SARATOGA LAKE BS THREAD

[bigredonice]

My issue is, whether legally or illegally, the harvesting of large females of any species. It's not beneficial for a species to be harvesting the largest fish in the population. It causes a gradual shift over time towards a smaller average fish, reduces the viability of spawn, and reduces the total amount of eggs. I'm a firm believe of slot limits for this exact reason. Let the big ones go so they can keep producing strong healthy offspring and keep the smaller slot fish for eating.

you sure about that?   Not going to take fecundity and fertility into account?   The fact that those big fish already spread their genes when they were smaller and in their prime?   The fact that after age 8, the big females may carry more eggs, but far fewer actually hatch and make it to fry stage?       

[bigredonice]

next to me

with 8,600,000 eyes  going in  a year I'd say the words put and take  should ring a bell

Trap, do you know what 8 million walleye they stock looks like when they dump them in? You can fit them in a sandwich bag.

[bluegillbasher]

Trap, do you know what 8 million walleye they stock looks like when they dump them in? You can fit them in a sandwich bag.

Exactly,most of what they stock ends up being food for all the other fish in the lake the first year they're put in.

[ship of fools]

It's interesting to see slot limits mentioned.

I will be the first to say i don't know enough about this stuff so I can't offer an opinion but it's funny to see all of the striper crowd hating on slot limits while they are spoken well of here.

What's the difference?  I know with the stripers it's because they see a lot of floaters that didn't survive the release.

Thoughts?

[bluegillbasher]

Bottom line is the party will be over when they change the regs to march 1 closing for the lake and creek. This all started 15 years or more ago with 1 or 2 people figuring out they could catch a few before the season was over if the weather/ice conditions/open water were perfect for them to run up the creek before the season closed. That turned into those 1 or 2 taking a friend and then those friends taking friends and then it ended up posted on the shanty a few years ago and we all can figure out how many people know about it now. With the amount of complaints to raybrook and Albany last year of gross over the limit complaints the 3 dec officers we have could not keep up with or be in 50 pulloff spots at once so there was a lot of outright poaching going on and thus the reason for the new regs that are coming at some point.Those that live here around the kaydee between toga and ballston saw the sh#tshow around here last 2 seasons and looks like this years is shaping up to be the same because everyone knows its coming to an end and they're all trying for one last time.

[Adironzach]

you sure about that?   Not going to take fecundity and fertility into account?   The fact that those big fish already spread their genes when they were smaller and in their prime?   The fact that after age 8, the big females may carry more eggs, but far fewer actually hatch and make it to fry stage?     

Yes I am.  I've read plenty of studies throughout my schooling, marine biology major from UNCW, that show a positive coorilation in the ability of eggs born by large breeder females to have a higher survival rate as oppose to ones born to smaller fish. There are always other factors that will effect the spawn however as a general statement, this holds true more often than not.

[Adironzach]

As for the slot limit, I don't striper fish enough to have the knowledge to comment specifically on that. I support slot limits in general because it keeps the big fish that everyone wants to catch in the water while still accommodating those that want to take home something for the table as well.

[bigredonice]

Yes I am.  I've read plenty of studies throughout my schooling, marine biology major from UNCW, that show a positive coorilation in the ability of eggs born by large breeder females to have a higher survival rate as oppose to ones born to smaller fish. There are always other factors that will effect the spawn however as a general statement, this holds true more often than not.

Very cool, theres a bunch of us on here.   Studied fisheries for 4 years myself.   I remember some of the papers I cited in my work spoke about the positive relationship of fecundity to weight, but that actual survival of fertilized eggs was significantly lower with older fish with lower body condition indices (K).   Of course it is interesting to note that walleye populations have shown "flexibility" in that heavily exploited populations will actually have a higher fecundity in comparison with similar, nearby less exploited fish stocks.

[bird21s]

Wonder if every ones still gonna complain when they change the regs,and guys still hammer them from mid feb-march.  Any one remember back in the day when a person said "wow where did you catch that" and your fathers responce was, "secret spot". If you ever wondered why they wouldn't tell, now you know....might as well claim every eye you catch is from toga. Keep the crowd there to preserve other honey holes... the lake will eventually get just as crowded in the winter as it is mid summer.....enjoy!!!

[hunt4perch]

76,609,680 walleye stocked in Saratoga Lake by DEC 2011-15. Does not look like this is a self-sustaining fishery. If it's legal, keep it!

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/23233.html
https://data.ny.gov/Recreation/Fish-Stocking-Lists-Actual-Beginning-2011/e52k-ymww

The DEC stated they stocked over 11 Million in 2015 and over 13 Million each year for the previous 4 years. I'm sure some are eaten by other fish. But then again the newly hatched fry are eaten by a lot more fish!

