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Author Topic: Some people are clueless!  (Read 12335 times)

Offline spurzfan

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #30 on: Jan 13, 2022, 12:27 PM »
That's so infuriating. I try to pick up trash that I see but there's only so much I can pick up.

Offline mt-mike

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #31 on: Jan 13, 2022, 12:55 PM »
paper is good.nothing pisses me off more then to see plastic bags floating down the river or  lake or nine hours out in to the ocean.

Offline MT-Trout Slayer

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #32 on: Jan 14, 2022, 08:40 PM »
If it were only so simple that out of state people - like myself and my wife - who have lived here for 20 years were responsible for all the bad things that have happened to hunting and fishing. Unfortunately, from what I have witnessed in the last 20 years, that it's at least a 50% chance that a native from Montana just might contribute to some of that too. I have found plenty of trash and plenty of illegal acts - shooting from a motor vehicle at game - littering at favorite target ranges, dumping trash from a truck when they get out to cut a tree out of a road behind a closed, gated road to indicate it isn't just out of state people who recently moved in. If everyone did pick up a little trash and was more considerate of others and the woods/waters it would be a better place. The other notable thing is a person may indicate they're a native or just not say, but I have found a high number of those people aren't native either but like to act like they are and complain about people that came here after they came here...I guess it takes all kinds. I agree you might as well get over it as it's not going to stop and you can't fix stupid...just sayin.

Offline BobberdownMT

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #33 on: Jan 15, 2022, 09:54 AM »
I’ve lived in the same town in Montana my ENTIRE life. Never lived anywhere else for any amount of time. There has been ZERO positive changes to the extreme influx of people moving here to hunt and fish. Zero. And there isn’t going to be a positive change. Nothing good will come out of dozens of thousands of people moving here because of what they see on social media. No sentimental value to the state or land at all. Just want the trophy animal. Very saddening and disgusting the changes I’ve seen because of this population explosion. My kids will never have the same opportunity as I did because of it.

Offline BobberdownMT

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #34 on: Jan 15, 2022, 10:09 AM »
Come on let’s hear them. I want to hear some positive changes to outdoor recreation in montana when the population doubles and continues to grow. Let me guess, any reply I get has to do with money.

Offline BobberdownMT

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #35 on: Jan 15, 2022, 10:16 AM »
Money is medium for continued destruction. I’m looking for positive changes to our Montana values and way of life, the land, and the wildlife. The things I care about

Offline missoulafish

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #36 on: Jan 15, 2022, 11:44 AM »
You aren't wrong Bobber....

Offline wyogator

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #37 on: Jan 15, 2022, 11:57 AM »
Unfortunately, I'm a smoker.  ::) But I carry a small container with a lid on it in me pocket to put me butts in. Seeing those things on the ice is disgusting.  :sick:
I have seen smokers use an empty water bottle also.  The sad thing is many of these slobs that litter the ice probably have an empty bottle rolling around in the bottom of their sled.🙄

Offline olbaits

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #38 on: Jan 16, 2022, 12:03 PM »
Whiskey tangos in MT are at an all time high. It’s sad and pisses my off too. Lots of bad and unsafe behavior.

Offline MT-Trout Slayer

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #39 on: Jan 16, 2022, 07:59 PM »
The point I was making above is that the poor behavior isn't limited to out-of-stater's or young people or old people or....when you try to lump a group of people into a category you are likely incorrect on a large scale. If you were to do a survey of all the biologists that work for MTFWP, I would bet a large percentage of those folks weren't born in Montana. Does that mean they all litter when they go ice fishing or hunting? Same goes for a large percentage of the people who are state employees as well. Then there's the military bases...how many people on those including the highest in command are from Montana? Does that make them all part of the litter crowd? They probably were ordered to Montana. I guess they don't have any positive effect on anything either?? You have no factual data to support your statement that none of the non-native Montanans make a positive effect on hunting, fishing and outdoor recreation in Montana. I guess you are probably wrong about the population doubling as well - more inaccurate information. It's one thing to make a statement - "I found some litter on the ice today and I picked it up like any good person would do. I sure wished people wouldn't litter on the ice" which is a perfectly good statement and attitude or you could make a statement bashing a large group of people that probably isn't accurate and pat yourself on the back thinking somehow that will cure the problem.


Offline Coosangler

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #40 on: Jan 16, 2022, 08:17 PM »
Now to be captain obvious,  I feel like it's a failure to enforce existing laws....
Game wardens are specifically designated to protect wildlife but they usually ignore the slob flicking cigarette butts and trash everywhere but have no qualms writing tickets for the dreaded Mary Jane.....
Even worse is they won't let you off with a warning if you agree to clean other people's trash up
Okay so I can't really deny that my personal take on it all may be tainted by traumatic fishing experiences.....

