Thinking 'Outside the Box' regarding fisheries management in Nebraska

[Uplandhuntr]

Big Alkali is 850 acres of water.  If you could add enough "brush" to cover 85 acres, and that would be a lot of "brush", it still would not make a $0.05-worth of difference in terms of fish production.  Brush piles function as fish attractors that concentrate fish making them easy to find and catch.  In all but the smallest waters brush piles and similar cover projects provide little in terms of real habitat benefits.

Fish populations are dynamic.  The crappie, perch, pike and carp populations in Big Alkali have been through several cycles of ups and downs.  They will again.

Daryl B.

Would add cover for small fish to hide and give them a chance to grow. 

I love Fish's comment on this, and it reminds me how limited some folks in wildlife and fisheries management  can be when thinking about issues they don't read about in 'Journals'.

Why not let some folks with good intentions tie some cement blocks onto used Christmas trees to create some habitat?  Who cares how the statistics work out?  You would be allowing folks that care, and their kids, participate.

Perception is reality, and right now the reality of the NGPC is all about $$$.  Why wouldn't you let folks do something that has absolutely no down-side, and could actually 'recruit' future generations through participation?

Heaven help us if it, as Fish Icer says, might provide cover for YOY fishies to escape to actually recruit...

Isn't those the biggest hurdles?  Sportsperson retention and recruitment of new?

I just don't get the 'It won't do any good so go away' attitude.

I'll go to my corner now, and eat my 'bologna' sandwich. 

[kylerprochaska]

which thread did the quotes come from?

[Uplandhuntr]

which thread did the quotes come from?

Topic: Merritt Fishing Report  (Read 2825 times)

[watercat]

Quote is from Merritt fishing report regarding the move of the Valentine Tourney from Big  Alkali to Merritt

[kylerprochaska]

ah, thanks... in regards to adding brush to lakes, I have mixed feelings.  You may get some cover for smaller fish, but the reason they work as "fish attractants" isn't totally for cover.  The large fish are attracted to them, not totally because of the cover, but more because they can easily pick off the smaller fish hiding in the cover.  It may help out the population some, but I really don't think it will make much of a difference in a lake that size.  A better plan in my mind would be a slot limit on pike, and possibly a "sponsored" bowfishing tournament for carp a couple times this summer... good luck with the NGPC allowing either of those though.  ... behind the times for sure

[bigfishon]

I think adding cover to any lake will beneficial in the long run. I have seen fake tree piles added to Jeffrey lake and it is holding some nice crappie every time I've fished them.

[Uplandhuntr]

Yeah, didn't want to highjack the other thread, but wanted to catch the jist of the conversation within that is a really important topic for me and the Wee One that I am trying to get interested in catching fish.

Kinda tired of hearing that eastern Nebraska just cant do it.....bologna. 

And you will never hear me say that I will pay more to make it better.  Get rid of the pickups with full graphics and put it into rearing, importing, and/or stocking some fish and I will be happy.  Start checking for park stickers....not depending on county Sheriff's to do it.

Saying that crappie find their way into any newly renovated fishery may be true, but why not be the agency that dumped a few in there on record and take credit for it as part of a management strategy?

I just don't get the whole strategy of the Nebraska Game and Fish agency.  Seems to have more to do with PR and $$ than biology (both game and fish, at least the way I see it.  I will say the non-game folks see the writing on the wall, and use modern technology to their advantage.  Perhaps that is where the priority is, or else that is where there are some employees that understand their audience.

I am not going to call 'bologna' to anyone that answers and hope for some really good conversation. 

Sorry for the rant....this state is truly set in its ways, and when they hired the new Director from within I knew it wasn't going to change.

Oh well, we are all just uneducated sportsmen and women that have a passion for what we do, doesn't mean we have access to the 'journals', just real life experience.

Grrr.....I'm done, thanks for reading and nothing personal meant to anyone.

I gotta get out between the wind and bitter cold with the Wee One....what a strange winter.

[bigfishon]

In my personal opinion on the pikes in lakes are as follows there a fish that will continue to prosper no matter what management. The bigger pike will get bigger until caught and put on the wall or cleaned and ate. I say add lots cover tell everyone to keep all pike that they catch and put largemouth and smallmouth bass and more catfish in the lake. And keep pumping bigger gills, perch, and crappie in there. And for the carp have a carp shoot or carp tourney. Or let people try to net them. As soon people still like canned carp. As big alkali for example if you have ever been there during the summer you would see the huge carp problems.. I thought at first Big alkali just had tons of dink perch and crappies and huge pike until this summer it is over run with carp and big pike

[Crash04]

I like the idea of a bowfishing tourny.   Are there any around?   I read somewhere once that walleye are good way to keep a bluegill population down.  I know if this is true it will only work in certain situations. Has anyone else every heard of this?

