Author Topic: Lcd Finders (Read 9755 times)

bschlauch · « **on:** Aug 28, 2003, 09:38 AM »

Hello All!

Im looking to purchase a finder this fall that I can use mainly ice fishing, but would also like the versatility to use on the open water.

Since my budget is limited, I have been looking at LCD portable finders versus Vexilar/Marcum flashers.

Have any of you used or currently use LCD finders on the ice and open water and can point me in the right direction or at least mention some pros and cons?

Any imput will help.....Thanks.

Icenutter · « **Reply #1 on:** Aug 28, 2003, 10:06 AM »

The downfall of LCD is that it is not real-time data like the flashers are. The Vexilars also have the conversion to use during the summer months, so you could kill two birds with one stone. The other downfall can be that the LCD liquid screen could freeze on a very cold day. With the flashers you can see the fish suspended and see if they are moving up and down in the water column. An LCD will only show you at what depth the fish are at, not if they are coming up or moving away. Also a Vex will show your jig-depth and movement, where an LCD will not show this. When a mark shows up on the Vex it definatley does not lie. Spend the extra money and you will not be disappointed.

HIMO · « **Reply #2 on:** Aug 28, 2003, 11:22 AM »

words of wisdom from a true icefisherman.

richstick · « **Reply #3 on:** Aug 28, 2003, 11:22 AM »

Here's another vote for a flasher. Don't make the mistake of trying to use an LCD on the ice. I found an old post on this board where a guy was saying how an LCD is a better tool for ice fishing than a flasher. DON'T believe it!!! Flashers operate in true real time, and the three color display offers an outlook on the world that no LCD can match. LCD's don't perform in cold weather . When I'm jigging with my vex, I can tell you exactly what my jig is doing at that exact time in 35 feet of water - no LCD can match the accuracy. Battery life, unit durability, everything, flashers have it all over LCDs. Al Linder has a Vexilar FL-18 flasher mounted on the bow of his boat - does that tell you anything? If you truly want one dual purpose unit, buy the vexilar FL-18. The marcum is good too, but that company's track record is pretty poor - I'd stick with Vexilar just for the amazing history of customer service.

bschlauch · « **Reply #4 on:** Aug 28, 2003, 04:08 PM »

Gentlemen,

Thank you very much for the input, I think you have sold me on the Vex.

Just for the input, what about the LCD finders that claim to have "Fasttrack" Flasher mode built in, such as some of the Lowrance models? Have you heard any news or used one of these?

Thanks!!

cold_feet · « **Reply #5 on:** Aug 28, 2003, 07:43 PM »

My 2 cents
Ive been useing a LCR for years and they work if you know how to use them. In 35 ft of water I can see my jigs as you would on a flasher and you can find suspended as easy as a flasher the only downfall is watching your jigs and fish at the same time as you can with a flasher but if you zoom in to see your jig and put on the alarm then back off on the sesitivity till the alarm doesnt pick up the jig then you will be ready to see any fish that swims through the cone area. As far as freezing up Ive never had this happen yet and Ive been out in some really cold sub zero weather And batteries last all year Ive been useing 2 6volt lattern batteries hooked up in series for at least 15 years now and they never let me down. Although I would love to try the flasher units mine works for me just fine. Maybe a flasher might put a few more perch in the bucket but for now I can live with my LCR. It lets me see the dead areas and if their are fish around you see them also. But the one thing is if the fish aren't bitting no flasher or LCR will get them to bite This is what we've run into this last winter AS I sat next to a guy with a flasher and me with my LCR Neither one of us could get the fish to hit anything and I saw as many fish on my old LCR unit as he did. This is my 2 cents worth
Cold Feet

richstick · « **Reply #6 on:** Aug 28, 2003, 09:08 PM »