Offline BobberdownMT

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #41 on: Jan 16, 2022, 08:35 PM »
You kind of missed the point. The point is the more people you have the more of the bad crap you’re going to find out there. And yes I’ve witnessed some Washington folks do the most absurdly disrespectful crap I’ve ever seen. Things I’ve never personally witnessed before. It could stop me from hunting all together. Washington is proof that not every state has the same values in conservation of the land and wildlife lol

Offline MT-Trout Slayer

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #42 on: Jan 16, 2022, 10:55 PM »
There's an easy solution...maybe you can convince your legislators to get the national parks de-titled so the 3 million people a year to Glacier and however many millions that go to Yellowstone stop coming to Montana. Then you could maybe get them to stop filming Yellowstone - the tv show - so more people don't find out. Maybe they could ban "A river runs through it" since that's why my neighbor moved here.  I'm sure they could then pass a law to stop all out-of-staters from becoming in-staters. A few simple new laws could end it all. You have another year plus before the next legislative session. I'm sure you won't have any problems getting the Governor - another out-of-stater- to pass a few laws to shut this sh*tshow down. Then we can all tackle the litter problem as it will be much more manageable. I agree...those Washintonians are the worst...can't hardly get any tags in Idaho now because of them. They ruin everything.

Offline remyjames23

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #43 on: Jan 17, 2022, 08:55 AM »
There's an easy solution...maybe you can convince your legislators to get the national parks de-titled so the 3 million people a year to Glacier and however many millions that go to Yellowstone stop coming to Montana. Then you could maybe get them to stop filming Yellowstone - the tv show - so more people don't find out. Maybe they could ban "A river runs through it" since that's why my neighbor moved here.  I'm sure they could then pass a law to stop all out-of-staters from becoming in-staters. A few simple new laws could end it all. You have another year plus before the next legislative session. I'm sure you won't have any problems getting the Governor - another out-of-stater- to pass a few laws to shut this sh*tshow down. Then we can all tackle the litter problem as it will be much more manageable. I agree...those Washintonians are the worst...can't hardly get any tags in Idaho now because of them. They ruin everything.

Not sure I would call de-titling two National Parks a simple new law...Also as much as I hate the influx of people in this state, especially rich people who saw it on a TV show and want to live the "cowboy" life in their million dollar homes, this is still the "United" States of America and there will never ever be a ban on people moving here. Citizens of the USA have full right to come here the same as we can move if we want. If we want people to respect the land and resources we need to teach it in schools, enforce it more strictly, higher fines, give the fisheries biologists power to cite minor things like littering?, more officers, and people need to be able to call a group of fishermen or hunters who aren't doing the thing out respectfully.

Offline missoulafish

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #44 on: Jan 17, 2022, 09:04 AM »
YELLOWSTONE is garbage. Its embarrassing that junk is made here.

Offline icefishmissoula

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #45 on: Jan 18, 2022, 01:54 PM »
It amazes me the hatred for out of staters yet two of them were elected to office this past election.

Offline missoulafish

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #46 on: Jan 18, 2022, 02:06 PM »
Red is red in some peoples books....

Offline PerchPounderMT

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #47 on: Jan 18, 2022, 03:02 PM »
It amazes me the hatred for out of staters yet two of them were elected to office this past election.
A transplant Republican is still better than our backstabbing native Dims.     :tipup:
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oldschoolben

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #48 on: Jan 18, 2022, 05:47 PM »
What the hell happened to this thread ?

Offline meandcuznalfy

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #49 on: Jan 18, 2022, 05:59 PM »
Kinda went off the rails.

Offline BobberdownMT

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #50 on: Jan 18, 2022, 07:04 PM »
Out of staters are being elected because out of staters are voting for them

Offline icefishmissoula

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #51 on: Jan 18, 2022, 07:57 PM »
Snitch, nice summery and recommendation to make our rivers and lakes a better place!

Offline MT-Trout Slayer

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #52 on: Jan 18, 2022, 08:06 PM »
  I totally agree!  However, why did you stop there?  Why didn't you have "ALL" of the immigrants go home.  Leaving the state of Montana to the original Americans, or the "Native Americans"!  It is preposterous to think that "any" states people are the cause of the problem.  Until one realizes that "WE" are the problem, there will be discrimination and turmoil.  There are a lot of people on here who want to rant and rave about things but do very little to try and fix it.  They would rather take the easy way out and sit at their computer and type away the problem.  Have any of you tried volunteering at your local elementary, junior high or high school, speaking about the issue effecting your community?  Have any of you actually got a group of kids together and spent a Saturday driving around cleaning up public lands where trash accumulates?  And yes, I have taken my son and a few of his friends out to walk around lakes on public land, picking up trash.  And, going to state land parking lots, filling trash bags so numerous we had to make two trips with a pick-up.  And, I have actually presented at seminars at our local school system, on the topic of "wildlife and the influences humans have on their habitat".  I have also taught "Changing Behavior" classes at two different county jails to their inmates, as part of their pre-release requirement.  It was an eight week program designed to teach how our behaviors influence the children of our community.  As part of the program, we took inmates out into the community and picked up trash at the local schools, parks, fairgrounds and other community places.  This was done on Saturdays and the inmates wore their street clothing, so that the kids didn't know they were inmates. Also in order to conceal their identity we took the inmates from one county over to clean up the other counties land.  There are a lot of things you can do to influence the younger generation, none of which are sitting at your computer complaining!  If you have done things to help the situation, I commend you, if not, get to work!

