Camping on the ice.

[Drifter_016]

ave, Did the images originally on that post get lost in the Photobucket mess?

Yup, you can thank PB for that Steve.

You can see them all here though:

[beachwoods 16]

I have a small shanty and have overnighted till about 15 degrees. You can buy air activated body warmers (like the hand warmers only bigger) You can get a ten pack at walmart for 6 bucks or so. I put one just above the elastic on the legs my thermals. And a couple on my body.  If the shelter is small, A lantern turned way down will raise the temp of the shelter without burning tons of o2. Drinking water is  important.   

[fatty crusher]

Thanks for the reply and the map!  Yes the space is nice for fishing, cooking, eating, changing, etc.  I should probably add the food coolers and clothing bags to the floor plan map, though the bags usually sit on the Action Packers.  If we emulated your setup, we could sleep four, but I think it would be too crowded when not sleeping.

What are your totes?  We really like and use Rubbermaid Action Packers, but some of our stay-dry stuff is not in them--sometimes we bag that stuff, and after our slush fun this year we'll probably do more of that.

Our cots are Disc-O-Bed size L, with extensions and foot pads.

(Image removed from quote.)

http://www.discobed.com/cots/disc-o-bed-l-with-organizers/

Size L is more narrow at 28" but we find that to be plenty of sleeping room.

To be clear, these are unquestionably inconvenient to set up and take down.  But once assembled, they are totally solid.  We have never had any inkling of instability at all.  I think the foot pads make a big difference there.  We are totally sold on the cots despite the inconvenient set up and take down.

Sorry to be a pain--this is the Portable Buddy:

(Image removed from quote.)

And this is the Little Buddy:

(Image removed from quote.)

(see https://www.mrheater.com/product/heaters/buddy-series.html)

Are you using two Portable Buddy or two Little Buddy heaters?  I am trying to compare BTU/output.  Two Portables on high = one Big on high.

I hope your Big Buddy is the older model with the fan.  I really like the fan.

We have never done any overnight sleeping with the heater running, so far.

I totally agree.  And I love sleeping comfortably in the cold.

Have you ever run into the water dripping problem in your FF9416i on a snowy day, like we did this time?

Yes we had the portable buddies. Thank you for the clarity. As for dripping we didn't have any. I dont know if it was just to cold and we had a frozen shell or what.  I dont really see the pop ups as being water proof, it is more of a cloth material. I'm not sure why. I know when camping in a tent if you touch the ceiling and it is really moist, the water will penetrate the material and keep on dripping.

[BeenPerchin315]

Yes we had the portable buddies. Thank you for the clarity. As for dripping we didn't have any. I dont know if it was just to cold and we had a frozen shell or what.  I dont really see the pop ups as being water proof, it is more of a cloth material. I'm not sure why. I know when camping in a tent if you touch the ceiling and it is really moist, the water will penetrate the material and keep on dripping.

When I used to camp on ice often I took a tarp out to go over all but the door on my hub and that took away the moisture/frost on everything but the door area

[ActiveTrapChecker]

When I used to camp on ice often I took a tarp out to go over all but the door on my hub and that took away the moisture/frost on everything but the door area

Was your hub insulated? Wondering if that would make a difference

[Gunflint]

Was your hub insulated? Wondering if that would make a difference

Insulated makes a big difference, but also how much wind and the actual temps make a difference as well.

For real winter camping in harsh conditions, the best tent is unwaxed canvas. The condensation actually hits the wall/roof and is wicked to the outside where it evaporates or sublimates. They don't drip as long as you keep them warm with a stove.

[jethro]

Was your hub insulated? Wondering if that would make a difference

Both my Clam hub and my flip are that real heavy, super insulated fabric and they don't drip much at all.

[FG Steve]

Both my Clam hub and my flip are that real heavy, super insulated fabric and they don't drip much at all.

My uninsulated QF6 will get frozen condensation inside, then that condensation will melt and drip inside if you warm up the hut.