Ah - but the flasher does have one HUGE advantage that an astute angler can clean up with. When the fish aren't aggressive, you can use the flasher as an invaluable tool to evaulate WHY. You can vary your jigging style, motions, play with your presentations until you get those fish to bite. I'm starting to get the hang of it a little better, I'm no Dave Genz, but I'm getting the idea. It's pretty amazing, really. I know it sounds crazy, but you can see what your presentation is doing, and see EXACTLY, in real time, how that fish is responding - is he retreating slowly, advancing slowly, doing the 15 foot bomb, etc. You can even tell if he's flaring down on it, etc. It's not just "they are not biting" , "they are biting" A guy who's really good with flasher, who understands and interprets what his flasher is telling him, has a HUGE advantage out there.

bschlauch · « **Reply #7 on:** Aug 29, 2003, 09:09 AM »

Wow...some really great info.....

How does the Vex perform in the open water.....I assume that you have to purchase a different transducer set-up? Can you troll with a Vex? Or do you have to maintain an anchored position in order to get accurate data?

Thanks!

richstick · « **Reply #8 on:** Aug 29, 2003, 11:55 AM »

You would have to get a skimmer type transducer to use the unit on open water. You can move the boat around and still get very accurate readings. No doubt an LCD will be better for trolling than a flasher, due to the fact that you have the "history" of the bottom, fish, etc. that the LCD screen can show you. That's why there really is no one perfect unit for both applications, unfortunately.

Here's a great link I found to talk a little more about what I said in my last post..

http://www.gameandfishmag.com/icefishing/gf_aa026102a/index.html

Fishrmn · « **Reply #9 on:** Aug 29, 2003, 06:54 PM »

H2O-BOY,
My favorite subject. My Lowrance X-85 LCD out performs any flasher on the market. Flashers have 400 watts of peak to peak power. My X-85 has 3,000 watts. The Vex has 5 depth scales. My X-85 has thousands. Any scale that you can think of, as long as there is at least 5 feet of change between the two. 0 to 5, 0 to 6, 0 to 7, 0 to 8, etc. 1 to 6, 1 to 7, 1 to 8 etc. 2 to 7, 2 to 8, 2 to 9, etc. 60 to 65, 60 to 66, etc. The Vex can zoom in on the bottom 6 feet of water. My X-85 can zoom in on ANY 1.25 feet. The Vex can boast more resolution if it is in exactly the maximum depth for the chosen scale, and you don't use the zoom, but how often are you going to be in water that is 20 feet deep, but not where you might be in 22 feet just a few yards away? But all I have to do is set my X-85 to look at 10 to 20 feet or 12 to 22 feet if I'm in 22 feet of water, and now I've got better resolution. And as far as this "real time" thing goes, if you can stop a stop watch at the exact thousandth of a second that I tell you to then you can put the quicker response of a flasher to use. If you can't, then you won't be able to tell the difference.

I've heard of LCDs freezing, but I've used one for 15 years without too much trouble. I keep it in the passenger compartment of my truck on the way to the ice, and I turn on the backlight feature for the first few minutes when I start fishing in sub-zero temps.

I can look away from my LCD for a few seconds and see if a fish swam through the cone while I was looking away. A flasher has no memory of what happened even one ping in the past.

I fish with ice ticks below a kastmaster. At 60 feet I can tell if the perch eye that I sweeten the tick with has been stolen after a missed bite. The same with a salmon egg.

I'm planning on updating to the X-97 (more lines of resolution) or the X-98df (more lines of resolution, and more power) this year. And even though both units have the flash-graph feature, I won't be using it.

Whyizzit that everybody wants the fastest computer, the digital camera with the most megapixels, a touch tone phone instead of an old rotary dial job, and then they want 45 year old technology in a fish finder? Go figger.

Fishrmn

richstick · « **Reply #10 on:** Sep 02, 2003, 09:13 AM »

H2O Boy - Check out Tom Gruenwald's books, "Hooked on Ice Fishing", 1,2, or 3 - they have a very good discussion on the pros and cons of LCD and flasher style sonar units. I just picked up my copy of the second book "Panfish" to read up on a few other things and happened across that info. Excellent info in those books.

