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Author Topic: My rant  (Read 13381 times)

hali-man

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My rant
« on: Nov 06, 2005, 10:48 AM »
The IT is planning another tournament on Silver! I am going to fight it.
It's a small, temperamental lake in my backyard...

http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/fish/lakemaps/sillkmap.pdf

Please contact me if you would like to help.

hali-man

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Re: My rant
« Reply #1 on: Nov 06, 2005, 06:56 PM »
What is your complaint about the tournament.
I'm interested to hear your thoughts.

My interest is in the future of this small fishery! I was there last year on the day of the tournament and there were 300 professional ice-anglers raping and pillaging her.

Why choose such a small lake in my backyard? Granted, there are plenty of panfish, but there won't be if this continues every year.

I will do everything in my limited power to thwart this. The local economy does not benefit from this event. Silver is in Wyoming Co- the revenue goes to Livingston Co because they have a nicer hotel for the IT groupies to stay in.

Offline Ray4852

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Re: My rant
« Reply #2 on: Nov 06, 2005, 08:40 PM »
I don’t like tournaments either. I’m a conservationist. If you can get enough support I will help out. I agree a lake like silver is not a place to have big tournament every year. 

Offline Polar

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Re: My rant
« Reply #3 on: Nov 06, 2005, 09:25 PM »
You have mail. Silver is to small to support such a event.They will be surpised this year up on Sherman.
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an  well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, A fishing pole in one hand, beer in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming \"WOO HOO, what a ride!

hali-man

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Re: My rant
« Reply #4 on: Nov 07, 2005, 12:58 AM »
They will be surpised this year up on Sherman.

Funny you mention that, Polar. Shearman Rd has already been posted for the winter.
That's one access point no longer available to the general public because of the ignorance of some...

I don’t like tournaments either. I’m a conservationist. If you can get enough support I will help out. I agree a lake like silver is not a place to have big tournament every year. 

It's not that I'm completely against tournaments.
I just think that with all of the hot icefishing lakes we have in this state they could at least change venues from year to year. A lot of lakes not too far from here could handle the pressure much better. I'm thinkin' about one that starts with a C... ;D

Can't get into the link Hali.......firewall shuts it down.....

You need an Adobe reader to open it, Grump.
It's just a map showing how small the lake is.

oakorchardfishking

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Re: My rant
« Reply #5 on: Nov 07, 2005, 07:36 AM »
well, i wanted to reply to this last night but for some reason i had no links to reply or reply with quote even on iceshanty... but MFF was fine!
anyways... let me start by saying that i have already gone pretty far in trying to fight this.
i have spoke to anyone from the DEC to the local surrounding town officials to the mayor to the state congressman!
i have sent legal form letters to all as well! what i gathered from responses was... no one cares because there is money involved...lol

