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Author Topic: Livescopes- Garmin  (Read 2652 times)

Offline Jake1

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Livescopes- Garmin
« on: Feb 22, 2022, 07:56 AM »
I thought my Vexilar FL-18 was a game changer and I was cheating 15yrs ago. I can mark fish but I don't know how many or what, then I get a camera to look down and watch the perch hit, also a game changer. Watched guys using livescopes this past week and was amazed at the accuracy and clarity. Good for you if can afford that I am jealous, but I am pretty sure I could clean up a small lake or pond in no time using this unit. I totally have mixed feelings as there is enough pressure on these smaller local lakes but to watch guys just crushing crappy 3x in the past week from the same area, all big spawners,  I can see these smaller lakes/ponds getting cleaned out. What happens when these units become affordable to the average fisherman?? Scary Technology

Offline Arkangel

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #1 on: Feb 22, 2022, 11:29 AM »
Jake...Frogger...compl etely agree.

I did manage to pick up an Aqua-Vu 715...which offers fairly good clarity but not as good as some others.

I've only used mine a half dozen times...and have never really crushed it - but I will say this.

Back in the day, I'd drop a line down the hole and fish all day and...nothing.  Often leaving the lake or pond thinking "there's nothing in here".

To my shock - nearly every time I drop a line down now and I'm using the Aqua-Vu - almost immediately there are 1 - 2 - 3 fish surrounding my bait and just hanging there suspended and "sniffing" the bait.  If nothing else, it's live entertainment...!

I'll also add that we have watched fish numerous times (actually - more often than not) come up to the bait...act non-interested...swim about...come back again and flair their gills and suck in the bait then spit it back out.  And it never translated to a "hit" on my jigging rods.  I've even seen fish grab a minnow by it's tail and that's it.  Like they were sipping from a straw.

So - this fisherman enjoys the entertainment value and watching the fish in their habitat and how they do (or don't) strike or take the bait.

...and that's just my 2 cents.

~ArkAngel

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it's not the fish they are after ~ Henry David Thoreau

Offline Db1

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #2 on: Feb 22, 2022, 12:39 PM »
I also agree jake and frogger especially with crappie without those big spawners it hurt i fish crappie all year with granddaughters just because theres 3 people in the boat doesn't mean that you all have to get limits 25 is definitely enough grub for are family plus i just love watching the kids catching them at least there out in the outdoors common sense has to be apart of the outdoors just my 2cents

Offline fastribs85

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #3 on: Feb 22, 2022, 12:56 PM »
I can only speak for myself as I've had a livescope setup for 3 years now and yes it's a game changer. With that said it only helps locate the fish you still have to catch them and I've had times where I found fish just wouldn't eat. Also have spent hours chasing schools of crappie around a lake but they were so skittish you couldn't stay with them. So it's not like that one unit is the root of the problem in my opinion. Personally I only keep what I need for a meal or two and some days don't keep anything because I don't need it want to take any home I just want to be out fishing. If more people would just enjoy rather then being concerned about taking bucket loads of fish home there would need no need for concern. Just my thoughts

Offline kpd145

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #4 on: Feb 22, 2022, 01:01 PM »
Someone using livescope can absolutely negatively impact numbers on any body of water if given the time and opportunity.

IMO and I hope this is not taken wrong. Most people who can afford a 2500 dollar Livescope aren't the same people taking buckets of fish.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming, "Wow! What a RIDE!"--Hunter S. Thompson

Offline Arkangel

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #5 on: Feb 22, 2022, 01:24 PM »
...I think we're all in agreement here...

I do catch and release much more than I do catch and keep.  The acquisition of my Aqua-Vu has not changed that.

And it's true - that some fish for sustenance and keep everything they catch...while others just want to keep a meal or two and release the rest.