[eyewinder]

One October day 25 or so years ago a group of Valentine-area sportsmen hauled, secured, weighted, and dumped a bunch of old tire reefs into Merritt.  I don't fish the lake often, but happened to be there grouse hunting/fishing that weekend.

I'm curious, does anyone on this board know whether there were visible benefits?  Did/does anyone fish the rubber reefs after they were installed?

[nebftbl]

"Perception is reality, and right now the reality of the NGPC is all about $$$."

Agreed!   First off, I don't know their jobs.  However, it does make you wonder what is going on in this state with the game and fish opportunities when Kansas and South Dakota offer better ones both for upland game and fishing.  Every time I hear of a lake being killed off and restocked I know I have fished it for the last time.  I have never seen good results from this.  Quit practicing your "strategy" in our fishing spots!  Sandhill lakes like Merritt and the Valentine refuge have been great for years without interference from NGPC.  STAY OUT! 

Mark my words, the state will issue just as many deer permits in 2014 as they did in 2013 and 2012 because they will still want our money even though we all know what has happened with the deer numbers over the last 3 years.  If you don't think so just look at the daily bag limit for pheasants today compared to 1960.  REALLY?   Even my 12 yr old asked "Why don't they just close pheasant season for a couple of years?  All about $$$$ not preserving and passing on our sport.  Nebraska has a lot of public hunting land sure, but is is full of temporary habitat.  If it is dry we hay it and graze it.  If it gets too good we burn it and plant it to "special" grass not native to the area.  I have seen thousands of acres in Banner county that at one time were full of good, established habitat for game animals.  When the landowners enrolled it in CRP the state made them tear it up and plant other "native" grass.  Problem is that the habitat they just destroyed took hundreds of years to establish and already was host to many game animals.  Those animals are not just waiting across the road for their house to be rebuilt, they are gone.  And those "CRP" fields? You could roll a bowling ball across them, and you and I are paying for that.  In more ways than one!

Nebraska hunting and fishing opportunities are over-managed by the state.  More government employees trying to justify their jobs.  And if you are one of them and this makes you mad then we are even.

Thanks for your attention in this matter.

[Huntin247]

Uplandhntr:  I am going to have to disagree with about everything you just typed.  I can think of several Great Lakes in eastern Nebraska that have been renovated and are now better fisheries- WW and YH

Also, even though this is a fishing forum, I will respond to your pheasant comments and CRP comments.  Tearing up old uniform CRP allows for the reset of plant succession and more vegetative diversity which in result equals better pheasant habitat!  Also, not killing roosters for several years will not increase the population.  Pheasants only have an average lifespan of like 14 months,  better nesting habitat and brood rearing habitat are the key to rapid population growth.

Whether it is a lake renovation or upland habitat renovation, there will always be a short term loss that will provide long term gains

[Martinezb9]

Just wanted to share this story. Last year on opening day of bullfrog season me and a buddy went to wildwood. To my surprise there was a game and parks truck parked in the lot. I was glad to see it was there because being my first year trying to catch bullfrogs I had a few questions. So I found the game and parks guy and asked him some questions regarding where they might be located. He said he did not know. Then I asked him about bullfrog season starting that day to make sure I had read the regulations correctly. He said I had no idea it started today. I understand not knowing where bullfrogs might be but not knowing it is opening day for something seems weird. This was just my only runin with game and parks other then that I have no complaints.

[ice dawg]

Was he a CO or just a person who works for game and parks? I wouldn't expect anyone but a CO to know seasons or regulations.

[Martinezb9]

Was he a CO or just a person who works for game and parks? I wouldn't expect anyone but a CO to know seasons or regulations.

I am assuming the CO. He had the game and parks truck the game and parks uniform. But I have no idea for sure. I hope it was just someone who works for them. I was excited to finally get to talk to them and get some helpful information. And I did not know there were differnt kinds of game and park employees that walked the parks.  Other then that one encounter I have never had a problem with them.

[GRIZZ08]

"Perception is reality, and right now the reality of the NGPC is all about $$$."

