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Author Topic: Air Bladders  (Read 4319 times)

Offline Team Lightning

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #30 on: Jan 28, 2013, 09:03 PM »
Oh Ya !!!

EDIT: Of course if you keep short fish and mention it here, or post a pic, you run the chance of public humiliation tactics and lambasting! 


Here is a quote from another thread


Dead Sea Cuffer
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Re: license fees not to be increased!

« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2013, 03:53:36 AM »

Quote


Nice work team lightning    Now could you look up selective harvest  and try to apply it..  Then maybe , some of those tiny fish you've been posting pictures of and taking home might get released back . Thats not even sportsmanlike keeping some of those fish..  We would have a true dead sea on our hands if everyone harvested fish like that ..How big of fillet do you get from a 6 inch wally anyway ?  Ive never kept one that small ....




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Now youve seen it .

Offline rbmchief

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #31 on: Jan 28, 2013, 09:07 PM »
Sorry to see that on here, I'm glad it's few and far between. Don't worry about it man, I say let keep on keepin on man, no reason to let some other dude ruin a good fishin trip. If you didn't break any laws or rules who cares what some other dude who wasn't there says. I used to fish the heck outta keyhole when life wasn't so busy, never caught much but I enjoy seein your pics
I'd rather do it on the ice

Offline missoulafish

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #32 on: Jan 28, 2013, 09:08 PM »
At no time is it ever adviseable to poke a hole in the internal organ of a fish.

Offline rbmchief

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #33 on: Jan 28, 2013, 09:10 PM »
And Keith I think that anyone that knows you, either in person or just from shanty knows how much of a good guy you are, I've seen you help more people with fishin at keyhole than anyone else on here on any other lake so I wouldn't worry about what some lurker posts.
I'd rather do it on the ice

Offline wyoutdoors

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #34 on: Jan 28, 2013, 09:58 PM »
Hey, whatcha gonna do? Every forum seems to have their share of Trolls, but at least the ones on IS are few and far between. I'm just glad I never posted my perch pics from Healy a few seasons ago, I'd have been run off lol.  ::)

Offline Team Lightning

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #35 on: Jan 28, 2013, 11:27 PM »
Mike....

The thing is that it is NOTHING MORE THAN BEING A TROLL....

see this post from        http://www.sdoinsider.com/key_hole_reservoir

Key Hole Reservoir - Monday, December 31, 2012
 By: Dead Sea Cuffer on 12/31/2012 02:41 AM | Add Comment | Post New Report |   
  The sardine perch are as ravenous as ever >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I encourage all you SD fisherman to come fish the dead sea !!!!! Help us wyoming guys get these sardine perch thinned down !!!


So the WYOMING guys get LAMBASTED while the troll is begging South Dakota guys to come over & clean them out of the lake.   WHo woulda figured the guy goes both ways.

Offline benwyo

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #36 on: Jan 28, 2013, 11:55 PM »
I think most of us Shanty members know when to keep them and when they are safe to let go, but we are far from perfect and all make a mistake once in a while... Thats life..... But this spring up at Hawk Springs I was fishing caught several walleyes and several Crappies... The Game warden came over to my boat and asked the usual... License and stamp and told me everything ok on board... After looking at my fish he asked me if I would like and to take a couple of Largemouth Bass that he just found belly up, but still kicking a little and they where only 14 inches long and the regs says under 15 inches you have to release them.... I told him I would and he said no problem and you will not have to count them in any of your limits.... He gave me his name and badge # and cell phone #, and said if anyone gives you any trouble just call my hotline and you will have no problem... He told me he would rather give  them to someone to eat instead of just becoming seagull bait... Really a very nice Warden I do not care what anyone say's about them...... benwyo



Offline wyoutdoors

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #37 on: Jan 29, 2013, 12:22 AM »
Back in Kansas the wardens would let me keep a number of ducks over my limit. They had hunted with me and my Labrador enough and knew I sent him after cripples on the way back to the truck. Some were emaciated and I'd get rid of them, while some were fresh cripples and I would take them, rather than to let them starve and die in the marsh.

Didn't hurt I could call birds in whenever they wanted to bag a limit quickly! :tipup:

Offline benwyo

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #38 on: Jan 29, 2013, 12:29 AM »
Back in Kansas the wardens would let me keep a number of ducks over my limit. They had hunted with me and my Labrador enough and knew I sent him after cripples on the way back to the truck. Some were emaciated and I'd get rid of them, while some were fresh cripples and I would take them, rather than to let them starve and die in the marsh.

