Some people are clueless!

[zcm_82]

Non-resident get priority first draw lottery over residents here, been that way for years. All about snagging that $300 per tag for non-resident vs $25 for resident.

[darkeyez]

I’m not talking about litter I’m talking about Montana values and most importantly conservation of the land and wildlife which I’m very passionate about and will never stop fighting for it. Those of you who haven’t been here long will never now how this place used to be. It will never be the same and it’s only going to get worse until people turn Montana exactly into what they were running from in the first place

Ask any old timer in NE PA, we "HAD" the Poconos which was prime hunting and fishing and mostly woodland, now it is development upon development!! I agree exactly with what you are saying, we saw it happen and it's not getting any better, all I can say is good luck!!!!!

[mt-mike]

by the time i have to wait 2 or 3 years to draw tag to hunt it will not matter i will be to old anyway

[BobberdownMT]

Sorry I shouldn’t be so negative. I get told they a lot. Ill shut up now

[oldschoolben]

Why are you even replying to a Montana site? Stay in Michigan and keep your god damn liberal ideas out of Montana

[oldschoolben]

I'm actually from Idaho ,I moved here 22 years ago, I understand how the hatred towards out of staters is so strong,  but I would like to think I'm one of the good ones tho

[Born Late]

The further this thread strays from the original topic, the more it confirms for me the title is accurate.

[DR.SPECKLER]

Im just here for the read.lol

[Iceassin]

The further this thread strays from the original topic, the more it confirms for me the title is accurate.

 

And some of the comments confirms to me that the next Civil War is fast approaching...maybe even the Apocalypse isn't that far away either. 

[oldschoolben]

Your comment about the Trump supporters was out of line in my opinion,

[PazzoCorso]

  What part?  The part that he wants to be King?  Just ask him, he'll tell you the same thing.  And, if you hadn't noticed, I didn't say anything political until a Republican brought it up! Have a good day.

Please don't speak of the "Great Orange"....

[mt-mike]

i think we should put up a wall

[R-K]

Damn- I didn't realize I was so hated here. I'm just trying to keep my head down and catch some fish. Oh, and apparently save up more for a house. Because I just got priced out. Again.

[icefishmissoula]

Nah, you’re not hated here! Some people are just grumpy. It’s conservation that supports greater numbers of wildlife and that has only improved over the last 50 years in Montana. OUR lands will continue to improve as people fall in love with Montana and want to ensure it remains a healthy ecosystem.  In 16 years of fishing and hunting here, the biggest litterers that I have encountered have all been Montanans. It’s not people who move here who are throwing they’re beer cans out the window and it definitely isn’t pbr drinking hippies.

[missoulafish]

Gotta disagree that our lands and outdoor experiences are going to get better. Full trailheads, boat ramps, a car parked at every wide spot on a mountain road, 12 people chasing every bugle, more and more elk pushed to private land, more people hammering on finite resources etc etc ..will never make Montana better.  That's the exact opposite of better.

[meandcuznalfy]

Gotta disagree that our lands and outdoor experiences are going to get better. Full trailheads, boat ramps, a car parked at every wide spot on a mountain road, 12 people chasing every bugle, more and more elk pushed to private land, more people hammering on finite resources etc etc ..will ever make Montana better.  That's the exact opposite of better.

Yep, and if your governor has his way private land will be impossible to hunt on.

[olbaits]

Not sure what Montana you live in IFM but it’s not the one I’m experiencing. Things are far worse now and most of the trash I encounter is out of state. Just my experience anyway. Posts before mine are more like the MT I’m living in. IMO, social media, onX, atvs…have changed the state in a short period of time. Education is a big part of the problem, clueless humans. Oh I digress.