Mark my words, the state will issue just as many deer permits in 2014 as they did in 2013 and 2012 because they will still want our money even though we all know what has happened with the deer numbers over the last 3 years.  If you don't think so just look at the daily bag limit for pheasants today compared to 1960.  REALLY?   Even my 12 yr old asked "Why don't they just close pheasant season for a couple of years?  All about $$$$ not preserving and passing on our sport.  Nebraska has a lot of public hunting land sure, but is is full of temporary habitat.  If it is dry we hay it and graze it.  If it gets too good we burn it and plant it to "special" grass not native to the area.  I have seen thousands of acres in Banner county that at one time were full of good, established habitat for game animals.  When the landowners enrolled it in CRP the state made them tear it up and plant other "native" grass.  Problem is that the habitat they just destroyed took hundreds of years to establish and already was host to many game animals.  Those animals are not just waiting across the road for their house to be rebuilt, they are gone.  And those "CRP" fields? You could roll a bowling ball across them, and you and I are paying for that.  In more ways than one!

on the note that state made them tear up land that took so many years to enroll it in CRP that is not true in order to be enrolled in CRP it would have to be cropped a certain number of years within a given period of time.  there is no way it can be enrolled in "CRP" it may be enrolled in something else but it all go back to the landowner.  why did he enroll it in some program that would tear up good grass to plant it back to grass.  its all about $$$$ and the might bushel of corn when it comes to habitat.  not that they are over hunted or to many predators.  not enough habitat is it my friends i have seen more trees and grass tore up in the last five years all for a bushel of gold.

[Sandbilly]

  Every time I hear of a lake being killed off and restocked I know I have fished it for the last time.  I have never seen good results from this.  Quit practicing your "strategy" in our fishing spots!  Sandhill lakes like Merritt and the Valentine refuge have been great for years without interference from NGPC.  STAY OUT! 

Wish more people had your views on renovated lakes.  BTW if you've fished a public Sandhill lake there is a good chance it's been renovated at one time or another. In fact I would say the top four producing Sandhill lakes this season have been through a renovation recently.

Have no idea if adding fish attractors on Big Alkali would increase pan fish recruitment or survival. I do know the last three ice tourneys on Merritt have been won on placed tree piles so they do attract fish and fishermen.  

Here's another line of thought. Water clarity is as good as I've ever observed in Big Alkali right now. My opinion is the large predator fish have (and will continue too) put a hurtin on all species including carp until conditions change. With good water clarity, will vegetation eventually grow allowing for greater yoy recruitment and survival?

dc           

[JimQ]

Some of you knuckleheads make some pretty bold statements in this tread and level them squarely at an upstanding guy that I, for one, appreciate having around here.

Suggesting that you know more about Fisheries Management than a guy who has been thoroughly educated on the subject and (judging by his blogs) eats, breathes, and sleeps this stuff makes no sense to me.

Kinda reminds me of the guy on the Progressive commercial that struts up and says "I got this" and tries to get in on the chainsaw juggling act.

There is no possible way you can come to a truly informed understanding of these situations unless you've lived it from all sides.

I keep seeing this "Perception is reality" quote thrown around here.  I think it's missing one very important word.  Try this on for size... "YOUR perception is YOUR reality".

The same issue can appear totally different and a contrasting solution may be the appropriate one when seen from another point of view.

a-holes and elbows Fellas.  I respect yours.  But, there is no need to insult a guy who's trying to help you put more quality fish in your bucket.


Daryl - Feeding the monkeys can be pretty thankless work especially when they start hurling crap at you.

I appreciate your participation.  Thank you.

Q

[whitetips]

Wow, I have learned a lot this morning.

We have enlisted the help of volunteers to place brush piles and other fish attractors into Nebraska waters.  By the way, don't waste your time with Christmas trees, we have cedar trees in most areas of the state that folks want to get rid of, and they last a lot longer than Christmas trees.  If any of you want to ram rod a project like that for Big Alkali, I can put you in touch with the regional fisheries supervisor and you can get something going.

Just do NOT expect the brush piles or any other cover objects to provide any real improvements in recruitment of any species of fish in an 800-acre+ natural lake.  You cannot add enough brush piles to result in a measurable difference, and there is already some natural shallow water cover, bulrushes, that do provide some shallow water habitat for small fish.

I opened my mouth about the brush pile thing, because I believe it is important that folks understand exactly what that does and does not provide.  If you think you are going to throw a few Christmas trees in Big Alkali and that is going to change that fishery, well, BALONEY.  Besides having realistic expectations I believe it is important that fisheries biologists and fishermen understand what the real problems are and do not waste time and money jousting with windmills.

Keep in mind that Big Alkali is called "Big Alkali" for a reason.  Alkalinity of that lake tends to run higher than most of the other sandhill lakes in that area.  That high alkalinity has an affect on water clarity, aquatic vegetation and fish production.  Northern pike and yellow perch can tolerate higher alkalinities, other species, not so much.  Even then, dynamics of the yellow perch and pike populations in Big Alkali are also impacted by fluctuations in alkalinity over time.  Fish populations in all waters are dynamic, always changing, there are always "ups" and "downs", and there is always give and take between predator and prey populations.