Didn't hurt I could call birds in whenever they wanted to bag a limit quickly! :tipup:
;D ;D ;D



Offline Monarch8x8

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #39 on: Jan 29, 2013, 01:18 AM »
Dang. I need some good ice to fish. Come on cold front! You guys are starting to sound like you've been stuck in a cabin together for a winter.   ;D

Offline walleyepig

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #40 on: Jan 29, 2013, 07:47 AM »
Here is my take on it.... I've been pulling crappies out of 60+ fow, and perch and walleye from 30+ for years.

A) Reel them in much more slowly, then cut that in half. Savor the moment, C&R fishing is about quality, not quantity. You have a pretty good idea if you are fishing for the frying pan or not. If the fish is going to be released, bring it up as slow as you can. It is good practice anyway, easy does it with really big fish on light line. Learning patience when pulling fish up may very well help you land the fish of a lifetime some day.

B) If the eyes are bugging out, toss it on the ice and eat it.

C) If it floats belly up but it's eyes are in, blow in its mouth. It sounds stupid... I didn't believe in it at first. But blowing hard on it's throat pucker seems to do something for them. I have been using this season and have been seeing really good results.

D) Shake the fish like it is a glass katsup bottle, give it two or three good jolts like you are trying to get katsup out of it's mouth.

E) If it still won't go, you can try the toilet plunger action in the hole. I usually just toss them on the ice at that point.

F) If you need B,C,D, and E more than a few times per trip, go back and read A again more carefully. ;D

Those tournament guys just want them to swim away. Fish floating next to the boat looks real bad.... They don't give a crap about what happens to them from there.

Your experiences may vary, but this is what I've seen and done myself.
Reeling up slow is the key. The slower the better.

Offline swampdonkeyice

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #41 on: Jan 29, 2013, 08:37 AM »
The nice crappie I target are in 35 to 40 feet of water, unfortunately, you catch a few small ones, and moving shallow is not an option, as the fish are deep.  I fizz the small ones with a 20 gauge needle, and watch them swim all the way back down on my flasher.  I hope the small hole heals, better than pushing them under the ice like 90% of the tools do out there, at least they have a chance.

onice2013

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #42 on: Jan 29, 2013, 05:19 PM »
Reeling up slow is the key. The slower the better.
I liked reading your methods for trying to release air in the bladder, going to try that if I have to. thanks for sharing ;)

Offline Skipper

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #43 on: Jan 29, 2013, 05:43 PM »
Being that I CAN get gas out of their mouth, and often they will burp, I wonder if the stomach fills with gas too. After doing a bunch of reading, there is really no way that float bladder gas can escape through the mouth. Salmon and trout are the only ones with a "dump valve" to release pressure through a duct.

Maybe an inflated stomach + an overfilled float bladder is really the death sentence.... If they have (excuse my terminology) fart gas in their innards under pressure, that gas should also decompress and expand as you bring them up. Ever wonder why tulibee (cisco) and white fish poop all over when you bring them up? Maybe that is why...

Just thinking out loud.... 

Offline Rebelss

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #44 on: Jan 29, 2013, 05:46 PM »
Fish get the "bends", too.
“The mass of men live lives of quiet desperation”  Thoreau

Offline gemcityslayer

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #45 on: Jan 29, 2013, 05:57 PM »
The nice crappie I target are in 35 to 40 feet of water, unfortunately, you catch a few small ones, and moving shallow is not an option, as the fish are deep.  I fizz the small ones with a 20 gauge needle, and watch them swim all the way back down on my flasher.  I hope the small hole heals, better than pushing them under the ice like 90% of the tools do out there, at least they have a chance.

I'm not so sure about that.  I'd love if one of our game and fish biologists would chime in on this one.  It's been said before but just because you see them swim back to the bottom - doesn't mean they will actually make it. 

Either way, it's not the end of the world if we kill a few fish here or there: by poking holes in them, bringing them up too fast and from too deep, or hooking them deep in the gut.  The bottom feeders (crawfish) have got to eat too - some people automatically think it is a waste but it is all perspective...  That is just part of fishing sometimes we kill fish when we would rather not have.  Part of the game. 

Offline GDRB

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #46 on: Jan 29, 2013, 06:14 PM »
Problem Solved.  I've been using this for a few years now.  I've used it on dozens and dozens of fish from 15-50 pounds.  Works like a charm.  (disclaimer) In the last month I acquired the mold and materials to make and distribute them.  Nor to get rich, but to save the lives of some very, very old fish.   www.lakersaver.com   They will again be available in less than a week.  (Production ceased for nearly a year with the original manufacturer--Its a one-man operation!)

And a couple years ago, MountainMan gave me the ok to share this on the site, so if it saves some fish, mission accomplished.

