Cormorant eats foot long pike

[cnypanfisher]

I think the USDA and the conservation guys are doing an A+++ job on Oneida anyway. Every morning and night you hear the guys chasing them off Willard and D island behind my place in the bay. Not to mention the inflatable people, and the reflective tape they put out. You do not see as many as there were before. Anyone who fishes Oneida in the summer can attest to this.

cnypanfisher

[hamlin big daddy]

I think the USDA and the conservation guys are doing an A+++ job on Oneida anyway. Every morning and night you hear the guys chasing them off Willard and D island behind my place in the bay. Not to mention the inflatable people, and the reflective tape they put out. You do not see as many as there were before. Anyone who fishes Oneida in the summer can attest to this.

cnypanfisher

OK you have some folks chasing the Cormorants  off Willard and D island. Good job. Wonder where they end up going after that. Probably waters where they are still seen by the thousands.

[hamlin big daddy]

obviously a perfect example of a person ignorant of the facts shooting his mouth off and badmouthing the folks who work very hard dealing with this problem of cormorants. The DEC has been doing everything they can (you try getting permits to kill federally protected migrating birds!) for close to 10 years to control these birds. no, we will never be able to irradicate them, they are protected and do have their place in the ecosystem. But they have been severely reduced by oiling, shooting, attling, and harassment.  the little galoo colony is significantly smaller than it was in years past.  I can't stand the birds either, but at least i've done my research at to what has been/is being done for control.
why can't everyone seem to get the idea that most DEC folks are hunters and fishermen too, and took their jobs because they want to HELP. they sure didn't persue their career for the money! and not buying your license is just going to hurt you, that money funds programs that protect your hunting and fishing resources. the "do good" projects will get funded anyhow by programs like the EPA.
One more piece of advice, folks should stop admitting and bragging on a public forum about shooting cormorants, which is a FEDERAL crime.

I agree with what you say. They have a place in the ecosystem. Buried in the backyard.

[cnypanfisher]

OK you have some folks chasing the Cormorants  off Willard and D island. Good job. Wonder where they end up going after that. Probably waters where they are still seen by the thousands.

Chasing them gets them off their nests to stop reproduction. As far as where they go, I think they just fly in a big circle and come back to the same spots. At least they are making an effort, and from what I hear the oiling seems to be helping out a bit on Little Galoo as well. As far as lakes near you, where you see 1000's of these birds, there is probably some group of gadam hippys lobbying for the birds rights to be. All I can think of doing is writing the state, or DEC people about it, venting in this forum is not going to do much. 99% of the people here agree that they are a nuisance, and should have some controls. Maybe you could just go buy 500 shotgun shells and go on a rampage, whatever makes you feel better.

cnypanfisher

[JJ]

obviously a perfect example of a person ignorant of the facts shooting his mouth off and badmouthing the folks who work very hard dealing with this problem of cormorants. The DEC has been doing everything they can (you try getting permits to kill federally protected migrating birds!) for close to 10 years to control these birds. no, we will never be able to irradicate them, they are protected and do have their place in the ecosystem. But they have been severely reduced by oiling, shooting, attling, and harassment.  the little galoo colony is significantly smaller than it was in years past.  I can't stand the birds either, but at least i've done my research at to what has been/is being done for control.
why can't everyone seem to get the idea that most DEC folks are hunters and fishermen too, and took their jobs because they want to HELP. they sure didn't persue their career for the money! and not buying your license is just going to hurt you, that money funds programs that protect your hunting and fishing resources. the "do good" projects will get funded anyhow by programs like the EPA.
One more piece of advice, folks should stop admitting and bragging on a public forum about shooting cormorants, which is a FEDERAL crime.

Great, sensible post. Double crested cormorants are Federally protected, DEC's hands are tied on this issue. I know they are stopping them from nesting in new areas. They have shown up on Lake George in recent years (been on Champlain a long time), any nesting cormorants are to be killed. My understanding is some were taken care of last fall, they have only tried to nest in the North basin so far.

Anyone suggesting that people don't buy hunting and fishing licences to protest can't be taken seriously, that statement is ludicrous. The Conservation Fund is has been in a deficit, as much a $10 Million; how can someone expect DEC to do more with even less money.

[JJ]

Maybe you could just go buy 500 shotgun shells and go on a rampage, whatever makes you feel better.

Just don't go bragging about in the bars like the last group that did it on Lake Ontario, loose lips sink ships.