Anybody who wants to organize an archery carp tournament for Big Alkali can, anytime.  Organize a whole archery carp series for Big Alkali if you wish, have at it.  If you charge an entry fee we ask that you register your tournament, free registration.  Other than that, have at it.

Recruitment and retention of anglers is a huge issue right now.  In recent years we have directed a lot of time and effort towards that.  We have created and implemented several new programs to recruit and retain anglers in addition to managing waters across the state to provide the best fishing possible.  That in fact is all my job is any more.  Early indications are that some of those efforts are helping.

As a matter of fact, I drive one of the vehicles with graphics on the side of it.  Thought we were supposed to be promoting fishing and the recruitment and retention of anglers?

Our 5 state fish hatcheries produce over 30 million fish and stock over 250 bodies of water in Nebraska every year.  Nearly 1,000,000 fish have been stocked in Big Alkali in the past 25 years, everything from bluegill, black crappie and yellow perch to largemouth bass and northern pike, channel catfish and walleye.  Stocking fish is a common solution to all of our problems.  The only thing is we stock very few fish that are catchable-size when we stock them, and just dumping fish in any body of water is not guaranteed to make the fishing better.  In some cases it could actually make things worse.

I learned this morning that even though crappie show up on their own in eastern Nebraska reservoirs (a far different discussion than Big Alkali, but whatever), we should be stocking those too.  We do, have stocked some fisheries recently with black crappies right away to try to beat the bucket biologists from stocking them for us.  Maybe we are not so "far behind the times".

Someone asked if walleyes were a good way to keep bluegill populations down?  No, THE predator best suited for controlling bluegills and other panfish would be largemouth bass.  Largemouth bass/bluegills are a classic predator/prey relationship.

If you think you have not benefitted from lake renovations and rehabilitations, then I would like to know what bodies of water you are fishing in Nebraska.  We have accomplished A LOT for Nebraska anglers across the state over the years by doing chemical renovations when they are needed.  Yes, that includes sandhill lakes.  In recent years we have ratcheted those efforts up through our Aquatic Habitat Program.  Behind the times?  BALONEY.  Our Aquatic Habitat Program is the first of its kind in the country and fishing all over the state is better because of it.  We have been managing sandhill lakes and Merritt Reservoir for a long, long time and the good fishing you enjoy there now is the result of that.

I guess that makes us even?

I am here all day, if you have any bullfrog questions, or any other questions on fish, fisheries management or fishing in Nebraska, I will have a correct answer or I will know where to find it.

Daryl Bauer
Fisheries Outreach Program Manager
Nebraska Game & Parks Commission
[email protected]
http://neblandvm.outdoornebraska.gov/category/barbs-and-backlashes/

[Fishingnerd33]

It seems interesting to me that no one really complains until the weather changes and the ice goes to crap so everyone is cooped up inside all the time.  Every year, that's when the G&P bashing begins.

I won't address much as 'whitetips' doesn't need anyone to defend him.  His posts, blog & reputation stand for themselves.  I will say that most of us will have a question at some point about fishing and I can personally vouch that Daryl is the go-to when I need the correct answer regarding anything to do with fish. 

How many have addressed these issues in person with someone who could actually make some changes?  How many letters have been written?  Phone calls?  It's really easy to get on a forum and take pot shots at people & organizations.  It takes real guts to actually do something about it.  I don't agree with everything the G&P does, but that's not my world...I ain't educated in that stuff so I defer to the professionals, hence the constant stream of questions to knowledgeable people, like 'whitetips'.

I may be a backwards hick from the panhandle, but I know a good thing when I see it.  We have ample opportunities in this state, you just have to take advantage of them.  We can all moan and complain about what we don't have or enjoy what we do have.  I choose to do the latter.  Kansas, SD, and every other state have their fair share of problems...best part is, moving is always an option.

[whitetips]

It seems interesting to me that no one really complains until the weather changes and the ice goes to crap so everyone is cooped up inside all the time.  Every year, that's when the G&P bashing begins.

I won't address much as 'whitetips' doesn't need anyone to defend him.  His posts, blog & reputation stand for themselves.  I will say that most of us will have a question at some point about fishing and I can personally vouch that Daryl is the go-to when I need the correct answer regarding anything to do with fish. 

How many have addressed these issues in person with someone who could actually make some changes?  How many letters have been written?  Phone calls?  It's really easy to get on a forum and take pot shots at people & organizations.  It takes real guts to actually do something about it.  I don't agree with everything the G&P does, but that's not my world...I ain't educated in that stuff so I defer to the professionals, hence the constant stream of questions to knowledgeable people, like 'whitetips'.