My insulated FF9416i normally does not drip at all, but on the recent trip, around mid-day, we had a combination of warm tent, steady snowfall, lots of propane heat hours inside, and somewhat warm outside temps (20s) that teamed up to soak the insulated fabric clear through.  Then, the water flowed downhill to drip from the pockets that hold the rod ends, in the ceiling.  There was also a little dripping from the seam, but that was very minor in comparison.

I'll figure out how to deal with these problems for now, rather than graduate to a canvas wall tent for one-night trips.  However, wall tent or alaknak, and wood stove, seem to be the best for extended trips, a la Drifter.

[Philip]

My uninsulated QF6 will get frozen condensation inside, then that condensation will melt and drip inside if you warm up the hut.

My insulated FF9416i normally does not drip at all, but on the recent trip, around mid-day, we had a combination of warm tent, steady snowfall, lots of propane heat hours inside, and somewhat warm outside temps (20s) that teamed up to soak the insulated fabric clear through.  Then, the water flowed downhill to drip from the pockets that hold the rod ends, in the ceiling.  There was also a little dripping from the seam, but that was very minor in comparison.

I'll figure out how to deal with these problems for now, rather than graduate to a canvas wall tent for one-night trips.  However, wall tent or alkanak, and wood stove, seem to be the best for extended trips, a la Drifter.

Do you find that youre 9416 frosts up on the inside? When the temp gets around 10 or below lots of the shanty will frost over on the inside walls. They dont drip but they do get frosty, starting on the insulation stitching

[jethro]

My uninsulated QF6 will get frozen condensation inside, then that condensation will melt and drip inside if you warm up the hut.

My insulated FF9416i normally does not drip at all, but on the recent trip, around mid-day, we had a combination of warm tent, steady snowfall, lots of propane heat hours inside, and somewhat warm outside temps (20s) that teamed up to soak the insulated fabric clear through.  Then, the water flowed downhill to drip from the pockets that hold the rod ends, in the ceiling.  There was also a little dripping from the seam, but that was very minor in comparison.

I'll figure out how to deal with these problems for now, rather than graduate to a canvas wall tent for one-night trips.  However, wall tent or alkanak, and wood stove, seem to be the best for extended trips, a la Drifter.

Oh yeah, I can see that being an issue in the perfect combination of events. So far I am super impressed by the way the Clam insulates but I know there will be that time!

Steve, any suggestions on a boot dryer or method to dry boots? It's probably my biggest issue. I sweat like crazy, I can't seem to do anything about my feet getting wet. They are NEVER cold, so it's just dealing with putting on damp boots in the morning, then once I take 10 steps they are at sweat level again... At home I use a boot dryer, it's like my favorite thing. Even my work shoes go on it when I come home.

I take out my boot liners and put them in the attic mesh storage to hopefully dry every night but the boots themselves are damp.

[Nosaj]

Oh yeah, I can see that being an issue in the perfect combination of events. So far I am super impressed by the way the Clam insulates but I know there will be that time!

Steve, any suggestions on a boot dryer or method to dry boots? It's probably my biggest issue. I sweat like crazy, I can't seem to do anything about my feet getting wet. They are NEVER cold, so it's just dealing with putting on damp boots in the morning, then once I take 10 steps they are at sweat level again... At home I use a boot dryer, it's like my favorite thing. Even my work shoes go on it when I come home.

I take out my boot liners and put them in the attic mesh storage to hopefully dry every night but the boots themselves are damp.

A little off topic from boot dryers but, my feet sweat a lot and the best thing I have found is Baffin Titans.  I will wear them all day and the liners stay dry on the inside however if you pull them out or put you hand between the rubber boot and the out side surface of the liner it will be soaking wet.  The liner does an incredible job wicking the moisture away from your feet.  The only down side is that they are little like wearing a slipper ice fishing in that they do not have a lot of support.   