[Adironzach]

Very cool, theres a bunch of us on here.   Studied fisheries for 4 years myself.   I remember some of the papers I often cited in my work spoke about the positive relationship of fecundity to weight, but that actual survival of fertilized eggs was significantly lower with older fish with lower body condition indices (K).   Of course it is interesting to note that walleye populations have shown "flexibility" in that heavily exploited populations will actually have a higher fecundity in comparison with similar, nearby less exploited fish stocks.

I didn't know that walleye have shown flexibility in heavily exploited populations, thanks for the tidbit. It's always cool to see a species adjust like that e.g. Coyotes. It makes sense to see the oldest breeding females who's body condition starts to decline to see a similar reduction in fecundity. Most reproductive success when compared to age is on some type of bell curve.

[SSmokinn SS]

Guys, the walleye they stock are fry. Those millions in stocking numbers you are reading are about 1/4" in size. They stock Simms y because so many don't make it. The survival rate to a grown adult stocked in the fry stage is next to nothing when you look at the big picture.

Anyways, looking at the weather we have coming....the walleye pickers season will be coming to a end very shortly other then being out of season.

[hunts2long]

They all start out as fry in lakes with no stocking. Maybe it is the truck ride that is killing them...h2l

[hunt4perch]

Guys, the walleye they stock are fry. Those millions in stocking numbers you are reading are about 1/4" in size. They stock Simms y because so many don't make it. The survival rate to a grown adult stocked in the fry stage is next to nothing when you look at the big picture.

DEC states they are twice that size
Water (Town)    Number    Species    Size in inches
Saratoga Lake    11509680    Walleye    0.5

[bigredonice]

DEC states they are twice that size
Water (Town)    Number    Species    Size in inches
Saratoga Lake    11509680    Walleye    0.5

just like DEC says the browns from the van hornesville hatchery are 8" when they are stocked, right?? LOL!

here's what a couple million walleye look like about to be stocked

[SSmokinn SS]

DEC states they are twice that size
Water (Town)    Number    Species    Size in inches
Saratoga Lake    11509680    Walleye    0.5

1/4-1/2"... what's the difference? Both are still eaten by bluegills, perch, bullhead, crappie, pickerel, bass, pike etc.

[hunt4perch]

1/4-1/2"... what's the difference? Both are still eaten by bluegills, perch, bullhead, crappie, pickerel, bass, pike etc.

1/4"

[iloveacrappiedinner]

 

1/4"

[hunts2long]

Be glad to take them in Sacandaga....h2l

[trapper2000]

1/4-1/2"... what's the difference? Both are still eaten by bluegills, perch, bullhead, crappie, pickerel, bass, pike etc.

if that's the case  tell the state to lift  the  restricted blue gill limit on the lake and let me sell crappies again and I personally will save the lives of millions of walleyes that otherwise would have been eaten 

[fordman]

Tomhannock doesn't alow fishing open water fishing during the months of January 1 threw march 15

[slipbob]

Tomhannock doesn't alow fishing open water fishing during the months of January 1 threw march 15

That's not true.  The ice fishing season on the Tommy is January 1st through March 15th but you can open water fish it 12 months a year as long as you're not in the shore fishing restricted zone on the west shore. 

[trapper2000]

just like DEC says the browns from the van hornesville hatchery are 8" when they are stocked, right?? LOL!

here's what a couple million walleye look like about to be stocked
(Image removed from quote.)

same  size as they stock in Oneida lake

[captin bill]

Have to check it out yum yum

[trapper2000]

Fisheries Management

Oneida Lake is the main egg collection location for walleye in New York State. The NYSDEC Oneida Fish Hatchery in Constantia collects over 300 million walleye eggs a year from Oneida Lake. The resulting walleye fry and fingerlings are stocked throughout New York State. Oneida Lake is stocked annually with around 150 million walleye fry.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/41034.html

[basshunter12748]

well its the 15th.  Looks like walleye aren't gonna get fishing pressure on their spawning runs.

[trapper2000]

no biggy ,now the  people will just have to find something else to blame because they can't catch fish

[buz23]

Some brave soul is out off Brown's this morning.  The lake is frozen south of Snake Hill.  It froze before the snow storm and now it looks as though the snow has incorporated into the ice, making a hard surface (how thick???).  It would have been a lot thicker had it not been so windy on those real cold days prior to the snow.

This is the first year is my memory that the lake has refrozen enough for fishing this late in the year.

[basshunter12748]

Thats crazy lol

Some brave soul is out off Brown's this morning.  The lake is frozen south of Snake Hill.  It froze before the snow storm and now it looks as though the snow has incorporated into the ice, making a hard surface (how thick???).  It would have been a lot thicker had it not been so windy on those real cold days prior to the snow.

This is the first year is my memory that the lake has refrozen enough for fishing this late in the year.

[nkocak]

Someone was out this afternoon too.... INFO???