Barotrauma Study

[Born Late]

Sure would like to see a similar study conducted here with our perch.

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[missoulafish]

Interesting video with some solid advice thrown in, thanks for sharing!

[Cbass123]

That was a great video, very informative.  You should repost this in the main page (not just the MT page.)  Thanks for posting.

[sra61]

Excellent! It also seems like they get disoriented badly too. A good shove upright down the hole helps them get moving. I've seen fish that were just set back on the water lay there and not move, until you give them a head start back down. Reminded me of a horse that got tired and just gave up and would just lay down and die if you didn't make em get up!

[MT_btagger]

I can't remember if I posted this last year or not. The organization below is for Gulf of Mexico fishermen, but they had no problem mailing the descenders to me in Montana. I did have a florida fishing trip lined up and needed the gear, but regardless saving fish is saving fish. There's a survey and some other stuff to fill out and they ship it to you. It's basically a fish lip gripper with a pressure switch to open it.

If you think belly up perch under the ice is bad, you need to see a chum line of 10# plus red snapper and red grouper floating off the back of the boat because they are out of season and the mates aren't making sure the anglers are venting them right. I used my descender for mine and it really did not slow me down at all. Was wild because the mates were activley trying to discourage me from using it and wanted me to vent the fish instead.

Lots of science resources on barotrauma too.

https://returnemright.org/

[chartreusealltheway]

Thanks for posting.  Really shows you that we as fishermen have an effect on the fish when they are reeled up from the depths.  I always catch and keep for this reason,  it's kinda common sense,  that's what led to this being tested.   If someone were to catch and keep (staying under regulations) you do get to bring home fish and even though it may be a little harder fileting the small ones, it still means im not killing more fish than the next guy.  I also only go out 4 maybe 5 times a year because I've got my fish in the freezer at the regulation limits.   This catch and release stuff needs to stop.   We as fishermen need to understand that the sporting fishing is unhealthy compared to the sustenance fishing.   Catch and release is not good in my dumb ass caveman hunter gatherer opinion

[Born Late]

Seems to me the results of the study show that catch and release can have little impact if the released fish were caught at a depth shallower than that at which barotrauma occurs. So, I disagree that all C&R should be avoided or is wrong.

I’ll admit that fishing derbies for species susceptible to barotrauma make me cringe. Prize incentivized high-grading of perch caught in water deeper than 30 feet sounds like a recipe for a significant impact and an opportunity for another study.

[missoulafish]

[elkstalker]

I appreciate the simple steps he outlined for releasing with minimal impact to the fish, keep them out of water as little as possible, remove any air from the mouth, close mouth and direct downward.

[sra61]

Excellent information! Aaron puts out some good content. Sometimes a little strange, but always entertaining. I agree totally with his results. We've watched them go back down from 24-26'.

[grizzlyhackle]

@missoulafish - thanks for posting that Uncut video...immediately what I thought of when I saw the post.

[Born Late]

Brett at Target Walleye offers a kinder and more thoughtful take than I could have mustered in response to Mr. Wiebe's 38:31 data-free manifesto. Aside from the apparent limitations of the study, I see the biggest “flaw” in the MDNR video being the choice to even mention FFS. This is about barotrauma, not FFS.

"First off: It is nice to see Aaron back and adding to the conversation. I think he calls out some important aspects that were flawed in the DNR’s ‘pilot project.’ These types of conversations – reviewing and critiquing other’s studies/findings – is what helps encourage folks to produce higher-quality research and get closer to the truth.

I think my biggest concern is that some folks might casually watch the new Uncut video and come out thinking that releasing ultra-deep caught fish is always okay so long as they swim off. I don’t think that’s what Aaron was necessarily trying to get across in his video – he’s more so defending FFS technology and how it’s not the bad guy in all of this – but I do think that’s how some folks might take it....

Soooo there’s a couple things I want to bring up that I personally think should be kept in mind before those ‘some folks’ give the green light to catching and releasing out of deep water....

It's important to note that we don't know the delayed mortality of any of those fish...only that they were able to get back down to depth and initially swim away.

I’ve been to community fishing holes over deep water (way before FFS was even a thing) during early-ice when there’s no snow cover, and seen dozens of dead crappies under the ice. These fish were clearly sent back down the hole, but at some point floated back up.

There’s soooo many variables that can impact a healthy release. I’ve seen some lakes where basin crappies come out of the depths and appear (externally) to be as healthy as a fish caught out of shallow water. But I’ve also fished numerous lakes where basin crappies will come out of the hole and instantly have visible damage.

One quick example of that can be seen from 0:44 - 1:26 in this video I shot 2 years ago. (https://youtu.be/aQ7WAwI740o?si=_jg0zFVzuI-AUy0-) There are no edits/cuts in that clip from hook-set to the hold up. It was a 12” crappie that I caught suspended about 33’ down over 40’, as you can see it was hooked in the snout (not gut hooked deep) yet was instantly gushing blood from internal damage of being pulled out of deep water:

Like I said, I think Aaron brought up some really good points in his video. Stuff that a ‘field expert’ might have a better understanding of than some PhD who maybe spends more time behind the desk than on the water. But I also worry that some folks might take things the wrong way without really listening to his message...which is why I just wanted to point out a few things that caught my attention and some of my observations over the years."

[HWeber]

I don't always agree with Brett but I feel he got this one right. The dnr test wasn't great but Aaron's really wasn't much better. Reality is somewhere in the middle. I'd rather see people cautious about barotrauma than cavalier about it

[MT_btagger]

There's a lot to be learned here in the importance of study design and testing your assumptions especially when the results are just too good and confirm your priors.

 Additionally from the sonar video you have to remember that anecdota is not data. And as mentioned above by born late we know nothing about whether those fish that made it to the bottom actually survived the barotrauma or died sometime later.

But there is the opportunity to redo the study breaking it into the 2 component parts. One with the same overall design but using a descender to drop the fish to the bottom of the holding net to see how many survive if they make it to the bottom.

 The second would be a more rigorous version of the sonar study looking at the percentage of released fish that can make it to the bottom.

 This still clearly wouldn't be perfect because in the real world there's a host of other variables. But it would chip away at the question.