Thank you for supporting my earlier points in that Mr. BobberdownMT would like to blame out-of-staters for littering on the ice with very little or no supporting evidence. I'm sure the Native Americans would agree with you regarding giving the land back to the actual residents. You hit the nail on the head to actually take an active role in the environment which we do every time we hit the trails, rivers or shooting ranges in picking up other peoples litter. My wife takes her class fishing yearly - Snappy's or some of the local state fish ponds and teaches them other earth friendly lessons. In my previous life of guiding for many years, usually tried passing on about conserving the resources - both hunting and fishing. The main point of getting involved in this discussion, it is pretty easy to point fingers at a group - at least on the roads you can somewhat identify the newly arrived folks by license plate - but to find some cigarette butts on the ice and then go on a rant about how all the out-of-staters are ruining Montana and with the population doubling their kids won't have the same opportunities as they did. The entire issue is much more complex than that but not everyone is a critical thinker nor do they have to be.  Just like at the gun club, don't hold your breath that everyone or even a majority will get directly involved as the same 50 people pick up  the trash and put the range back together out of the 600 members. The same guys that grew up road hunting teach their kids to road hunt, even though the instructor at the safety course just taught them it is illegal and unsafe to do so. The same guys take their kids fishing and watch the parent throw their trash on the ice or down the hole and drive home drunk. We'll never cure that - I just don't want to be lumped into that crowd because I wasn't born in Montana - it's that simple.

Offline missoulafish

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #53 on: Jan 18, 2022, 08:12 PM »
Yup ... All the out of state trash moving here is fantastic! X2 Icefishmissoula, Snitch nailed it lol.

Offline darkeyez

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #54 on: Jan 18, 2022, 09:08 PM »
Sounds like most of you hate litterbugs on the ice, every time I drive on a local 4 lane it's a pig pen and I would say it's from locals! Just a couple of years ago I was hunting neat the Pocono Raceway, WTH there's garbage laying all over in the woods, apparently they had a lantern festival at the racetrack and what goes up must come down, those paper lanterns were laying everywhere in the woods. There is another instance where I saw a mess in a field where I used to hunt Indian relics, they now hold a local fair there and have a large fireworks display, there was junk laying all over the place from those fireworks. How about those mylar balloons, seems like most people have no problem releasing them for various occasions. Face it, there are people out there that just don't give a darn about making a mess, and just seems like there are more and more of them as time goes by.  :(
I also have about 100 yds. of road frontage that's good for 1-2 large bags of litter every year, sometimes even people's full garbage bags, I love it when those morons have their correspondence in them with their names and addresses, then I give them to the Township and they contact them!

Offline BobberdownMT

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #55 on: Jan 19, 2022, 06:15 AM »
I’m not talking about litter I’m talking about Montana values and most importantly conservation of the land and wildlife which I’m very passionate about and will never stop fighting for it. Those of you who haven’t been here long will never now how this place used to be. It will never be the same and it’s only going to get worse until people turn Montana exactly into what they were running from in the first place

Offline mt-mike

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #56 on: Jan 19, 2022, 07:20 AM »
a lot has changed in the last 40 years fishing and hunting spots get crowded  influx of people moving here change sucks! you have two options stay home or do the things you love with more people around.

Offline BobberdownMT

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #57 on: Jan 19, 2022, 07:35 AM »
Do you really think current hunting and fishing regulations, developed when the population was half the size it is now, will be sustainable through the population boom and the thousands more coming over here to hunt every year? Absolutely not. When my daughter is old enough she’s going to have to draw her first deer license and I’m not ok with that. It’s going to be one of those every 2-3 years that we will be able to do any hunting period. (Sounds a lot like the states people are moving away from). When this happens, and it will don’t fool yourself, I bet more people will be on my side lol

Offline BobberdownMT

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #58 on: Jan 19, 2022, 07:40 AM »
Can you imagine the animosity towards out of staters when someone who has lived here their whole life has to sit back and watch while someone who just moved here gets to go hunting because they we’re lucky enough to draw a general license that year? Oh boy I can’t wait!

Offline PerchPounderMT

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Re: Some people are clueless!
« Reply #59 on: Jan 19, 2022, 08:06 AM »
Can you imagine the animosity towards out of staters when someone who has lived here their whole life has to sit back and watch while someone who just moved here gets to go hunting because they we’re lucky enough to draw a general license that year? Oh boy I can’t wait!
It has been a thing for quite  while,they set aside 10% of the hard to draw tags for out of staters...in some areas they have better draw odds than you do....thats how much the MT F&G cares about its residents.
Dont ask

 



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