Selling Fish

[LittleFishin]

Just curious how people feel about selling fish in VT... I feel like if pan-fish were not for sale the lake would have better size pan fish; and why cant I sell other fish? pretty stupid if you ask me... 

[Theshad]

Guys selling pan fish doesn't effect the number or size as much as some believe. It would take real commercial fishing to impact a lake like Champlain.

[Light liner]

Areas of the great lakes net for perch thats different.
My opinion is that the white perch are more of a concern in champlain.

[LittleFishin]

I agree. but the State should not allow the sale of fish until they figure it out. IMO.

[Crayfish2]

Someone posted a chart showing the number of pounds of fish, by species, that were sold per year.  If the commercial fisherman were having a significant impact on the populations, the chart should show a downward trend in overall pounds sold.  That was not the case.  Some species were even increasing in pounds sold.

But, with that said, I fish for enjoyment and (hopefully) fresh food for my family.  I only catch what I intend to clean and eat.  The only exception to this is white perch.  When they are running, we try to fill as many buckets as possible.  I will usually keep 1 bucket to clean and eat and sell off the rest.

All in all, I don't think the commercial guys are impacting my fishing at all.  Also, I'm glad the state doesn't allow the selling of other species!  Most species that cannot be sold are also the ones that are stocked by the state.  People selling those fish would be making a profit off from my license / registration  / tax dollars.  Plus, they tend to be more vulnerable to overfishing than most panfish species.

My .02, if that.

[fishingidjit]

SELL,SELL and SELL if you are so inclined.

[Champlain Islander]

I see nothing wrong with it and neither did the biologists last time I talked with them. I'll add I am talking about panfish only not game fish. I remember one State of Vermont sponsored study at Dillenback. They gated off a substantial area and sampled all the fish and bait present. The verdict was more fish than bait and the sampled fish were old and stunted. That tells me the fish were too numerous for the habitat. Fish just like game needs to be managed though harvesting. All the fish sold go to feed someone somewhere.

[troutcrazy]

Panfish are so prolific that you can fish them hard and still have a good fishery for them.  They are an excellent, sustainable food source.  People gotta eat.  The general population should eat more local fish, and less imported fish.

You can't sell other fish because they aren't as prolific.

The state HAS already figured it out. 

Your desire to sportfish for panfish is not more important than some other guy's desire to fish for food production for the people.

[rebel15]

Concerns should be directed at the amount of fish cormorants deplete from our fishing waters.

[LittleFishin]

Concerns should be directed at the amount of fish cormorants deplete from our fishing waters.

Absolutely!
and loons!

[Crayfish2]

Speaking of selling fish, does anyone know what happens to all of the bluegills and pumkinseeds that fisherman sell around here?  I've seen perch in stores / restaurants, but never 'gills or 'seeds.  There must be thousands of pounds sold every year .... where do they all go?

[bootstrap]

good question. i think they go to the citys. how would they be able to enjoy them with out fish sellers.

[Champlain Islander]

I believe many of the large sunnies, gills and crappie go to the big city fish markets whole. I know some ethnicity's value them.  I guess in the mid west there are continuous fish frys on the weekends and when we hear of a fish fry around here it is always perch. Out there fish fry can mean gills and sunnies filleted of course. I think a lot of the cut flat fish end up out there. Fried bluegills and sunnies are delicious and I have seen them in the local fish market for sale.

[Crayfish2]

I agree, Frank ... sunnies and bluegills are one of our favorite fish to eat.  I see there are mail order places on line where you can buy frozen bluegill fillets.  One place wanted $95 for 5lbs, and they were sold out!

[Light liner]

They really are excellent eating fish. Late summer theres alot of guys fishing for them.
Im one of them, last year it .85 per pound.

[Lord_of_the_Perch]

I agree, Frank ... sunnies and bluegills are one of our favorite fish to eat.  I see there are mail order places on line where you can buy frozen bluegill fillets.  One place wanted $95 for 5lbs, and they were sold out!

I'm doing it all wrong!!!!

[lowaccord66]

They really are excellent eating fish. Late summer theres alot of guys fishing for them.
Im one of them, last year it .85 per pound.

I've seen the guys out there hammering them.  They do eat well.  Not a bad way to spend an afternoon either.

[thefishingweatherman]

Just curious how people feel about selling fish in VT... I feel like if pan-fish were not for sale the lake would have better size pan fish; and why cant I sell other fish? pretty stupid if you ask me... 

The relationship between fish size and numbers of fish isn't as straightforward as you may think. You could argue that if there was very heavy fishing pressure on just very large fish that the average size of those fish in a given body of water would decrease. That might be true of small bodies of water. However, on a lake like Champlain, taking big panfish, even by the thousands of pounds, may have the opposite effect. The reason? Even thousands of pounds is a small dent in the overall population, and the remaining fish now have more food available to them to grow big, more quickly. You can have the same biomass, either in millions of tiny, stunted fish, or less numerous, but larger fish. As long as we're talking about Lake Champlain, I don't think the current levels of "commercial" (basically hobby) fishing make much of a dent in the overall population. If anything, it probably increases the size of panfish, and the speed with which they grow.