Whatever you do, make an informed decision. Bear in mind, however, that every single profesional ice fisherman on the planet - every single one - uses an FL-18, LX-3, or older flasher like a Clearwater Classic, Clearwater Pro, LCF-40, etc. It might be based on older technology, but it's a technology that's been adapted and updated to better suit the task at hand. If you ever get a chance to fish with an LCR and a flasher side by side, you'll see what I mean. The difference is incredible, flashers put LCRs to shame.

Fishrmn · « **Reply #11 on:** Sep 02, 2003, 10:55 AM »

H2O-BOY,
Information is a good thing, but old information isn't as good as new experience. I've had two flashers. They were great. In fact, I only bought an LCD unit because there weren't any flashers available around here when I needed to get a new fishfinder. The first LCD that I bought was the X-40 (1500 watts peak to peak power). It didn't measure up to the LFP-250 that I had been using, so I took it back. I got the X-50 (3,000 watts peak to peak) and have never wanted another flasher since.

A friend of mine bought an FL-8 Pro Pack for $10 two years ago. It had been damaged in shipping, and the trucking firm sells their damaged goods in a bargain cave type of office. (He gets some great deals on some good stuff, and spends good money on some things that would be better left where he found them.) The battery connection was the only thing wrong with the FL-8, and it runs like a champ. They are good units. I've never said that they aren't, but they don't hold a candle to a GOOD LCD unit. I'm not talking about the $129.00 units. I'm not saying that a Bottom Line Fishing Buddy is better than a Vexilar unit. Nor am I saying that all Lowrance units are better than a Vexilar. I'm saying that the high end ($400.00) LCDs have more power, more resolution, better zoom capabilities, and can tell you more about what is going on UNDER THE ICE than any flasher unit. Side by side they both tell you what depth the water is. Side by side they both tell you when there is a fish in the transducer's cone. Side by side they both show the jig. Yes it is in real time guys. You have to get rid of the cartoon mode, where the LCD draws little fishies, and look at the information on the right side of the LCD screen, but it is in real time. So far they are about equal, but start talking about resolution, and zoom, and power, and the LCD wins hands down. My friend who owns the Vex has a cheaper LCD in his boat that he doesn't want to set up for icefishing, so he brings the Vex. But he admits that the X-85 that I have is a better unit.

I've spent lots of money on fishfinders over the years. I consider them necessary pieces of equipment. I've upgraded through 4 models of LCD units. I've owned two flashers, and two paper graphs. I'm going to spend another $400.00 this year on a new fishfinder. If I thought the Vex could do more than an LCD I'd get one. It won't, and I'm not getting a Vex.

Are LCD units more fragile? Maybe. I've never had a problem with one yet. The three units that I have upgraded from are still being used by the people that I sold or gave them to. The X-85 that I have now is going to be my son's, and I'll get the X-98df for me.

If you get a Vex that's alright by me. But if you get a chance to go on the ice with somebody who knows how to use a good, high end LCD, I think you'll get the LCD. That is unless you are the kind of person who still wants to buy an 8 track stereo, thinks that VHS is better than DVD, or wishes that they'd scrap this GPS thing and go back to LORAN.

Fishrmn

HIMO · « **Reply #12 on:** Sep 02, 2003, 01:29 PM »

all I can say is WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY why not use it? fishing today is a far cry from when I went with my grandfather and dad. I try to learn as much as I can. it can't hurt can it.

richstick · « **Reply #13 on:** Sep 02, 2003, 02:35 PM »

It is all personal preference after all. Honestly, I've never, ever heard anyone that thought even a highend graph held a candle to a flasher. Ok, make that one.

bschlauch · « **Reply #14 on:** Sep 02, 2003, 02:38 PM »

Well Men.......

I think Im officially MORE torn between the two types of units then I was when we started! ha ha.

Just kidding, all really great information and I appreciate all of your input. It really puts the two viewpoints into perspective with valid points on each side.