Offline Skipper

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #47 on: Jan 29, 2013, 06:15 PM »
Maybe a bullhead gets a free meal, maybe I do, maybe the fish lives to fight another day. It's the circle of life, we are still the top of the food chain! Protecting the resource we love is what counts, and taking a reasonable amount of fish home isn't gonna hurt it.

I think fizzing should be a last resort on a fish that can't be kept, but that's just me. I leave the deep walleyes and bass alone in August due to high mortality too.. August is catfish time anyway..... ;)

onice2013

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #48 on: Jan 29, 2013, 06:55 PM »
I feel bad when a fish I release doesn't make it but, I too agree it is part of the cycle of life and they feed upon each other anyway. I'll throw it on the ice if it doesn't go down after trying to get it down the hole.  I caught walleyes with 8 inch crappie in their guts so, dieing or dead become easy food under or on the ice should they not make it, I wouldn't keep doing it if it kept happening but for a couple fish i bring up filling their bladders. They feed  on each other anyway. I usually take my time bringing small fish up in deep water knowing the fish I intend to release is better off coming up slow in deep water for this reason.  For me it doesn't happen too many times to be a big concern. Good topic  , helps the rookies that aren't aware that speed reeling fish up from the deep can harm the fish.

Offline outdreye

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #49 on: Jan 29, 2013, 09:26 PM »
I went to big mak  a few years back to do some walleye fishing. Was doing a little trolling surprised what I saw between 15 to 20 walleye moving in circles in 90 degree weather all of them over 8 pounds.  Was one of the most discussing things I've had ever witness I say help them if their going to die anyway. It's worth a shot in my book.

Offline icingeyes

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #50 on: Jan 29, 2013, 09:40 PM »
Been out fishing Keyhole a few times this year before we got the snow. Noticed a couple perch dead under the ice. Stuck to the bottom of the ice. Water was 38 feet. Holes had been drilled in the area earlier. My guess they died from the air sack coming out of there throats. If I intend to fish water that deep I keep the fish. Most of the perch I catch the air sack is pushed from there stomachs. No need wasting fish. Seen to many people out there pushing them back down the holes. Catch and release is great but you r just releasing them to die later.

Offline Houligan

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #51 on: Jan 29, 2013, 10:55 PM »
Been out fishing Keyhole a few times this year before we got the snow. Noticed a couple perch dead under the ice. Stuck to the bottom of the ice. Water was 38 feet. Holes had been drilled in the area earlier. My guess they died from the air sack coming out of there throats. If I intend to fish water that deep I keep the fish. Most of the perch I catch the air sack is pushed from there stomachs. No need wasting fish. Seen to many people out there pushing them back down the holes. Catch and release is great but you r just releasing them to die later.

That's probable but will never know for sure so it can only be speculative as to the cause of death. I say this because there were dead perch under the ice where I fished this past week in 18 feet of water. Highly doubt it was from the depth and so called fish bends.




Over all ANY fish caught and released has a higher percentile chance of mortality.

Fish caught through the ice are handled with gloves in a lot of cases removing the protective slime, the gloves possibly have residues of gas and who knows what on them.  A fishes gills can freeze fairly quick in cold weather causing them to eventually expire also but yet we hold them up for pictures, show them off to the other fisherman, we drop them on the ice etc... etc... There are many things that kills fish after they are caught by fisherman.

Bottom line if our intent is to release some or all of what we catch I for one am willing to do any thing and everything in my power to release that fish back to the water as healthy as possible. I don't and have not fizzed many over the years but have done it with confidence that the fish survived when I needed to. They will not survive beyond that if I fillet them so what is the lesser of the two evils?

Cheers!

Offline swampdonkeyice

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #52 on: Jan 30, 2013, 09:31 AM »
I went to big mak  a few years back to do some walleye fishing. Was doing a little trolling surprised what I saw between 15 to 20 walleye moving in circles in 90 degree weather all of them over 8 pounds.  Was one of the most discussing things I've had ever witness I say help them if their going to die anyway. It's worth a shot in my book.



This occurance was NOT due to bloated fish, we lost thousands of big walleye this year during the extreme heat due to poorly oxygenated water, only claimed the big fish, 5 lbs and up.

Offline MountainMan

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #53 on: Jan 30, 2013, 01:10 PM »
Responsible lake trout regulars carry descenders. Don't see why you couldn't rig one of these up for smaller fish.

Some fish that can burp, don't always, and need help getting back down to where they came from and where they're neutrally buoyant again. Works slick. Put it in the fish's lower lip, lower 'em back to where they came from, a quick tug and the fish is happy.