You would just think that people would be responsible about fishing in a small lake or pond and be aware that taking too many fish would be impactful on the population...but there I go using logic again  ;D ::)

...that was my 2 (more) cents...I'm out  ;)
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it's not the fish they are after ~ Henry David Thoreau

Offline Jake1

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #6 on: Feb 22, 2022, 02:57 PM »
I do agree you still have to catch them, with the vex I can see there may or may not be any fish , maybe I get on them if not punch holes till I do find some, maybe its just a bad day who knows. with this particular group we watched could see 20-30 ft away, yup there they are.. punch a hole directly over them catch and move on. like I said I am jealous to a point, but these units increase the odds for sure, the accuracy was unreal to watch. they had 2 units and made quick work of an acre area. came back two more times in past 3 days to clean up.  Happen to be working from home and recognize them. thanks for the input

Offline stripernut

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #7 on: Feb 22, 2022, 03:27 PM »
You will always have greedy people., but in the end, using a Livescope is like sight fishing on a flat, seeing the fish, casting to the fish, does not mean you catch the fish. I will agree some fish will/are more vulnerable to greedy a$$s and crappy are a good example. I am sure this is the same conversation for each big new thing...

Here is an earlier post I made on this subject;
So, what I am not understanding is if you are fishing a flat in open water and you can see the fish you are casting too, is that cheating, less skilled, or less fun? Because the new electronics are just letting you see where to "cast", just like fishing a sand flat for stripers or a rising trout in a stream, if that is cheating, then I am a cheater... If fishing blind makes it more fun, why don't anglers do it blindfolded? Yes I can fish blind and do well, but I don't need to, so I don't. If you don't want to look at a screen, I can understand that, but the good news is you don't have to. Each time a new tech comes along, someone will say it is cheating or not fair, but fishing is about having fun (maybe with some fillets included) and each of us finds a different part of fishing to be the most fun. For some, it is the social aspect, or the getting away from others, for me it is that moment of the bite, that tug with its endless possibility. Electronics help in saving time and can make it even more fun (as said, tough to beat a hot laker bite on a good sounder for excitement). If the tech starts catching fish for you, then I will be right beside you, saying that not really fishing... Until then it is still plenty sporting...

This reminds me of how often you hear people say "Kids Today" and then go on about the demise of Western Civilization, because of those very kids... You know who else spent a lot of time thinking that the "kids Today" will be the end of mankind; Socrates, that Greek philosopher that was born in 470 BC, and yet we are still here...

Offline Subway4X4

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #8 on: Feb 23, 2022, 10:58 AM »
I’ve had Livescope for 3 years now. I still can’t catch fish.

My buddies don’t have Livescope, and they always out fish me. 
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Offline Pequod1

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #9 on: Feb 23, 2022, 11:42 AM »
$3000 is a lot of money for a 2-2 1/2 month ice season unless you intend to use it in a boat.   I have seen it not work well out of boats fishing Erie. I imagine if I was a lot younger and richer, I might  try it though. I do agree, you can do a number on the fish population of a small lake with it.

Offline rdhammah

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #10 on: Feb 23, 2022, 12:44 PM »
I’ve had Livescope for 3 years now. I still can’t catch fish.

My buddies don’t have Livescope, and they always out fish me.
I'll take that albatross off your hands for $100. LOL

Offline Subway4X4

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #11 on: Feb 23, 2022, 01:00 PM »
I'll take that albatross off your hands for $100. LOL

That’s like taking away a kids video game console.  What else am I gonna do for entertainment on the lake?
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Offline Subway4X4

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #12 on: Feb 23, 2022, 01:07 PM »
$3000 is a lot of money for a 2-2 1/2 month ice season unless you intend to use it in a boat.   I have seen it not work well out of boats fishing Erie. I imagine if I was a lot younger and richer, I might  try it though. I do agree, you can do a number on the fish population of a small lake with it.
Agree. Spring, Summer and Fall my Livescope is on my fishing kayak. Then in Winter it transforms into a Winter tool. 



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Offline delawareriver

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #13 on: Feb 23, 2022, 01:13 PM »
I know there's talks in the southern states with world famous crappie fisheries about changing limits because of how many guys are using live sonar technology now days. Even on big lakes I can see it negatively effecting the population over time. More guys having more consistent and bigger success has to effect the fishery that made their regulations years ago

Offline lowaccord66

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #14 on: Feb 23, 2022, 04:42 PM »
Someone using livescope can absolutely negatively impact numbers on any body of water if given the time and opportunity.