[taxi1]

obviously a perfect example of a person ignorant of the facts shooting his mouth off and badmouthing the folks who work very hard dealing with this problem of cormorants. The DEC has been doing everything they can (you try getting permits to kill federally protected migrating birds!) for close to 10 years to control these birds. no, we will never be able to irradicate them, they are protected and do have their place in the ecosystem. But they have been severely reduced by oiling, shooting, attling, and harassment.  the little galoo colony is significantly smaller than it was in years past.  I can't stand the birds either, but at least i've done my research at to what has been/is being done for control.
why can't everyone seem to get the idea that most DEC folks are hunters and fishermen too, and took their jobs because they want to HELP. they sure didn't persue their career for the money! and not buying your license is just going to hurt you, that money funds programs that protect your hunting and fishing resources. the "do good" projects will get funded anyhow by programs like the EPA.
One more piece of advice, folks should stop admitting and bragging on a public forum about shooting cormorants, which is a FEDERAL crime.

I don't recall badmouthing the DEC. In fact I don't recall the DEC even coming up. My beef is with the feds. I could give you example after example of the feds not having a clue. And it isn't that hard to get permits from the feds albeit they are slow in sending them and the fees aren't cheap.  I have one to get rid of up to two Great Blue Herons a year. Cost me $100.00 annually. If an infected  heron even sheets in one of my fish ponds or bends over and drops his parasites into the water my fish could get the VHS virus and I am out of business. So now thanks to the feds not doing their part (haven't and aren't doing  a GD think to stop the invasives coming via ballast water) I and the GBH's will have to suffer.

As far as the commorant what really honks off the fish farmers and the fisherman is the feds refused to do anything about that until they got lots of flack and political pressure. They're slow, they're ignorant, and they are a bureacracy that isn't worth their salaries. Comprende?

As fish farmers we're still scratching our heads trying to figure out how expensive testing of fish farms for VHS is going to solve the VHS problem. VHS has not been, and may never be found on fish farms. We have our own fish and we definitely wouldn't be using any Great Lakes fish. At the same time nothing is being done about the ballast water that has now brought in 183 exotics and counting! And as a fish taxidermist I'm still running into anglers that have never even heard of VHS. So much for education efforts which are a joke too. All it takes is for Joe Blow to move some fish from one body of water to another and it just keeps spreading.

Don't even get me started on the logic of testing fish farms that only transport fish across state lines(apparently the virus does not activate until it crosses state lines LOL), or why the fathead minnow is so suspect, but has never tested postive and isn't even on the list of susecptable species. Additionally most fatheads come from down south and are already tested for the virus where is has not been found yet.

I hate to sound so negative but the more I know about the federal government the more I want to get disgusted at the gross incompetence.

[JJ]

I don't recall badmouthing the DEC. In fact I don't recall the DEC even coming up.

There again what'sthe problem with this. It's the DEC/Goverment. Stop buying the liciences. Break their backs.

I agree taxi, the Federal gov't is the problem here.

[taxi1]

Well that's not me is it? The statement seemed to be a blanket statment so don't include me.

[fishman79]

wasn't badmouthing you taxidermist1, someone else, my appologies if you thought that. we seem to be on about the same page regarding the feds. best of luck in your business.

[#1bassfisher]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=512830&in_page_id=1770

:laugh:nice

[sunshine]

Most of the credit for cormorant control on Oneida has to go to the Oneida Lake Association.
Check out their website if you are not already a member. Best five bucks you will ever spend.

www.oneidalakeassociation.org

[cnypanfisher]

Now that is a great post! thanks for the real deal on VHS. (Blue herons are nasty fish eating machines too)

Yeah blue herons are fish eating mothers, but I never saw 150 of them in 1 group. Do they really affect the fish populations as much as a cormorant? I think herons are pretty gadam cool to look at, and there is usually a pair on the point behind my house. I though they ate mostly frogs + stuff, usually in swamps. Is there a anti-frog eating blue heron group here too??

cnypanfisher

[hamlin big daddy]

Chasing them gets them off their nests to stop reproduction. As far as where they go, I think they just fly in a big circle and come back to the same spots. At least they are making an effort, and from what I hear the oiling seems to be helping out a bit on Little Galoo as well. As far as lakes near you, where you see 1000's of these birds, there is probably some group of gadam hippys lobbying for the birds rights to be. All I can think of doing is writing the state, or DEC people about it, venting in this forum is not going to do much. 99% of the people here agree that they are a nuisance, and should have some controls. Maybe you could just go buy 500 shotgun shells and go on a rampage, whatever makes you feel better.

cnypanfisher

Now that's a great idea. Knew you would get it eventually. Although a little slow.