the reason i got into even trying to attempt to fight city hall so to speak... is because of this. last year the first decision for the "attack" was set for crappie and perch.  i thought perch ok, they mass produce like rabbits anyways... but crappie on silver lake? no way man!  yes, you could catch some nice crappie there, yes you can catch them through the ice... but the population is not that great and something like a 300 man derby would do great damage to a situation like that. this year, the crappie population has built up a bit, but it is still no "unlimited resource"!  well, i was very glad to see that someone got through to the "team" last year and they changed it from perch and crappie to perch and gills... and that is what they kept it at as well for this year!
but silver lake is a small and somewhat fragile resource that cannot handle major, continual pressure like that!
contact your local DEC and they can give you estimated population numbers!
ok, besides the way i (and many others as well) feel about the lake and fish condition... i want to mention the pressure and careless behavior of 300 "attackers"!
i cant say they are all bad, i cant point fingers or name names, but...
that lake was hit hard. lots of fish were taken. besides the fish that were being saught after for the tourney winners, people were also out there to "just fish" as well. besides perch and gills... ALOT of crappie and walleye were taken as well for personal consumption! that is huge pressure for such a small lake!
besides the fish take. they beat the lake up with sleds and wheelers. the lake was unfishable to the regular locals for about a week from all the engine noise and all the tremendous amount of hole drilling!  and... they were not the most clean or respectable people either!  lots of garbage was scattered throughout the parking lot, and on the ice and lots of others that chose to not use the parking lot, parked on local roads and trampled peoples property for lake access! ok, some poor soul had to go pick up all the trash which is bad enough... but now we as locals have had some of our access point taken away from us because its now posted up! how nice is that?
ok, and besides the fact that no money last year went to the local shop owners of perry and castile.(because they sent everyone to nearby mt. morris for nicer hotel accomodations, so all food,gas and sleeping money was spent there!)... last year they just kind of made the plans and slipped in to the lake unannounced! no preplanning with the local officials or anything was planned so that the community could get better involved as well!
this year, and from what i got out of all the exstensive research i have done, is...
its a hopeless battle to try and end it for this year. palms have already been greased so to speak, meaning that somehow the local officials got involved and the ice team tourney has been paid for by legal permits and such! unfortunatley, the business end still is at a loss though, as all business will be conducted in the mt. morris area. that is the area that the team has posted on the trap attack site for accomodations!
i tried to start a petition, cant do it because all the plans were already in the works and everything was done legal this year. i will definitely get one started right after the tourny this year!

my suggestion to the team would be... if you want NY as one of the "attack" locations, move it to a bigger and more supporting lake. the original first one was being planned for honeoye lake, but on one of a certain ice tem members visits here for seminars, some local offered to take so and so fishing on silver lake. he was hooked on it and decided that is where the tourney was going to be... by the way, the person that turned so and so on to the lake had his palms greased very well too... with alot of new icefishing gear from the sponsers icluding an aqua-view and ice rods..etc. etc...
conesus lake would support thas pressure as well or even seneca lake! there are alot more options out there besides a little "backyard lake" that we as locals so much enjoy but one day because of events like this we will not be able to enjoy anymore!

i think i covered everything... but its kind of hard to concentrate on all topics when im angry!
i want it to be known that i did alot to prevent this with a little help from a few people, but when i realized there wasnt much that could be done, i backed off! however, i will be at the "attack", not to fish or to start trouble and get thrown in jail... but i will be there to observe and hopefully to put a buzz in the right peoples ears that they should try moving on next year and that i will make every effort to put an end to it if it is considered again for next year!

enough said for now from me...
~oak~

Offline Ray4852

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Re: My rant
« Reply #6 on: Nov 07, 2005, 08:21 AM »
 We need a petition now for everyone to sign. Our real strength will come from the silver lake landowners association. I’m surprised the trap attack is willing to come back to this lake again. None of the Finger Lakes would be a good choice for this advent. Oneida lake is the best place

hali-man

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Re: My rant
« Reply #7 on: Nov 07, 2005, 09:55 AM »
Jebus, Oak! I knew you would chime in, but I thought this was my rant. LOL  :o
I heard you were trying to get a hold of me on Friday.

I think the first thing I'm going to do is get a letter published in the local paper. I have a little clout there.
We may not be able to stop it this year; but we could let them know that they're not welcome here in a civilized, legal way.
Or we could just get arrested.  ;)