IMO and I hope this is not taken wrong. Most people who can afford a 2500 dollar Livescope aren't the same people taking buckets of fish.

I take a bucket or two.

Offline stripernut

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #15 on: Feb 25, 2022, 06:35 AM »
Here is the first study I have seen addressing Livescope catch rates;

ANGLER SURVEY STUDY SHOWS NO IMPACT FROM LIVE SONAR
HOME  STATES  ANGLER SURVEY STUDY SHOWS NO IMPACT FROM LIVE SONAR
STATES
FEBRUARY 24, 20220
Angler Survey Study Shows No Impact From Live Sonar
CAMDEN — Tackle-shop talk may have some anglers convinced that the recent advancements in live-imaging sonar will be the end of fishing as we know it. Research conducted by the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission may set those anglers’ minds at ease.

As technology and knowledge about wild animals and fish increase, so does the level of apprehension about whether a new tool is too efficient and could impact the resource. Some anglers have called for bans on Alabama rigs for bass fishing and spider rigging for crappie fishing. Toward the beginning of bass-fishing tournament culture’s boom, many anglers even supported the banning of the ubiquitous soft-plastic worm and now archaic flasher-style sonar units, because they were believed to give too much advantage to the angler.

Andy Yung, AGFC fisheries biologist in Hot Springs, recently shared the results of a study conducted last year on live sonar and crappie anglers, and so far there’s little evidence to support any panic on the part of anglers or resource managers.

The Crappie Crowd
“Crappie are the second most popular species targeted by resident anglers,” Yung said. “About 24 percent of resident anglers list them as their number one species. And, crappie anglers tend to be more harvest-oriented than anglers targeting black bass or trout, so if a harvest-oriented impact were to be seen it would likely show up with crappie first.”

Yung says another factor for the study was the popularity of live-imaging sonar with crappie anglers and their ability to find crappie schooled up offshore with the units.

“As a biologist and crappie angler myself, I’ve heard plenty of discussions about live sonar, some of them pretty heated,” Yung said. “As an agency, we needed to look at this in the real world and how the application of this technology may or may not impact the fishery.”

AGFC biologists conduct creel surveys and angler interviews on a regular basis throughout the state, so the best method to gather data for Yung’s study was to take advantage of the work already being conducted and add a series of questions to the interviews concerning the new technology.

Doubled-up Crappie Catch
Nearly 700 boats with well over 1,000 anglers were interviewed. More than one-third of the anglers had livescope available on their boat, proving the popularity of the technology.

“We also asked the anglers if we could count and measure their catch,” Yung said. “We wanted to find out if anglers using live-imaging sonar caught more fish, caught bigger fish, and ultimately brought more fish home to eat.”

When it comes to catching fish, the anglers that had live-imaging sonar definitely seemed to have the upper hand over those without. During the study, live-imaging anglers averaged 2.4 crappie per angler per hour of fishing effort. Those who did not have the new breed of sonar caught 1.1 crappie per angler per hour.

Cherry-picking
Some anglers are concerned that those who have live-imaging sonar are able to pick and choose targets and select larger fish, leaving fewer large fish for other anglers to catch.Those fears can be laid to rest, at least when it comes to harvest.

“When we looked at the size of fish anglers kept, the sizes of the fish kept were nearly the same,” Yung said. “Actually, the anglers not using live-imaging sonar had fish that were slightly heavier, but the difference was within an ounce or two so it was statistically irrelevant.”

Yung also says that in many fish species, the largest, oldest fish are usually less productive than some of the younger year-classes of fish, so, from a biological point of view, removal of those larger fish may not impact the fishery.

“By the time a crappie reaches the 2-pound mark, it has already spawned multiple times and contributed to the population, and it’s probably not contributing as much as some of the 10-inch fish in that system,” Yung said. “At that age, it may not make it to the next spawn anyway.”

Catch and Keep
Even though catch rates doubled for anglers who had live-scope, that didn’t equate to more fish being removed from the system. Anglers with live-imaging sonar during the survey kept about 42 percent of the fish they caught, while other anglers harvested 64 percent of their catch.