[icefishmissoula]

I live in Missoula, I may have ran into a handful of hunters all year and I easily put 20+ days in the woods. Rarely was someone parked where I wanted to hunt. The bugles I heard and the elk I chased were smarter than me and had nothing to do with another hunter. My wife shot a doe on public land with my 8 year old and 5 year old daughter with us. After passing on several bucks with our kids in tow. My wife killed her biggest buck to date on public land. I shot my buck the 2nd weekend of the season on public land.  The few times I went elk hunting in rifle season on public land I was out smarted by elk and not another hunter. I am taking my two daughters ice fishing tomorrow. If it’s a slow day, it’s not some out of staters fault. I fly fished the 2nd weekend of January, caught 4 trout and had the whole river to myself. Quit with the complaining about other people. Work on the weekends so you can have the woods to yourself. Find the off seasons to have the rivers to yourself. The more we take care of our land and our rivers the better our lands will become. The more people that use them the more people there will be to fight for them. We are the minority in this state, we need people to hunt so that we do not end up like other west coast states. I encourage you to take some new hunting or fishing this year, their vote may be the vote that saves trapping or bear hunting or who knows what else. 

We drive roads looking for trash to pick up not animals to shoot out the windows. All I hear from this forum is how people are supposed to stop being lazy to catch their fish but how the parking lots are full. If someone else is where I am going hunting. I know I can go farther or be quieter then them. If they beat me to the herd, I should have started earlier or taken a different route knowing what they would do.

I have a place up rock creek and have my own complaints about Washington plates, do not get me wrong. However the campsites that are trashed with 5 vehicles at them when there is room for 2, that’s always Montana plates. The road hunting and litter out the windows, that’s Montana plates. The casings and rounds left at every gate and turn around spot, that’s Montana plates. The reason lots of private land owners no longer open up their land has nothing to do with out of staters, that’s their neighbors that trashed their fences and drove wherever they wanted to go because they felt entitled.

[BobberdownMT]

Ya I don’t know where the hell this guy is living at either lol.

[missoulafish]

Huh....

[olbaits]

Well congrats to you and all your success. Let’s agree to disagree.
That’s all folks. 🤣

[mt-mike]

BS

[Gone_fishing]

Ya I don’t know where the hell this guy is living at either lol.

I second this....no way this guys hunting public land MT lol. And sure you can find bucks on public land, fork horns and some young 4 pointers but Mule Deer hunting on Public Land has been especially impacted by increase of out of state hunters.

[Born Late]

Just a reminder that today is the last day FWP will be accepting comments regarding the proposed changes to 2022 and 2023 hunting seasons and licenses.
https://fwp.mt.gov/aboutfwp/public-comment-opportunities/reg-proposals

Another reminder is that the current primary voice on the FWP Commission is GG appointee Pat Tabor.

Missoula Current
“Tabor runs Swan Mountain Outfitters, which has had the concession for trail rides in Glacier National Park and runs a variety of other trips, including winter snowmobiling and hunts in the Bob Marshall Wilderness. A 2018 Forbes article said the business brought in about $2.5 million a year.

But in 2005, Tabor had the money to give the business a good start, because he had been working more than 25 years as a top accountant at H&R Block in San Diego. Since then, he’s made his money off the scenery and wildlife – the public trust – of Montana.”

Billings Gazette
“…Tabor said he is not interested in ‘bulldozing or coming in with a specific agenda.’ However, he went on to say that he feels nonresidents, who supply a large portion of the funding to Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks because their hunting and fishing licenses are more expensive, deserve a larger say.

‘I’ve always felt quite strongly that nonresidents don’t have a voice relative to what happens in Montana … I think when we talk about sportsmen it needs to be all inclusive.’”

[missoulafish]

That's f$&@in wonderful!!! Said no one ever!

[mt-mike]

money not everything.

