NEW BAIT REGULATIONS

[SpEeD]

The limits and 7 day receipt rule should just go away period! All bait being sold now must be certified so that is a solution to help stop the spread of disease.Just because of a few bad apples that may catch there own bait and not follow the rules of using only certified bait does not mean the majority of the population should be penalized. This compares to say a Walmart frisking everyone leaving there store because of the very few shoplifters there are compared to honest shoppers out there. It just doesn't make sense does it?With pike minnows nearing $10\doz it just wont be affordable for the average fisherman to even fish live bait anymore if they have to throw them away when done fishing and that will be a sad day for sure!
 I will be sending in my comments but it doesn't look like the comment period starts until next week. Lets just hope that a sensible\enforcable solution comes out of all this that doesn't penalize any of us. Right now I don't see any of that with the emergency regs in place! IMO

[doctariAFC]

not inyour car? where is this info coming from?

cannot transport uncertified minnows.  It goes to transporting the fish species on the list of 37 vulnerable to VHS issued by the USDA APHIS division back in October.

[JJ]

Clarification regarding Public Comment from DEC website:

6. Can I comment on the revised emergency regulations?
No. There is no mechanism to comment on the revised emergency regulations. However, you can comment on the proposed regulations. The public comment period for the proposed regulations runs from March 28, 2007, through April 27, 2007.

7. Where do I submit comments for the proposed regulations?
To submit comments for the proposed regulations, send comments to:

Shaun Keeler
New York State Department of Environmental Conservation
625 Broadway
Albany, NY 12233-4754

If you would like to submit comments electronically, the regulations text and the Regulatory Impact Statement will be available on the web site with a link to e-mail comments available from March 28, 2007, through April 27, 2007.

For the most current info on VHS and baitfish:http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/fish/fhregs.html

[stickyfingerdpuppeter]

I was not attacking this person'bait wholesaler,dealer' just pointing out some facts.

[JJ]

I was not attacking this person'bait wholesaler,dealer' just pointing out some facts.

First of all, something that hasn't happened yet, like this coming summer's bait and gas prices, aren't facts. Do you have a crystal ball. Secondly, you need to check check your facts regarding this bait dealer; I don't know him, but I'm pretty sure after paying for VHS testing he suffered a loss and hasn't sold any bait yet. Thirdly, please keep your skewed logic to yourself in the future. To insinuate that the person responsible for educating more people about VHS on this forum than anyone else, did so a for ulterior motives is ridiculous. Do you really believe false information is being spread about VHS to sell more bait?
I've said it before, it you don't have any alternatives or positive suggestions, nobody wants to hear it.

[wert]

wild  minnows are the spreaders of vhs.you cant regulate or legislate their movement. they are anywhere and everywhere. the dec can try but we pay again for something mother nature has total control over. go to lock 23 in april and look at the swarms of buckeyes headed for oneida lake. you would not worry about afew thousand bucket of minnows.this here is the BIG picture and mom nature has the ONLY CAMERA!     LOCK 23 IS OFF CAUGHDENOY RD  BREWERTON NY

[SpEeD]

wild  minnows are the spreaders of vhs.you cant regulate or legislate their movement. they are anywhere and everywhere. the dec can try but we pay again for something mother nature has total control over. go to lock 23 in april and look at the swarms of buckeyes headed for oneida lake. you would not worry about afew thousand bucket of minnows.this here is the BIG picture and mom nature has the ONLY CAMERA!     LOCK 23 IS OFF CAUGHDENOY RD  BREWERTON NY

Now them there are facts! Not very pretty ones but I agree with the fact that this will spread all on its own - maybe a little slower without man made help but it is here just like zebra mussels,goby's,spiny water fleas and everything else coming across the sea's in the ballast waters of ocean cruising freighters! Hmmm,there is an idea - GO AFTER THE GREAT LAKE FREIGHTERS THAT ARE THE ROOT CAUSE OF ALL THESE PROBLEMS!!