Offline JerryofWNY

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Re: My rant
« Reply #8 on: Nov 07, 2005, 10:34 AM »
I'm probably going to get jumped on for this but please realize I'm trying to keep an open mind about this. I did not fish the tourney last year but did fish that day. We fished off the country club and had a productive day. Can't remember numbers, but I know we caught fish. My observations of the folks fishing the tournament were favorable. I didn't see anyone buzzing the lake on snow machines or quads. Those that were on the move did so at reasonable speeds and kept a distance from other huts. One guy stopped to chat and crept his snowmobile up to about 100 feet and then walked over to say hello. It wasn't Genz, but some other official of the tourney. I agree that the site of so many huts on the ice was concerning. I also fished the following weekend and caught fish (again I don't recall numbers). I really should start keeping a log. I don't think my catch was diminished after the tournament.
In checking their website for the results, I see that 957 fish were weighed in by 92 teams. The 92 place team weighed 2 fish. The limit of fish to be weighed was 15 per 2 man team. It was split between perch and gills with the numbers being, I believe, 8 perch and 7 gills. We are talking about approximately 480 fish of each species. Is that raping the resource? If 10 guys fish the lake on 10 different days and take only 5 perch (sometimes a difficult thing to do on Silver Lake) they have removed as many perch. Is that raping the resource? Is the effect on the resource any different if that number of fish is removed over a 10 week period or in one day? Heck, we could have a WNY get-together and take as many fish and call it fun. If I remember from last year's posts the Sherman Rd access was in real danger of being lost, not because of a tournament, but because local slobs (can't call them fishers) were abusing the privilege.
I'm not trying to stir things up here and as stated earlier am trying to keep an open mind. I want to make a decision here based on fact and not emotion. Whether we end up agreeing or disagreeing guys, I admire you for taking a position and then acting on it and not just hulking around bitc@^ing about it.
Hope to meet you guys out on Silver this year.
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Offline ol crawdad

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Re: My rant
« Reply #9 on: Nov 07, 2005, 01:59 PM »
but i will be there to observe and hopefully to put a buzz in the right peoples ears that they should try moving on next year and that i will make every effort to put an end to it if it is considered again for next year!

Don't forget your camera.  Pictures might help your cause.  Good luck. 

Hey Hali-man maybe if you complain about the trap attack on here they will mention your name on the PA system during this year's event like they mentioned mine at the Whitney Point Crappie Derby last year because I was ranting about how the crappie derby has effectively brought enough fishing pressure to the 1200 acre impoundment enough so, that it has wiped out the crappie fishing.  The crappie fishing still sucks there like it has for the last 10 years thanks to that particular event being forced on a lake that in no way could withstand thousands of people pounding the crappies year after year.  Of course the event is largely designed to serve the interests and fundraising efforts of a particular sportsman's association that sponsors it.  Now you have an event called a "Crappie Derby" where most of the participants haven't even caught a damn crappie in years.  :cookoo: Call it an ice party or whatever you want but for god's sake please drop the "Crappie" in derby because you folks who have organized that event for years have helped in large part to wipe out the very fish the event is designed around. When will people learn that 1200 acre lakes are NOT big enough to withstand constant fishing pressure especially with fish that are as easy to catch as crappies and the advent of tipdowns.  :'(  The only hope is reducing the crappie limit to maybe 5 fish instead of 25 which is still too liberal. 

slipbob, I fished WP once, and never will again (not on tourney day).  We caught one pickeral and one crappie in 10 hours of fishing, and all the locals complained that they had the same luck and blamed the tourney.  Same with the Chenango lake perch derby.  Too many people for a small lake...and now, not enough fish for fishermen.

Offline JerryofWNY

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Re: My rant
« Reply #10 on: Nov 07, 2005, 02:34 PM »
Just wondering, Slipbob, if they limit the number of participants and the catch at the Whitney tourney? Now if they were saying bring in your limit of fish for weigh in I'd be right up front screaming as much as anybody. I don't mean to hijack your thread Hali, but I wonder how the guys who fished the Silver Lake tourney last year feel it was run.
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hali-man

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Re: My rant
« Reply #11 on: Nov 07, 2005, 02:50 PM »
Don't worry about hijacking, that's why this is a forum!
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion...

I know three guys that fished it last year and only one is going to again.
Two are somewhat local and one isn't. Guess who is coming back...

I don't mean to hijack your thread Hali, but I wonder how the guys who fished the Silver Lake tourney last year feel it was run.