I may be a backwards hick from the panhandle, but I know a good thing when I see it.  We have ample opportunities in this state, you just have to take advantage of them.  We can all moan and complain about what we don't have or enjoy what we do have.  I choose to do the latter.  Kansas, SD, and every other state have their fair share of problems...best part is, moving is always an option.

The ice opening up makes me cranky too.

 

 

Daryl B.

[CaptMo]

Thanks Daryl!  Keep up the great work!

[Uplandhuntr]

Uplandhntr:  I am going to have to disagree with about everything you just typed.  I can think of several Great Lakes in eastern Nebraska that have been renovated and are now better fisheries- WW and YH

Also, even though this is a fishing forum, I will respond to your pheasant comments and CRP comments.  Tearing up old uniform CRP allows for the reset of plant succession and more vegetative diversity which in result equals better pheasant habitat!  Also, not killing roosters for several years will not increase the population.  Pheasants only have an average lifespan of like 14 months,  better nesting habitat and brood rearing habitat are the key to rapid population growth.

Whether it is a lake renovation or upland habitat renovation, there will always be a short term loss that will provide long term gains


Nothing personal, because I don't know you and you don't know me.....please quote me regarding any comments that I made regarding CRP in this thread and I will give your comments some weight.

[Uplandhuntr]

Suggesting that you know more about Fisheries Management than a guy who has been thoroughly educated on the subject and (judging by his blogs) eats, breathes, and sleeps this stuff makes no sense to me.

Kinda reminds me of the guy on the Progressive commercial that struts up and says "I got this" and tries to get in on the chainsaw juggling act.

There is no possible way you can come to a truly informed understanding of these situations unless you've lived it from all sides.

I keep seeing this "Perception is reality" quote thrown around here.  I think it's missing one very important word.  Try this on for size... "YOUR perception is YOUR reality".

The same issue can appear totally different and a contrasting solution may be the appropriate one when seen from another point of view.
  But, there is no need to insult a guy who's trying to help you put more quality fish in your bucket.


Daryl - Feeding the monkeys can be pretty thankless work especially when they start hurling crap at you.


Q

This will be my last response to this, promise.  I stated a valid question, and sorry if anyone took it as an 'insult'.  I can't speak for the other posters.

I promise there are college educated folks on this forum that may not work for the politically driven state or federal agencies that have a ton of experience and are trying some pretty innovative things with fisheries management (anyone know Aquaman?....see bigbluegill.com)  Not too bad for a tooth driller, huh?

I don't spend my free time watching commercials, so can't comment about the commercial you reference.  Must be good enough to catch a monkey feeder's attention, huh?

Some folks can agree to disagree without taking it back to high school, where you kiss the behind of the guy you think is your connection.

Daryl,  I respect your participation and know that you get beat up, but would have thought losing one of the best in the industry and reading comments in that regard would be a bit humbling and realize that some folks may see your 'eye rolling' and 'boloney'  as arrogant to some folks and dismissing their concerns even if it is the millionth time you have heard it.

Good evening, sorry to those of you with valid points that got lost in the drivel, back to eating my bologna sandwich.

[icefishingcowboy]

There is allot of pointing fingers in my opinion and one thing I was always told when growing up is when you point a finger, look at your hand and there is 3 more pointing back at you. I know for a fact that the NGP dont renovate a lake for there health. They are just like you and I. They want to fish or hunt just as much as any one. What it boils down to is the NGP is done 50% of the work trying to help our fisheries or wildlife habitat, but the Nebraska Sportsman has to do the other 50%.

What I mean is catch and release, stay with in bag limits, selective harvest, and so on and so forth. They have a pretty good idea what they are doing we just have to stay open minded and do our part to help. That is the best thing about this forum. We have direct access to a guy who can inform us and show us what to do.

I know of a few guys that have made there own private ponds and did a great job at it. But my question is do you think they woke up one morning and said i know how to make the best bluegill pond in the state or do you think they ask some people that have went to school for this and really did there there homework.

At the end of the day we can complain all we want but when in all comes down to it, it is us that has to make the other 50% work otherwise you will only get 50% of the lake.