“The difference in actual number of fish taken home between the two groups of anglers only averaged 3 or so fish per trip,” Yung said. “The non-live-sonar anglers did keep a higher percentage of their catch, but they were catching them at half the rate, so the difference really wasn’t something that would cause concern on a broad scale.”

Yung said more parties with live-imaging sonar did turn in limits, but the difference was pretty small when real numbers were compared. In fact, the number of limits seen was actually much lower than some anglers may expect.

“Of the 700 parties we interviewed, we saw a total of 16 limits,” Yung said. “That’s about 2.5 percent of all the anglers we interviewed. And seven of those 16 limits came from the same lake, one that’s well-known for crappie angling. A couple of those limits also came from the same angler, a crappie guide who probably would be bringing home fish with or without live-imaging sonar.”

Yung also points out that crappie are a short-lived species in Arkansas, and harvest-oriented angling has not shown to be detrimental to long-term crappie populations.

In Arkansas, the annual mortality rate on crappie is pretty high anyway. About 65 percent of crappie die each year and are being replaced with the young of the year.

“The turnover in crappie is pretty fast here, so if higher harvest were to begin to play a factor, the population could rebound very quickly with a regulation adjustment. But for now, there’s no indication of that happening on a statewide basis.”

Watch Yung’s presentation of this study on the AGFC’s Wild Science webinar series, found at agfc.com.

Offline stripernut

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #16 on: Feb 25, 2022, 09:36 AM »
Not everything should be shortened to the length of a tweet...

Offline lowaccord66

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #17 on: Feb 25, 2022, 02:14 PM »
Not everything should be shortened to the length of a tweet...

Great post Allan. 

Offline Uppervalley Kid

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #18 on: Feb 25, 2022, 02:55 PM »
I keep BC from a local pond and have not seen a decline in the 3 years I have been fishing it. That said I only ever harvest 8 or so at a time, as this is what my family will eat for a dinner. I am also only able to get out there a limited number of times a year. I usually catch and keep my 8 and let the dinks and big breeders go. Most folks bass fish on this pond and while it is full of crappie, I have never seen anyone else take a fish home. Not sure if this aligns with best practices for crappie management but I am all ears.





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Offline lowaccord66

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #19 on: Feb 28, 2022, 05:35 PM »
Thank you Livescope:




Offline theTUGistheDRUG

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #20 on: Mar 14, 2022, 07:46 PM »
I am seriously debating making the upgrade to maximize my time and become a more efficient angler. I release 99% of my fish ice fishing so I won’t be a contributing factor. I fill my freezer in the salt. Walleye are about the only species I will keep and only less than 23” or so unless mortally wounded.

Offline theTUGistheDRUG

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #21 on: Mar 23, 2022, 02:59 PM »
Anyone getting the LVS34?  Curious if they enhanced the usability for down image in deeper water.  Online vids have not said anything about this.  I did find a vid of a dude running his LVS32 unit in tandem with a GT10 iceducer in 92' though.  Had no idea that was an option, albeit pricey.... 

I need a final push here!  UHD 93SV units are on sale!  ;D

Offline lowaccord66

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #22 on: Mar 23, 2022, 05:23 PM »
Honestly I still use my ps22 at times in deep water along with the lvs32.  I cant imagine the 34 being more of a game changer although the uhd unit is the way to be.

Offline theTUGistheDRUG

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #23 on: Mar 23, 2022, 05:29 PM »
I am gathering that it’s just a slightly more refined LVS32. I am just leaning towards the 34 since I am likely putting together a unit from scratch. I very briefly used bothPS22 and LVS32 at Chaumont this year and it was night and day the LVS32. Didn’t mess with settings on the PS22 unit though. Saw a pike fly in some some bait. It was too damn cool.

Offline lowaccord66

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Re: Livescopes- Garmin
« Reply #24 on: Mar 24, 2022, 06:21 AM »
Regardless of the choice I think we all suffer from buying a version and garmin then quickly improves it. 

 



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