Author Topic: Pike Leader? (Read 28517 times)

MeadowPikeman · « **Reply #60 on:** Feb 04, 2008, 05:57 PM »

i found even the 60# easy to tie

make sure you use pliers to pull and tighten the tag ends.

IceTroll · « **Reply #61 on:** Feb 04, 2008, 08:04 PM »

I have never broke any of the 30lb Malin. That includes fish pushing 25 lbs. You must have weakened the wire when you tied it. It really is not that hard to tie if you start with a big enough tag end. Run it through the eye, fold it back, rap it around 4 times and back through the loop above the eye, pull it far enough to where it wont pop back through. Do the same on your barrel swivel end. Grab both tag ends with two pair of pliers and pull until it stretches. Thats it, good to go. I have never broke a Malin leader on litterally hundreds of fish.

Pickeral Pete · « **Reply #62 on:** Feb 04, 2008, 08:19 PM »

Troll, I looked through the posts and found I reported 30# Malin break back in 05'. I believe too that it was most likely a small crimp or pinch I made when I tied it. OK, so it happens very rarely BUT when you have 20# fish on a tip up for sometimes up to 12 hours things are going to happen. I still would never go back to plain old steel leader.

MeadowPikeman · « **Reply #63 on:** Feb 04, 2008, 08:33 PM »

we have landed close to 100 fish this since the middle of december have not had one failure yet with the malin leaders. including several from 15-20 lbs.

IceTroll · « **Reply #64 on:** Feb 04, 2008, 11:20 PM »

Gamedog, I am telling you, if you are breaking that 30 lb stuff when you are pulling it tight, you are doing something wrong or you have a bad batch of wire. Its that simple. I have been using that stuff for more than 7 years and it does not break unless you wayyyyyyy overstretch it. When you tie the knot I described (I believe its called the clinch knot), your knot is not going to look pretty. Its not designed to pack down like when you tie mono or superbraid. If you are messing with the knot trying to pack it down or stretching the wire more than two or three times, the failures are your fault because you are weakening the wire. Its that or you got a bad batch. There are no other choices. Too many people have been VERY successful using that 30 lb wire.

IceTroll · « **Reply #65 on:** Feb 05, 2008, 01:30 AM »

Quote from: Whatpole on Feb 04, 2008, 11:55 PM

I am going to have to agree with Gamedog on this. I bought the 30 lb. I did not touch the line with pliers. I tied the clinch knot with 3-4 wraps. I pulled the line tight by pulling on the hook and the swivel only. I still had 3 out of 10 break on me .

I think it is funny how this godsend stuff that everybody swears by can't even stand up to being lightly used by pulling it by hand . This is minor in comparison to a 20lb+ northern tugging at it . I would hate to know how many times a 20+ lb northern or a lake trout stretches it in the course of 5 minutes. I don't know if I want to risk losing a 20 pound fish because of a "bad batch" . I will be using the Malin this coming weekend. I will post my experience with it after I have been able to officially use it .

Sorry for the rant.

But thats the whole point Whatpole. You dont tighten the wire by pulling on the hook and swivel. You tighten it by pulling on the tag ends. You dont put the pliers on the wire between the hook and swivel either. YOU PULL THE TAG ENDS. If you tie the stuff correctly it will hold. I realize when your dealing with something new there is a learning curve but the Malin wire is probably the best stuff out there for your application. I have been fishing Ft. Peck for 13 plus years and read my lips. I have never personally broke a Malin wire. Does it happen? sure it does? Is there anything on the planet that is 100% realiable? I doubt it. This stuff works if you tie it right. You can use whatever you want to use but for me, the proof is in the pudding. Sorry if I sound a little testy but the manufactorer tells you to tighten by pulling the tag ends, I have told you to tighten it by pulling on the tag ends and so has several others. Then you tie it wrong, break three leaders and your mad about.