ZC

[nebftbl]

 

The obvious sarcasm made me laugh Daryl.  Thanks.  And Thanks for everything else that you do.  When I see something you have written I know it is worth the time to read it.  Always find good practical information in your posts, and articles.  I know I have emailed you too with trivial fishing questions and you were gracious with your time.  Not "kissing up" but like to give credit where it is due.  I did start by saying that I couldn't do your job. 
I'm sure you have managed several sandhill lakes for many years with good results.  Many of them were good for years before that too.  You asked specifically the lakes I fish.  I will give you two.  Harlan and Fort Kearney SRA.  Harlan had seen poor fishing for years (except for white bass) until the lake refilled covering all the vegetation that is now excellent habitat for the entire food chain.  Of course no man-made effort could produce results on that scale.  Walleye fishing was good again at Harlan this year.  Fort Kearney lakes were a good place to introduce kids to fishing.  Now they seem to get mossed over so bad you can't fish them.  Again, not sure why that is but no amount of money will compete against mother nature either.  Those wipers don't seem to want to eat anything other than the feeder food.  I am unclear on those efforts (and I admit, many others).
All of us take part in the goal of angler recruitment.  I make it a point to take my son and a friend or two, who wouldn't normally fish, whenever possible.  Even introduced my father-in-law to the white bass at Harlan last year.  He is recently retired and has only been fishing for a year.  Of course recruitment will lead to retention only if they find desired results.  Maybe this is where those brush piles come in.  Even if they don't do much for long term fish survival they might make it easier to catch a few and reward the newbies.

Not the right forum but for those of you posting and replying to the CRP comments, I stand corrected.  Those lands may have been enrolled in other programs but the landowners were required to destroy habitat and replant, with predictably poor results.  And as far as that ''short term loss for long term gain" goes, in south central NE when habitat like public hunting land is renovated you may have just destroyed the only habitat for miles around.  Any upland bird populations that had established there will be gone for several years.  Now, many of these are federal and not state grounds so it is not on Daryl's colleagues.   But, times change.  I don't ever expect my son will see pheasant hunting like my father did.  Nor did my Grandfather ever see deer hunting like my son has. 

May have to check into that Bullfrog thing though.  Do they respond to calls?  Maybe decoys!  Ha.

Don't worry Daryl, looks like the ice may return for a couple weeks.  Hey, how about another appearance on In-Fisherman?

Good work guys.  Love all the views and opinions.

[gohawks]

I'm going to give the Nebraska Ice Shanty forum one more shot.   I live in Omaha and fish on a regular basis.  When I say regular, I mean I fish both hard water and open water and at least 3 times a week.  Ask my ex wife.  She'll be more than happy to tell you how often I'm on the water.  I fish waters in Nebraska, South Dakota, and Iowa (where I'm from).  I fish both public and private water and I fish multiple bass circuits a year.  I'm not touting anything.  I'm just forming a foundation to show that I have a true passion for fishing.  If I could, I would be on the water every day of the week, but for now, it doesn't pay the bills.  I've been quiet on this forum because of the horrible taste it left in my mouth when Daryl B responded to one of my posts.  The word BALONEY and a couple eye rolls were involved when responding to a post where I talked about Lawrence Youngman lake in Omaha.  You can search for it if you want but that conversation isn't my main point.  My point is that obviously the Nebraska Game and Parks must have a job responsibility within the Game and Parks job description that states some sort of public relations...or community outreach is required because of the involvement in forums like this one and other online sources.  I was just like a lot of you who state their appreciation for his posts because of the information that he includes.  The information is interesting as far as knowing about the high alkalinity in the Big Alkali, what the NGPC has done historically, and what has/hasn't worked.  What isn't interesting is how he responds to enthusiastic fisherman that use this forum.  I like the word enthusiastic...I'll keep it.  This forum is NOT a journal and this forum should not be deemed as a credible source, meaning this should forum should not be used for your children's research papers.  This IS a forum.  This is portion of my forum post is to support Uplandhuntr because he seems to have gotten the blunt end of some responses.  If he wouldn't have posted what he did then we all wouldn't have had something to talk about on here.  We wouldn't have learned a little bit behind Daryl's post.  Even though I cringe every time he says BALONEY. 

That being said...

As an avid fisherman, I've always been told and gone by the rule of thumb that fish (especially bass) are typically concentrated in only 10% of the lake.  Meaning the other 90%, you may catch a dink or a stray but it's not as common as the other 10%.  I tend to think the 10% is more like 5% for larger lakes, but that's MY OWN OPINION.  So going back to the quote that I put in here...Daryl, you said that covering 85 acres in an 850 acre lake will not make $.05 of a difference in fish production?!?!  85 ACRES!  What I would give to have a lake that had 85 ACRES of cedar trees vs a lake that does NOT have 85 acres of cedar trees as cover.  I used the word production and cover differently because there is a difference.  BUT, are you saying that the 85 acres of cover wouldn't provide smaller game fish like bluegill enough cover in order to get large/old enough to spawn??? These are the fish that could have been eaten by predator species before they could spawn due to lack of cover.  The spawn would provide more baitfish that could use the cover in order to somewhat hide from predator species and the cycle goes on.  I'm going to assume that the conversation about providing adequate spawning areas in shallow water is more important, which I would agree...but I will not believe that providing 85 acres of cover will not give you $.05 worth of fish production. 