On a side note anyone(JJ) who doesn't think the price a gas will go up this summer wanna make a side bet??? I only gamble on sure things so lookout if you take the bait!! lol

[Mainehazmt]

ok  just being a smart a$$ but maybe ny should have a "Bait rental" clause  end of day get a refund on un used bait    sorry just stirring the pot    glad Im in maine can catch my own but said I cant give them away during the season and must waste them instead of putting them back where I got them ;(

[SpEeD]

Enough ranting and complaining already about the new regs.

For those who don't care what the law is and do what they want regardless-you are selfish-plain and simple.Good luck fighting your tickets or fines-your going to need it.

Maybe ranting and raving will get some people educated too and involved enough to get in contact with the DEC about the 7 day rule!! BTW - The ranting about Grannis seems to have done some good!

And again name calling is not a very good thing to do

[1TIGGER]

The ranting about Grannis has done some good only because there are a select few here that have been diligent about keeping everyone informed and as a group we signed a petition voicing the concerns of New York sportsman as a whole .
If we were to ban together as a group on the bait issue like we have for the Grannis issue and make ourself heard as a group again we may actually push them into sensible bait restrictions .
I don't think anyone here has issues with bait control considering the consequences however we do have issues with sensless laws that have too many loopholes in them and not enough thought put into them .
just my .02

As for the seven day rule , I don't think the bait shops tried to push it through . Why ? What do they have to gain by it ?
If the bait has a seven day expiration on its certification it will be seven days for them as well and I'm sure they don't want to eat the kind of money it would take to replace a tank full of pike minnows that don't get sold in that seven day time slot .

[o2rmk800]

well put 1tigger. maybe we as a GROUP start something to help make this less of an issue and more of a thing to help our fishing for the future. first we could start by trying to get the 7-day thing longer maybe 10-14 days that gives us alittle more time between fishing trips. and yes i have called my local dec office and stated my opinions about this. with more of everyones calls they may just change this.

steve

[SpEeD]

well put 1tigger. maybe we as a GROUP start something to help make this less of an issue and more of a thing to help our fishing for the future. first we could start by trying to get the 7-day thing longer maybe 10-14 days that gives us alittle more time between fishing trips. and yes i have called my local dec office and stated my opinions about this. with more of everyones calls they may just change this.

steve

Sounds good and all about a group thing but again this is not a yes or no option like the Grannis issue was. Too many different views on this to push any straight up suggestions to the DEC as I will not be happy with any expiration date as the minnows are certified for use\bought and paid for by the user and therefore should be used as long as the buyer see's fit. If the risk to the fisheries is the fact that minnow trappers may try to skirt the rules well then deal with that as a separate issue and not by punishing the legit buyers of bait.IMO

And yes when the comment period opens next week I will be in touch with the DEC stating my opinions too!

[doctariAFC]

Hello guys.....

Ok.  So, we have issues with the bait regulations as they stand today.  Let's get on the subject a little to remind everyone that we cannot to a darned thing about the regs in place TODAY.  These are considered Emergency Regulations, and the DEC has the State Consitutional Authority to act in whatever manner they see fit to protect the natural resources on behalf of the people of NYS. 

What we need to focus on are the PERMANENT Regs.  Let's all remember when the first go 'round we had on VHS Regs, we had to contend with something different and difficult as well.  And, we couldn't do a thing about them, either.  But we did participate in the process, many very professionally, and the end result was the current changes we now also "hate".

I think we'll all agree that the DEC MUST act to address the VHS pathogen threat, right?  Although it is TRUE that the number one vector for spread is the natural movement of wild fish, or the natural transport of said fish by birds and other fish-eating creatures, the bait bucket is also a stellar vector, which we at least can attempt to control.  Ditto for the fish farms and hatcheries, private and state-run.  Regulations affecting these operations, plus new guidelines for DEC stream and fisheries surveys are also in place.