MeadowPikeman · « **Reply #66 on:** Feb 05, 2008, 02:13 AM »

i'll had the same experience before i realized to do not pull on the hook, but on the tag ends, pulling on the hook or the leader it self creates a weak point where the knot slid. i have straightend out hooks with this stuff a couple times already so you should never have a problem with it breaking if it is tied properly.

scavengerj · « **Reply #67 on:** Feb 05, 2008, 08:37 AM »

Just wanted to say thanks to all for a very interesting thread. I enjoy threads like this where the minute details are looked at. Sounds as if you guys belong to some of the surf boards. Those guys can go on and on with the pros and cons of various lines/leaders/knots. There is a nice one out there where they have actually performed break strength tests on various lines/leaders/knots. I know a 100#+ thresher shark in the surf or a 35#+ blue in the surf doesn't compare to a 25# pike, not to mention when they talk of casting 8nbait 200+yds but, there is some very interesting similarities in threads of this type there. Gotta luv'em

jayman64 · « **Reply #68 on:** Feb 05, 2008, 03:52 PM »

well pike leaders i have tested steal leaders
they limit the movement on the minnow if you dony use a minnow its diffrent but any way i am a minnow guy ill jig for the bass and wait for my flag i fish in about 5 to about 8 ft of water around hear i try to get buddys so we have a better chance i use 3 to 4 feet of normal 12 to 16 pound test connect it to the icefishing line with a leader it works amazing i catch soo many more pike. just take your time with the fish that all i got 2 on sunday and it took about 5 min for them to tire out then and the came rite up to the hole

cookr · « **Reply #69 on:** Feb 08, 2008, 12:05 AM »

I received my Malin BOA NO-KINK from the little brown truck today, (UPS). Very neat stuff. This leader is strange in the fact that when you tie a knot in the line it snaps back at you, (let me explain)! When you grab each end with pliers and pull the tag ends on the leader it snaps back at you. I told my wife about this and she laughed at me, (she said have another beer, so I did), can't turn the little lady down. My question is, how close to the knot do you clip the line off on the tag ends? The knot's are not tight like you would see on a mono leader. Earlier in the post I asked about the use of a perfection knot used in conjunction with my main line? Experimenting at the kitchen table with the the perfection knot, (looks as if it would work very good). I have not had a chance to use it in the field, (but time will tell). Thanks...

bucky · « **Reply #70 on:** Feb 08, 2008, 11:57 AM »

Cookr,

My order of Malin arrived yesterday as well. I tied some clinch knots, perfection loops and some crimped loops. Tightened the knots as directed, trimmed tags ends very close and then tested them. With one loop anchored on a bench vise and a screwdriver shaft thru the other, I noted the following: Perfection loops and clinch knots created weak spots. The line always broke at the knot when either of those knots were used. The 30 lb wire was breaking around 20lbs when a perfection loop or clinch knot was used. The perfection loops were breaking before the clinch knots when one of each was used. The loops I made with crimp sleeves (single sleeve, running the wire thru 3 times) held better than knots with break point about equal to the 25lb Tiger Line I use for tipups.

I'm a little disappointed that the knots are not 100% strength like they would be on mono or floro. On the other hand, I'm not using this stuff for trophy pike and it is going to suit my needs just fine. I'll be using it as a bite tippet for walleye where pike are common enough to require bite tippets. If targeting pike I would certainly go with heavier stuff and may get a spool of the 60lb just to tie up a few pike leaders for me and my friends.

Try some knots and see what works for you. My test was very unscientific as my goal was to test their strength for walleye rigs. It passed. If I had a pack scale (marks the max load applied) I would use it to test each type of knot but I don't have one. Of course my knots may be different from yours, too. Good luck and let us know what you come up with.

