and vibrates a bit as any auger will do. The hex has no way to hold the chuck teeth. The drill, this is one of the best drills made, it's about $500 new, all steel chuck and all steel gears. The chuck itself has anti-loosening ratcheting action to tighten and I make sure it's completely tight. In my trade we've tried all drill manufacturers you can think of and Milwaukee consistently outlast and out power Bosch, Dewalt, hitachi, Panasonic etc. The shank would not snap if it was hardened steel. I use a drill almost every day as an electrician to drill large holes in steel, sometimes stainless and in 18 years I have never once broken a hole saw mandrel which are always made of hardened steel. I drill up to 6" holes in 1/4" to 1/2" steel so the torque and effort would be at least that of drilling ice.
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Update guys, JP at Nils cut me a deal on a new unit. I'm still 100% convinced this is not the best design for this product. So I ordered a new one and also modified the old one with the method I mentioned in the first post. This is a hardened steel hole saw mandrel made with proper drill chuck milled recesses and it is almost impossible to have chuck slip with this regardless of the type of drill, chuck, power etc. The old mangled hex was machined down to 1/4" which is the pilot drill size of the mandrel. This allowed for correct wiggle free alignment, my millwright friend then welded and built it up a bit for strength and tried to keep it as symmetrical as possible. I will be taking this out in a week or so and will report back! ;D
(http://s18.postimg.cc/bekbj75ax/image.jpg)
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A guy should try 7/16 hex shank from a Milwaukee quick release bit. Put a chuck adaptor in the drill and be able to separate the auger from the drill for storage and transport. With this set up, one would be able to use ready made extensions when the ice thickens as well. This will be my set up when my nils shaft needs addressing.
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I think this is going to be much stronger than a hex adapter or threading it, you'd be surprised how soft the factory steel is. If you went with the threading method you'd make it very weak and it would probably break. If you didn't file it with very much precision it would affect the thread pitch (missing or uneven material). The only reason I reduced mine was to fit the hole saw mandrel which was then welded on, large diameter steel to large diameter steel. The nils has a circular plate built in (mounted near the end of the auger screw on the top side) so it's impossible to have it go down a hole even if the shank breaks off.
I've got a brand new unit and this repaired unit so I'll be taking both on my next trip. ;)
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Same thing happened to mine last year. I got the same response from Nils also. Very disappointed in their customer service for sure. It's to bad because it cuts awesome and fast with a drill. I was really happy with it in till I started eating away the bit. They need to redesign the top and make it harder or make it replaceable. Keep posting alternatives to fix it. I'll need to do something with mine soon.
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Same thing happened to mine last year. I got the same response from Nils also. Very disappointed in their customer service for sure. It's to bad because it cuts awesome and fast with a drill. I was really happy with it in till I started eating away the bit. They need to redesign the top and make it harder or make it replaceable. Keep posting alternatives to fix it. I'll need to do something with mine soon.
I was surprised their customer service was so poor. If there are such specific instructions you would think they would include them with the auger!
Good thing it cuts so well by hand ;D
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Their specific instructions are BS. It's just their way to put the problem on their customers instead of their design .
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Their specific instructions are BS. It's just their way to put the problem on their customers instead of their design .
Yeah ..... it's too bad because i would never buy another one .... nor sing their praises any more.
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Yeah ..... it's too bad because i would never buy another one .... nor sing their praises any more.
Yeah their customer service could be better. They insist this problem doesn't happen but it obviously does. I even sent them a picture of my repaired one. You need recesses in something like this to prevent the chuck from grabbing and spinning around the bit. As someone pointed out, most good quality drills have little micro teeth in the chuck. These are great but this is where the problems start with the nils. Take a look at any drill bit, hole saw arbor, impact rated bits and what's the common denominator? Hardened steel. A replaceable sleeve made out of,hardened steel would have sorted out this problem nicely. I even looked at a cheepo auger drill adapter today for $9.99 and even it has recesses for the chuck.
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OP, the shank of that auger was obviously damaged by a slipping chuck. Nils doesn't make the shank out of hardened steel because it would break with normal use. The shank is also not made into a hex for the same reason as well as the risk of injury to the user.