Ive still yet to decide, but Ill keep you posted....

Thanks again....

H20-BOY

Fishrmn · « **Reply #15 on:** Sep 02, 2003, 03:30 PM »

richstick,
You are exactly right, it does all boil down to personal preference. If you like monofillament line better than flourocarbon, or braids, or whatever, then that is what you will choose. Maybe this thread will die off, maybe not. I've got more examples, but I'll save them.

For some reason it just bugs me when people keep saying that LCDs don't show real time. Or that you can't see your jig. Or that you can't tell when a fish is coming towards your offering (thereby telling his "mood"). I can see all of that and more with my LCD.

I'll end like this. ANY time ANY Ice Shanty member is in Utah during the ice season they are welcome to a demonstration. Here's the deal. Show up with $400.00 in cash. It's not a bet. I want you to have $400.00 in your pocket so you can afford to go straight to the sporting goods store and get yourself a new LCD to replace the Vex that you won't be using anymore.

Fishrmn

hollis · « **Reply #16 on:** Sep 03, 2003, 02:29 PM »

I agree,..it seems like every time this subject comes up people repeat that LCD's are not real time or that the screens freeze up or damaged by the cold. This may be true in old or low end LCD's but I use my Zercom LPG 2000 mounted on a plastic tupperware type thing, with the battery inside and transducer on the side and I've used it in very cold weather w/o problems (I don't have the numbers but I remember reading the specs which says its a military grade screen and not subject to freezing in any weather that I would generally be out in) As for real time,..it has a flasher mode on the side of the screen but really, the reg screen shows my jigs moving as fast as my reflexes,which I think are pretty good,..can work anyway,..I can't tell that its NOT real time if it isn't!,..now I do have a Colorpoint which people tell me is a fair flasher,..but I really don't use it much,..I just can't see the advantage,.(unless you count seeing color out on the ice) I understand from what some guys say that they love seeing that red band of their Vexilar comming toward their bait,. "maybe" I haven't gotten used to the flasher,..only have a few hours on it,..but the Zercom LCD seems so much easier to read (To me)

LoneWolf · « **Reply #17 on:** Sep 07, 2003, 01:41 PM »

I agree that it boils down to personal preference. If you are getting an LCD (I had the Zercom ClearWater Classic -liquid crystal flasher-for many years) just learn how to use it. Once you feel comfortable with the unit you will gain more insight and confidence. My personal preference is the flasher(FL-18) - because I have confidence in what I am seeing and how I'm deciphering it. You are able to set up both LCD's and flashers for winter and summer use. I would try to test both first and form an opinion of your own. No matter what you choose it's easier than fishing blind. Good luck! >))))>

Hard_H2O · « **Reply #18 on:** Sep 12, 2003, 10:59 AM »

Did Lowrance ever come out with their icefishing unit that they had in the works?

Fishrmn · « **Reply #19 on:** Sep 12, 2003, 01:28 PM »

Hard H2O,
Not that I've been able to find. Only the new flash graph feature that makes a round viewing, flasher type of display in one mode of the menu on some models. It is smaller in diameter than a typical flasher, and I wouldn't use it, but then I'm still going to get the X-98df and use the graph in normal mode.

They have made a color screen model, the X67 I think, that may attract some attention. There's another thread on that unit. Not enough power for me, thanks. It may have the flash graph too. I'm not sure on that one. They have a couple of color units that are even too expensive for my taste, and I like to spend my hard earned cash on equipment. But $700 for the X-19c and up for other models is too pricey for me.

I hope everyone has a great season out on the ice this year, regardless of the type of fishfinder that you have.

Fishrmn

Hard_H2O · « **Reply #20 on:** Sep 12, 2003, 01:30 PM »

The one I am talking about was an ice-fishing specific flasher.

They must still be in development.

bschlauch · « **Reply #21 on:** Sep 12, 2003, 02:17 PM »

Dont know about any new ice fishing specifc devices by Lowrance yet that I have heard of and Ive been doing a fair amount of research lately.