There are farmers in both Nebraska and Iowa that have a serious problem with cedar trees that grow in their pastures that would probably love it if someone would take the time to clear their trees to use for brush piles.  IMO, Game and Parks for every state need the help of fisherman in order to provide top-notch fisheries.  Providing cedar tree brushpiles would be a start.  I'm sure glad that you corrected Uplandhuntr's christmas tree comment though and stated that cedar trees work better.  Pretty sure we all knew what he was talking about.  When you work as a public figure, take a little more time to consider the people that you are responding to and how you respond because it leaves an impression.  I don't blame the rest of you for appreciating his information.  I'm just saying that it could be done better.  Hopefully use it as constructive criticism.       

I love Fish's comment on this, and it reminds me how limited some folks in wildlife and fisheries management  can be when thinking about issues they don't read about in 'Journals'.

Why not let some folks with good intentions tie some cement blocks onto used Christmas trees to create some habitat?  Who cares how the statistics work out?  You would be allowing folks that care, and their kids, participate.

Perception is reality, and right now the reality of the NGPC is all about $$$.  Why wouldn't you let folks do something that has absolutely no down-side, and could actually 'recruit' future generations through participation?

Heaven help us if it, as Fish Icer says, might provide cover for YOY fishies to escape to actually recruit...

Isn't those the biggest hurdles?  Sportsperson retention and recruitment of new?

I just don't get the 'It won't do any good so go away' attitude.

I'll go to my corner now, and eat my 'bologna' sandwich.

[toadsmack7]

Wow, I have learned a lot this morning.

We have enlisted the help of volunteers to place brush piles and other fish attractors into Nebraska waters.  By the way, don't waste your time with Christmas trees, we have cedar trees in most areas of the state that folks want to get rid of, and they last a lot longer than Christmas trees.  If any of you want to ram rod a project like that for Big Alkali, I can put you in touch with the regional fisheries supervisor and you can get something going.

Just do NOT expect the brush piles or any other cover objects to provide any real improvements in recruitment of any species of fish in an 800-acre+ natural lake.  You cannot add enough brush piles to result in a measurable difference, and there is already some natural shallow water cover, bulrushes, that do provide some shallow water habitat for small fish.

I opened my mouth about the brush pile thing, because I believe it is important that folks understand exactly what that does and does not provide.  If you think you are going to throw a few Christmas trees in Big Alkali and that is going to change that fishery, well, BALONEY.  Besides having realistic expectations I believe it is important that fisheries biologists and fishermen understand what the real problems are and do not waste time and money jousting with windmills.

Keep in mind that Big Alkali is called "Big Alkali" for a reason.  Alkalinity of that lake tends to run higher than most of the other sandhill lakes in that area.  That high alkalinity has an affect on water clarity, aquatic vegetation and fish production.  Northern pike and yellow perch can tolerate higher alkalinities, other species, not so much.  Even then, dynamics of the yellow perch and pike populations in Big Alkali are also impacted by fluctuations in alkalinity over time.  Fish populations in all waters are dynamic, always changing, there are always "ups" and "downs", and there is always give and take between predator and prey populations.

Anybody who wants to organize an archery carp tournament for Big Alkali can, anytime.  Organize a whole archery carp series for Big Alkali if you wish, have at it.  If you charge an entry fee we ask that you register your tournament, free registration.  Other than that, have at it.

Recruitment and retention of anglers is a huge issue right now.  In recent years we have directed a lot of time and effort towards that.  We have created and implemented several new programs to recruit and retain anglers in addition to managing waters across the state to provide the best fishing possible.  That in fact is all my job is any more.  Early indications are that some of those efforts are helping.

As a matter of fact, I drive one of the vehicles with graphics on the side of it.  Thought we were supposed to be promoting fishing and the recruitment and retention of anglers?

Our 5 state fish hatcheries produce over 30 million fish and stock over 250 bodies of water in Nebraska every year.  Nearly 1,000,000 fish have been stocked in Big Alkali in the past 25 years, everything from bluegill, black crappie and yellow perch to largemouth bass and northern pike, channel catfish and walleye.  Stocking fish is a common solution to all of our problems.  The only thing is we stock very few fish that are catchable-size when we stock them, and just dumping fish in any body of water is not guaranteed to make the fishing better.  In some cases it could actually make things worse.