However, baitfish is extremely challenging because this is something used where "the metal meets the meat".  So, we do recognize that we must protect the fisheries as best we can (state constitution demands such), and we certainly should understand that in terms of baitfish, pain and suffering in some form for live bait suppliers, resellers and end users will indeed occur.  The question is, exactly how do we balance pain, economic dynamics and user satisfaction with protecting our fisheries for our children's children?  I think we all want pretty much the same end result....  its just that the devil is in the detail.

I think everyone could agree that the 100 fish limit on store-bought bait was retarded.  The receipt acts as the exemption from this personal limit of 100 baitfish (that limit, as far as I know, still applies to self-caught baitfish).  This is a similar regulation to PA's bait conservation laws.  The receipt is also supposed to note some detail, like certified minnows, rather than minnows.  This is because bait shops may commercially harvest and sell bait from infected waters (Lakes Erie and Ontario), provided bait is used in same water, and are not transported by vehicle to a fishing destination.  Sale of these fish void the ability to sell certified bait at the same retail location.  The receipt proves it came from a certified disease-free source, but this receipt cannot act as the exemption for that batch forever.  Obvious reasons as to why, but, in reality, its like evidence chain of custody rules.  When you buy them, there is evidence of a fresh purchase, such as an air bag, or your bait bucket full of minnows, fishing poles in the back.  You have your receipt, and all is good.  However, if you have the bait bucket full of minnows, and a receipt that's 30 days old, how are we to know that bait is the same batch listed on the receipt (or self-caught), and where did the water you must have stored them in come from?

I don't know where the 7-day thing came from, perhaps an arbitrary number.  This doesn't mean the certification on the bait at the store is bad after day 7, it affects the end user and his or her ability to transport that leftover bait in a car or other motorized vehicle.

How do we address this one effectively?

Would 14 days be good?  21?  30?
Would it be better to demand all live bait sold must be sold in air bags? 


Something is going to give here.  We cannot "make changes" to protect our waters and fisheries, expecting that what we are accustomed to will not change right along with it.

[theozon]

Just saw a big *ss bait truck from Wisconsin driving back home on the 90 silver creek area. Big stainless steel tanks. huge oxygen tanks on the back. All the way from Wisconsin? That must cost a pretty penny on gas? I wonder if those fish were Certified? Or are those minnows exempt cause they come from unaffected waters? I belive the DEC is going way overboard on this issue. This vhs thing is going to spread thru bird waterfoul droppings anyways.This VHS has been in Europe for a long time. They still have fish. It will come down to THE STRONG WILL SURVIVE.

[SpEeD]

Hello guys.....
I think we'll all agree that the DEC MUST act to address the VHS pathogen threat, right?  Although it is TRUE that the number one vector for spread is the natural movement of wild fish, or the natural transport of said fish by birds and other fish-eating creatures, the bait bucket is also a stellar vector, which we at least can attempt to control.  Ditto for the fish farms and hatcheries, private and state-run.  Regulations affecting these operations, plus new guidelines for DEC stream and fisheries surveys are also in place.

The DEC has acted on the VHS spread by requiring the use of certified bait for most end users - So why not simply require ALL bait sold in the state be certified then as it keeps things simple for the end user\bait shop owners who purchase bait? Keep the law in place that you can only use minnows that are trapped\caught to be used only on the same waters they were caught in like it is now and make it so all bait stores cannot sell uncertified bait period. The simpler regs will be easier for everyone to know and hopefully follow and will keep the VHS from spreading faster then it will naturally anyhow. Mother nature has the final say and I am sure everyone(DEC included) can see the big picture and knows it is a little to late at this point as it is here and will spread naturally(just a little slower w/o our bait buckets help). There will always be lawbreakers as to using uncertified minnows where they please but that is true with any kind of law and it is useless to add minuscule regs like the limits\receipt rule to try and circumvent this. Do we ban hunting because of poachers? Nope - Extreme example but in the same line as minnow limits and expiration dates based on the same logic.IMO