Bucky

IceTroll · « **Reply #71 on:** Feb 08, 2008, 02:12 PM »

I am curious what you were using to measure the break strength Bucky. I certainly appreciate your approach to this and appreciate the information. For your information I did a little test with mine. I took one of my quick strike rigs in the 30 lb and attached it to a 40 pound barbell weight. I easily lifted a 40 pound weight from the floor and held it there. I had no breakage. I did not go any higher in weight because I felt this was an adequate test to measure the break strength of my knots. Maybe when I have some more time I will see how much weight I can actually pick up without a break. I have no doubt that crimping would make it stronger but crimping kinda defeats the purpose of how I use the Malin. I figure picking up a 40 lb weight is a pretty good test of a fishes ability to put pressure on the line. I am leaving on Monday the 11th of February for a 15 day trip into big Pike waters and I plan on keeping a log book on all my tipups. I have both 30 lb and 40 lb Malin rigs tied up. I will keep a log of what fish I catch on what leader and the performance. Upon my return I will post my field results.

bucky · « **Reply #72 on:** Feb 08, 2008, 03:53 PM »

Icetroll,

I was using a digital fish scale. I hooked on the leader and pulled while trying to get a reading as I kept increasing the pressure until it broke. Tough to do but I think I was in the ballpark. Keep in mind this was purely to satisfy my curiousity on the strength of the knots as they will apply to my fishing. I could have done a better job tying knots and been more consistent in my testing. A pack scale would have helped a lot to get an accurate reading of the break load. That said, I did discover that clinch knots and perfection loops are not 100% strength when used with the Malin ti wire. Those knots were designed for mono and are near 100% strength when tied correctly. This wire doesn't allow the knot to tighten as designed and obviously it concentrates load in a smaller area when weight is applied. Therefore, I would conclude that if you want 30lb knots, you'd better start with wire rated higher than 30.

I have no doubt the leaders I tested would land any pike at or under 25 pounds unless an ATV was used in the retrieve. Still, if I was targeting large pike I would have gone with something heavier than 30#. My goal is to avoid heavy wire while being able to land pike in the 10-15# range rather than let them rip my hooks off and disappear. So I'm optimistic about this stuff and will report results after my next trip a week from now.

Best of luck to you.

Bucky

bucky · « **Reply #73 on:** Feb 08, 2008, 09:33 PM »

Update: A buddy was over this evening so we tied up several more leaders using the 30# Boa. Used perfection loops, clinch knots and crimp sleeves. Perfection loops are proving to be a disaster. Best test weight we could get was 16.5lb by my fish scale (steady pull, not jerking). Lowest was just over 12lb. Clinch knots broke between 15-20 lbs. Loops made with crimp sleeves were the only ones that broke the line away from the knots or crimp.

Here's the scary part - while tying up some of the knots my buddy starting breaking the line by hand. No pliers. I thought that was odd until he told me that he wasn't putting pressure on the wire. He was just twisting the line to make a clinch knot. A couple more times he broke the line while trying to tie a knot without even pulling on the line. Obviously we found a weak section of line that couldn't even stand up to finger pressure. I broke several more sections using a pliers at well under 10lbs pressure. Diameter looked similar but I'm not going to bother measuring/testing any more. I've seen enough.

I've got an unopened package of 30lb Malin Boa No-Kink that I'm willing to deal on.

darkhousefisher · « **Reply #74 on:** Feb 08, 2008, 10:21 PM »

I like 20# Berkely Steelon leader material. Made up a leader and pulled on it steady with my digital fishfinder, Quit pulling at 40# and it still hadn't broke. Maybe it's not as fancy as Malin, but it hasn't failed me yet, and it's a heck of a lot cheaper. Just my $.02.

AirManCam · « **Reply #75 on:** Feb 09, 2008, 03:47 PM »

While you fellas sit here and argue how its good and bad, my mono just pulled me up a 41" pike, so I'm all set :-) lol :tipup

Skipper · « **Reply #76 on:** Feb 09, 2008, 03:58 PM »

Quote from: AirManCam on Feb 09, 2008, 03:47 PM

While you fellas sit here and argue how its good and bad, my mono just pulled me up a 41" pike, so I'm all set :-) lol :tipup

Sometimes you get lucky. I prefer not to bring a knife to a gun fight.

I use fluoro leaders for bass and walleye in the summer and get bit off by pike routinely. I use Fluoro LEADER, not fishing line in the 17 to 20 lb range.