I learned this morning that even though crappie show up on their own in eastern Nebraska reservoirs (a far different discussion than Big Alkali, but whatever), we should be stocking those too.  We do, have stocked some fisheries recently with black crappies right away to try to beat the bucket biologists from stocking them for us.  Maybe we are not so "far behind the times".

Someone asked if walleyes were a good way to keep bluegill populations down?  No, THE predator best suited for controlling bluegills and other panfish would be largemouth bass.  Largemouth bass/bluegills are a classic predator/prey relationship.

If you think you have not benefitted from lake renovations and rehabilitations, then I would like to know what bodies of water you are fishing in Nebraska.  We have accomplished A LOT for Nebraska anglers across the state over the years by doing chemical renovations when they are needed.  Yes, that includes sandhill lakes.  In recent years we have ratcheted those efforts up through our Aquatic Habitat Program.  Behind the times?  BALONEY.  Our Aquatic Habitat Program is the first of its kind in the country and fishing all over the state is better because of it.  We have been managing sandhill lakes and Merritt Reservoir for a long, long time and the good fishing you enjoy there now is the result of that.

I guess that makes us even?

I am here all day, if you have any bullfrog questions, or any other questions on fish, fisheries management or fishing in Nebraska, I will have a correct answer or I will know where to find it.

Daryl Bauer
Fisheries Outreach Program Manager
Nebraska Game & Parks Commission
[email protected]
http://neblandvm.outdoornebraska.gov/category/barbs-and-backlashes/

This post reminds me of Bo Pelini.  Part of his job description, whether he likes it or not, is to communicate to the general public (reporters considered a part of the gen. public) in an appropriate and helpful manner (no matter how dumb the question or comment might be).   He did not have that skill when he first took the job, and he still does not have that skill, although I think he is slowly learning, and, consequently, the image of the University suffers.  In our case University = Nebraska Game and Parks.

As a side note, as a resident of Omaha and a relatively avid fisherman, I would say virtually every state surrounding Nebraska has better fisheries.  I would not dare venture to guess the reasons for this because I'm sure there are many, and of those, many are out of anyone's control.

On another side note, I have never been checked for my fishing license in Nebraska (where I fish the most), and I am regularly checked in Iowa  (where I fish 2nd most).  This is a whole 'nother issue that has been discussed on other forums, so I'll leave it at that.  Best way to keep our fisheries in tip top shape is to stop poachers and collect appropriate $$$$$. 

[whitetips]

Pretty much all my time anymore is spent dealing with people, dealing with the public, mostly avid anglers.  I answer questions and concerns from one end of the state to the other on a variety of topics.  One thing I will do, all the time, is shoot straight.  If I hear or see something that simply is not correct, I am going to say something about it.  I deal with rumors, conspiracy, and just plain fantasy all the time, and I am going to do everything I can to nip that in the bud every time.  If you do not think I am being humble when I do that.  Sorry.  I find that is the best way to get the message across.  So many of those things get repeated over and over again until folks believe them.

Oh, and by the way, much of what I was addressing was directly attacking the Nebraska Game & Parks Commission and personnel that work for the Nebraska Game & Parks Commission.  Yep, I am going to stand up and defend our positions and expertise every time.  It also my job to try to explain to folks why we do what we do.  Being humble does not mean rolling over and letting people walk on you.

Yes, I said adding 85 acres of brushpiles to 850 acres of water ain't going to make a measurable difference in terms of fish production.  There will be no measurable difference in the numbers of small fish from adding fish attractors on that scale.  Now, if you dig into the real habitat challenges and can address some of them, then there can be measurable progress.

I am not against brush piles or other cover objects being places in any of our waters; just understand exactly what those things do and do not accomplish.  If you want some cover objects where it will be easier to find and catch fish, great.  But do not think that brush piles in Big Alkali are going to make the production of fish any better.

Daryl B.

[toadsmack7]

Daryl,

In the interest of a sane and rational debate, can you please link to research that suggests your claim:
Yes, I said adding 85 acres of brushpiles to 850 acres of water ain't going to make a measurable difference in terms of fish production.  There will be no measurable difference in the numbers of small fish from adding fish attractors on that scale.
  As in any science, we are trying to falsify things.  Where are the studies that have falsified the hypothesis that a small portion of cover will provide a "measurable" difference in production? What does measurable even mean in this context?  If these studies don't exist, how can you make these kinds of claims?  Everything I have read says that, if anything, artificial cover seems to increase production, but adding it might be controversial based on ratio of cost per lb of structure added versus lbs of fish added.  If people are willing to donate their own artificial cover, then even if it only helps a little, what is the problem?