[doctariAFC]

The DEC has acted on the VHS spread by requiring the use of certified bait for most end users - So why not simply require ALL bait sold in the state be certified then as it keeps things simple for the end user\bait shop owners who purchase bait? Keep the law in place that you can only use minnows that are trapped\caught to be used only on the same waters they were caught in like it is now and make it so all bait stores cannot sell uncertified bait period. The simpler regs will be easier for everyone to know and hopefully follow and will keep the VHS from spreading faster then it will naturally anyhow. Mother nature has the final say and I am sure everyone(DEC included) can see the big picture and knows it is a little to late at this point as it is here and will spread naturally(just a little slower w/o our bait buckets help). There will always be lawbreakers as to using uncertified minnows where they please but that is true with any kind of law and it is useless to add minuscule regs like the limits\receipt rule to try and circumvent this. Do we ban hunting because of poachers? Nope - Extreme example but in the same line as minnow limits and expiration dates based on the same logic.IMO

Great points...  But, I guess to that end, I'll play devil's advocate.
I buy a big old supply of emeralds, they are certified, they are bought at a great baitshop, and I use about 10 minnows out of that batch because the fishin' absolutely sucked.  I don't wish to toss them, as I have a ton of minnows left, and that would be like chucking money straight into the trash can.  So I bring them home and store them in a tank until I can use them.

Where did I get the water from?  What other bait has been placed in the tank?  Has this tank been used for bait before, possibly leaving a residual fish pathogen behind (remember, the testing certifies disease free for several pathogens, not just VHS).  Have I tested my tank?

EVen the most well intentioned sportsman can err.  Again , just playing devil's advocate, but a lot of fish cannot keep its certification in the hands of John Q Public because of that chain of evidence custody thing.  Most are going to obey the law.  Most also may only use the bait that day, and chuck the rest when they're done.  Take the self-collected minnows and using a receipt to fraudulently misrepresent the "health " of your bait.  Toss it.  Inadvertent infection through not knowing where the bait has been, how it was handled, where it was stored, etc, do come into play, do they not?

[o2rmk800]

regarless of the rules and laws set forth by dec/nys or whomever. there are still going to be those certain people that are not going to abide by them. we can only do whats right by our standards in life to follow rules/laws and report those that don't. just like we were taught by our parents at an early age.

steve

[doctariAFC]

Point well taken BUT if we had laws made to govern every possible scenario in life - well life would just suck and that is why we don't have laws covering every possible scenario out there! Enforce the reasonable\more broad laws in the books and educate people! You Doc are trying to do that and it is a great thing but keeping things simpler is always better! What are your thoughts on this disease spreading by mother nature only? Do you think any regs regarding certified minnows will have to be changed once VHS has spread to the majority of bodies of water? Thanks again for your time and efforts!

I agree....  Keep it simple stupid works best 99.9% of the time.

In terms of natural spread, or whatnot, I believe the genie is already out of the bottle.  We first detected VHS in Lake Ontario in 2005.  It was in Michigan in 2003.  In 2006, we found it in Lake Erie, Lake Ontario, Upper Niagara, during spring/ summer, but nothing happened on it until November, basically when open water fishing seasons were winding down, bait was already used and the disease is probably already spread out further than we know.  We won't know anything until this spring, really, when the waters heat up to the 40-60 degree range.  That is the temp VHS likes to blossom, and that's what we have to wait for, I guess.  Still way too many "I don't know's" in this mess.

Could regs change?  Yes.  Will they change if conditions change or more knowledge is gained?  Yes, the DEC stated that already.  They're demonstrating it with this next round of new regs.

Let's also understand the current political climate, and not discount this.  We have seen our share of pathogens crop up, with little or no action taken on the part of the DEC.  The lack of action is mainly due to no health threats to us, coupled with many of the fish being affected were not "money" fish (see Koi Herpes Virus in Chautauqua Lake Carp), so no real incentive existed to act.  