Have any of you used or have any input on the Lowrance X-58 Dual Frequency?? For the price, it seems like a fairly good unit.

Also, do you folks that have Lowrance LCD finders use the FastTrack "Flasher Mode" ?

Thanks!

H20-BOY

Fishrmn · « **Reply #22 on:** Sep 12, 2003, 06:30 PM »

H20-BOY
At 2400 watts peak to peak and 240 vertical pixel it is probaly a good unit the 160 horizontal pixels isn't as important because they only show what has already happened. 100 would probably be enough most of the time. The best feature that I can see is the price. I just saw it on Mall 24-7 for $209.00. Probably all you could want in a fishfinder.

Fishrmn

Hard_H2O · « **Reply #23 on:** Sep 22, 2003, 09:15 AM »

The latest In-Fisherman had a little article about the new icefishing unit from Lowrance. They had a picture showing it in a soft case. From the looks and specs this might be a good portable unit for the boat or on the ice.

http://www.fishandgame.com/2003articles/32503lowrance.htm

http://www.lowrance.com/company/press/pr_X67C.htm

http://www.thornebros.com/muskie/electronics/lowrance/X67.html

bschlauch · « **Reply #24 on:** Sep 22, 2003, 09:32 AM »

Hard H20-

Thanks for the info. Your right, it looks like a pretty good unit for the price. And has good versability.

Has anyone else had experience or info on this unit?

Hard_H2O · « **Reply #25 on:** Sep 22, 2003, 09:46 AM »

It looks like they also have the same unit with GPS capabilities.

HMMM...

If I had the money and I didn't already have an FL-8...

bschlauch · « **Reply #26 on:** Sep 22, 2003, 10:08 AM »

What...do I hear a slight "change of heart" from a Vex user? I think these new LCDs are going to make a lot of people think. They sure seem like the way to go to me.

Although, once again, it goes back to personal preference.

Hard_H2O · « **Reply #27 on:** Sep 22, 2003, 10:30 AM »

Nope not a change of heart. It would take something drastic to convince me to spend the money when I have a great FL-8 already.

I might be looking for a boat in the near future and it might be nice to have a unit that could do dual duty. Then in the winter I wold have the extra unit for the wife or someone without. I would still use the FL-8 the extra unit would be the LCD.

I will need to see some data and reviews on this unit before I would consider it. It seems like a brand new unit and nobody I have talked to know anything about it.

That LCD has a "flasher" mode that allows it to be used like a Vex. I like the idea of an LCD unit designed for ice fishing rather than a boat unit that is rigged for ice use. It seems like you have to run the LCDs with features turned off or you have to rig up transducers or boxes or you have to be careful with the settings and figure out how to run them on the ice. Every ice fishing flasher I have used, be it a FL-8, Fl-18, Marcum, has literally been plug and play for me.

Having the GPS capability in the unit is intriguing. Might not haul the handheld everytime. A handheld is still quite handy.

It looks like it is a bit more spendy than the Vex.

Hard_H2O · « **Reply #28 on:** Sep 22, 2003, 10:31 AM »

I will agree that it does make one think.

bschlauch · « **Reply #29 on:** Sep 22, 2003, 11:01 AM »

Hard-H20,

I agree...there doesnt seem to be one LCD unit that is specifically designed for ice fishing with the secondary use being open water fishing. I also agree that I need some more information as well on this unit before I run out and spend the money. I dont have any electronics yet, but I know that they are a benefit. I just want to find the one that will work the best for me, that is versatile for both ice fishing and open water, is ready to go out of the box, and doesnt cost an arm and leg. I know the Vex and Marcums are good units, but they seem just a little "pre-historic" in todays technoligical world... so to speak. In the meantime, Ill keep looking around, but I need to get something before the ice gets here and times runnin out!!

News:

Author Topic: Lcd Finders (Read 9755 times)

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