Offline cold_feet

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Re: My rant
« Reply #12 on: Nov 07, 2005, 02:58 PM »
Hali
Count me in. This small body of water can't handle all the pressure it gets from these tourneys. I remember last year when the Attack came here (and they named it right) They were all over that lake and some of them were the most rude people I have ever met. We got buzzed by clowns for weeks while they were there trying to figure out patterns. I remember 1 day I screamed at a kid and his old man about running up to within 20 ft of our hut getting off his sled drilling about 20 hole with his gas auger with only 10" of ice fishing for 5 min then leaving. All like nothing happend or they did nothing wrong. Yeah I know its not my private lake but at least have some common sense for others out there. I truly don't think we can stop it this year but there is nothing in the rules about us being there buzzing the lake with snowmobiles and ATVs. Maybe they might get the hint. Get the bail money together we are going to need it LOL.
Cold Feet

Offline JerryofWNY

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Re: My rant
« Reply #13 on: Nov 07, 2005, 08:50 PM »
No disrespect but doesn't that sound like some PETA clown parking on a rural road 200 yards from some guys tree stand blasting his car radio so as to ruin the hunt? I hope ethical outdoors people don't stoop to their tactics.
"Earth................. ...................... ... it's a dangerous place to live."      
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Offline seaweed01

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Re: My rant
« Reply #14 on: Nov 07, 2005, 10:04 PM »
Slipbob,

I couldn't agree with you more!  In my opnion the derby at WP has
really hurt the fishery. Ask the DEC why the fishing is so poor and
no one there will give you a straight answer.

Offline cold_feet

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Re: My rant
« Reply #15 on: Nov 07, 2005, 10:17 PM »
Your right Jerry I know it sounds rude and crude but why don't they fish there own home lakes. There are plenty of bigger lakes in NY to fish say Oneida, George, Tupper or even Erie on a good winter. Why pick on a lake 3 miles long. Maybe I am wrong for thinking this way about a lake that I fish mostly every week summer and winter. But the thing is I do give a hoot about conservation and to me these guys come here for a week or two and what has it done for the economy of Perry? I don't see any new hotels going up. Don't take me wrong here, I just love that lake and if it is in the cards for me I want to retire on that lake. All I am thinking about is all our kids, Grandchildren and great  Grandchildren. The future should look brighter for them than it does now. 2 wrongs don't make a right but the people running the towns only look for money and I don't think Perry or any other neighboring towns received Millions of revenue off these tourneys. If we could talk to someone who would listen I am all for it. I truly believe the only reason they are fishing this lake is because it is so tough to fish and thats it no other reason. Go to any other lake that gives up fish easily and every one looks like a pro. This is by no means a argument aimed at you Jerry I just needed to vent some frustration.
Cold Feet
PS No way am I a Peta member I do eat meat and fish and love it. :P

Offline jimski2

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Re: My rant
« Reply #16 on: Nov 08, 2005, 07:37 AM »
My best friend who fishes Silver Lake 5 days a week from his boat said the perch this year were the largest ever. It goes to show you that you can't take too many perch out of a Lake. The biomass remains the same, a lot of stunted  little ones or some big ones. The walleye survival goes up when the little perch aren't foraging on the walleye fry.
You can not take too many perch, unless you can not clean them, give them to your friends and neighbors to clean and cook. The more perch you take, the faster and bigger the rest  will grow. The walleyes and bass will survive from fry to fingerlings.

hali-man

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Re: My rant
« Reply #17 on: Nov 08, 2005, 07:41 AM »
My best friend who fishes Silver Lake 5 days a week from his boat said the perch this year were the largest ever. It goes to show you that you can't take too many perch out of a Lake.

Where is the logic in that statement?


Offline OTIS

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Re: My rant
« Reply #18 on: Nov 08, 2005, 07:59 AM »
If these guys are such great fishermen then why not challenge themselves and pick a different body of water every year?  In my opinion all tourneys should be banned, hard or soft water.
Follow the bubbles...