I caught a 39'' pike on 2lb mono a few years back. I thank Jesus for landing me that fish and use metal leaders for pike.

AirManCam · « **Reply #77 on:** Feb 10, 2008, 07:39 PM »

Sometimes? Thats all I've been fishing with for the last 10 years, and my fishing buddies for the last 25 years? Theres a reason why we haven't converted. Yes, there is a good chance of getting bit off I suppose. Sure, we've tried steel leader, and caught fish, but we believe we get a lot more hookups on mono.

lethalconnection · « **Reply #78 on:** Feb 11, 2008, 03:29 PM »

Looked online for NY pike and this picture popped up

walleye tattoo · « **Reply #79 on:** Feb 11, 2008, 09:26 PM »

I ordered the 20# Malin BOA no kink I do not care what the brake strength is I do not want to get bite offs I will be using crimp connectors witch I think is stronger than trying to tie a knot with any wire.

MeadowPikeman · « **Reply #80 on:** Feb 12, 2008, 04:16 AM »

use 10# mono pike cannot bite through it.

walleye tattoo · « **Reply #81 on:** Feb 14, 2008, 06:45 PM »

BOA non kink I give up can not get a knot or a crimp to work.JMO

bucky · « **Reply #82 on:** Feb 15, 2008, 11:28 AM »

I'm guessing that the 60# test would make a 25-30# leader after knots or crimps are applied. Of course that's assuming that there are no quality issued like I had where the wire could be snapped by hand without even pulling on it. Had I ordered the 60# stuff in the first place I would have been OK with it. But I'm not going to spend any more money on the stuff and reward their lack of quality control.

sledder · « **Reply #83 on:** Feb 15, 2008, 11:15 PM »

I've caught alot of pike both through the ice and during other seasons and I've never had a fish break off while using fireline. Pretty simple to tie also.

AirManCam · « **Reply #84 on:** Feb 17, 2008, 02:53 PM »

Give up sledder, we can't win we'll never be able to catch fish with out geting bit off on our non-wire leaders

FondoFishin · « **Reply #85 on:** Feb 22, 2008, 04:06 PM »

40 lb. flouro all day. Granted I haven't tangled with and 20+, but I landed one around 16 lbs with about 3 inches of leader in its mouth fighting like a MOTHER and the line was barley nicked...luck? maybe, but I have landed ALOT of pike with the line in their mouths and I think a 10lber and a 25lber have the same chance at cutting the line, its all in how you play the fish.

KenB · « **Reply #86 on:** Nov 21, 2008, 06:18 PM »

going through some leader threads and this one has a healthy debate. I've been using #30lb malin titanium for casting jerk baits and bait fishing for pike. I like the action on the jerk baits and when tying to a barrel swivel and braid it gives some shock affect. No problems with the cinch not but I'm not catching anything over 12lbs. Planning a trip to lake raindeer for some biggins. After reading some of the concerns I tested the strength by trying to lift 20lbs and it broke sometimes at the knot and once below the knot. Seems like somewhere between 15-20 which is good for now. I'm thinking I better beef up for my Canada trip. I really like that it has some stretch and good lure action and is super thin. Might try the #60 but not sure my lure action will be as nice.

7 plus larry · « **Reply #87 on:** Nov 22, 2008, 08:22 AM »

I use steel leaders 3ft. in length

AirManCam · « **Reply #88 on:** Dec 19, 2008, 04:43 PM »

I'm still using my 15lb maxima mono.

ddl · « **Reply #89 on:** Dec 02, 2011, 04:48 AM »

guys titanium leaders is total junk.since years(10 years or so) musky fisherman like me have switch from titanium to fluro.for obvious reason!
titanium will broke without any visual warning,very poor resinstance vs tortion,i have lost no of fish whit that stuff.i have even lost big cranks witout any fish on it.
i know that topic is a lil bit old but if i can save guys a hook and a pike life i'll be happy

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Author Topic: Pike Leader? (Read 28517 times)