[cnypanfisher]

Bet they wouldnt look to cool if they where standing in your pond eating all the bass you stocked in there

I would not stock a pond with bass, bass taste like S@#$. Maybe some little trouts or something. :-)

cnypanfisher

[taxi1]

Yeah blue herons are fish eating mothers, but I never saw 150 of them in 1 group. Do they really affect the fish populations as much as a cormorant? I think herons are pretty gadam cool to look at, and there is usually a pair on the point behind my house. I though they ate mostly frogs + stuff, usually in swamps. Is there a anti-frog eating blue heron group here too??

cnypanfisher

In a recreational pond before the VHS virus showed up they typically were not that big a deal as true they do eat mostly frogs, small fish, and weak fish. Other than introducing the yellow grub parasite they didn't do a lot of harm. However in an aquaculture pond they can do a lot of harm as there are more fish, and the fish population is more dense. I have had them spear fish too large to eat because they instinctively go for whatever moves. But now with the VHS threat even a recreaional pond owner should take notice. However it's doubtful a recreation pond owner can get a permit to take them out.

And as far as numbers, no you typically won't see a lot as they are territorial. However I do know of a state fish hatchery in Ohio that had them lined up like a cafeteria at one of their raceways!    The state put covered on the raceways but one bird figured out how to get in and soon they were all having a good time!  

Believe it or not I really respect the bird and don't want to kill one if I don't have to. They are very very intelligent and learn fast and of course beautiful. The lethal option is a last resort if they don't get the message with all the nonlethal measures. My dog loves to chase them off but unfortunately she has to see them first and sometimes of course we are not home and she is in the house. I'm hoping to put up a nonlethal electric fence this year which may keep me from having to kill any.

Interesting about the frogs... They are disappearing in my neck of the woods in leaps and bounds. In fact the state is getting volunteers to do a census. I know a fish farmer that had none around his ponds. But once he started whacking the herons he had a blue million frogs. Perhaps the birds being protected has been a factor in the frog decline as the number of herons has increased?  

[taxi1]

I would not stock a pond with bass, bass taste like S@#$. Maybe some little trouts or something. :-)

cnypanfisher

Last year was my last year for raising green carp (largemouths). I may still raise smallmouth though as Bass Pro Shops wants all the trophy size ones I can raise for their tanks. 

I've never understood the enthusiam and money spent to catch green carp. I'm more impressed by a big crappie, yellow perch, or monster bluegill.

[JJ]

Blue herons are pretty cool, love how they stalk their prey. Been seeing more of them lately, had one hanging around my dock last summer. They can really do some damage on small ponds and especially at hatcheries.

[Pasquatch]

Both the Cormorant and the Blue Heron have been here alot longer than you or I have. Whether its our place or not to wipe them out, I don't know. Cormorants can be destructive to a landscape and to a body of water, and I think that they need to be controlled, but I feel that wiping them out is not the answer, as it could have a significant negative impact on the same enviornments that we are trying to protect. Not very long ago, The Double Crested Cormorant was almost completely wiped out by the use of DDT, and have made a remarkable comeback. I think its foolish and rather holier-than-thou to wipe them out.

I don't think the federal government is dragging its feet on control of the population of these birds, it jsut doesn't make sense for them to do so. If anything, they have a great deal of incentive to keep cormorant numbers to a minimum, because by doing so, they would be able to keep sportfish populations up. By keeping sportfish populations up, they keep the numbers of license purchased up, and as a result, they make more money. I think the government is doing all they can to keep the reproduction of these birds under control.

Just my opinion.

-Wes

[JJ]

Kill them, or train them to catch fish for you :

[corny13]

I always wanted to get a cormorant chick and raise it and train it to fish!   They also use to do it in mexico where they put a ring around the neck as a chick that as it grew would not come off.  Dan Manix of Penn. use to train them to fish  his book "A Sporting Chance"  has lots of photos and storys of fishing with cormorants... one of my favorite books as a kid.

BTW the USFWS has shot 10,000 cormorants on Leech lake minnesota the past two years... hasnt seemed to make a bit of difference in their numbers...but the walleye population is getting better.