Offline Ray4852

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Re: My rant
« Reply #19 on: Nov 08, 2005, 11:23 AM »
 Jerry meant no harm about his peta statement. He was just trying to explain to the board that this is the way they do business out there. I live in Wyoming County; This County is spending a lot of money on advertisement on trying to draw some tourist money in here. In the last 10 yrs this county has lost a lot of jobs. The village of Perry is the hardest hit by it. Somebody in the local government is trying to bring in some outside money. If you look around ny state. The Finger Lakes region does an excellent job on drawing outside money in to that part of ny. They have tournaments on all there lakes and it does draw a lot of money to that region. You cant please everybody. My opinion, somebody in the county government brought this tournament here. I don’t think the trap attack cares less if we want them or not. If they feel they are not welcome they will pack up and leave. Lets get the petition started now. Present it to the Wyoming county government. The more we talk about it here the bigger the can of worms will get and silver lake will go to the ones that want the money. When the lake is fished out they will give it back to us and we can fish an empty lake. Lets think about the future of the lake. Not the short term. If we keep taking out the breeders we wont have a fishery left.

Offline IceReaver

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Re: My rant
« Reply #20 on: Nov 08, 2005, 12:18 PM »
After considerable reflection about last years tourney, I have to agree with Jerry.  Complex Simon and I fished the day before and everyone that we ran into were very courteous and friendly.  The activities on Shearman road that day were comparable to any normal ice fishing weekend regarding parking.  In fact, with the rules pertaining to pre-check in of equipment, I would assume most tourney participants left from the state boat launch.  I appreciate that the "Trap" changed their targeted species from Crappie to bluegill/sunfish as the lather repopulate more quickly.  The challenge of a known tough lake makes Silver a prime destination lake versus any other fingerlake in the area.

The majority of Wyoming county is farm/agriculture and will never sustain economic benefit from tourism.  What attractions would generate interest in the county...Letchworth and the "Trap" tournament.  Aside from the local restaurants [and state park officials, lets not forget they charged people to enter the launch] receiving increased business from ice fishermen coming directly off the ice, Perry should not expect economic benefits from the tourney.  At the very least, the sport of ice fishing get a shot in the arm from all the programs geared for visitors at the weigh-in station.

Finally, it might be viewed as hypocritical by some that locals are complaining about fish taken.  I know that I harvested my fair share of crappie and perch last winter, and by the pictures and messages posted on the Silver forum, so did most of the other locals.  If you add up the number of fish we kept and compare it to that of the tournament totals...I think it's fair to say we "damage" the lake more throughout the year then one tournament can in a single day.

I would DEFINITELY like to see a change in venue so Silver Lake does not become the next Whitney Point, but a few years of tourney pressure won't turn the lake into the Dead Sea.

hali-man

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Re: My rant
« Reply #21 on: Nov 08, 2005, 01:08 PM »
IR- That was a very thoughtful and intelligent response to this issue. I remember speaking to you (through IS) last year. As previously stated- I am not trying to influence anyone's opinion on this subject, only to state mine and do what I can.

...The majority of Wyoming county is farm/agriculture and will never sustain economic benefit from tourism.  What attractions would generate interest in the county...Letchworth and the "Trap" tournament.  Aside from the local restaurants [and state park officials, lets not forget they charged people to enter the launch] receiving increased business from ice fishermen coming directly off the ice, Perry should not expect economic benefits from the tourney... 

There is NO financial gain for our county or Perry, only the loss of our resources.
The state fees collected from the launch do not even come close to breaking even anually. I know this for a fact

Finally, it might be viewed as hypocritical by some that locals are complaining about fish taken.

Call me what you will- I am not a hypocrite. The amount of fish weighed does not reflect the impact on the fishery.

The more we talk about it here the bigger the can of worms will get and silver lake will go to the ones that want the money. When the lake is fished out they will give it back to us and we can fish an empty lake. Lets think about the future of the lake. Not the short term. If we keep taking out the breeders we wont have a fishery left.

Thank You!!!


Offline IceReaver

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Re: My rant
« Reply #22 on: Nov 08, 2005, 01:30 PM »
Please don't feel like I was directing an insult at the local fishermen (of which I am certainly one...I live on the lake and I DO take my share of fish for consumption).  I was only trying to approach the subject from an objective stand point.  I would be very supportive of a petition encouraging the rotation of WNY lakes for the Trap.  The media generated by such an event only enhances the the sport of ice fishing, so I would be disappointed if the tourney was moved out of state.