[Akhardwater]

To stop the drips in the noninsulated and insulated shacks you need to do the tarp over the top of the shack.  All my shacks have tarps prefastened to the shack for easy setup in the field.  Make sure not to cover vents and windows to allow for ventilation.  The tarp is also handy to have already on top the shack for summer camping as well.  For you guys with wet feet I wear a wicking booty called a Bama sock over my socks.  It wicks the moisture away from your foot and holds it in the Bama sock so it keeps your socks and boots dry.  The Bama sock dries really fast once you take them off, just don’t wash them because it degrades the wicking capability of the sock.  For 20 bucks a pair I just buy new ones every year.  When it comes to camping in the pop ups I’ve pretty much seen and done everything so if you guys have any questions at all please feel free to ask and I will try to answer them as best I can.

[jethro]

A little off topic from boot dryers but, my feet sweat a lot and the best thing I have found is Baffin Titans.  I will wear them all day and the liners stay dry on the inside however if you pull them out or put you hand between the rubber boot and the out side surface of the liner it will be soaking wet.  The liner does an incredible job wicking the moisture away from your feet.  The only down side is that they are little like wearing a slipper ice fishing in that they do not have a lot of support.

I wear a pair of Baffin Boots, the Wolf. They do wick well but I may have to see about getting new liners because it's gotten thin. I use them for snowmobiling to so they boots get a lot of wear. My Wolfs don't have a ton of support either but man are they light.

[FG Steve]

Steve, any suggestions on a boot dryer or method to dry boots? It's probably my biggest issue.

I don't have any magic bullets for you on that one.  And I'm fortunate enough not to share your situation entirely.  My boots are OK for a one-night trip and could probably last for more.

Lotsa extra socks?
Spare boots?
Spare liners?

The only 12V boot dryer I know of is the DryGuy Travel Dry DX.

Reviews are mixed but mostly positive, and REI says it draws 13 watts.  If that's true and my math and application of Ohm's law are right, then you need 8.66 Ah to use it for 8 hrs, so a cold 12+ Ah SLA might do it.  My Goal Zero Yeti 150 is about 150 Wh capacity and has been terrific.  Hmmm.

[Drifter_016]

My bunnys just need a wipe to dry them out.
Wear a poly liner sock with merino wool over and change them out daily.

[IceAddict87]

Ok I said I would give a report when I got back from my fishing/ice camping trip so here it is. This is mostly due to FG steve’s Pm promoting me to tell my story.

First thought that comes to mind is epic failure. I left iowa on a Wednesday morning at about 3 AM. The plan was to be to my destination in South Dakota by 10:30, fishing by 11:30. About jackknifed the pickup and trailer just getting onto the highway within 1 mile of my house! After 3hrs of driving on ice covered roads I made it to the Minnesota border, by then it was cold enough that the precipitation was all snow, it was 23 degrees and freezing rain...... good times. Stopped for fuel and a quick browse around fleet farm to loosen up and clear my head, bought some more jigs I really didn’t need and hit the road. 20 minutes later it started snowing and I was again driving on crappy snow covered roads for the next 2.5hrs. After a quick bathroom break and stretch I grabbed the sandwich I made the night before out of the cooler and got back on the road. Pulled into the local bait shop 45 minutes later, it was now 12:30, 2hrs behind schedule. After buying bait and a few more things I didn’t need the guy at the bait shop gave me a map and circled some areas to try, said I would catch fish at any of them.

After having to turn around yet again (forgot the beer) I was on my way to the lake. Once I arrived at the boat ramp I unloaded my otter and my atv and headed out to the lake, the wind was a brisk north sustained wind at 20+ mph with an actual temp of -4. I setup quick and immediately caught a perch. Within five minutes I had caught my personal best perch. With it being close to 3 by I decided I better set up camp. After 3 loads using my otter with the jet sled behind it I had all my gear out to the spot. After digging and clearing snow to setup my eskimo 6120i i got my trusty 11 year old makita drill and put in all six ice anchors, after the last one the battery died..... mostly from the cold but also I think the batteries could be getting a little tired. The wind did not let up whatsoever in this whole time. I started popping the hubs and was able to get it all popped out and set, with the help of a couple of the hubs being supported by the guy lines. I immediately drilled my fish hole and got the heater going. After setting up my cot and getting my bed situated I hunkered down.