My cordless auger adaptor is made from a solid piece of hardened steel; ground into 3 points and has performed flawlessly for many seasons now. Wish I remembered the maufacturer
(http://imageshack.com/a/img259/4426/cordlessadapter.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img673/9071/sKZHJp.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img537/6047/3GkjmS.jpg)
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Yeah I really don't get why flats or recesses and hardened steel aren't obvious, this is a "drill bit" after all.
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Same thing happened to mine second time out last season. Cuts great by hand, but the convertable idea still needs some work. Thanks for the fix suggestions. I'm all ears.
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I sent the photo to nils. If they respond I'll post it here.
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Sadly customer service for may ice fishing supply companies are terrible. I have a stove that will not work and cant get anyone to answer any questions. I have traps that are "top of the line" that the flags wont stand up on, yet have been promised replacements for almost a year. Sorry for the thread de rail, it just seems to be way to common place any more to sell it and forget about it
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I would cut off the crap end and weld a hex nut and Allen stub to the nut. Cheap fix.
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like said cut the bad end off punch with center punch drill it so it big enough to fit a new bit then weld it in. like a new hardened hex stock welded in. if you cut it smooth or grind it smooth then come back and center punch it dead center it should drill strait so it does not wobble when drilled and welded correctly i would use some thing like a Allen wrench cut off to length i would use like a 1/2 inch Allen key if it strips out you could at least grind the old weld down punch and re-drill the hole again and again... like also said it a new design just take it with a grain of salt that why i did not buy new one wit hte drill bit attached cause it's a new design. i bought the old blue one so i can buy a adapter to make it work. for this very reason stuff can and will happen to new items like cars it happens all the time look at the air bag recall going on and etc recalls. kind like the 1994 for thunder bird you did not know when you bought it they would have a head gasket issue at 100k miles you find out later on after you buy it. that why it better to wait 3-4 model years in to those models to find out if there any good...
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like said cut the bad end off punch with center punch drill it so it big enough to fit a new bit then weld it in. like a new hardened hex stock welded in. if you cut it smooth or grind it smooth then come back and center punch it dead center it should drill strait so it does not wobble when drilled and welded correctly i would use some thing like a Allen wrench cut off to length i would use like a 1/2 inch Allen key if it strips out you could at least grind the old weld down punch and re-drill the hole again and again... like also said it a new design just take it with a grain of salt that why i did not buy new one wit hte drill bit attached cause it's a new design. i bought the old blue one so i can buy a adapter to make it work. for this very reason stuff can and will happen to new items like cars it happens all the time look at the air bag recall going on and etc recalls. kind like the 1994 for thunder bird you did not know when you bought it they would have a head gasket issue at 100k miles you find out later on after you buy it. that why it better to wait 3-4 model years in to those models to find out if there any good...
If you were to repair this multiple times it probably wouldn't work out well. The auger has been out for four years, so it's not really new. The auger adapters that have been sold for ten years or more for this purpose are all made of hardened steel and I've never heard of one breaking or stripping. The blue auger cutting head is not the same blade pitch as the orange "slick head" cutter. Using the blue one on a drill will put a lot more stress on your drill than the orange due to its aggressive blade pitch. It was specifically designed for hand use. For $150 it's better than killing a $500 drill, IMHO.
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Someone else just called back ..... he explained how they recommend it be used.
He didn't have an answer when i asked him if he thought it made sense to include those recommendations with the auger so we know them before we use it .... NOT after we damage it.
Could you please post what they said to do "differently" I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance!
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@Icepuppy
that why i did not go with the orange ones cause of potential failure of the drill bit attachment point of the permanent adaptor... that is why i like the blue auger better cause of the kovac drill adaptor i think it is that sold for 39.99... cause it was removable if it broke. by the way you can buy the orange blade for the blue auger and mix match parts i thought???? that the other reason i went with the blue auger... all you got to do is swap out the head form a hand drill head to a power drill head... by the way i don't think you will burn out a drill motor with how easy these thing cut my laser in a 8 inch yes but a 8 inch nils no way.....
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I went ahead and bought the trekker because of this. You can get a replacement section that includes the drill adapter and the disc that keeps it from falling in the hole, for $29.99. I then pounded a deep well 10mm socket on the addapter with a pinned drill addapter conected to the It, so it shouldn't ever need replaced anyway. The week link should be the drill addapter, which will be cheap and easy to replace.