FYI, based upon information compiled by the Silver lake institute during 2003, their annual newsletter indicated that the Silver lake fishery was more healthy then most of the fingerlakes.  The DEC shock counts were higher per hour for most species of fish on Silver then a majority of the surrounding lakes.  I did not receive the 2004 newsletter, but in my opinion, conditions have not changed drastically enough over the past year.

Hali...I understand your reasoning and I apologize if you felt I was attempting to persuade you.  ;D

hali-man

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Re: My rant
« Reply #23 on: Nov 08, 2005, 02:04 PM »
Hali...I understand your reasoning and I apologize if you felt I was attempting to persuade you.  ;D

No need to apologize- It's all good. Hopefully we can meet on the ice this year.
Look for my letter in the Herald next week...

Offline synergyboy10

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Re: My rant
« Reply #24 on: Nov 08, 2005, 02:23 PM »
a lot of guys i fish with and myself personally fish that lake. that lake is just too small to have that big of a tourny on it. as far as i c it silver gets enough pressure on it as it. why cant they just move it to a bigger lake. the can handel the fishing pressure. like chautauqua.
sometime you just have to think like a fish.

Offline cold_feet

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Re: My rant
« Reply #25 on: Nov 08, 2005, 04:05 PM »
Well I apologize to any one here if I offended them. Jerry no disrespect to you the peta statement was in total jest. Here is the way I see this thing happening to Silver. Go look into the posts the last few years about Bear, or Chautauqua, or even the chain of lakes Cassadaga. Not a lot has been written about the Amish who fish those lakes until they get there fill of  Crappies.  With most of us we take some and leave some for another day. Or the Native Americans who can do as they please on there property. It all hurts a echo system. So everyone says its ok to have the Attack here again and they will and so they only take a few fish and they will. But how about the whole month long time they are fishing this lake. Do they take fish you bet they do. and not just 6 or 12 If they get into them don't think they don't take a limit if they can you bet cha they will. I don't want anyones kids having to grow up having to say they fish in a put and take lake. Will the attack clean out Silver highly doubtfull but it does add more pressure to that body of water to be able to self sustain itself. And to end this It is not the Attack itself that hurts Silver its the Publicity it receives from being in the paper, Magazines and on TV. Making this lake Famous will kill it like it did many others. Devils Lake is one example. Still has some big Perch in it but locals see it declining year by year. Thats the whole thing that bugs me.

hali-man

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Re: My rant
« Reply #26 on: Nov 08, 2005, 05:22 PM »
Making this lake Famous will kill it like it did many others.

Amen!  :angel
Anyone else have something to say?
That is the pointed sentence right there.

Offline synergyboy10

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Re: My rant
« Reply #27 on: Nov 08, 2005, 06:12 PM »
all i have to say is this is one of my good fishing biddies home lake and i will help u out with anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sometime you just have to think like a fish.

Offline archbishop

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Re: My rant
« Reply #28 on: Nov 08, 2005, 06:44 PM »
Chautauqua wont work, some years it doesn't freeze that good until real late, and to have that many people going out there it would more than likely turn into one big swimming pool :tipup: but a chautauqua sized lake would be better than a silver sized lake. either way ill be at the same place as i was last year for the attack, case lake :tipup:

Offline seaweed01

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Re: My rant
« Reply #29 on: Nov 08, 2005, 07:07 PM »
Cold feet,

I have to agree with you about all the good publicity that Silver receives,
the more it gets, the more fishing pressure it will get. I hate to "beat a drum", but beware, you people that fish Silver,
Whitney Point was publicied in all the magazines, papers, etc. For a few
years it was great, but after a few years the pressure took it toll. Stop it before
it's too late.
MY RANT, JUST HAD TO GET IT OFF MY CHEST.

 



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