This "could be" viewed as a failure to execute the constitutional duties by the new regime (Team Steamroller) and this could certainly affect the futures of those fisheries biologists, managers and technicians we know have done a tremendous job with improving NYS fisheries, and we could see our friends get the heave ho, potentially replaced by some clowns, ya know?  

This one is more political than we may want to admit.  The best we can do is understand all of this, and then respond with the most sensible set of rules.  I love the idea of selling certified disease-free baitfish.  Its a long time overdue.  How we safeguard our waters from inadvertent spread to show we are making an effort to prevent further spread beyond this is (disease-free bait) a challenge.  

And we also may have to be willing to change a few of our practices, too.  Holding a tank of bait for use next week may have to become a thing of the past.  That, too, is a possibility.  Think of how you would want to assure the waters you fish will not receive VHS from you when using live bait.    I haven't formed my own counter to this.  Been waiting for the Federation Meeting tonight, to seek some dialog with our fish committee.

[Mr.Esox]

The problem I have is None of the other states Mn,Ohio,In,Ill, Wi,Mi, Pa, have enacted such laws against the fisherman. They do not need a reciept or need to be worried about certified bait and they can still harvest there own bait. What a great state we live in. One states response was to handle the disease case by case not the whole state. It would mean that certain regulations would be put into effect for that body or bodies of water that have VHS,that makes more sense. I AGREE SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE BUT EVERYBODY MUST SUFFER. What about the guy that has a pond on his property that is spring fed and he harvested his own bait the water is connected to nowhere, now he has to buy bait. I'm sorry I can't agree with certified bait.

[1TIGGER]

In the long haul not even stopping live bait all together is going to eliminate this .
At least until there is a cure for VHS .
It will only prolong the inevitable . All any of us can do is lobby to get the people in charge to sit down and take a real long hard look at ALL the issues involved for the dealers and the fisherman and hope they come up with a realistic resolution .

[IceReaver]

Truthfully, the new bait regulations really stink...I'm a weekend warrior due to work restrictions and I don't have the available time to run to the bait shop before each weekend to pick up minnows.  I used to be able to keep a couple dozen minnows alive for a month or longer.  HOWEVER, the state of NY has too much at stake to remain passive like the other states mentioned (MN, IL, WI, MI, PA).  In case anyone has forgotten, we have 6 million acres of protected habitat that would be devastated by pathogens, including VHS.  Have you forgotten the outrage at Midwest acid rain destroying native brook trout habitat...well the native brookies are finally starting to recover/thrive again.

With super restrictive regulations, it's the easiest method for enforcement...weeding out the lawless, uncaring "sportsmen" who don't care about our natural resources.  As times passes and a better understanding of VHS can be determined, regulations will be relaxed and we'll forget how this "used to really stink way back when".  It's better to be proactive then reactive...or would you rather lakes be devoid of gamefish altogether?

[wert]

cure for vhs?. it has spread way beyond mans ability to cure or control it. it will wax and wane as it has for eons. mans ability to intervene is long past or probably never existed. mother nature will run her course as she always has. its only good  side is it will keep I CON WORKERS from lay offs. cure or control ? not possible. unless someone can figure a way to inoculate a few trillion wild minnows. let us all hope mother nature spares the humble earth worm her wrath. there are google bytes of them!  well    time to go fishing with my google byte worms. oh oh i better check to see if they regulated them while i was writing this., thats not funny but its certainly true

[IceGeek]

vhs is viral....have fun trying to find a cure.  In other words, it's likely impossible

[got em]

  check out what Tom at River Basin in catskill says about baitfish...http://www.riverbasinsports.com/  its under fishing reports, for the up coming striper season...good reads 

[doctariAFC]

Ok.  Last night the Federation was discussing a ton of issues, and the new VHS Emergency Regs were certainly at the top pf the list.

Here is the skinny from our Fish Committee:

1 - The 100 fish baitfish personal limit is gonzo.  This applies to both bait purchased or personally collected.  Again, you cannot TRANSPORT uncertified bait in a motorized vehicle over land.