The Time was 545 pm and it was now dark, this is when I started questioning my decision to try this. The actual temp outside was -10 and even with the big buddy heater on high it was still very cold in my shack. All of the things that could go wrong started to run through my head, besides the fact that I was cold and felt totally under prepared even though I had been prepping for over a month. I ate my canned soup I heated up on my butane stove and pondered my situation I have 3 kids at home who depend on me and I want to make sure I am there for them. I gave in and called the econo lodge to see about a room. I started packing my stuff and making trips to the pickup.

What do I think I did wrong?
#1 My cot was way too big! Took too much space and did not fit the 6120 very well, I thing the double long shack would also be a better choice.
#2 the conditions were terrible, I should have given in and gotten a hotel room earlier in the day.
#3 find someone who would be interested in going along so I wasn’t alone.
#4 setup camp first then fish.

The trip was not a total failure, the next day I was on the lake by 7 and fished all day long catching a great limit of perch! I met up with my friends that night At the rental house we had rented, And fished another lake all day Friday. I don’t know if I will try it again but it was definitely an experience. I will continue to watch this thread to learn everything I can!

[GBguy]

Did you happen to take any pics of how you had the inside of your 1620i laid out? I just bought one to upgrade from my 949i (the 6120i has 20 sq ft more space) and I had no trouble fitting a cot in my 949i. But maybe the 6-hub configuration is a little more awkward than the 4-hub.

I'm not thrilled to hear the big buddy wasnt enough to heat the bigger shack. That's something I hadn't thought about when buying a larger shack. Plus I got have the portable buddy heater. May need to upgrade to a wood stove for longer trips or when I can drive my truck to my spot.

Thanks for the report! I'll be spending 3 nights in my 6120i next weekend during the opening weekend of our sturgeon spearing season. I'll make sure to post my own report when I'm back.

[IceAddict87]

 My cot is a slumberjack big cot which is huge! I’m 6’5” so I wanted a big comfy cot. It’s just a little to big. When it was up against the wall it created some dead space, I put my totes in that space but it was very inconvenient to grab stuff from them. It was extremely cold and windy that night. The next day i fished out of my otter lodge and ran the heater on low or medium most of the day and fished in a sweat shirt, outside temp was -18 with a high of -8 but there wasn’t any wind that day.

[GBguy]

Makes sense, you mentioned your cot was big and I missed that part. Mine is a more standard size cot since I'm only 6', and it fit nicely along one side of my 949i. I'm hoping the 6120i has similar sized sides (just 2 more for added room) and the cot still fits well against one wall.

I'm curious, did your 6120i come with a clip on license holder for displaying owner information? I got one with my 949i and will need it for when I leave my shack unattended. If the 6120i comes with one, too, I can give the other one to the person who buys the 949i, otherwise I'll keep it.

[hlabrada]

Consider getting some cheap foam yoga squares from walmart.  Keeps the floor warm and dry.

[GBguy]

Yeah, I've got the interlocking fatigue mats from Harbor Freight, and will likely top thos with a rubber bottom rug. Problem is a lot of lakes around here and further north have slush and water on top of the ice. Next week looks cold enough to solidify all that crud on top of the ice before my trip though, fingers crossed!

[hlabrada]

You are right GBguy, the mats suck if there is slush on the lake.  I only bring them out when we have a nice clean surface.  Aside from that, like not have to walk around puddles of water because of the heater.   I have the Clam XL6000T, which is full thermal....good that it really traps the heat, but the floor becomes a small lake!