[Gone_fishing]

That's fine if out of staters want to come to Montana and spend money on licenses, fuels, hotels etc...but if they want to come they need to play by rules set by the people of Montana. They should not have a more of a voice on Montana management strategies. By law the wildlife belong to the people of the state in which the wildlife reside. We already have enough out state liberal lobbyist groups forcing wolves and grizzlies on us, lobbying fish and game to poison our creeks to "restore" native trout populations (yet said group was up in arms about the brown trout eggs when the Hebgen dam malfunctioned, figured they'd be happy since they want to poison brown trout everywhere else), pushing  bills to ban trapping, the list goes on and on. We don't need out of staters now telling us how they want our elk and deer to be managed.

[mt-mike]

a lot very wealthy people move to mt buy big tracks of land close off access roads that we natives used for years try to chase you off rivers you have a right to use.with wealth comes power to make deals with mtfwp,mt state etc. we get a pittance of we once had if anything
and most of these people do not live here all year and think they can buy resident tags. give me less money for the state less people added to the state and the access i once had any day.plus less access means more crowds.

[R-K]

On a side note- I think that banning the Air BnB model of rentals and adding an insane tax on non-resident homeowners would curb the amount of single-family homes being taking out of the residential housing market.

You can't stop people from moving here, but you can mitigate their impact.

[Petoskey]

I certainly get that too!  It appears the rich feel they can do whatever they want and get away with it.  In fact, it happens all the time.  Our system is set up for the rich to progress and get richer and the rest of us continue to fight and struggle for everything we get.  Our system is set up for them, do they care if they have to pay exorbitant amounts for; housing, healthcare, medicine, gas, schooling, vehicles and it goes on and on.  I have said for a very long time now that underclass, which continues to grow wildly, will sooner or later decide they have had enough and take what they want, instead of work for it.  And, if the current situation with people not wanting to work and the crime rate, especially what you see on TV about people stealing in the trainyards of LA, the mobs robbing fine jewelry stores and high price clothing stores, is any indication, it is starting to happen.  The majority will prevail.  And, the majority is real tired of a very select minority having all the wealth and comforts.  But, this thread is about littering, not the rich closing roads, rivers hunting areas or anything else!  And I stand by my comments.  I do not feel that out-of-staters pollute "your" woods and waters, anymore than those born in Montana.  It is a social thing and until we educate our youth, the problem will continue to get worse.  Why, because the youth of today will grow up to have kids, if they don't know what is right from wrong, how do they teach those kids, right from wrong?

I understand what you are saying, and as a native Michigander living in Montana (don’t worry native Montanans, I’m a poor wildland firefighter that can’t afford to buy a home here so I won’t be here for too much longer ) I have to emphasize that this is an incredibly complex and sensitive issue in the state of Montana currently.

There is a mass influx of people moving here from out of state including those from California, Washington, New York and Oregon. The majority are incredibly wealthy. Houses that once sold for $150-200k are now selling for $400-600k. To a retired couple from San Francisco, Portland, Seattle or LA that’s chump change. They can afford to sell their homes for up to $1mil and move to Montana and buy up some land with it.

The housing crisis isn’t the only issue. From my own perspective, the folks that are moving here don’t culturally align with those that are native Montanans. Honestly, a California conservative barely comes close to aligning with a native Montana Democrat. Politics aside, it’s just a weird time in the state right now and the topic of out of staters is a touchy subject. Whether they’re moving here or just coming here to fish/hunt, Montanans just want people to be respectful and quite frankly be left alone. I can’t blame them for that at all.

I’ve travelled and worked a lot of different places for my job and I would say this state is as close as it gets culturally to where I grew up Michigan. The way I look at it is, how would I feel if my home state experienced the same population growth within 10 years, and to be blunt, just didn’t like the type of people that were moving there?

I see you’re posting with good intentions but it’s hard to understand if you haven’t seen it first hand. It’s an issue that won’t be solved anytime soon and I feel terrible for the native Montanans who aren’t able to make ends meet or have affordable housing in their home state. You talking about out of staters bringing money into the state when they pay for licenses, tags and trips to Montana may be true but that point is completely nullified by the larger issue at hand.