SFD- Looks like it would work slick for smaller fish!
http://www.sheltonproducts.com/SFD.html

One for larger fish:
http://fishflaminggorge.com/

Offline WGFFishBio

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #54 on: Jan 30, 2013, 04:12 PM »
I'm not so sure about that.  I'd love if one of our game and fish biologists would chime in on this one.  It's been said before but just because you see them swim back to the bottom - doesn't mean they will actually make it. 

Either way, it's not the end of the world if we kill a few fish here or there: by poking holes in them, bringing them up too fast and from too deep, or hooking them deep in the gut.  The bottom feeders (crawfish) have got to eat too - some people automatically think it is a waste but it is all perspective...  That is just part of fishing sometimes we kill fish when we would rather not have.  Part of the game.
While there's nothing in the regulations about "fizzing" being illegal, we do not allow it for tournament anglers and we would discourage most folks from doing it. Yes, it's not much different than a gut-hooked trout caught on bait and an angler biting the line and releasing the fish, or anglers holding a fish out of water for pictures, or anglers accidentally dropping the fish on the ice or gravel bar prior to release.  All that we ask for is that each and every angler take a moment, have some perspective, and do what is going to be best for each situation. Gut-hooked and bleeding, keep it, slips out of your hands for a moment but appears OK, release it if you're wanting to. Air bladder protruding out of it's mouth, keep it and perhaps reel the next fish in a little slower the next time.

Hope this helps

Offline gemcityslayer

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #55 on: Jan 30, 2013, 04:21 PM »
Thanks for the reply, as always, much appreciated.  I think most anglers use pretty good judgement. 

Offline er-e-is

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #56 on: Jan 30, 2013, 07:17 PM »
I use a homemade version of the "Lakersaver" that is mentioned above. I have to believe they work.

Offline ksmith94

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #57 on: Jan 31, 2013, 04:19 PM »
The following are summaries from some recent work  done on this topic. might help the debate.        I would still suggest keeping fish that are caught from depth as has been recommended.

Effects of Decompression and Puncturing the Gas Bladder on Survival of Tagged Yellow Perch

Overinflation of the gas bladder following rapid depressurization is relatively common in fishes caught in deep water and brought to the surface. Currently, the most commonly used method to reduce mortality caused by overinflation is to puncture the gas bladder with a hypodermic needle. Although the method is widely used, few studies have been conducted to determine its effectiveness. We conducted a series of experiments on yellow perch Perca flavescens collected at 10 and 15 m depths in Lake Michigan. Fish were either measured for length (control), measured and tagged, or measured, tagged, and punctured. The fish were then taken to an enclosed hatchery facility. Fish brought to the surface in stages (decompressed) had higher survival than nondecompressed fish; this effect was greater for fish caught at 10 than 15 m. Unpunctured fish floated for up to 72 h before regaining neutral buoyancy; less than 2% of the punctured fish floated on the first day. Puncturing the swim bladder had a significant, positive effect on 3-d survival. Tag returns from fish released after the experiment indicated that puncturing did not decrease longterm survival. This study demonstrates the effectiveness of puncturing the gas bladder in reducing direct mortality caused by bladder overinflation, and indirect mortality of the stricken fish which are vulnerable to predation and adverse environmental conditions at the surface. Decompression positively affected survival and, because of its ease of use, warrants further investigation.

Laboratory Evaluation of Artificial Swim Bladder Deflation in Largemouth Bass: Potential Benefits for Catch-and-Release Fisheries

Artificial swim bladder deflation was examined as a technique to increase postrelease survival of largemouth bass Micropterus salmoides caught from deep water. Depressurization was simulated with a hyperbaric chamber. Largemouth bass showed clinical depressurization signs when depressurized from a simulated depth of 3.5 m and were unable to immediately submerge when depressurized from 8.4 m. When depressurized from a simulated depth of 10.5 m, largemouth bass experienced 0% mortality when subsequently held at 14°C but 78% mortality when held at 28°C. Survivors floated for more than 6 h, a response that could expose them to higher water temperatures in stratified lakes and to increased predation, illegal harvest, and injury. Depressurized largemouth bass that had their swim bladders deflated by being punctured with a hypodermic needle were able to submerge and experienced no mortality when transferred to 14°C or 28°C. The punctured swim bladders were functional immediately. Growth over 4 weeks did not differ significantly (P > 0.05) between largemouth bass with or without artificially deflated swim bladders, and no deaths occurred over this period. We recommend artificial swim bladder deflation for largemouth bass showing depressurization signs and caught from depths greater than 6 m.

Offline Houligan

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Re: Air Bladders
« Reply #58 on: Jan 31, 2013, 10:30 PM »
Hmmmmmm! ;)

Interesting to say the least...

Thanks for the information and may they continue the study for more concrete conclusions.

Thanks!

 



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