[jethro]

I do not use any floor, the bottom of the tub of my flip over has marine carpet in it, so I just take my boots off and step in the sled. I tired the interlocking mats but they really don't do anything for warmth (ice is actually a fantastic insulator) and I got really angry when they froze to the ice. Really can not understand the appeal of a floor in a portable shanty, the best thing about portables is having no floor.

[GBguy]

Ice is a great insulator, until it melts. Wanna have some fun, fill your sled with 2" of water and step into that first thing in the morning.

[FG Steve]

Wanna have some fun, fill your sled with 2" of water and step into that first thing in the morning.

Wow!   If you are making 2" puddles then you are heating things up much more than we ever do.  Before we started using a crate we might get a wet spot in front of the heater, but not so much now.  Ice and snow melt a bit, but no puddles for sure.  And with no heater overnight, things are pretty solid in the morning.

Might get warm enough to take off the coat and hat, but that's it.  No sitting around in your socks or anything.  Besides if I'm in my socks I can't run outside when a bell rings!

Since we started putting the Harbor Freight floor pads under the cot, the cot doesn't end up wet like it used to.  And with no flip over tub to step into, the pads are nice for changing clothes.  And that's all we use them for.  Personal preference thing, I guess.

Interesting conversation.

Ok I said I would give a report when I got back from my fishing/ice camping trip so here it is.

IA87, thanks for the report and lessons learned!  Negative temps and high winds are nasty.  What do you normally wear out on the ice?  I'm curious as you said you were cold.  If you can't get warm, then something is wrong and you need to act.  Glad you acted and were safe.  I'm also curious if you ever set things up in advance.

Slumberjack Big Cot is a nice sleeping platform.  I'm 6'5" and have one of those, too.  I have winter camped on it comfortably but not on the ice so far.

I hope you can have a successful overnight sometime!

[Akhardwater]

When I would run my quick fish 6 I would always have 2 heaters going once it got down around 10 above at night.  I use a big buddy and a little buddy together down to around 20 below, any colder and I really need to run two big buddies.  I used to run two sunflowers on high once it got colder than 35 below, and once it gets past 45 below things start to get a little uncomfortable.  I also run plywood floors for my shacks and I block them up with 4x4’s so my heat needs are probably a lot less then a no floor setup.  I have camped out several times at 40 below with floors and without and having a dry surface to stand on makes a big difference when your camping for a week or more.  For you guys just doing single over nights I recommend an indoor out door rug.  It will freeze in a little but as long as you have your heaters blocked up it shouldn’t be to bad.

[wyogator]

Steve, any suggestions on a boot dryer or method to dry boots? It's probably my biggest issue. I sweat like crazy, I can't seem to do anything about my feet getting wet. They are NEVER cold, so it's just dealing with putting on damp boots in the morning, then once I take 10 steps they are at sweat level again... At home I use a boot dryer, it's like my favorite thing. Even my work shoes go on it when I come home.

I take out my boot liners and put them in the attic mesh storage to hopefully dry every night but the boots themselves are damp.

Peet makes a propane boot dryer.

[badger132]

Use Muck boots and change socks. Take the moisture out with the socks.
You can also use antiperspirant on your feet to slow things down.

[IceAddict87]

IA87, thanks for the report and lessons learned!  Negative temps and high winds are nasty.  What do you normally wear out on the ice?  I'm curious as you said you were cold.  If you can't get warm, then something is wrong and you need to act.  Glad you acted and were safe.  I'm also curious if you ever set things up in advance.

Slumberjack Big Cot is a nice sleeping platform.  I'm 6'5" and have one of those, too.  I have winter camped on it comfortably but not on the ice so far.

I hope you can have a successful overnight sometime!
[/quote]

I have a striker predator suit. I wasn’t necessarily cold, it was colder in the shack than I would like it to be. The cot is amazing but it might be a bit big for ice camping.

[jethro]

Peet makes a propane boot dryer.

Well what do you know, so they do!! Amazon, $99. I very well may have to try it. I have two 3 day trips planned this season.

Thanks!! I was focused on battery power.