If you're having trouble landing good sized panfish, you may want to explore other areas and techniques. They are definitely out there. Folks here on the forum can point you in the right direction.

[Champlain Islander]

The relationship between fish size and numbers of fish isn't as straightforward as you may think. You could argue that if there was very heavy fishing pressure on just very large fish that the average size of those fish in a given body of water would decrease. That might be true of small bodies of water. However, on a lake like Champlain, taking big panfish, even by the thousands of pounds, may have the opposite effect. The reason? Even thousands of pounds is a small dent in the overall population, and the remaining fish now have more food available to them to grow big, more quickly. You can have the same biomass, either in millions of tiny, stunted fish, or less numerous, but larger fish. As long as we're talking about Lake Champlain, I don't think the current levels of "commercial" (basically hobby) fishing make much of a dent in the overall population. If anything, it probably increases the size of panfish, and the speed with which they grow.

If you're having trouble landing good sized panfish, you may want to explore other areas and techniques. They are definitely out there. Folks here on the forum can point you in the right direction.

I would say you nailed it. Well stated and 100% accurate from my opinion. Big panfish are out there. Your definition of commercial fishing as basically hobby fishing puts it all into perspective. For most commercial guys the money they get probably covers gas and tackle/ bait costs at best. The only real issue is the social aspect which is why we were saddled with the Champlain perch limits under the dark days of the Dean administration.

[Champlain Islander]

I'm doing it all wrong!!!!

Hi Kenny hows it going? Fun to catch but filleting them is not a labor of love unless you are the Rays boys who can go through a cooler of them in an hour or less. I love to watch them cleaning fish. Something to see.

[jbritch]

Here's the latest graph again.  The trend for yellow perch is declining.

A quarter million pounds of this species is not just hobby fishing; it's commercial alright.  Seems a lot of readers have forgotten the terrible abuse I took from our fish mongers for asking these questions about the business and the Canadian processor.

If someone was harvesting an equal amount of trees from our public lands without due scrutiny or recompense there would be a terrible outcry.  Fish are out of sight; trees are in your face.  Do fish mongers pay a sales tax on the fish they buy?  The state has a hard enough time just getting some of them to report their numbers on time, remember?

Don't forget; these are just yellow perch numbers.  Other species do seem to be increasing in their harvest numbers.  Soon the white perch harvest will exceed the yellow.  That may be a good thing; I never found a worm in a white perch.  Do they exist?

[LittleFishin]

The relationship between fish size and numbers of fish isn't as straightforward as you may think. You could argue that if there was very heavy fishing pressure on just very large fish that the average size of those fish in a given body of water would decrease. That might be true of small bodies of water. However, on a lake like Champlain, taking big panfish, even by the thousands of pounds, may have the opposite effect. The reason? Even thousands of pounds is a small dent in the overall population, and the remaining fish now have more food available to them to grow big, more quickly. You can have the same biomass, either in millions of tiny, stunted fish, or less numerous, but larger fish. As long as we're talking about Lake Champlain, I don't think the current levels of "commercial" (basically hobby) fishing make much of a dent in the overall population. If anything, it probably increases the size of panfish, and the speed with which they grow.

If you're having trouble landing good sized panfish, you may want to explore other areas and techniques. They are definitely out there. Folks here on the forum can point you in the right direction.

I would say you nailed it. Well stated and 100% accurate from my opinion. Big panfish are out there. Your definition of commercial fishing as basically hobby fishing puts it all into perspective. For most commercial guys the money they get probably covers gas and tackle/ bait costs at best. The only real issue is the social aspect which is why we were saddled with the Champlain perch limits under the dark days of the Dean administration.

Thank you both for the responses. I do go to Champlain because the fishing is great. Many slow days of small fish have been bested by nice sized table fare.  I like seeing how others are viewing things so I can keep myself exploring all the differences in opinion/facts. You both seem very knowledge worthy so if either of you find any cool studies on harvest amounts correlating to size/ age of fish please let me know. tight lines guys!

[Champlain Islander]

JBritch I would say your trend line is more indicative of less people commercial fishing rather than anything else. On the northern end of the lake I see far less people fishing the last few years. There might be several reasons but the quality or quantity of the fish isn't one of them at least from the way I see it. I'll add this...Lake Champlain is 110 miles long and has a vast biomass of fish of all species. 250,000 pounds of perch harvested in a year is an infinitesimal amount as compared to the carrying capacity. 

[mudchuck]

Don't forget some years we've had bad weather, both ice fishing and open water, remember Irene?
I'm sure some of that should factor into overall harvest numbers since people are less apt to fish when weather isn't cooperating like really deep snow or the lake was flooded and hard for shore access.