2 - Regarding the receipt.  This one is interesting.  The receipt informs Law Enforcement as to when the bait was purchased, but you ALSO NEED a copy of the certificate stating the bait is clean or you could get a ticket.  This applies to over land travel in motor vehicles.  Not everyone understands this twist, including many bait shops, so we are now forewarned.  The Federation is formally requesting the DEC get the word out better on these regs, with clarity, through signs and other informational items to be placed in bait shops, boat launches and also signs posted in known minnow collection areas.  This one is very confusing, as the way the regs read, wholesalers must provide a certificate to the retailer certifying disease free.  The wording of the law says retail sale of baitfish (other than sale on same body of water from which minnows were collected) shall also require that the fish are free of the specified diseases and that the purchaser shall retain a receipt of the transaction.  Roughly translated, you alos need the copy of the certificate to show that the fish are disease free.

3 - Minnows may be transported in any number if they have been salted or cured witn other preserving substances, without certifications on your person, nor do you need a receipt.  Frozen bait alone cannot be transported unless you have a receipt AND the bait is kept in its commercial package.  This applies really to the frozen herring for cut bait used by Great Lakes Salmon anglers.

Also, it appears a couple more pathogens have been added to the hot list for testing.  No big deal, but I found that interesting.

A question came up concerning the new test Cornell has developed which turns around VHS results in 24 hours.  This testing method must first be certified as reliable by AFS or World Org on Animal Health, to satisfy the APHIS order.  The DEC is relying on that criteria as well.  We do not expect this new testing method will receive certification until Dec 2007.  Further, since VHS is not the only pathogen being tested for, we are uncertain if this test will truly deliver any turnaround benefits, unless this same test will accomplish the same time frame of results for the other diseases.

Although these are emergency regulations, the permanent regs (when made permanent) will be in place through 2009.  They will be revisited at that point.

Finally, the proposed proposal (I know that sounds funny) for changes to the fishing regulations are now published (have been for a while) with a comment period open right now.  Its about 20+ pages of information/ reg changes.  Please review these carefully and submit comments as well.  The process on these new proposed regs (which are for the 2008 season) is simply, regs in proposed form are out for comment.  You may not propose new regs in addition to what is proposed to be proposed.  After the initial comment period, the comments will be gathered up and any final tweakings will be made, then the official proposal will be released, for another comment period, prior to formal adoption in part or in total.

[doctariAFC]

Doc,please clarify where the info came from stating you had to supply a certified disease free receipt AND a copy of the health certificate.When i spoke with greg koslowski-info man for dec on vhs disease-he clearly stated i had to provide a receipt that stated bait was certified disease free pursuaint to part 188 of dec vhs regs with my shop name,address,and phone #.He said i DID NOT have to supply a copy of the health report with the receipt but i DID have to have it posted in my shop.If you can clear this up i'd appreciate it as if this is true then they have changed the regs in the last week and i need to phone them again for the umpteenth time to clarify.Thanks

THis came from the DEC Region 9 managers.  The receipt must state on it that these are certified disease free minnows, or a copy of the certificate must accompany the receipt.  For those cash registers that can print out a description of the item purchased, the item must state certified disease-free minnows.  If the cash register is an older model, simply printing out the price etc., without a real description of the goods (I hope you know what I mean by that), then a copy of the health report must accompany the receipt.

So, if you have a register that is more modern (computer driven, not calculator driven), you are ok.  If you have older cash registers, you need to provide a copy of the certificate, too.

[doctariAFC]

ok,kinda clarifys my question but here's what they told me on that issue with the cash registers.They don't expect everyone to go out and buy a new register to print out the receipt.I could print out my own receipts in mass on the computer with all the info-certified disease free bait and all the types i sell with a space next to them to write down numbers sold with the date sold.They would accept this as a legal receipt as long as i stapled the register receipt with price onto the back of it.