[lcrep2000]

Thats cool, Lets shoot them, maybe they are as good as a pike

[taxi1]

Both the Cormorant and the Blue Heron have been here alot longer than you or I have. Whether its our place or not to wipe them out, I don't know. Cormorants can be destructive to a landscape and to a body of water, and I think that they need to be controlled, but I feel that wiping them out is not the answer, as it could have a significant negative impact on the same enviornments that we are trying to protect. Not very long ago, The Double Crested Cormorant was almost completely wiped out by the use of DDT, and have made a remarkable comeback. I think its foolish and rather holier-than-thou to wipe them out.

I don't think the federal government is dragging its feet on control of the population of these birds, it jsut doesn't make sense for them to do so. If anything, they have a great deal of incentive to keep cormorant numbers to a minimum, because by doing so, they would be able to keep sportfish populations up. By keeping sportfish populations up, they keep the numbers of license purchased up, and as a result, they make more money. I think the government is doing all they can to keep the reproduction of these birds under control.

Just my opinion.

-Wes

Why do people keep putting words in my mouth? Did I say "wipe them out?" I don't think so. I won't tolerate them in my fish ponds but I didn't say I wanted to wipe out every last one of them.



Your entitled to your opinon but you are a little naive and inexperienced when it comes to the federal government. I have had dealings with them and I can tell you from my experience they certainly do "drag their feet" as they are getting paid regardless of what they do, so there is no urgency. In the November of 06 they stopped the interstate movement of live fish in response to VHS, and even though it nearly drove fish farmers out of business they were not in any hurry to come up with the next step. I think it took them several months to even make a statement. So yes they do drag their feet.

[Pasquatch]

Why do people keep putting words in my mouth? Did I say "wipe them out?" I don't think so. I won't tolerate them in my fish ponds but I didn't say I wanted to wipe out every last one of them.



Your entitled to your opinon but you are a little naive and inexperienced when it comes to the federal government. I have had dealings with them and I can tell you from my experience they certainly do "drag their feet" as they are getting paid regardless of what they do, so there is no urgency. In the November of 06 they stopped the interstate movement of live fish in response to VHS, and even though it nearly drove fish farmers out of business they were not in any hurry to come up with the next step. I think it took them several months to even make a statement. So yes they do drag their feet.

Well I was not referring to your statements, and I do agree that you are perfectly entitled to protect your fish farm from the threat of cormorants, as we all know that they could devastate a small group of shallow ponds like a fish farms'. I agree with your right to protect your farm, and I agree with the necessity for our fish to be protected. I wasn't really talking about your statements, so please don't feel that I was putting words in your mouth.

However, I feel it is a bit presumptuous on your part to say I am naive in the workings of the federal government; I know that bureaucracy is a slow and largely inefficient machine, but our government has actually done a good job at controlling this population boom. The cormorant boom is almost directly related the alewife introduction in the Great Lakes, which provided a tremendous amount of food for the birds. They reproduced in unheard of numbers, and moved on to other parts of the region. Our government has done the best they can to deal with these birds, no method is perfect. Putting it in the hands of the general public is not the right move in my opinion, but you guys are all entitled to yours, so to each his own.

Have a good day.

-Wes

[pikemaster789]

kill them!

[hamlin big daddy]

kill them!

That's what I'm talking about!!!! CNYPANFISHER suggested I buy 500 shotgun shells and start taking care of business. Actually bought a few more than that and would gladly share. Kill them all. 

[pikemaster789]

That's what I'm talking about!!!! CNYPANFISHER suggested I buy 500 shotgun shells and start taking care of business. Actually bought a few more than that and would gladly share. Kill them all. 

Id join you. I wonder if theyd be any good to eat. They pry taste good if they eat fish all of the time.

[hamlin big daddy]

Id join you. I wonder if theyd be any good to eat. They pry taste good if they eat fish all of the time.

Actually I have a receipt that suggests you place them on a cedar shingle and bake them at 500 degs. for 4 or 5 hours. After done remove from the oven and throw the bird out and eat the shingle. I've been told the dish is very good. Let me know what you think. Thanks. HBD

[Pasquatch]

I would imagine they taste horrible, just like mergansers.

[hamlin big daddy]

I would imagine they taste horrible, just like mergansers.

Ya your probably right. Although I must tell you I am starting to feel a little bad about all the negative post I have submitted on these creatures. I am sure they are good for something other than target practice. Please help me understand how they are helping our ecosystem. Because to tell you the truth I think it is a bunch of crap. There is nothing good about these rotten fish eating, acid pooping, vegetation killing birds. Kill them all. The next thing we may read about is how these dirty birds overpowered a family out enjoying a quiet summer afternoon on the water and carried away a child or family pet. Think about it. I still have shells.