[Lord_of_the_Perch]

Hi Kenny hows it going? Fun to catch but filleting them is not a labor of love unless you are the Rays boys who can go through a cooler of them in an hour or less. I love to watch them cleaning fish. Something to see.

I'm doing good Frank. How about yourself? Conditions this year have been less than great; but am still plugging away at my favorite winter hobby! I saw Dick a couple weeks ago... just missed Mickey. You are right...those guys from Ray's are fast! Hope to see you in the near future.
Be safe!

[Champlain Islander]

Yeah Dick and Mickey are out all the time fishing flat fish. I am doing well and have been focusing mainly on perch until March starts then it is all gills, seeds and crappie. Love that fishing and is my favorite for sure.

[Champlain Islander]

Don't forget some years we've had bad weather, both ice fishing and open water, remember Irene?
I'm sure some of that should factor into overall harvest numbers since people are less apt to fish when weather isn't cooperating like really deep snow or the lake was flooded and hard for shore access.

A great point to make. We have been saddled with some very windy weather lately and add in cold like today and it keeps people off the ice. 250,000 pounds of fish sounds like a lot but just for grins I tried to figure out what that number really means. Many people like myself ice fish approximately 80 days each season. That number can change from year to year depending on weather, ice depth and deep snow which can change the whole dynamic. In addition some years ice in is mid December and lasts until mid April in places while other years it starts later and ends around the first week in march. I know quite a few very good fishermen some of which sell their fish. Many of these guys and gals have good and bad days but overall an average catch might be filling a 7 gallon pail which depending on how they are packed can be between 40 and 50 pounds of fish. Doing the math a person catching 45 pounds a day times 80 days of fishing comes up to 3600 pounds of fish. Divide that total harvest of 250K by the amount one person gets gives you close to 70 people selling the fish. 70 people fishing 110 miles of Champlain in addition to many other bodies of water within the state that have different catch limits means that the overall impact of that hobby is insignificant. Everyone has an opinion on this subject which is normal. I respect both the people who sell and the ones that don't like it. I would say the fact that we are all fishermen is the most important. Divisiveness between us isn't a good thing and is something that fuels the people who don't want anyone harvesting either fish or game.

[thefishingweatherman]

Here's the latest graph again.  The trend for yellow perch is declining.

A quarter million pounds of this species is not just hobby fishing; it's commercial alright.  Seems a lot of readers have forgotten the terrible abuse I took from our fish mongers for asking these questions about the business and the Canadian processor.

If someone was harvesting an equal amount of trees from our public lands without due scrutiny or recompense there would be a terrible outcry.  Fish are out of sight; trees are in your face.  Do fish mongers pay a sales tax on the fish they buy?  The state has a hard enough time just getting some of them to report their numbers on time, remember?

Don't forget; these are just yellow perch numbers.  Other species do seem to be increasing in their harvest numbers.  Soon the white perch harvest will exceed the yellow.  That may be a good thing; I never found a worm in a white perch.  Do they exist?

Where did you get the graph? A source would be nice. But let's say it's proven to be accurate. There could be many factors accounting for why numbers are declining. Like Champlain Islander said, it may be due to less people fishing over the years alone. However, let's say commercial fishing pressure is increasing... Still doesn't prove that that is the cause of the decline. It may simply be from other fish competing with them for food. The white perch comes to mind. If you have a boom in white perch numbers when they invade, you have to assume the biomass of other fish will decrease, where they compete for food. Could also be issues relating to lake levels, water pollution, water temperatures, lake trout predation (remember they are bouncing back), etc.

Only portions of the lake are targeted in winter for commercial fishing, owing to the lake not freezing completely each year, and folks not wanting to walk 5 miles to the middle of the lake to fish perch, even when it DOES freeze. As such, there's a big reserve of perch out there, even with the tons hauled out of the lake.

[Champlain Islander]

I am 70 years old, am a lake shore property owner and have been fishing the lake and connecting rivers all my life. I have been around many commercial fishermen and buyers during a lot of that time. I can safely say there are less people today selling their catch than even 10 years ago. I have a friend who is dead set against commercial fishing because he says the fishing is terrible now and it is because all the fish are being caught and sold. I don't think the fishing is terrible for those who know how to catch them. In his case I write his opinion off to that green eyed monster...

[thefishingweatherman]

I am 70 years old, am a lake shore property owner and have been fishing the lake and connecting rivers all my life. I have been around many commercial fishermen and buyers during a lot of that time. I can safely say there are less people today selling their catch than even 10 years ago. I have a friend who is dead set against commercial fishing because he says the fishing is terrible now and it is because all the fish are being caught and sold. I don't think the fishing is terrible for those who know how to catch them. In his case I write his opinion off to that green eyed monster...

Well said. A quick look at the state master angler page entries shows there are still plenty of hogs to be had.