Yes, that also addresses it, too, but I would also make certain this is well communicated to the ECOs and also to your customers.  Info on this hasn't been very effective in getting out, ya know?

Freaking confusing stuff.  But that is par for the course, is it not?  Heck, we received a request from TU last night to support three provisions in the proposed proposal for 2008 fishing reg changes.

One of the proposed regulation changes is to make it illegal to sell trout eggs in NYS.  Not the ones in a jar, already processed, but the raw trout eggs - prohibit sale in NYS.

[SpEeD]

WOW - So much for the KISS(keeping it simple stupid) system huh?? Maybe we should be getting together as a GROUP to fight the ENTIRE bait regulations enacted since the VHS scare as it is senseless at this point!!! Doesn't the DEC even have the logical common sense that dictates this disease is mother nature driven and that it will run it's course even with there ridiculous\confusing new regs! Unless of course this is nothing more than REVENUE driven to get more money in the nys tax funds at the sportsmen expense???Cripes they are hurting the bait shop owner and fisherman enough already and it is time to stop them!
BTW - Now that we have added to the list of invaders like Gobys,zebra mussels,spiny water fleas,etc,etc wouldn't it be more wise for the DEC to focus on the root cause of all this and STOP the ships from dumping there ballast water into our waterways!! Now that is something I am sure we could all support!!

[hunters08]

First of all, something that hasn't happened yet, like this coming summer's bait and gas prices, aren't facts. Do you have a crystal ball. Secondly, you need to check check your facts regarding this bait dealer; I don't know him, but I'm pretty sure after paying for VHS testing he suffered a loss and hasn't sold any bait yet. Thirdly, please keep your skewed logic to yourself in the future. To insinuate that the person responsible for educating more people about VHS on this forum than anyone else, did so a for ulterior motives is ridiculous. Do you really believe false information is being spread about VHS to sell more bait?
I've said it before, it you don't have any alternatives or positive suggestions, nobody wants to hear it.

actually some of us do like to here all points of view!!!!Sticky has made some good points ,speed has ,and others have.You have not even came up with alternatives or suggestions other than copy and pasting others posts.If you think bait prices arent going to go up,your crazy.If people are trucking in bait from other states trust me there making money!!!Is the average joe smo bait shop making money? YES duh or he wouldnt be in business!!!! so yes you guys keep posting because there are people that want to hear it!!!(4# test laker who doesnt use 4# test drifting the Niagara bar for lakers?)

[doctariAFC]

WOW - So much for the KISS(keeping it simple stupid) system huh?? Maybe we should be getting together as a GROUP to fight the ENTIRE bait regulations enacted since the VHS scare as it is senseless at this point!!! Doesn't the DEC even have the logical common sense that dictates this disease is mother nature driven and that it will run it's course even with there ridiculous\confusing new regs! Unless of course this is nothing more than REVENUE driven to get more money in the nys tax funds at the sportsmen expense???Cripes they are hurting the bait shop owner and fisherman enough already and it is time to stop them!
BTW - Now that we have added to the list of invaders like Gobys,zebra mussels,spiny water fleas,etc,etc wouldn't it be more wise for the DEC to focus on the root cause of all this and STOP the ships from dumping there ballast water into our waterways!! Now that is something I am sure we could all support!!

All I can say is.......  LAWYERS

Yes, mother nature will do what it does, with or without our intervention.  Just remember that we also have a heavy dose of political conditions right now, unfortunately, and something MUST be done or else heads could roll, and that is something we can ill afford at this time.

In terms of the ballast waters - yes, you are 100% correct.  Everything we are trying to do in terms of protecting the natural resources, waters, fishes, lands, and wildlife semm pretty moot when the front door is wide open to trouble.

However, I must share with that no matter how much the DEC does, until the NYSDOT acts and secures the St Lawrence, or they close it completely, this challenge will persist.  The DEC has zero authority over the St Lawrence and the shipping.  Zero.