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As a one time metallurgist, I'm going to have to stand up for Nils on this one. You guys are trying to run their one piece drill with your cordless, hoping the chuck will grab. It would be foolish to make the whole Nils out of hardened steel. And although it could be done, making the part that goes into the drill chuck hardened could be done too, but you probably couldn't afford it. Some kind of adapter is really called for, that can be harder than the Nils shaft. I see a couple good solutions posted. But remember, hard steel doesn't machine easily, doesn't weld well (and retain its hardness) , and in some applications is brittle, too. The design is a compromise.
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Well then they should let us know it is needed in the packaging or directions. >:(
I don't remember exactly what the guy said ..... i was too ticked off to listen since the damage was already done and i have a hand auger now :o
My concern on these "fixes" is having it be off kilter and not spin properly.
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As a one time metallurgist, I'm going to have to stand up for Nils on this one. You guys are trying to run their one piece drill with your cordless, hoping the chuck will grab. It would be foolish to make the whole Nils out of hardened steel. And although it could be done, making the part that goes into the drill chuck hardened could be done too, but you probably couldn't afford it. Some kind of adapter is really called for, that can be harder than the Nils shaft. I see a couple good solutions posted. But remember, hard steel doesn't machine easily, doesn't weld well (and retain its hardness) , and in some applications is brittle, too. The design is a compromise.
what would you do to fix your Nils if you were having this issue?
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As a one time metallurgist, I'm going to have to stand up for Nils on this one. You guys are trying to run their one piece drill with your cordless, hoping the chuck will grab. It would be foolish to make the whole Nils out of hardened steel. And although it could be done, making the part that goes into the drill chuck hardened could be done too, but you probably couldn't afford it. Some kind of adapter is really called for, that can be harder than the Nils shaft. I see a couple good solutions posted. But remember, hard steel doesn't machine easily, doesn't weld well (and retain its hardness) , and in some applications is brittle, too. The design is a compromise.
The orange Nil's auger is advertised as a cordless drill auger. So why wouldn't you try to run it with a drill? Maybe your confused it with the blue nils. I would hope the chuck would grab, that's why I bought it. That's what Nils advertised this product to do. Of course it would be foolish to make the whole auger out of hardened steel, plus why would you need to. It's the hex bit that's the issue here. I think your right on track about them using some kind of adapter with a hard steel piece for the chuck to grab. Like I said before its a bad design that was destine to fail. It's a great idea with poor execution. Look around and it's not just fluke, isolated case or lack of following their directions. There are a lot of people in the same boat as me and not happy about it. The right thing for Nils to do would be stand up and admit their faults in the product and fix it. If they have to charge more than so be it. I'm sure they will change the design moving forward at some point. If not there will be that many more unhappy customers. But they should also take it on the chin and do what's right and back their products, name and their customers that support them!!!!!!!
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The orange Nil's auger is advertised as a cordless drill auger. So why wouldn't you try to run it with a drill? Maybe your confused it with the blue nils. I would hope the chuck would grab, that's why I bought it. That's what Nils advertised this product to do. Of course it would be foolish to make the whole auger out of hardened steel, plus why would you need to. It's the hex bit that's the issue here. I think your right on track about them using some kind of adapter with a hard steel piece for the chuck to grab. Like I said before its a bad design that was destine to fail. It's a great idea with poor execution. Look around and it's not just fluke, isolated case or lack of following their directions. There are a lot of people in the same boat as me and not happy about it. The right thing for Nils to do would be stand up and admit their faults in the product and fix it. If they have to charge more than so be it. I'm sure they will change the design moving forward at some point. If not there will be that many more unhappy customers. But they should also take it on the chin and do what's right and back their products, name and their customers that support them!!!!!!!
It surprises me that they are basically turning their backs on their customers. They have such a good reputation that it seems like they wouldn't want to jeopardize it :-\
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mine also is showing signs of this defect ???
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mine also is showing signs of this defect ???
Just had a separate post from someone else who experienced it. :-\
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will that nils ice auger cordless drill adapter slide over the orange auger if you cut the damaged shaft off. or how can a guy make one that does. that's what we need. better yet if the sleeve and the shaft were separate held on by a couple set screws so you could replace it.
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For what it's worth, my modified one that I posted pictures of has drilled 20+ holes in a foot of ice with no issues. It no longer loosens and grabs the arbor directly with the chuck teeth. I have not seen a single metal shaving from it. I'm confident enough that I haven't taken a backup, twice now. Sheath or adapter this works and could be designed to work in a removable fashion.